By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
On another note, it's interesting to me that of all the car companies, I think MB does the most to differentiate its interiors on its top line S class from the rest. Even a 70K E550 does not come close in fit, finish and materials to the S Class. Good for the S Class buyers and not so good for the rest, I guess. At Lexus, they do a very good job of offering top quality interiors in their more basic cars (ES etc.). If I could get an E Class with the build and interior of the S Class, I would consider it, but I don't think it's in the same league.
question please : Am i to understand that you have trade your 2007 LS460L ?
thanks, mitchell rowe
It continues to disappoint me that unsatisfactory comments seem unwelcome on this thread.
Some have said I want to "stick it to Lexus;" not the case at all. Why else would I replace the 460 with another Lexus model? Also, subsequent to my post, Lexus refunded the cost of park-o-matic, which neither I nor the dealer could demonstrate repeatedly.
A comment on the recent post wherein an individual elected to pass on the decision of replacing his 430 with a 460. His needs apparently do not include the L model, and I totally agree with his conclusions. Before buying the 460 I drove a 460 SWB, a LWB w/o air suspension, and a LWB with the pneumatic springs. For me it was air springs which made the difference because I thought that feature was an improvement over the 430. Alas, other problems explained earlier caused me to dump it.
My replacement vehicle has active suspension (w/o air suspension) and is a treat to drive! The active suspension, together with radar cruise control, affords a very secure feeling. The GS 450 is a much smaller package which has eliminated the intimidation posed by a 460. Regardless what others may think, the 460 is a larger car than the 430, and this difference seems to be noticeable to many senior drivers. If one does not need extra leg room offered in the stretched model, all other passenger attributes are smaller than the 430, but wrapped in a larger platform. Perhaps the longer wheel base would help on extended cruising trips, but those are not my needs these days.
So do I - it's been my biggest gripe about the car....wheel is too big for easy maneuvering.
you might remember , i too sold off my LS460 (swb ) with
2200 miles , as in MY OPINION , the brakes were inferior.
different however from you , i sold off my entire stable of lexi , except for a 1993 es , that was my mom's , and a 2007 es that is my 28 year old son's .
my local dealer and i are at odds , and not only are they NOT ELITE OF LEXUS , they are deaf .
i am driving a 2007 INFINITI FX 35 with RADAR CRUISE CONTROL , LANE CROSS WARNING , SIRIUS SATELITE RADIO WITH A 300 WATT BOSE , WOOD DASH AND DOOR ACCENTS ( FRONT + BACK ) ,HID HEADLIGHTS WITH FOG'S , AND A NAV SYSTEM THAT " actually works everytime . ( AND NO WIND NOISE ! ).
additionally , i bought my wife a G35X , and she loves it . she say's it's a car , and not a phoney lexus .
so my friend , Mr. Tricky , you received some negative comments . mitchell rowe
I was concerned about the "spirited, assertive roar of the new power plant" so I test drove a 460L with touring package last Friday. Sad to say, I could definitely hear it, and that turned me off. I want quiet and smooth, so I too am staying with the lovely 430.
My conclusion: the 460 is for those who want more power and handling, not for those who want quiet and smooth.
Does this signal the end of the "isolation chamber" the LS has been famous for all these years? Is the driver experience beginning to dawn at Toyota/Lexus? Because Mitchellrowe is now driving two very "driver's experience" focused vehicles from Nissan/Infiniti..... Maybe no wind noise, but lots of engine and road noise there.
WTFIGO????
Lots of noise??? What noise?? If you step hard on the gas you briefly (and I mean briefly) hear the engine kick in and then you are back to dead silence in a car noticably quieter than the LS430. There is no road noise whatsoever. Everything you do in this car is easier than the 430, from the steering to the power boost and acceleration to phenomenal torque to the dashboard controls of anything and everything. Plus the ride is far better. What's really something is they did all this and greatly improved handling at the same time and my mileage is up to just over 20mpg from about 18.5mpg on the LS430. Maybe I'm nuts but I find the steering has more power in it than any LS car I ever drove. It's almost too easy. I have a feeling that the wind noise on a handful of early cars has long been corrected and again I know of no one who has any wind noise issues and everyone I know thinks this car is much improved over the 430.
Select "Menu", then touch "Volume" on the screen. Then touch the upper left corner of the screen, then touch the lower left corner of the screen, again touch the upper left corner of the screen, then touch the bottom left corner of the screen until a list of service items appears on the screen that includes "Overide" Touch and hold "Overide" until it beeps and the word "overide" turns black. Then touch "Back" in the upper right corner. You may have to hold your finger on "Overide" for as long as 10 seconds before it turns black. This can be done while the car is standing still or moving. You can now have access to all Nav system functions while the car is moving. A similar but slightly different procedure works on my 03 LS 430 also but the car must not be moving while you go through the procedure. Now back to my original question. Does anyone know if this works on the LS 460? I intend to buy one in the coming year but will not do so if I can't overide the Nav system. FYI, my wife does all this for me while I drive. Don't recommend doing it yourself if your the driver--rather distracting.
