Lexus LS 460/LS 460L News, Views and Opinions

ljflx

The air suspension gives you ride control options as well, as it allows you to tune the car to a sport or luxury ride. My experience is simply that the LWB is just a better car with a better ride, will hold more value L/T as that is the direction Lexus is going in and simply provides more features, options and room. SWB is not even a consideration for me at this point. My dealership had no SWB cars available so clearly they sell them immediately.

Cyclone - I'll keep you posted on anything I find out.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

hendjaz

The availability of the air suspension in the L version only is what made me choose the L over the SWB version and then chose the Touring package in the L to maximize the handling capabilities. As noted the additional cost of going to the L was insignificant when you compare how the cars are coming in optioned and given this price range. For me, the air suspension was a must have so I didn't consider the SWB for very long. Been driving the Touring L for 3 weeks now and no regrets.

jd14

the legroom numbers front and rear? Is Lexus afraid to release them or something? Anyway, a few of you already have 460Ls, so your estimates would be greatly appreciated. Additionaly, hendjaz, did you're Touring L come with the luxury package and/or rear seat upgrade package? Because according to Edmunds they can't be ordered together...seems like a mistake to me.

hendjaz

Not sure about the legroom numbers but in the L the rear seat space is huge and noticably larger than the SWB.

I believe Edmunds is correct on the Touring package as mine did not have the lux package in the rear. It has heated rear seats but not cooled and rear seats don't recline. It comes with a full size trunk as a result though. I think this is the general configuration of the Touring L but maybe a special order is possible.

jd14

Thanks for the info!

fin

If you had, or have, an LS 430 and now drive a 460... how does the trunk space in the new 460 compare? Same usable space? Or less? Assume the 430 has no rear air (Ultra) to take up room. Thanks...

nvbanker

I've heard about the maintenance issues w/ MB and BMW and I'm hearing that the Lexus is the one to go with. does anyone agree with that or have experienced b or bmw?

You're hearing from a guy who did exactly that. I had an s-Class on order, when the service manager waived me off with the expense of keeping one running. I went with the Lexus LS430, not because it's the best handling or driving, or even looking. Because it's the best made, cheapest to own, and most reliable in the class. The S and 7 drive a little nicer, but you'll pay for that service.

Jon90

I am waiting about 12 months or so for my GS to wear out a little more then planning to get an LS hopefully with a little discount just because it feels better. Kinda funny how we are willing to lay out 80K on a car, but still want a "deal". Anyhow, i was once told that new wipers for an S class were approx 280 bucks...don't know how true, but if so, borderline rediculous

nvbanker

Anyhow, i was once told that new wipers for an S class were approx 280 bucks...don't know how true, but if so, borderline rediculous

Borderline? What constitutes "ridiculous" to you, on an $80,000 car? It's plenty ridiculous.

Your regular service interval on an MB can be from $1500 to $4000, but you DO get new wiper blades in there somewhere.

pat

Comments about the structure of the Forums may be posted in the Software discussion, but they are not on topic here.

I do wish those of you who have strong feelings about what's going on would post them there where the Forums managers will see them. Your comments will not be seen here (even if they weren't removed).

If you haven't been following that discussion, you may have missed the fact that TPTB certainly are listening to members like you and many things have been re-thought and changed because of their helpful feedback.

Please provide yours in the place where it will be heard.

I appreciate your cooperation on this.

kh9079

Thanks for your input. I agree with you and I'm still considering the Lexus over bmw or mb mainly because of the maintenance costs. I would like to find out if bmw is still offering that 4 year free main. thought lol!

dewey

1) As posted by Merc1 in the HELC forum below is the latest Car & Driver comparison test results :

1st - MB S550
2nd - Audi A8L
3rd - BMW 750iL
4th - Jaguar XJ8 Super V8
5th - Lexus LS460L

Yes the new LS is dead last. DEAD LAST!! What a difference from the 2000 C & D results when the LS beat the S Class. Oh well folks at least there is always hope for the new 2012 LS480 :P

CAR&DRIVER

2)I would like to find out if bmw is still offering that 4 year free main. thought lol!

