Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Right. So do we ever wonder why the BIGGEST limo fleet is in Wash DC? I guess global warming is suspended there!?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    OK, since y'all insist on continuing the guvmint discussion, I'll make two points:

    1. No other better system has been developed.

    2. Sometimes the wheels of change turn slowly in Washington.

    The "limo fleet" is a holdover from the "bad old days" and should be hybridized where possible.

    I'm sure the people in charge KNOW this.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    And you gotta love the unmitigated coal fired power plant supplying the capital( DC)

    Despite Health Risks, D.C. Power Plant Kept Open
    by Elizabeth Shogren
    link title

    But then this has been there at least since 1974 (34 years ago- when I was stationed there- 6 years less than one biblical GENERATION ago ;) .)

    So do you really believe that if Senator Obama is elected and with a democratically controlled House and Senate, he (and or they) is/are going to make that plant suffer or shutter it? ..... I see you like to believe in fairy tales.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    1. No other better system has been developed.

    So why would we want to change it?

    2. Sometimes the wheels of change turn slowly in Washington. The "limo fleet" is a holdover from the "bad old days" and should be hybridized where possible.

    Hybrid Suburbans maybe. Got to buy Domestics. You are not going to get Pelosi in a Prius. She insisted on a 747 for her jaunts back to CA. Now there is a real GW dilemma. How much CO2 does she emit flying solo in a 747? Plus crew of course.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    If this were not a car forum and were a political forum, you'd get a great education-based tongue lashing from me right about now.

    So as long as I agree with you and/or our "leaders" on GW and political philosophy, I can enjoy freedom? ;) Very interesting -autocratic in concept? ;):)

    I think this will finally be the year where the government closes the loopholes on control of my life, and writes a law whether the paper goes over or under. :(

    Even if your candidate loses.

    I know he's going to lose, but I won't vote for either of the paid-for (by lobbyists) main candidates. Nader gets my protest vote.
  • avalon02whavalon02wh Member Posts: 785
    "The difference is I have the right to waste my money on research. The Federal Government does not have that right. "

    Actually the government does have the right to spend money. We have given elected officials the power to spend our money. The idea that you, I, or any single individual would have veto power over that spending.... that would make for an unworkable system. In a democracy the majority rule. We elect the officials, they get to spend the money on whatever they want. If we do not like it we can express our displeasure at the voting booth. :shades:

    Better hurry the polls will be closing soon.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In a democracy the majority rule

    We are a Republic not a Democracy. You can win the popular vote and lose the election. My point is the Constitution has been distorted to give Congress and the President powers to waste not intended by the founding fathers.

    I vote by mail. Went in a couple weeks ago. Won't make much difference in this state top heavy with Liberals all aching to cash in on the GW scam.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,250
    "...There are models which come to full power almost instantly..."

    Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

    "....CFLs contain less only 1% of mercury found in the average home thermometer..."

    Thanks to the scare mongers on the environmental front that would be enough to send people running in panic. A local school was recently closed for days because a janitor broke a thermometer in a closet The media whipped up such a frenzy that parents were demanding blood tests on kids who never left the school bus. :confuse:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    larsb wrote :
    "OK, since y'all insist on continuing the guvmint discussion, I'll make two points:

    1. No other better system has been developed.

    2. Sometimes the wheels of change turn slowly in Washington.

    The "limo fleet" is a holdover from the "bad old days" and should be hybridized where possible.

    I'm sure the people in charge KNOW this. "
    As an actual deep southerner, geographically at least, I insist you stop using colloquialisms that denigrate the southern citizen. We don't say Ya'll all the time. Ok occaisionally. Nor do we ever say guvmint. What is this an old Pogo cartoon ? We're not hiding from the revenooers. But bless Walt Kelly, such wisdom. And bless your heart lars, meant in the finest old southern tradition.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    At least he spells it right. :D

    I don't know much about carbon credits but I can tell the difference between a purple hull and a black-eyed pea. Maybe cooking down the sugar cane and sorghum will increase the ethanol stocks a goodly amount.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    All of us kids used to play with mercury. We would break thermometers to get at it. No one minded back then. Also there were no seat belts, no bicycle helmets, etc. We were tough.....and stupid!! :D

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    didn't we rub mercury on a dime to make it shine? Hope none penetrated to my brain brain brain..... :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    duke23 says, "As an actual deep southerner, geographically at least, I insist you stop using colloquialisms that denigrate the southern citizen."

