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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L News, Views and Opinions

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Comments

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I just posted some interesting news on the LS600HL forum.
  • lovmylex2lovmylex2 Member Posts: 2
    MSRP: $79,557

    sell price $72,500 + tax and tag, no dealer fee

    i'm happy with the deal... i figure that is a reasonable amount for the options i liked on the touring package vs. regular navi 460.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Congradulations, and I personally think you got a very good deal....Hpowders is going to help me with my next purchase, but I don`t think he will do as well as that---maybe not even for himself Again `Good Luck` Tony
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Len, I hope your property is not affected by the horrible fire across southern NJ. I did not know this until I just watched it on NBC News.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Charlie,

    Have been away on business and just got in today. That fire is well south of me over the pine barrens. Thanks for the concern.

    I saw your post on the LS460L experience. I drove it about 50 miles last weekend and absolutely love it. I'll post more after this weekend after I drive it some more (assuming I can pry it away from my wife) but in a nutshell this car is fabulous and well beyond the capabilities, comfort and driving experience of the LS430 and the lux factor is raised a lot higher. Keep in mind I'm comparing an air suspension LWB car to a base suspenion SWB car though. BTW - I haven't checked width but the car seems wider inside.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    This great news. I thought you lived further north but I was not positive.

    Have you seen my post from yesterday about the Nieman Marcus LS600HL?
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Hello Len:

    After months of hiatus away from Edmunds, I stopped here to read up on the new LS and found yours just arrived last week. Well... Let me start by congratulating you on this excellent purchase. The pictures are awesome and the background even more impeccable. That is a very beautiful home, Len. I just cannot get it out of my head. Well, I am not sure which is more exciting: the new car or that stunning house. I know the back is not revealed, but knowing what I know, I can now see how well it matches the front - simply amazing !

    Yes, feverhart got it dang right - you are a rich man, by all measures.

    Congrats and may the car serve you well, as previous ones have. Take care and keep up the good work around here.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    WELCOME back oac. You have been missed. I always enjoy your thoughts and comments on cars.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    OAC - thanks. That color is the smoky granite mica and the high mid day sun makes it look darker than it really is. I'll shoot a pix under cloud cover or at dusk so you can better see the color. Here's a pix that actually shows the color a lot better. I'll e-mail you a few house pix.

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=4ka11mc

    Charlie - I'm hearing here that prices on the LS600HL are over list in some cases.
  • dan67dan67 Member Posts: 51
    Just took an extended drive in a new LS 460L with Air suspension, Lux, ML, and rear seat upgrade. My own LS 430 has served me well for several years so it was my comparison.

    I really liked the looks, extra power, the smooth ride, the ML Stereo, many cool extras like the brake hold, the parking guidance, dynamic radar cruise control, and many other nice things my 430 doesn't have.

    What I didn't like, in comparison to the 430, is the front seat doesn't go back as far or are as wide and comfortable to me (due I suspect to the large center counsel), the rear head room is less, and as we all know the trunk at 12cf is smallish, and brakes seem strong but not as easy to use as in my 430.

    My biggest comparative complaint is visibility. The new design just isn't as "open" to see what is going on with traffic around you - especially in back and sides. It might be the short LS 460 might have better visibility.

    As I said this is just my opinion and I respect others who feel differently. I certainly could live with the new LS 460L but for now I'll stick with my 430.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Hi Cyclone4: Thanks for that vote of confidence :) I miss the forum sometimes but I just don't have as much free time to indulge around here any more. But when I do come, I always enjoy catching up on every post, and reading about all the good stuff happening.

    I see that you are all keeping the LS forum alive. That's great.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    I looked at a "cheap, low end" LS460 today stickering at $67245. Dealer was talkin' $2500 off that. Is that good, bad, indifferent in today's market?
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    I know this is SLIGHTLY tangential to the LS460 topic, but I am wondering who can really afford these and who is reaching. Or put another way, do people earning a mere $150,000 per year feel comfortable buying a $70,000 car (half a year's income) or are more buyers earning $250,000 and up? I guess net worth also comes into play.

    Or put YET ANOTHER WAY...are LS460 drivers "posers" or the "real thing"?

    I am considering trading my 2004 LS430 (paid for) for the 2007 LS460. That being said, 70 grand just seems like too much money for ANY car.

    Just thinking out loud...
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    "I am considering trading my 2004 LS430 (paid for) for the 2007 LS460."