KH9079,

You bet! Also I've owned BMWs for many years out-of-warranty and ended up spending minimal repair/service costs. The secret is finding a good independent repair shop that specializes in BMWs. BMW dealerships are only meant to be used during warranty periods (unless you can tolerate some financial hardship).

ljflx

Who cares - they have a performance bias. Anyone buying a car like this with performance first in pecking order should be buying a different car. This is like buying a great TV. Give me a 10,000:1 contrast ratio anyday over 1080P. But if you are looking purely at resolutiom than 1080P will win. The only two cars that matter to me in that list is the MB and Lexus and after test driving both they are practically identical to me. Both ride spectacularly and handling is hardly different. It's a matter of styling tastes and how much you want to spend. As far as I'm concerned the other 3 cars don't exist.

dewey

It's a matter of styling tastes and how much you want to spend. As far as I'm concerned the other 3 cars don't exist.

We are at opposite ends of the spectrum. As far as I'm concerned all five cars dont exist. Large size and heavy weight(weighed down by gizmos) enhances the luxury aspect of all the five cars on the list but at the high expense of driving dynamics(which is best in the form of a small nimble light car)

I even find my wife's BMW 5 Series as too big. I dread the thought of driving anything bigger--but this forum is not about me it is about the LS and the C & D results.
And according to the C & D results the S Class did not only beat the LS in terms of chassis and drivetrain attributes but also in terms of such non-perforamance qualities such as driving comfort, rear seat space, trunk space and last but not least fit and finish.

pat

We don't need to have this conversation in more than one discussion. Let's continue in the High End Luxury Cars since that is the logical place to get into comparison debates. Thanks.

atlas7

WHO CARES WHAT C&D THINKS, I AM ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT I THINK...FOR ME, IT'S 460 VS 550...WILL LET YOU KNOW...COULDN'T CARE LESS WHAT SOME MAGAZINE THINKS!

hpowders

That's the spirit! After you drive both vehicles, please post your findings.
I have always said, test drive the vehicles you may be interested in. The vehicle has to work for you!

hpowders

But we all know that's what the auto mags do.
Performance is everything. Do they ever say anything about reliability?
They live at redline. Who else drives like that?
You must have had a pretty good feeling that the LS would not fair well in that comparo.
Shouldn't stop anyone who has test driven the car and liked it from purchasing it.

mmm1

Pat--thanks for your response in post #63 re posting format structure on the Software forum. Very helpful comments. Will post comments there.

dewey

WHO CARES WHAT C&D THINKS, I AM ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT I THINK...FOR ME, IT'S 460 VS 550...WILL LET YOU KNOW...COULDN'T CARE LESS WHAT SOME MAGAZINE THINKS!

If it was only what you think that matters then why even bother attending an auto forum called LS Views, Opinions and News?

If it was only what you think that matters then why are you SHOUTING SO LOUD IN RESPONSE TO WHAT A MAGAZINE THINKS ABOUT THE LS :confuse:

Apparently you really do care. In fact you do care a bit too much, IMO.

nvbanker

I appreciate the link, Pat!

atlas7

I don't care about the magazines opinion and I don't care about yours either....You fail to understand that the only opinion that matters is mine!

tjohn

Man, C&D are in the business to sell magazines and pocket what they can from the MFG's. "LS IS DEAD LAST" No need to even read into that junk...let alone argue about it on this board (doing exactly what they want). I would love for C&D to do the same testing after each auto has 50,000 miles clicked away on the ODO with a quick statement regarding time spent in the SHOP and NOT ON THE ROAD! For sedans this expensive (and this size), what matters most is value, IMHO. And nothing can come close to what the LS offers in customer service, durability and reliability. What saddens me the most is there is almost zero interest in the 430's now, an outstanding auto that offers unbeatable value right now...ALL dealers are having trouble moving them. Even with prices well under invoice for the new ones and around or below Trade for the used ones. For C&D to rank a Jag higher than a Lex tells me they are taking Ford money to do so...not in a million years will a Jag beat out a Lex!

happy motoring!

tjohn

Hey, Kudos to C&D, the bad press (even though it should be in the comic or fiction section on the mag rack) only gives me and sensible other would-be LS buyers leverage and more negotiating power to purchase a superior LS 430 for an even more unbeatable and unmatched value...

happy motoring!

atlas7

Has anyone noticed that on all of the reviews of the 460, none of them are quoting 0-60 times of the advertised 5.4 seconds. Have seen times all the way up to 6.2 seconds.
What do you think is going on here?

cyclone4

Has anyone heard anything new on a possible AWD LS460L for this next year? I read something on Club Lexus that sounds like it is a given, but I think the poster was just guessing.

syswei

I asked about it at TOL and was told late CY 2007.