    I'm a born and raised TEXAN. Y'all is my middle name.

    I never even heard the term "you guys" until I got into the Marines at age 18 and started mingling with Yankees.

    And "guvmint" is my own personal take on that word. As far as I know, I invented the word.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't know how old you are but I think Snuffy Smith and the moonshiners might of beat you to "guvmint," at least from the 1920's.

    I'd make some comment about Texas being about as southern as South Florida but that would just get me started on real BBQ vs grilled beef ribs and y'all don't want to go there. Where I grew up, Arkansas was a border state. Texas is a wonderful state and all, but we considered it Western back in the Deep South.

    I think GW is one reason it's so hard to find authentic pulled pork shoulder these days. They make BBQ at a joint in Venice California that gets wonderful reviews, but it has the flavor of stainless steel smokeless cookers to me. The local guy here must inject liquid smoke into his shoulders with a hypodermic.

    Some air pollution gets the juices flowing. :shades:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed Maryland is considered in "the South". Great BBQ and all, there!! To state the obvious, some parts of DEEP southern Florida are considered northern Havana. ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I thought some restaurant in Kansas won the BBQ contest?

    I think that Hickory smoke needs to be taken off the list of GHG polluters. It smells much better than most of the cities in the USA. Right about now I would be for eliminating all the major cities in the USA. Start with all the ones over a million people and see how much better the air is.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    To me, "y'all" is more associated with "hick" than it is "South" per se.

    Even people not from the South use y'all, as long as they live in Hicksville.

    ;)
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Texas is a wonderful state and all, but we considered it Western back in the Deep South.

    Ah give him a break! I think I remember him saying he's got a General Lee Rebel flag on that Civic Hybrid's hood. :):) He's proud to be a Southern Texan Arizonian, fighting alongside the best system (in Washington) to prevent the GW - from driving y'all Southerners up north, to cool down with us Yankees. :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed I do not understand what the fascination is with global cooling !!! A couple of winters of - MINUS 50 degrees F and GREATER/LESSER depending on your perspective (wind chill and otherwise) ought to cure em!! Think of all the Penquins who DIE because of it !!!! "Homeless" seals seem to do well in the SF bay area. Perhaps Glide Memorial can do a feed the seals outreach.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Emperor Penguins eat to keep warm in those nasty temp's. And the women are swimming, according to a Tragically Hip song penned by none other than their illustrious leader, Gordon Downie, from half an ocean away. These Emperor's are toughskins, really strong creatures. Think of that, the men penguins stay behind while the women Emperor's go looking for food. The men keep the eggs warm and then the women return with Chow for the babies. What a wonderful story, and it is the best song off of their 1998 release called 'Phantom Power.' But they must have a wonderful layer of flubber under the bird skin to insulate them for those temperatures.

    I went to Respiratory Therapy college training in mid-Missouri(Rolla), and the guy teacher always said "You guys." He must be from a long line off descendants that were pro-North if that indeed is a Yankee thing to say. :) Missouri, as most of you probably already know, was a dividing line state in the Civil War. Jesse James sided with the South, because, for one thing, the North would just pull up and rob the farmers in Missouri and Kansas of their crops and load them on trains! Yikes! Kind of grabby-butt, don't y'all think? Missouri was a wonderful state to live in, I loved my time there, except for the chance of tornadoes. My wife and I also procured a Pomeranian that is tougher than your average Pom. Got him from a breeder living near tiny Freeburg, MO. That dog can go toe-to-toe with our Chow-Chow, who is now 6 month old, when playfighting. He holds his own pretty well, although the Chow-Chow, if she was taught to be Michael-Vickish, could really hurt him if she really wanted to. I think. That Missouri Pom is tough as nails. The Chow-Chow also has the thick double coat and the tail that lays neatly down on their backs.

    But I digress. 15 minutes and you could save $300 off your car insurance by switching to Geico. I'm actually considering getting a quote from Geico. My car insurance provider is doing the slow-inch up in price every year thing without giving me anything in return. I'm thinkin' Geico, my car-crazy friends. Anyone like them in here? Never used them for car insurance.