    I was considering the same thing, but of late have drifted toward holding on to my 04 LS430. It's the Ultra Lux, and as far as I can tell the 460L's advantages, aside from more power and more speeds, are push button start/stop, automatic electronic parking brake, and a better navigation screen. Offset that with longer turning radius, no cassette tape player, more engine noise, and about 20% higher price -- is it worth it? It sure doesn't seem like the major step-up that the 04 was from the 01.

    As for as the posers vs. real thing question, my payment is less than $1000/month on a 60 month 3.74% loan (with my credit union). I had been driving a Mercedes E320 and got disgusted with the unreliability and noisiness of the thing. So I researched Consumer Union Auto Buying Guide and looked for the highest rating in reliability and quietness. It turned out to be the LS400 (this was in 2000). And then I found out that they were coming out with a major upgrade to the LS430 so I decided to try that, and haven't been sorry since.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I was considering the same thing, but of late have drifted toward holding on to my 04 LS430. It's the Ultra Lux, and as far as I can tell the 460L's advantages, aside from more power and more speeds, are push button start/stop, automatic electronic parking brake, and a better navigation screen. Offset that with longer turning radius, no cassette tape player, more engine noise, and about 20% higher price -- is it worth it? It sure doesn't seem like the major step-up that the 04 was from the 01.

    Hold on there rennybosch. Let's get the facts straight. BTW, I also drive a 2004 LS430. The turning radius for the 2004 LS430 is exactly 37.4 feet. The turning radius for the LS460 is 35.4 feet (so it's even tighter). The turning radius for the LS460L with 18" wheels (standard) is 36.5 feet. It is 37.5 feet with 19" wheels. So where are you reading that the new model has a longer turning radius? As for "more engine" noise, this is intentionally engineered so that a person can hear the smooth roar ("quiet roar") of the engine when accelerating hard to give a more sporty feel. The car itself is as quiet or even more quiet than the 2004. I personally do not care (most people in today's world do not) that it does not have a cassette player. The new Lexus audio system (Mark Levinson 19 speakers, ability to record 2000 songs, play dvd's, etc.) is "miles" ahead of the LS430. There are quite a few other advantages of the new model. The pre-collision system and radar cruise is more advanced. It also has an auto break feature when stopped at a red light, heated steering wheel, XM radio with a real time traffic capability, better gas mileage than the LS430, etc., etc.

    I had ordered the LS600HL but if you read my posts, I cancelled due to what I consider poor gas mileage for a hybrid. I am instead going to order (as soon as the specs come out) a 2008 LS460L. I consider it to still be a "bargain" compared to the competition.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    Hey thanks for setting me straight on the turning radius. I guess I just assumed that from the longer wheelbase. The engine roar is another matter though. I think they should have two versions of the car: one for young people with all the engine roar they like, and one for "seniors" who would just as soon not hear the engine. That should also include the 18 or 19 inch wheels for the younger version to get all the handling and road feel they like, and the other with nice fat 16 inch wheels for maximum riding comfort and minimum road noise. Can you guess -- I am in the senior category.

    Anyway thanks for the feedback and I am again undecided which way to go.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    No "problemo". I am also not far from being a "senior", but I absolutely love new technology and innovations in cars. I am what one would call a technological "freak". One of my mottos is: "You only live once. Enjoy it"!
  • dan67dan67 Member Posts: 51
    Correction: Turning radius for the LS 430 and the LS 460 are within a few inches of each other. The 430 is reported to be at 35.8" and not the 37.4" you report. LS 460L is 36.8" to 37.5" depending on wheels. BTW...all these are excellent and shouldn't stop anyone from buying.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well, when Lincoln invented the Luxury full size SUV segment (Range Rover, notwithstanding) in the US, only upper income folks thought they could afford them - but some leasing companies thought they would hold their residuals at much higher levels than they turned out to do - so leasing one was very inexpensive, putting the vehicles into middle-class families very early.

    The secondary market for Navigators and Escalades developed quickly, with used models going to young people who sometimes were unlicensed pharmicists.

    Today, it's hard to tell who is a poser and who is not. Leasing has made it possible to own a much more expensive car than you could normally afford.

