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Comments
That would be a conspiracy. I don't believe it would take more than a handful out of the thousands of people involved to skew the data to show the globe warming or cooling. a few stations being inaccurate or poorly placed will change the overall reading. If you have 3 weather stations reporting, with 2 saying it is 100 degrees and the third reading 101, the average becomes 100.33 degrees. The AGW computer projections say we are warming by fractions of a degree. That means one inaccuracy can make a difference in the final analysis.
You are going to have to accept those pushing the AGW agenda skewed the data, then destroyed it. Being exonerated of committing a crime does not change the facts on what they did.
For example: I just did a calc in a spreadsheet. 100 stations reported 102, and 10000 stations reported 101.
Average comes to :
101.0098498147
When I changed ALL the stations back to 101, the average became, obviously, 101.00000000000
So, with a few "liars" thrown in, you have to move to the third decimal position to notice a difference.
Don't try to tell me this is happening. It's just ludicrous.
Now you know.
Thanks. :shades:
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There are just WAY FEWER people participating in "lying" toward an agenda than some people on this forum seem to think.
Before long this behavior becomes so ingrained, they believe their own lies or don't even realize they are lying and/or being deceptive. That is why snake oil salesmen are so convincing...they believe what they are saying.
So, in today's world it is not considered a conspiracy, it is just SOP. A sad comment indeed.
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But for it to apply to what we are talking about is impossible, due to the degree it would require so many people to be flat-out lying.
Bill Clinton and BO are masters of spin (lying). Do you remember, "I did not have sex with that woman" and "It depends on what "is" means?
Still don't believe in conspiracies? How about all those teachers and administrators in Atlanta that lied and worked the system for 10 years? That sure faded from the news fast !!
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That's not the same (at all) as the supposed NWS thing that Gary was accusing them of.
It only takes two people to conspire in any kind of scam or situation to hide information. It becomes a scandal when the conspirators are revealed. Think about the current Scandal with Murdoch and company. They were conspiring to keep the lid on the facts about how they got their news stories. Which may have included the emails that brought the whole AGW cult down. That was the whole deal with Climategate. A couple of scientists CONSPIRING to keep AGW alive by skewing data. Data which is now lost and not available for peer review.
The globe is not warming at any significant rate. Possibly cooling overall. The oceans are not going to rise 20 feet by 2100 as Al Gore claimed. Possibly 4 inches over the next 100 years.
Obama and the Democrat Congress conspired to raise our taxes with cap n Trade. The 2010 election put a roadblock in their plans. By not allowing both sides of an issue to be presented, that constitutes a conspiracy to cover up facts. That has happened at almost every GW conference. It is currently happening at the BBC.
UPROAR AS BBC MUZZLES CLIMATE CHANGE SCEPTICS
See, you and only a few deniers even think this happened. Nothing at all has been "brought down."
The science is fine. The warming happened. The CAUSE of the warming is the only remaining debate.
Heat waves across the USA Midwest do NOT mean "GLOBAL WARMING." It means a HEAT WAVE. High Pressure Ridge sitting on top of the locale.
Weather is not climate.
But the fact that:
Here are the top 10 hottest years on record:
1998 - 32.94 degrees Fahrenheit (0.52 degrees Celsius)
2005 - 32.86 degrees Fahrenheit (0.48 degrees Celsius)
2003 - 32.83 degrees Fahrenheit (0.46 degrees Celsius)
2002 - 32.83 degrees Fahrenheit (0.46 degrees Celsius)
2004 - 32.77 degrees Fahrenheit (0.43 degrees Celsius)
2006 - 32.76 degrees Fahrenheit (0.42 degrees Celsius)
2007 - 32.74 degrees Fahrenheit (0.41 degrees Celsius)
2001 - 32.72 degrees Fahrenheit (0.40 degrees Celsius)
1997 - 32.65 degrees Fahrenheit (0.36 degrees Celsius)
1995 - 32.5 degrees Fahrenheit (0.28 degrees Celsius)
These are global figures and are based on average temperatures.
Has not changed.