    Ahhh...word games and such. Wonder what's the latest GW thing? Is Obama on that particular bandwagon like Al Gore? 1/4 penny for your'alls thoughts. :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Is Obama on that particular bandwagon like Al Gore?

    "For even as we celebrate tonight, we know the challenges that tomorrow will bring are the greatest of our lifetime -- two wars, a planet in peril, the worst financial crisis in a century."

    That's from his speech last night in Chicago. The planet in peril stuff has to be code for GW doesn't it?

    Al Gore stumped for Obama a few days ago in Florida so the bandwagon hasn't lost many wheels.

    Michael Crichton died yesterday so the GW crowd lost a worthy adversary. In case you missed it, Aliens Cause Global Warming
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I don't recall Obama saying much during the campaign about GW. Maybe I missed it, though.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Climate change is in his issues statement, but it remains to be seen how much of a treehugger he's going to be. (The headline on my second link is "Obama Says Climate Change Is Real, Will Hire Gore").

    But yeah, I don't remember him saying much about GW during the campaign either. The greens were going to vote for him anyway, so maybe he felt he could slide on that one.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Put 1 million Plug-In Hybrid cars -- cars that can get up to 150 miles per gallon -- on the road by 2015, cars that we will work to make sure are built here in America.

    Not only that, his mission statement mentions "working on" creating a $7,000 rebate check from the Fed's on "Advanced energy" automobiles! If Chevy offers something like a $2,000 manufacturer's rebate(after say 6 months of putting the Volt on sale)and Obama's plan includes a $7,000 tax rebate if one purchases a 2010 Chevrolet Volt, that's $9,000 off of a Chevy MSRP of $30,000!

    I might just like this guy's ideas and yes, I am seriously considering a Volt, but only with these rebates and a strong love potion to give to my wife, who hates my propensity to trade in for new cars. :cry:

    But honey, it's my favorite hobby, along with chatting on Edmunds. :shades:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    The bailout legislation already includes $7,500 tax credits for plug-in hybrids, and that's already been signed into law.

    The "real" MSRP is more likely to be close to $40,000, so the Volt will cost more than the average car even with the "proposed" rebates.

    But hey, anyone who can afford a $600+ car payment and then spend virtually pennies to fuel it, more "electric power" to them. :):):)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The folks that backed the next President to be mightily have HUGE problems with cars that get anything remotely near better mpg. If the less than .005 (less than half of one percent) since the Honda Insight/hybrids have come out is any indicator, do the math at a current 10.5 M in yearly new car sales with the hybrid % to see how many generations it will take to "pump up" the mpg !"

    The diesel threads have of course covered the tremendously overwhelming obstacles high mileage diesel cars have encountered.

    You will know they are really serious about upping the MPG rate when they give the "125,000 Hummer IRS sec 179 write offs" to business types who are eligible who buy hybrids.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    nope, I read an article from Bob Lutz and he mentioned that the MSRP for Volt will be "in the neighborhood of $30,000."

    Now, if this car is going to retail for $40,000, that will drive me out of their marketing range. Not gonna pop $40,000 for a Volt, even with the $7,500 Guv-Mint rebate and $2,000 Chev rebate(somewhere, oh somewhere, I read of a $2,000 Chev rebate upon release, as an incentive to sell new Volt's.)

    I mean Chevy, come on, my current favorite Mitsubishi is coming out with an all-electric in 2010 here, too. And I would love to play you two against each other to drive down the price of one of these babies, eh? A big north-o-the border EH on that one.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    even with the $7,500 Guv-Mint rebate and $2,000 Chev rebate

    Since the guvmint is going to pumping at least $25B into the Big 3, plus maybe another $10B for a GM-Chrysler merger, any rebate that GM gives is possible because they are using taxpayer money.

    So that's $9,500 the guvmint is going to give to help some # of thousands of people, out of a driving population of 200 million.

    Instead of giving $9,500 to people who can afford a $30K-$40K car, maybe they ought to see if there are any hungry people or children in this country, or someone who needs health care and can't afford it! :mad: :sick:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Sorry back at you, amigo, but that has been "superseded" by newer infomation:

    2011 Volt to carry a MSRP of around $40,000.

    That $30K figger was early in the game. After they started crunching more numbers, someone went "Uh-Oh" and they upped the estimate.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    kernick says, "Instead of giving $9,500 to people who can afford a $30K-$40K car, maybe they ought to see if there are any hungry people or children in this country, or someone who needs health care and can't afford it! "

    I know who SOMEBODY voted for !!!!! ;) :shades:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    But according to unnamed sources cited by Reuters, LG Chem will be the General's pick.