2001gs430

Check MT result. I think it was 5.6 sec">link title

shop123

I am still troubled by the fact that you cannot pair the Touring Package with the Luxury and Rear Seat Packages on the 460L. It seems odd that Lexus is the only lux manufacturer that makes you choose between sport and luxury. I would love to hear from someone who currently has the Touring Package. Do the tires and brakes make a significant difference in the handling of the vehicle? I hate to sacrifice the luxury and REALLY need the rear side window shades.

syswei

Maybe ask the dealer and see if it can be special-ordered that way?

jd14

You know what, I was wondering the exact same thing. It seems only air suspension is available in conjunction with the luxury rear seat packages, while the Touring Package with larger brakes and tires is reserved only for non-luxury models. I'm guessing that if you want luxury and performance Lexus wants you to opt. for the 600h L, but that seems strange to me.

shop123

I already asked. No deal. They said it may be on the horizon based on consumer feeback (next year??).

hendjaz

There's some prior discussion about the Touring at messages #52-55 or thereabouts. A search for "touring" will find other related discussion.

Air suspension comes in the L and not the SWB version. The Touring definetly has the air suspension because its an L. Coupled with the larger wheels, tires, brakes lowered stance, etc. the Touring is the way to go if you want the best driving dynamics.

As mentioned in earlier posts the Touring has all the luxury that most folks want but if you want the reclining and cooled (rather than just heated) rear seats, rear passenger audio/AC controls and additonal rear AC unit then you have to make a choice between the L with the Lux package or with the Touring package. The benefit of not getting the Lux package is that you get a full sized trunk whereas the Lux package intrudes some into the trunk making it smaller.

I had the choice and chose the Touring because of the enhanced driving characteristics along with plenty of luxury and room.

cyclone4

Thanks syswei. I may just have to wait until that time. I was all set to go for the LS600HL, but the horror news I hear about the trunk size is scaring me off. I'm sure that many other potential buyers of the LS600HL feel the same way.

syswei

but the horror news I hear about the trunk size is scaring me off

Yes, that's exactly how I feel.

syswei

Why isn't the old general LS460 forum back yet?

shop123

Thanks for the feedback. Since I haven't been able to drive a car with the Touring Package, I didn't know how much difference there was in the performance. I'm coming from a BMW :lemon:. So, performance is a priority. However, I have a child that rides in the rear seat. The ONLY item from the LR package I want is the auto rear side shades. An option that BMW & MB have. It seems silly to say that the Rear Side Shades are a deal breaker, but I HATE giving up an option I use everyday. It's like going backwards.

pat

Nothing was ever removed or closed regarding the LS 460. You are probably talking about the discussion that acquired a new name when it moved from Future Vehicles to Sedans, but nothing is missing now nor was anything ever missing.

Again, this is not the place for these conversations - email me if you have further questions.

hendjaz

shop123, good point on the rear shades as I forgot about those and I would have liked them too, probably more than the gadgets. Also have two kids and they would have found a way to break the gadgets in the rear seat.

The Touring package does make a difference. As a driver you will probably be happier with the Touring but I doubt you will be unhappy with the L w/lux so you can't lose either way. It's just a personal preference thing.

If you are coming from a 7-series you will probably get more luxury and reliability with the LS but I would expect the performance edge will go to the 7 but not by a lot with the Touring L. If you are coming from a 5 or 3 series then you really can't compare as the 460L is so much larger.

I had an 03 530 which was wonderful for handling quickness, for a sedan, but it is nowhere near the LS in any other respect, but again that's not a fair comparison.

Availability may answer your dilemma as my dealer says they are not finding they can get many Touring Ls as most of what they are getting are Ls w/lux so that should be much more available, albeit still in limited supply.

shop123

Thanks. I think you helped make my decision. I had the 740Li. Performance was unparalleled. However, IF the electronics worked, they were unreliable at best. Nothing like driving an 85K car with the only functional options being power windows and locks (yes even the cd/stereo didn't work). The joke in my neighborhood was that I drove a rental car more than my BMW. Which is what brought me to Lexus. I rely on the electronics/features everyday, and I need them to work. Lexus seems to have the upper hand on BMW and MB in that area. But, I was a little disappointed in the performance.