    Nonetheless, I think anybody who wants to drive an LS and can afford to do so, is not much of a poser. They're pretty serious about life, careers and driving in comfort. What I have met, are usually pretty genuine folks.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I got the 37.4 foot (BTW I know you mean feet not inches. Symbol for feet is ' and not ") turning radius directly from Edmunds 2004 LS430 page. Look it up for yourself. I would link it for you but unfortunately I don't remember the copy and paste little trick. When I highlight it and then go to copy the highlighting goes away and I'm back to square one. I can have the link for you in the morning. My wife knows the trick but she is sleeping. What am I doing up so late? That darn Greek coffee did it to me :)
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    Re: Posers?? [nvbanker]

    I think you mean "poseur".
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Here is the link on the specs of the 2004 LS430 that I promised late last night. Maybe the 37.4 foot turning radius is wrong but that is what it says on the specs. The bottom line however, the new Lexus still has a very small turning radius compared with the competition. I find a tight turning radius quite useful.

    http://www.edmunds.com/used/2004/lexus/ls430/100322033/specs.html
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Yeah, my bad. French isn't my second language. Thank you. ;)
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Rennybosch - There really is no comparison between the two cars. The LS460 (I have the L so I'm comparing that) is a far superior car than the 430. It's way more powerful, faster off the draw, the hesitation is gone, it's quieter, the ML is takem to a new level, the nav is a much higher resolution and even easier to use and far better than before, the interior is more luxurious and the whole feel of the car is different. The steering is more responsive and the ride is tighter, handling is significantly improved yet it's a smoother quieter ride than ever. They hit the nail on the head with this car. I notice zero difference in turning radius, If it exists it is very minor and hard to measure so it's inconsequential as far as I'm concerned. Yes - you can hear the engine acceleration but that adds a sport feel to supreme luxury and the that growl is very muffled compared to a sports car. It's almost perfect. You hear it slightly and it seems to add to the feel of power in the car.

    The lack of a casette is definitely there but you are clearly the exception to the rule on that one. The hard disc drive s a great feature as is the ability to play DVD video when you are stationary. DVD audio is so great that you have a gard time going back to a Cd let alone a casette if that ability was there. They did screw up on the front passenger seat as it's the only seat in the car without a power control if you take the lux option. I had the 430 in 2001 and 2004. Neither car is the same league as this car - not in LWB form and probably not in SWB either based on the limited driving I did on the SWB car.
  • feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    It is true that Edmunds lists The turning circle for the 2004 LS430 as 37.4 feet which is longer than the actual specs that Lexus lists for the LS 430. Lexus lists it as 35.8 feet in their specs. I even noted Edmunds error when I first bought my 2004 LS. This makes it a foot shorter than the LS 460. I can tell you for sure from experience that my LS 460L Touring has a noticble longer turning circle than my LS 430.

    Maybe it depends on who you read, but Lexus is the official source.

    The turning circle still beats the competition.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    Thanks for the encouragement, Len. How is the driver seat comfort on the 460 compared to the 430? I remember you saying there seemed to be two different sources for the seat, one comfortable and the other less so. Also is the heating and cooling any more effective than it is in the 430? Those two driver seat shortcomings are about the only things I can think of that I wish were better in my 430.

    Renny
  • dssxxxxdssxxxx Member Posts: 69
    The heating of the seats, is like night and day. The 460 is 10 times better.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    That's great news. Is that also true for the cooling?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    That's great news. Is that also true for the cooling?

    Yeah!! Is it? Because my Lincoln Navigator did both much better than my Lexus does.....
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Had to wait 2 hours for my wife today and sat back in the car and used the nav screen as a DVD player. Popped in a U2 DVD video I had and then watched a Seinfeld DVD of "The Hamptons" and "The Oppposite", two all-time classics from that great series. When my wife called on the cell and interrupted the last 5-10 minutes of the latter I was sorry to leave and we just listened to the ending as we started for home. I coud have waited another hour or more. Someone parked next to me and wished they had the time to watch the DVD's and was astounded to see that you could now do this. Video quality is excellent but of course you have to be stationary. Sound quality of course is astounding. Gotta try Lord of the Rings or something with great sound next.

    I used the comfort setting on the car as we drove home. I did notice a difference from the sport setting. Car still handled very well, much improved over the 430, but the ride was the plushest I've ever experienced. Comfort setting also raises the air suspension higher. I'd recommend the air suspension to anyone that can get their hands on one or has the time to custom order.

    I'm also having a harder and harder time going back to CD's after a DVD audio disc. The sound is amazing.