The decade of the 2000s was the hottest decade since modern records were being kept since the 1850s.
That's not debatable. It's just what happened.
WHY did it happen - that is the ONLY remaining debate.
If you believe that, it is laughable. They had no accurate way of keeping global temperatures in 1850. It was only random anecdotal information from cities across the globe. Vast areas of the earth were not monitored at all in 1850. Ice core samples tell a much different story about the history of the earths climate changes. This chart shows the average temperature was 57 degrees. You warmers need to get together on what is normal and what is average. 25 degrees difference is quite a lot.
Nobody knew they were being GREEN when they returned their milk, soda and beer bottles to be sterilized and refilled.
Nobody stuck their nose in the air and said how green they were when they drank water from a hose instead of a plastic bottle.
We did not think we were saving the planet when we walked the 3 blocks to the store instead of driving the car.
My parents washed my diapers in an old wringer washer and hung them on the line to dry. We did not have an automatic washing machine or a dryer to burn up electricity and gas.
I started my lawn mowing business with a push mower before I was 8 years old. No one had a gas or electric mower in my neighborhood.
We did not sit in front of a TV burning up electricity all day when I was a kid. We were outside playing. Or going to school. And speaking of school. When I was old enough to ride a bike at about 7, that was my means of getting to school. It sure was faster than walking as I did in kindergarten and 1st grade. I rode my bike to school until my senior year when I had saved enough to buy a car to drive.
We did not have energy burning treadmills and workout machines when I was young. We got plenty of exercise walking, running and riding our bikes. Not to mention pushing that heavy old lawnmower around ours and the neighbors lawns.
I can remember more than once getting a slap upside the head for walking out of a room and not turning out the lights. Of course we did not have AC to waste energy on. So running in the sprinkler was our way of cooling off on those 100 degree days before global warming was the political diversion it is now.
Anyone want to tell my how much more environmentally astute we are today.
Now, the only remaining debate? Cause.
You forgot to mention the unmitigated leaded gasoline, filthy diesel, and uncontrolled commercial pollution that was going on back then.
So, yes, we are more environmentally astute now.
So, yes, we are more environmentally astute now.
We are not more astute. Maybe Nixon should get the most credit for getting rid of water and air pollution. Not something my parents or yours could have done. On a personal level I consider this generation far more polluting overall than my parents. Recycling may save some resources. But the cost in energy is still tremendous. Why don't we reuse our glass bottles? My belief is over the top Federal regulations.
Why can't kids ride their bikes to school? Lack of protection by our police. Same goes for getting our exercise walking in many cities.
I think most of the green is in the eyes of those trying to fool themselves.
Who is this "WE" you speak of? You got a mouse in your pocket? :shades:
Compare myself to my son. Me, 1979, age 16, my son, 2011, age 15.
Me: My car and my parents cars (3 car family) were both gas guzzlers and polluters.
My Son: His family has one car, his Dad's AT-PZEV TCH.
Me: my house was completely coal powered and gas heated, and our air conditioner wouldn't have known a SEER factor from a water hose. My share of the electric and gas bills was probably $60 a month.
My son: Solar powered home (mostly) and a 12-SEER A/C system. His share of the the electric bill is probably about $6 a month.
Me: didn't drink bottled water, and rarely had an occasion to drink from a water hose.
My son: drinks filtered water from my home's whole-house water softener. When he has to use a plastic bottle, I recycle all his bottles and re-use them until they start leaking. I have a large collection of aluminum water bottles that he and his sister take to school.
Me: Drove myself to work in my gasoline burning car.
My son: Takes public transportation on a CNG City bus to school.
Me: Watched a 25" TV that had *zero* energy savings rating.
My son: TV and computer are both Energy-Star rated.
So, don't try to tell ME that we are less astute. Speak maybe for yourself.
P.S. If this were a basketball game, your point just got POSTERIZED, Bro.
You are getting behind the curve on climate change. Even some of the so called "main stream" are now hedging their bets and saying the earth may be cooling.
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But man's impact on whatever changes are occurring will have to be completely disproven before I stop urging people to change their ways.