I tend to agree w/comments on #690. Comparing the 2 models can be very useful, particularly for those wishing to change from an LS 430. However, one must be careful to separate experiences offered by cheer leaders from those of the boo-birds.
I have owned both, but dumped the 460L in favor of a GS450. There were many things I disliked about the 460 which can be viewed on my other offerings, but in retrospect one factor seldom mentioned is driver age. I am approaching 80 years old and love to drive well performing, reliable vehicles. When I compared the 460SWB after a short test to my '06 430 I was not interested...they were not that different. Yes, there are several refinements on the 460 that are nice, but overall the fit and finish, performance, and other attributes impressed me as comparable, not revolutionary.
The 460L w/air suspension was a different matter altogether; I really liked the car and ordered one with the Touring Package (air suspension, larger brakes, VGRS, etc.) One of my biggest realizations after driving it a while was its' exterior size; it became increasingly intimidating. We have a poorly lighted tunnel that I must use and it became really frightening, not being sure where the sides of the car are. Adding to that reliability problems I experienced during the first weeks, I felt it best to replace it with something a bit smaller and let the next owner argue with the dealer about nagging electrical malfunctions and the parking assist feature which never did work correctly. To Lexus' credit they did refund the cost of that option after neither myself or the dealer could get it to park itself repeatedly without scraping high curbs.
Hope this helps.
Now when it comes to reality, I would pay attention to what ljflx has to say about comparing the LS430 to the new LS460. It is unfortunate that some folks had a problem with wind noise (SWB model). However, this is now a moot point since Lexus realized the problem and has since corrected it for the more recently built models. They are also fixing the problem for the earlier built 2007 models. As ljflx has stated, the new 460's (LWB and SWB) are more powerful, quieter, overall more comfortable, have a much better navigation system with traffic feature, have a much better Mark Levinson audio system, and from what I have heard, have much better traction in snow and ice surfaces in spite of the fact that it is still RWD.
BTW, my wife and I just got back from an Alaskan cruise. This is why I have not posted anything for a while. Besides, I don't spend all hours of the day and night reading the message boards. However, I had to get this stuff about the LS430 being "as good or better vehicle than the LS460 or LS460L" off my chest. This is just not true, period.
On the 460 add to your points that the handling is much more agile, luxury is more pronounced and the gas mileage is improved and the car is a head turner. I drove the base 460 and 460L w/o air. Both of those are also big step-ups from the LS430. No one is knocking the LS430, heck I had 3 of them. Great car. But Lexus has taken the 460 to another level. There's really nothing more I can say. No one needs to justify staying with the LS430. It's a heck of a car.
We had a great time except for the wicked storm for June this past Friday night through mid day Saturday. Even though, it was a huge cruise ship (almost 1000 feet long), the 50-80 mph winds off the coast of British Columbia (on the way back) caused all kinds of noise and swaying. Needless to say, a lot of people including yours truly got motion sickness. It hit me Saturday morning right after I got out of the shower. A couple hours later, I was OK after taking dramamine. This experience aside, I highly recommend this cruise. Glacier Bay as well as all the rest of the sites in the cruise are absolutely spectacular.
I totally agree with you (When don't I?) about the fact that the LS430 is a great car. I have also been driving a 2004 LS430. It is by far the best car I have ever owned. But as you state, the LS460 is in another league. I am really looking forward to owning the 2008 LS460L configured so that I have the large trunk.
The LS430 excels in that stodgy way - it doesn't offend you much (maybe the looks a tad, lol). But power, performance and handling are inferior to the 460.
Size, speed, feature content and looks (unfortunately) are all in the 460 side.
And if you can stuff a 380HP motor under the hood of the sedan and still get ~20mpg, you have achieved a remarkable feat of engineering. The "measly" 275HP motor in my '99 LS400 barely gets better than 18MPG. What would I not give to increase my HP by 100, add 3 extra cogs to the tranny, and still get better gas mileage??? While driving in a pure luxury... I am jealous of Len and all of you with an LS460. Wanna spare a guy a coin or two?
1. Wind/engine noise is worse for many including me.
2. MUCH worse visibility due to the new style. Harder to see front, back and sides of the car.
3. The 460 size is slightly longer, wider and shorter and harder to maneuver and park. All negatives in the city.
4. The seats seem less wide due to a useless wider center council.
5. The phone system is less flexible per the Lexus phone consultant.
6. The turning radius is shorter which is also a big negative in city traffic. On the highway they both ride about the same with air suspension.