Therefore, I think the Touring Package will be the answer if I decide to go with this car. I am going to have to order it, which is a definite down side, and I will miss those sunshades!

Thanks for your feedback, it was VERY helpful.

syswei

Have you considered some aftermarket tinting for the rear and rear sides?

shop123

I have considered aftermarket tinting, and have had it in previous cars. The disadvantage is that it slightly distorts/obstructs an otherwise clear view (especially at night). With the sunshades, you can put them up/down at your convenience. They must be automatic to be useful for children who can't control them, or those situations when the child has left the car and the shades are still up.

It is a minor inconvenience, but Lexus seems to have missed the boat whereas their competition has been in play for 2+ years. I know the market majority for this vehicle does not include rear seat passengers on a daily basis. However, there are those of us who value this seemingly insignificant option.

Thank you for the suggestion. I would love to make this work for me! :confuse:

hendjaz

"yes even the cd/stereo didn't work"

After having that kind of experience,I expect you will really like the electronics in the 460L. They are very complete, functional, fun and reliable. The self parking feature gets all the advertising and public attention but the stuff you really use every day is what matters the most, from the sensors front and back for parking assist (beeping to make sure you don't bump into parking garage pillars, etc.) and auto/sonar cruise control.

My favorite everyday feature of many, many is the 30g music hard drive(HDD)which burns CDs at 4x speed so you can always have your library with you. Usually listen to XM when open to the sky but switch (via voice command) to the HDD whenever in a parking garage or long tunnel. Its a great compliment to XM, particularly for a road trip.

With a full size trunk and huge back seat area its practically a stealth SUV because it will hold so much stuff. The fact that its fun to drive, the engine is so strong and has a nice note to it is what its all about though.

syswei

Can the forum title be changed to "Lexus LS 460, LS 460L, LS 600hL"? Seems to me that many of the other forums have a general category like "Audi Q7" or "Lexus LX 470".

pat

A reporter with a national newspaper is hoping to talk with consumers who have received or are giving a luxury car as a gift for Christmas. Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Friday, December 8, 2006 with your daytime contact info.

Thanks,

Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds Inc.

shop123

RE: electronics in the 460L. They complete, functional, fun and reliable

The best reason to choose Lexus. My last three cars were MB and BMW, I feel its time to give Lexus a shot. Although I am slightly disappointed in the performance, I feel the overall reliability and satisfaction are worth the trade. I struggled with the decision, but feel that Lexus has the most to offer. Unfortunately, I am going to have to wait 4 months and special order the car to get the Touring Package. But, I am looking forward to the increased driving dynamics that the TP has to offer.

Did you have the standard Touring Package 19" rims? I noticed that the only photos of these rims, while on the vehicle, are when they are in motion. Therefore, I haven't seen what they look like on the car. The pic of just the rim seems unimpressive. How do they look?

cyclone4

They give it a perfect 10. Wow!

http://reviews.cnet.com/2007_Lexus_LS_460_L/4505-10865_7-32172595.html?tag=subna- - v

atlas7

I was on the Lexus Website and they have a comparison for the LS460 vs other cars. I plugged in the MB S550 and went down the list of features and spec's. When I got to the columns for front and rear leg room, Lexus didn't put any numbers in, they commented that they were "researching the issue"....YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING!!! They don't know the leg room in their own car? Lexus is losing credibility with me when they pull this type of stuff. I wouldn't have expected this from Lexus! Get's even better, they also claimed they didn't know the MB S550 0-60 time. Heck it's in every magazine and it's available on the Benz spec sheets...Lexus is disappointing me in how cheesy they are in these comparisons and being evasive with data that they clearly have!

billsoter

The compatative data on the Lexus web site are from Edmunds.

nvbanker

Well, the Lexus out accelerates the MB, 0-60, so I doubt they're hiding anything there, and as for the legroom, the regular model has less than the MB, the L has the same or more, I can't recall. Makes no sense that they would be deliberately being evasive about facts - I have to believe it's the webmaster issue..