And I'll still be attacking polluters and wasters and people who don't make an effort to recycle.
The pollution part bugs me as much as anything.
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WWWWWWEEEEELLLLLLL, not exactly.
I'm not confused, trust me. My therapist says I'm almost off the 10th medication !!!
There can't be GW influenced by man's consumption without pollution being a large part of that equation.
Actually the worst offender now is SOX put out by all the new coal generators around the World and scientists claim that has caused the cooling. China is still bringing one new coal plant on line EVERY WEEK. The have a ways to go to catch up to our energy use per capita. Then India will accelerate their coal generation. Before long it will be Global Cooling that we get taxed for.
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1. Excessively produced due to man's over-population
AND ALSO
2. Contributing to negative global climate changes.
So far, these two together have not been proven true, although the accusation has certainly been made.
China is completing the construction of new coal-fired power plants at a rate of 2-3 per week, a truly astonishing figure.
http://ecopolitology.org/2010/08/26/chinas-massive-coal-fired-power-plant-boom-v- isualized/
Hold on just a second. I said the other day that the pollution being caused by China was a direct result of our CONSUMPTION of Chinese goods. You disagreed and claimed it was all their problem not the consumers.
Not really in the way you are accusing me of disagreeing.
You railed about "if we'd stop wanting it, they'd stop building it."
I basically said you can't stop most of the consumption. You just gotta clean up the manufacturing processes.
It's like the drug war. We CAN'T stop it unless we stop the DEMAND.
Found a good site for tracking "record high temps" on a date.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/extremes/records/daily/maxt/2011/07/21?sts[]=US#records- - _look_up
I ran a search for 7-21-2011, which was a day which was REALLY hot across most of the country.
For July 21, 2011:
Out of a possible 5,822 records: 133 (Broken) + 73 (Tied) = 206 Total
So there is 206 records set or tied in one day.
I say you might owe the USA Today reporter an apology.... :shades:
And I say wrongo, Bucko. Read what was written on the 19th of July:
Much of the Midwest suffered Monday with heat and high humidity that won't loosen their grip for days. More than 1,000 high-temperature records have been broken this month, Weather Channel meteorologist Mark Ressler said.
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/extremes/2011-07-18-heat-wave-weather-recor- d-Midwest_n.htm?csp=34news
From your site, which is cool or in this case hot. I looked for every record in the USA from the 1st to the 18th. There was a total of 565 records set for the month to the date of the article above. That makes the Weather Channel meteorologist Ressler a big fat liar. And many of those records were not from the Midwest. They were as far away as Alaska and Hawaii. I expect more from so called scientists. It is all part of the AGW agenda. Our own John Coleman that started the Weather Channel will tell you that since he left, that organization it has sold out to the political LEFT. It is just a tool of the AGW Cult. USA Today is a worthless rag.
All this anything for the cause business sort of culminated this week end when that guy in Norway murdered almost 100 people just to prove a point...then the coward meekly surrendered so he would not get hurt.
Norway has a max. sentence of 21 years so he will only be about 50 when he gets out of jail.
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July1:
Out of a possible 5,985 records: 24 (Broken) + 36 (Tied) = 60 Total
July 2:
Out of a possible 5,649 records: 47 (Broken) + 31 (Tied) = 78 Total
July 3:
Out of a possible 5,811 records: 36 (Broken) + 45 (Tied) = 81 Total
July 4:
Out of a possible 5,861 records: 29 (Broken) + 31 (Tied) = 60 Total
July 5:
Out of a possible 5,952 records: 24 (Broken) + 20 (Tied) = 44 Total
July 6:
Out of a possible 5,925 records: 17 (Broken) + 26 (Tied) = 43 Total
July 7:
Out of a possible 5,940 records: 12 (Broken) + 21 (Tied) = 33 Total
July 8:
Out of a possible 5,837 records: 27 (Broken) + 22 (Tied) = 49 Total
July 9:
Out of a possible 5,798 records: 36 (Broken) + 26 (Tied) = 62 Total
July 10:
Out of a possible 5,871 records: 60 (Broken) + 41 (Tied) = 101 Total
July 11:
Out of a possible 5,931 records: 51 (Broken) + 28 (Tied) = 79 Total
July 12:
Out of a possible 5,909 records: 62 (Broken) + 46 (Tied) = 108 Total
July 13:
Out of a possible 5,891 records: 30 (Broken) + 25 (Tied) = 55 Total
July 14:
Out of a possible 5,868 records: 21 (Broken) + 20 (Tied) = 41 Total
July 15:
Out of a possible 5,775 records: 13 (Broken) + 23 (Tied) = 36 Total
July 16:
Out of a possible 5,732 records: 28 (Broken) + 20 (Tied) = 48 Total
July 17:
Out of a possible 5,818 records: 18 (Broken) + 28 (Tied) = 46 Total
July 18:
Out of a possible 5,889 records: 30 (Broken) + 41 (Tied) = 71 Total
Total: 1095 records set.