    I love this car.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'm a shade under 6' and I find the seat very comfortable and also find the footrest is good (I'm a size 12 there). My problem with most cars is leg support. I always buy deep couches and chairs because I like the seats to extend all the way to my legs. The LS has had the seat extender feature for quite sometime now so it has long solved that problem for me. Leave me air space betweeen the seat and my legs and that bothers me (and it's a problem on most cars including the GX and Infiniti G35 I have). I used to play wideout in high school and early college and your legs never recover from football injuries so this is the most important seat feature for me. My back never has a problem finding comfort particularly with lumbar support.

    One thing that Lexus could have done better is the bluetooth. In my G you just hit the off hook button on the steering wheel and voice command your way thru. On the LS you do the same thing BUT you have to hit the info button and touch select telephone first. There really was no reason for this as far as I'm concerned. I will doublecheck this in the next few days to see if that middle step can be bypassed.

    The climate system is excellent on this car and is more accurate on temp settings. You don't find yourself ever adjusting temp once you set it. Of course put your spouse in the car and that will change but it has nothing to do with the quality of the system. I've yet to try the climate controlled seats or the heated steering wheel. The leather is an improvement over the 430 but that leather never wore on me anyway.

    BTW - My first fill up occurred at 395 miles. I averaged just under 21mpg and this was more country/city driving than highway. I actually got better mileage in the V8 LS than in the G35 where I'm between 18-19 mpg. I have no clue how C&D only got 13-14 mpg in this car. Further proof that they had a heavyweighted pre-prod car and you can toss their stats in the you know where.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Len, you are increasing my excitement about the LS460L. It will be interesting to see what they tweak for the 2008 model.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I have an LS 430 and my lease is due to expire in about 4 months so I am beginning the process of selecting my next ride.
    The car has been trouble free, as expected, and has performed very well as a luxury car. I love the ML stereo and the quiet ride. Two areas that could bring me back to the Euros are the seats and the steering feel. I feel that both of these are better in BMW and MB and are very important factors for me.
    The Lexus seats are a bit too flat and I find that on long trips they are not up to the MB, BMW standards and that steering is a bit numb and gives a detached feel. Have either of these been changed on the new LS 460?
    Thank you for any input.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Please read the the posts from the past 10-12 days above describing the experience that ljflx has had with his brand new LS460L.
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    Walking around the city today, I got to inspect a new lexus that was parked....My impression is it looks a little like the bmw, without the stylish rear end...A nice overall look...The interiot imo looked much better than the pictures I have seen...By putting the crease up high the window ledge is quite beefy giving the car a plusher look...I like the way the screen is integrated, and not as accentuated....Overall a nice looking car....Tony
  • woppenhewoppenhe Member Posts: 61
    Has anyone been through trying to decide which is the better deal here. Has anyone taken this method of getting into a new Lexus. What was your thinking over buying outright.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    It's a complex decision to make - personally, I've never done it despite the discount. IF you take the amount of the single payment, and price the cost of the money, or its future value, it likely will equal out pretty close to the discount you are getting. Toyota Financial is better at cash management that most consumers, and know that the cash payment to them will earn them far more than the discount you get.
  • ideleidele Member Posts: 200
    With a lease the two most important data are the residual value expressed as a percentage of the purchase price and the implicit interest rate on the balance, The residual percentage varies with the annual mileage allowance. It's usually conservative but the residual percentage is occasionally used to move cars, especially high end vehicles so it should always be checked. The interest rate is also manipulated but is basically subject to money market conditions. I leased (single payment) my previous Lexus because a very attractive residual percentage was offered. My current Lexus was purchased because the residual percentage quoted for it was too low. There are other factors to consider. Leasing leaves you with more money and if you can earn higher returns than the interest rate you're paying that's an important consideration. Also there are tax considerations. As you can see you have to do the calculations.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    Isn't there also a potential sales tax consideration? A few years ago a salesman told me if I leased the car I would only have to pay sales tax on the difference between the original value and the (assumed) value at the end of the lease, on the assumption that the car is returned to the dealer at the end. Of course if I chose to buy the car at the end then I would have to pay the remaining sales tax at that time.

