Lexus LS 460/LS 460L News, Views and Opinions
Let's huddle here for a general discussion, call it a home board, for the LS460 and LS460L and discuss what we like or dislike about the car, why you would buy/lease it, why you wouldn't buy/lease it, and other general data points and speculation about the car (if and when will we get AWD, for example) plus any lease or buy price deals you are negotiating if you are a buyer or potential buyer. As well chime in with any news or rumors from people in the know or car mags about future enhancements of the car later in the model year or in ensuing years (new nav system upgrades, larger engine displacement, AWD (again), will there be performance versions offered, etc etc). LS600HL has it's own board and probably should stay separate unless members think otherwise. As well it still has a lot of speculative data concerning its price and other specialty options whereas the LS460 and 460L are now "real" time cars.
Note there are several comments on the following link re quality and reliability: Lexus LS 460 Owner Experiences (Post #503.) I am having problems with mine, including wind noise although it seems more pronounced on the passenger side. Would love for you to keep us informed as you accumulate miles and experience.
But, check out the fine print at the bottom of the LS 460L page (link is to the right of the LS 460 just under the photo). See disclaimer #'s 17 & 18. It looks like the 17 & 18 in. tires may get "substantially less than 15,000 miles, the brake pads less than 20,000, and the rotors less than 50,000 miles for the special tires and brakes that come with that "Touring Package". I wonder how many LS 460L buyers will know or care about the trade off of improved handling and braking for increased maintainence costs?
BTW - Being drawn to all the new gizmos on the car I didn't notice what type of tires Lexus is putting on the car at this early stage. I hope they are Michelins rather than the Dunlops they've favored the last few years. Anyone pay attention to tires on the LS460 and 460L?
Tirerack lists all of the OEM tires as follows.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Lexus&autoModel=LS460L- - &autoYear=2007&autoModClar=Standard+Model
Interestingly, I seem to recall that Lexus never changed the footnote on limited tire life when they switched from 18" summer tires option on the 2004 LS to 18" all-season tires on the '05. Although both are low-profile, I believe the all-season tires last significantly longer than the summer tires; but knowing Toyota/Lexus' overly legalistic approach to everything, they probably decided to keep the disclaimer unchanged so nobody could have any possible basis to complain.
From the folks who brought you the requirement to press "I Agree" every time you start the car, make the navigation system unusable when moving, put ugly stickers on the visors that can't be removed, etc., etc.
I'm a Michelin fan - but Consumer Report rated the Dunlops higher, surprisingly. Whatever that means. Price could be a factor with them too.
I saw Bridgestones on the new 460 I drove. I don't like that - I'm still bitter over the Firestone/Explorer disaster, and Bridgestone (Firestone's parent) just stonewalled and refused to admit liability until forced too. Why Lexus would buy their tires for their cars is beyond me. Probably were I to buy a new 460 that had Bridgestones on it, I'd demand they switch them to the Dunlops.
Anyway, my point is that the LS is still a GREAT bargain, no matter what level of options you decide to load it up with.
Per Edmunds you can get the 7 to the mid 90's if all of these options are included and are allowed at the same time.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/bmw/7series/100528421/options.html?action=1&x=50- - &y=11
I do think you will see an LS600HL $120K configuration.
Options and accessories $24,675
Destination charge $695
Total price as built* $103,470
That's directly from bmwusa.com
Go there yourself, customize the 750Li so that it includes every option (Make sure to select everything from all four tabs under options and both pages for Convenience). No tricks like allowing options to be selected twice is needed. I thought you liked the LS, why are you trying to say that it doesn't provide value?
Also, do you really think the 600H L will hit 120K? That seems to be a little less of a great value, but the prestige factor gets major bonus points if this is true. I guess it's still a darn good deal though since it's essentially competing with the 12s for power.
The future of cars is electric with the electric displacement becoming 80% of the power source and gas used to boost power and recharge the battery. This is clearly where Toyota is going. They want to pioneer the electric car in mass production. Diesel is past generation and has inherent issues that IMO will prevent it from ever getting established well. Just watch how issue after issue on diesel safety - from carcinogens to clean air - take center stage.
BTW - how can a car that has 450HP and gets mileage in the 25-30 range lose anyway? They'll always be a buyer for such a car assuming an owner even wants to sell it.
Most reliable (Best score first)
2006 Lexus LS
Least reliable (Worst score first)
Cadillac STS (V8)
2006 Mercees-Benz S-class
Mercedes-Benz E-class sedan
Either way still a great marketing idea and since I am now buying one, anything that will keep up the value of this car works for me.
ljflx - because it is you , I will post this.
You should consider that diesels have been increasing sales faster on a percentage basis than hybrids for a number of months now, and that's with the limited selection that exists currently. Once the selection increases, and it WILL significantly, the percentage growth is projected to take off . . . and it WILL.
Also, there is the issue of infrastructure. There are many pumps and pumping stations all throughout the land, and there are very large interests in this revenue producing business. Even some of the big ag businesses have taken interest, because diesels can burn fuels from fossil sources OR agriculture sources . . . both HUGE businesses.
Either way, the diesels represent a way to keep the pumps flowing, and still deliver enormous fuel economy. The German diesel alliance will target the U.S. market soon with a marketing blitz unlike anything ever seen in this country.
I am not saying that the hybrid is dead, but the risk has indeed increased more for the hybrid recently, and will continue to be at an elevated level as we move forward, at LEAST for a number of years, while the new diesel products come to market and gather momentum and major advertising dollars.
Like it or not, modern diesels will become the "hot" player for a quite a number of years . . . and this time frame coincides with your potential ownership of the LS600hL. Risk? Oh yeah, plenty, sorry to say.
Fact is that the diesels are coming, and the hybrids will be affected. There is no way around this. I wish I could tell you otherwise. Especially since you are about to place some serious green into a hybrid. Personally, I have changed my thinking, and if it were me in your situation, I would pause for reconsideration of this purchase. But whatever you do, I certainly hope the best for you.
BTW I ordered the LWB yesterday which it will then take a few days to let me know when I can expect delivery which may be anywhere from a few days to up to a month depending upon availability.
I am going to wait until the spring to see what Lexus is going to do about AWD possibilities on the LS460L. I assume there is no new news on this front. As some of you know, I really want the LS600HL but I don't think I can cope with a tiny trunk. More will be revealed in the next several months.
Does anyone know why?
If for noise reduction, I would have thought it would have been available on both models.
The recent Consumer Reports data is for the outgoing 2006 S-Class, not the new 2007 S-Class (S550).
Still can't get anything firm on AWD. The manager at my shop who I know well was really annoyed. He has a number of others pestering him on both AWD and the sport touring edition plus the LS600HL and he can't get answers from HQ. I'm bothering him on all three of those editions.
I totally agree with you about the new structure on the Edmunds forums. I will say no more.