Whether they use the term "tied" or "broken" is really just semantics here.
The point was: "This is a serious heat wave, breaking a lot of records."
That's a FACT. FACT.
I'm not thinking the USA Today has a pan in the GW "agenda" fire.
Tied is NOT broken. They did not report accurately. And your willingness to defend their lies does not add to your credibility.
PS
USA Today is a Liberal new source. The report came from the Weather Channel a AGW media source.
Breaking or Tying a record high means the exact same thing - it was HOT that day, as HOT AS IT HAS EVER BEEN ON THAT DATE IN THAT LOCATION.
Liberal or not, they are not going to be LYING about something that can be easily fact-checked by the average Joe such as you or me.
That was not an OPINION piece.
Setting and tying means the same thing in this instance. Trust me on that. I've spent 15.5 years in the Valley. The meaning of setting high temps is better understood by someone who lives it year in and year out than it is by others.
I could care less about the political slant of USA Today. But when a reporter says thousands were broken, and I go check and find out that YES, thousands of record highs WERE INDEED set, then I don't see the issue.
But across the rest of the country, plain ol’ folk call ‘em lies. Bald-faced (even bold-faced) lies. Those folks have a tried-and-true way of determining a lie: If you know what you’re saying is patently false, then it’s a lie. Simple.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jul/24/curl-is-obama-a-pathological-lia- r/
Set or broken means the same thing, which is this:
ON THIS DATE, THIS TOWN HAS NOT EXPERIENCED A HOTTER DAY THAN TODAY.
End of THAT story.
Nice try there buddy. Yes set and broken mean the same thing. TIED does not mean either.
ON THIS DATE, THIS TOWN HAS NOT EXPERIENCED A HOTTER DAY THAN TODAY.
You do not set/break a record by tying a record.
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I was wrong about grouping all diesel cars in the same "dirty"group.
But this is not incorrect, when it comes to setting/tying/breaking a record high temperature on a specific date:
ON THIS DATE, THIS TOWN HAS NOT EXPERIENCED A HOTTER DAY THAN TODAY.
Is that an incorrect, or is it a correct statement?
I'm thinking it's correct.
Same thing on a COLD day:
ON THIS DATE, THIS TOWN HAS NOT EXPERIENCED A COLDER DAY THAN TODAY.
http://www.desmogblog.com/forget-tornadoes-lets-talk-unendingly-about-heat-waves- -and-global-warming
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/heat-wave-2011-stu- nning-national-statistics/2011/07/24/gIQAJ1FcYI_blog.html
Nationally, 1,966 daily high maximum temperature records have been broken or tied so far this month (through July 23). Sixty-six of those records were all-time maximum temperature records.More impressive, however, are the figures for highest minimum temperature records. Because of the extremely high humidity levels during this heat wave, a whopping 4,376 record highest minimum temperature records were broken or tied through July 23. Of those minimum temperature records, 158 were all-time records
tied the record and set the record
Eight of the ten hits on the first page are weather related.
On of the non-weather pages has a headline that reads this:
"Super Bowl records set or tied"
Giving them the same weight.
Keep digging ! :P
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