7. I don't like junk extras in a car like self parking and a silly heated steering wheel and more.
8. Trunk size is insulting for a car the size of the 460.
9. Insecurity regarding reliability for the new 460.
10. Nearly 6 years of proven total reliability of the 430.
A fully loaded LS 430 has all the extras of the 460 except a bit more power (which is useless in the city) and a little better mileage, a much better radio, and IMHO a more modern sleeky appearance, plus a few other techy goodies. Oh and I can't forget the laughable great benefit of a self opening and closing trunk.
Both great cars but for me the negatives after driving both for several hundred miles is clear. LS 430 wins hands down and to add insult to injury is 2/3rds to 1/2 the cost for a near new and loaded 430 with a full warrantee.
To those that chose the 460 I honestly wish them good luck with your choice of a fine car.
The steering is the most power boosted ever in my experience of any car I ever drove.
The engine noise is non-existant.
I had no clue the engine was even on
I don't usually have a reason to comment here, but when I read your post, I got the distinct impression that the driver is much too disconnected from the car. I don't know if you meant that, or if you actually like that kind of experience,
but it sounds like you do.
Did I misunderstand you?
TagMan
That's very interesting that you would ask about that... when I test drove the LS460L, naturally there were some things I liked and some things I did not like. I thought the car was too disconnected from the driver, as I just asked LJ about.
But the transmission definately had delays, particularly when passing. I put my foot down hard, but then it noticeably paused before finally selecting the right gear. That pause/delay was definately too long, and I remember mentioning it in my review of the car.
Except for that, however, the tranny was delightful, and was as silky and smooth as any automatic transmission I've ever encountered.
TagMan
What the LS460L does do very well though, is to deliver a very relaxed, comfortable, quiet, and peaceful ride to all aboard, and there is definately something to be said for that, whether you are coming home from a hard day's work, or going out to dinner and a show with friends... a pampered and sumptuous ride in an LS460L can sometimes be just what the doctor ordered.
TagMan
Didn't say it was a great handler. I was saying it's a noticably better handler than the LS430. I love driving both the LS and the G35. They are opposite cars. When I want supreme luxury and comfort I want what the LS offers. The fact that it can handle well (not great) is a nice bonus. When I want sport I want what cars like the G35 and 3 series offers. I almost liken it to work and relaxtion.
My opinion about the LS seems to differ from some of those here. IMO - the car introduced some brief power noise from the engine on hard acceleration but at the same time it moved far up market in luxury and comfort. It's very clear to me that Lexus intent with this car was to tune up the lux factor by a 5:1 ratio vs the sport factor. My personal feeling is MB went the same way with the S550 and I did indeed love my experiences in that car as well.
My misunderstanding.
When I want supreme luxury and comfort I want what the LS offers.
Yes, I totally agree. I'll repeat what I previously posted...
"What the LS460L does do very well though, is to deliver a very relaxed, comfortable, quiet, and peaceful ride to all aboard, and there is definately something to be said for that, whether you are coming home from a hard day's work, or going out to dinner and a show with friends... a pampered and sumptuous ride in an LS460L can sometimes be just what the doctor ordered".
TagMan
Dan,
I don't want to make an excuse for Lexus here, but it is fair to consider that part of that is due to the complex sophistication of the newest LS460. A more complex user interface tends to create increased numbers of "problem reports" of malfunction that are sometimes due to human error and not genuine malfunction... why?... because the whole user interface itself becomes overly complicated for a greater number of drivers... and sometimes those drivers are actually making the mistakes, not the car itself. Additionally, the more technology is employed, the more likely it is for small technical bugs to occur. Add that to the increased incidents of user error and you've got yourself a lowered quality/reliability score.
All I can say to Lexus fans is "Welcome to the club!"
TagMan
That feedback then comes back to lower the reliability / quality scores for Lexus. Do they deserve to be lower for such types of "issues"?... In my opinion the human error simply isn't Lexus' fault, but if the technology is genuinely failing, that's a different story. Besides, all the cars, cometitors alike, are becoming increasingly subjected to the same type of user interface issues.
The solution, IMO, is to move forward with the advanced technology, but make sure the user interface is kept as simple and basic as possible.
Attempts such a Mercedes' COMAND system and BMW's iDrive have not proven to simplify the technology enough. Mercedes' COMAND system has a reasonable learning curve, unlike the BMW iDrive, which is a nightmare.
As you said, the LS's manuals are not always helpful even after reading them and rereading them.
Anyway, thanks for illustrating my point with your real-life case examples.