    This was in California. Things might be different in other states.
  • ideleidele Member Posts: 200
    I mentioned that there were tax considerations. From what you state clearly they matter in California. I always consider leasing. I check the residual percentage first. That's because it's used so often by Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others to disguise discounts. If the residual percentage is too low I stop there. There are other subtleties which can make a differece. For example, the annual mileage allowance; it's usually best to get it low, preferably below your expected mileage, and pay later for the extra miles.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    When I had my LS430 in for service I asked the service adviser if they have seen many initial-introduction problems on the LS460. He said none at all. There were only two cases of customers complaining about too much wind noise, but in both cases they tested the cars and found them to be perfect. The problem was that both customers had come to the LS460 from LS430's, and, he said, the LS430 is a very very quiet car, more so than the LS460.

    Just a bit of third-party, anecdotal evidence, but it is making me feel more content with keeping the LS430. For now.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Rennybosch - I find the LS460L quieter than the LS430. So does my wife and so do all the folks I talk to in my area who have the car. In fact most of us find it a lot quieter. I thought it might just be me because I have the air suspension but around my parts it's everyone, whether it's SWB, LWB, air suspension or base suspension. Nothing wrong with the LS430, I had 3 of them in 7 years so I know first hand how great that car is. But the LS460L is in a higher league and so apparently is the LS460 based on those I talk to who who have one and came out of LS430's.
  • hage58hage58 Member Posts: 1
    I agree with ljflx as to the LS460L being in a higher league than the LS430. This is my 5th LS and I have driven them since 1990. Having said that, however, I do have a wind noise, principally on the passenger side. I spoke with my dealer's service rep. yesterday and he said that there is a fix coming from Lexus and when they receive the information they will call my LS in for service. I am interested if anyone else has wind noise issues and/or is aware of a service bulletin concerning this problem.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I have no wind noise at all on the driver side and will check the passenger side. My wife had no problems at all on the passenger side when we drove on the Garden State Pkwy here in NJ and we were north of 80MPH. If there was wind noise she'd have said so. Driving at that speed is so effortless for this car and it's so smooth that you just have no clue you are going that fast until you check the speedometer.

    The Nav on this car is phenomenal both in ease of use and in it's resolution. I couldn't be more pleased with the car and both the handling and ride are a lot better than the LS430 and IMO it's quieter to boot. The screw-up on the car is the lack of passenger seat memory controls and that's probably fixed on the 2008.

    BTW - I'm averaging just over 20mpg on the car in a mix of country driving and highway.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Hage - Just took my car out and sat on the passenger side while my wife hit about 70 on a local highway. No wind noise whatsoever. This and the S550 are very very quiet and super lux in every detail. When was your car made? Mine just arrived in mid May so maybe they worked out whatever the early problem with wind noise was right away.
  • hage57hage57 Member Posts: 24
    Len- Thank you for your reply. I ordered my LS in December and received it in mid march and have about 3,000 miles on it.
    It was very windy today and even at low speeds (less than 40 mph), but with cross winds gusting to 35 mph, I noticed passenger side wind noise. I'm glad you and most others don't have this issue as I think Lexus will or has come up with a fix. Again, I agree with you as to the car, it far better in ride and preformance than my '04 LS 430. Lexus continues to produce a great product, plus their service continues to be the best.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    When you get that wind noise fixed you'll be as satisfied as me with the car. The more I drive it the more I realize how much better a car it is than the 2004. Same goes for the S550 when I drove it as it was well beyond the S500. It goes with the territory that you need that level of improvement.
  • dssxxxxdssxxxx Member Posts: 69
    My '04 430 was definitely quieter than my 460.

    Enough said.
  • tricky73tricky73 Member Posts: 132
    I agree; another reason I traded my 460L
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I have a 2001 LS 430 and decided to check out the new one.
    Here's my view:
    I really like the new body style. It is very elegant and modern. It looks like an expensive car.
    In a nutshell, to me the changes seem to be more evolutionary than revolutionary. The LS430 is a fine auto that does everything well and is bullet proof. The LS460 may be a little bit better. The nav screen is brighter, the ML stereo may be a bit better (hard to tell- is one great and the other greater?). It may be a bit faster if you really gun it from 0-60 but to my seat of the pants test, I couldn't tell the difference. They are both very quiet. Again I couldn't tell the difference. The salesman said that the steering had been sharpened up, but sorry, again, if it was, the difference is too subtle for me to feel (and I am very alert to these things). I did like the smaller steering wheel. The seats felt exactly the same as on my car.
    So if you liked the LS 430, I think you will like the 460 and it's added features. I'm just not sure that bump up in price is really warranted. Just one man's view and I am always willing to change my mind.
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