    It's been estimated the 400-lb battery pack (largely considered the most important part of the Volt) will tack on an additional $10,000 to the car's price.


    Did I not read that the tax incentive was for domestic built plug-in hybrid? If the battery the one most expensive component is built in Korea. I would think that would make the car less than 85% domestic which I believe is the point needed. Toyota is not happy they were excluded with their. Plug-in Hybrid.

    Toyota's objection to the bill does not give high hopes to the upcoming plug-in Prius being eligable for the larger credit. Toyota insists the bill should equally target all plug-in electric vehicle buyers, allowing consumers, not the government, to determine market winners.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Obama did promise to bring back jobs to the UAW. That got him the votes in Michigan. He also promised to pay the rent and gas bills for others. So they better get the printing presses rolling. Cause the money gonna be flowing.

    I would imagine CA with all its babbling about GHG emissions would give incentives. I think they are broke though.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I wonder if it will include EVs also. It sounds like the vehicle has to be a plug-in. An EV with a 16 kWh battery should get the maximum $7500..May be an EV in my future yet. I could use a little runabout with 16KWH battery. Does not mention type of batteries. wonder if a lead acid or NiMH EV will get the bucks?

    WASHINGTON -- Congressional leaders have added $1 billion in tax breaks for plug-in electric vehicles to a $700 billion Wall Street bailout bill.

    The provision would grant all-electric vehicles or plug-in models with at least a four-kilowatt battery pack a $4,168 credit. A vehicle like the extended range Chevrolet Volt with a 16-kwh battery would qualify for the maximum $7,500 credit for vehicles under 10,000 pounds.


    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081002/AUTO01/810020388/1148- /&source=nletter-business
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Tesla looks to be in there too.

    As if anyone who can drop $100K on a Tesla needs a $7500 bailout credit.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,250
    "...I never even heard the term "you guys" until I got into the Marines at age 18 and started mingling with Yankees..."

    You must've not mingled enough. We Yankees say "youse guys" as in the sentence--" Youse guys don't know what yer talkin 'bout'. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    BBC SHUNNED ME FOR DENYING CLIMATE CHANGE

    FOR YEARS David Bellamy was one of the best known faces on TV.

    A respected botanist and the author of 35 books, he had presented around 400 programmes over the years and was appreciated by audiences for his boundless enthusiasm.

    Yet for more than 10 years he has been out of the limelight, shunned by bosses at the BBC where he made his name, as well as fellow scientists and environmentalists.

    His crime? Bellamy says he doesn’t believe in man-made global warming.

    Here he reveals why – and the price he has paid for not toeing the orthodox line on climate change.

    "When I first stuck my head above the parapet to say I didn’t believe what we were being told about global warming I had no idea what the consequences would be.

    I am a scientist and I have to ­follow the directions of science but when I see that the truth is being covered up I have to voice my ­opinions.

    According to official data, in every year since 1998 world temperatures have been getting colder, and in 2002 Arctic ice actually increased. Why, then, do we not hear about that?

    The sad fact is that since I said I didn’t believe human beings caused global warming I’ve not been allowed to make a TV programme.

    My absence has been noticed, because wherever I go I meet people who say: “I grew up with you on the television, where are you now?”

    It was in 1996 that I criticised wind farms while appearing on Blue Peter and I also had an article published in which I described global warming as poppycock.

    I’ve seen evidence, which I believe, that says there has not been a rise in global temperature since 1998, despite the increase in carbon dioxide being pumped into the atmosphere. This makes me think the global warmers are telling lies – carbon dioxide is not the driver.

    The idiot fringe have accused me of being like a Holocaust denier, which is ludicrous. Climate change is all about cycles, it’s a natural thing and has always happened. When the Romans lived in Britain they were growing very good red grapes and making wine on the borders of Scotland. It was evidently a lot warmer.

    If you were sitting next to me 10,000 years ago we’d be under ice. So thank God for global warming for ending that ice age; we wouldn’t be here otherwise.