TagMan
True luxury should not require you to return to the dealer or to study a cars encylopedia size book of instructions to get a car to do what you want.
Dealing with complexity is an inefficient and unnecessary waste of time, attention and mental energy. To compare the LS to Microsoft products is a great insult to the designers of this (or any) car.
Life itself is complex enough and I doubt many of us desire high complexity from a vehicle to move us from one point to another efficiently, safely, and in comfort.
Future luxury cars (and other products) will be judged based not only on what they can do but also what the will do simply and easily. Unfortunately the new LS as well as other top level luxury cars fail miserably in this regard.
The fact is, you don't often see 80 year olds buying new $75,000 vehicles and attempting to learn new complicated procedures, etc. I only hope that I can retain your curiosity and jest for life when I am your age. With your attitude I am sure you will make it to 100.
I have a lot of respect for your generation and I enjoy reading your opinions here. I also agree with you that simple is usually better.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Lexus deserves to get "Pinged" on this account. They are the ones responsible to get the individual trained. Clients want to understand eveything there vehicle does since they are the ones dropping $70,000+ on these vehicles.
IMHO
Thanks......
Now I have no problem or concern with tackling new technology in any setting. It helps keep the mind young. I like the Touring model, because I'm a spirited driver. That doesn't suit every one's taste.
Forget about the age factor, that shouldn't determine an individual's approach on any subject. I'm over 81. I can tell you that it is a great misconception propagated (that has unfortunately convinced many) that everyone over 70 (or 80,etc.)must has a foot in the grave.
Your life isn't over until you are convinced it's over. Bring on the new technology with Lexus at the forefront.
My opinion about the 460 is not negative at all. I think it is a beautiful and terrific luxury car and most who buy one love it. That is a better test than my few hours driving the 460. Comfort trumps handling most of the time. I drive my Porsche when I want to zoom around the twisties.
The 460 has several features I lust after including the brake hold and the best radio I've ever heard (amazing!). But still and all, as I've blogged earlier, there are some issues with the 460 that for now keep me happier with the 430 which when fully loaded is just as complex as my over stuffed Harvard educated brain can hold. My degrees should have been in engineering rather than business.
Now let's see -- how do I set the doors so they all lock and unlock at the same time. I forget. Out comes the monster instructions books which take up 1/2 my glove compartment.
Thanks, and by the way, I think my Lexus salesman did a great job "trying" to teach me all the little things that make the cars so wonderful. I just can't remember them all. Maybe my brain is 80!
Dan
There are certain things about the 430 that I like better. I have never favored the more steeply raked windshields on some of the newer cars. I think there is much better visibility with a more upright stance, etc. and the larger side windows.
Again, please accept my apologies. That is what I get for posting before my coffee!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I don't disagree, but in general, the easier it is for the user, the more comnplex it just beneath the surface. In addition, allowing slightly more complex systems allows the user more choices in utilizing the system. Engineering these systems for the least common denominator is possible, but it would leave many of the technologically inclined feeling that they do not have enough control or choices. I have nothing against either Lexus or Microsoft. In general, I push whatever they give me to the limit, and that has always resulted in a learning curve, and even some restarts along the way. I don't begrudge them this aspect, but accept it for what it is. Even getting used to the new feel of this vehicle compared to the 430 is part of the learning process, particularly the parking and maneuvering at low speeds with reduced / altered visibility. No big deal, but it does take practice and experience, just as it did when I would move from one airplace to another. Stakes are not as high, but the principle is the same.
Late in my career I had the opportunity to study the science of reliability and was privileged to enjoy the tutelage of Dr. W. Edwards Deming, who is credited as being THE most important influence in establishing a passion for quality in Japanese products. His work prompted an NBC white paper in the 1980's entitled "If Japan Can, Why Can't We?" It was a story how Dr. Demings' work was being adopted by GM and used the Pontiac Fiero as its' primary focus...so much that experiment.
My purpose for mentioning this was his constant reminding for the importance of a commitment by MANAGEMENT to provide tools necessary for constant improvement...not just adopt a slogan. When recalling my experience with random 460 electrical problems as they were discussed with dealer and Lexus personnel, a typical response was "the car is within specification," seemingly without interest in trying to discover the cause and improve the design. Has anybody noted the latest J.D. Power survey indicating Lexus is no longer the top rated luxury vehicle and how Korean products are filling the niche in the mid and low price range?
As an aside, a recent poster indicated he found all windows in his new 460 open, together with the sunroof when he entered the car the next morning. There is a command in all Lexi I have experienced since 2002 that by holding down the "unlock" button on the key fob for ~5 seconds the car will engage this very useful feature...try it after the car has been sitting in the sunshine for a while...nice!