    People such as former American Vice-President Al Gore say that millions of us will die because of global warming – which I think is a pretty stupid thing to say if you’ve got no proof.


    http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/69623
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Interesting guy; Wiki quotes him as saying he was banned from the BBC for running against (and losing to) John Major.

    In '89 he said "The profligate demands of humankind are causing far reaching changes to the atmosphere of planet Earth."

    Must be why he ran against Major - got the flip-flop down pat. :shades:

    Gotta love a guy who goes to jail fighting dam construction though.
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    Steve wrote :
    "I'd make some comment about Texas being about as southern as South Florida but that would just get me started on real BBQ vs grilled beef ribs and y'all don't want to go there. Where I grew up, Arkansas was a border state. Texas is a wonderful state and all, but we considered it Western back in the Deep South. "
    Cracking me up once again sir, but at least there was no mention of vinegar on the meat, a violation of all that can be held sacred. Low & slow our mantra. California knows BBQ as does Somalia knows sushi. Yea, Snuffy and damn them revenooers.
    Ok , Lars, so is that chicken fried big enough for you and yer dawg ? Environmentally friendly no but pass the cream gravy willya. God Bless Lipitor. Granted BBQ pits and smokers not beneficial toward global warming but cold dead fingers and all. Anyway it's global cooling. Ice age and Jurassic park.Get with the program.

    K, you make me chortle mucho, Thanks.
    Favorite WK, Pogo quote : "we have met the enemy and he is us " That and Friday the 13th come on Tuesday this month.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I like vinegar pretty good; sometimes a sweet vinegar slaw on the sandwich hits the spot. Wet sauce, dry rubs, it's (often) all good. The best part is researching all the various claims.

    When I cooked Clarence, I mostly used the vinegar technique and no one complained. (My big cleaver still has the dings on it from hammering on it as I butterflied the pig).

    I'm pretty sure Maryland isn't going to become renown for BBQ with air quality regulations like this.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The "hated" auto industry is caving with a lot of help from the environmentalists of same party that will (ultimately) BAIL them out !!!! The big "THREE" has (long since) shrunk to the BIG 2.5, and is on the verge of shrinking further to the small 2.0 version. The (TV pundits CNBC) projection on the job loss if it should shrink to the big 2 is a loss of 2,500,000 jobs and INXS of - minus 125 B dollars. The MY sales projection is 10 M to 10.5M vs 16 to 16.5 M in years past.

    link title
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    We live near a golf course and I play a lot of golf. So much that my wife says I should get a job there so I could have a company cart. :)

    They are all plug in electrics so maybe I could also get the tax credit....Got to work all the angles these days.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I could justify doing my part with a $7500 tax credit on one of these little EVs

    image

    Got to talk to my tax man before the end of the year.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Arnold S------------- (the token republican, but really reluctant demo) was given the job (by the demo dominated legislature) to go begging for 45 BILLION DOLLARS !!! Overspending is getting its just reward !? :lemon: For sure our more narrow topic (hated autos) is exponentially dwarfed.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Does anybody swag, the (demo) votes are there to delay the (35 mpg) 2012 fuel economy standards?

    (aka let the 27 mpg standards, defacto 22 mpgcontinue/ REMAIN!?)
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    larsb wrote :
    "Yes, America IS Grand. Thanks Much For Noticing."
    And your point is ? Your thesis is busted since it never had any economic validity,Your points are extreme and explain a viewpoint that tested is irrational. As compassionate person I forgive you, yet you and nippon will not lie low. Car manufactuers are sufferering greatly. Pseudo greenism kudos because you drive a fuel efficient vehicle is out of touch, get with the program. What gives? Said in my most kindly Ronald McDonald happy meal voice. As per Tiny Tim , God Bless us one and all. The green and the red shall suffer equally in their marginal propensity to consume but you two aren't posturing are you ? Inquiring minds and all that.
    Suffering dealerships struggle to sell inventory.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    link title

    The above is old news but another indicator, why they will probably keep the old standards.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Et Tu Duke23, what is YOUR point? That was a ramble and a vicious attack which I think is not warranted.

    Methinks only people who do something wrong are owed forgiveness, and I can't see that I've done anything wrong.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think what he was saying is your denunciation of consumerism is more harmful than any kind of Global Warming will be.
This discussion has been closed.