Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - X

cpousnr

You raise a great point.

When you increase production to meet increased demand, the potential for problems could arise.

Just simple logic. When your production facilities do not increase, you must work them harder. Increased wear on machines, OT for workers (reduced productivity in the OT hours) and suppliers must do the same to keep up with the increased demand.

If you look at the Ranger sales/production statistics, the percentage incerease is not as high as those of the Tacoma. I would guess the increase in production on the Tacoma is due to it's popularity withing it's given segment.

Now, what does this all mean? It adds credibility to opinions expressed by publications such as Consumer Reports, that has recognized a measurable decrease in the quality of the Tacoma.

Now this does not mean Tacoma is bad. It just means that it is being recognized in the industry that there is a measurable decrease in quality with the Toyota vehicles, in this case, the Tacoma. Could be any number of reasons.

cthompson21

Hmm... High school honor student and a Dean's List graduate from the top rated accounting program in the country.

I guess you just can't handle debating with someone who has a brain and doesn't take everything you say as gospel, even though I probably agree with more of your opinions than disagree with them.



"ABS wasn't designed to stop a vehicle in a shorter distance and that a trained driver, i.e., a trained race driver, could stop a vehicle in a shorter distance."

Duh. Reread what you wrote. It's what I said. Instead, you revert to 3rd grade insults. I guess it's what I should expect as I've seen your pattern over and over.

allknowing

Does Consumer Reports really say that? This is not a sarcastic challenge CP but rater something I'd really be interested in seeing. What issue of Consumer Reports says that the Tacoma has a measurable decrease in quality. I'd be interested in reading what they have to say because I've only read the opposite from Consumer Reports.

cthompson21

Those are definately some valid observations. I remember hearing that the drawing board to showroom time has decreased from something like 5 years to 18 months in the past decade.

Ford does seem to have the terrible habit of bringing a vehicle to market before it's got all of the major bugs worked out. Just take a look at the Escape and Focus. Both have had serious problems and major recalls in the first couple of months of their release.

I wonder if those increased sales are worth the warranty repairs, recalls, and poor brand image that too soon of an intro seems to entail.


I also think that some of increased development time for Honda/Toyota/Nissan is due to the vehicle being developed for multiple markets (i.e. Asia vs North America). I'm sure there's testing, redesign, and development that holds things up for a while.

allknowing

I was also an honer student, graduated 20th in a class of more than 600, a MGM student, selected to attend college courses in the eleventh grade and so forth but big deal. I've worked with MIT grads that weren't the brightest too and were forced to change jobs every few years, living on their education reputation because they didn't contribute much to a company. You might think you're the mental giant of this forum but from what I've seen, and several others here seem to agree, is that you acquire twisted views of comments because you appear to have trouble comprehending at more than a simplistic, superficial level. Then you resort to a goofy authoritative mocking attitude only to make yourself look worse. That's how I see it anyway based on my experience with you.
You don't have to agree with what I say but you a bad habit of twisting and taking out context comments to say something else. Funny how others don't have trouble comprehending what I say but I guess everybody else isn't at your level as it couln't be you. Even Vince understood my side of the last discussion that you have trouble with. I disagree with Vince on most everything but one thing I can say about him is that he doesn't twist other people's responses.

I don't want to fight with you guy but it's a waste of time discussing anything with you.

cthompson21

"I don't want to fight with you guy but it's a
waste of time discussing anything with you."

Agreed. You're like talking with a brick wall. You love to spew out childish insults about intellect and the like. It just shows how insecure you are about your own smarts.

I'm sorry that you can only see things as black and white. It's very limiting.

Fare thee well.

cpousnr

As I recall, the specific comment from Consumer Reports was that the Tacoma was not up to the standards they expect from Toyota.

Hope this correction makes it clearer. I also was just generalizing regarding the increase by Toyota from around 100,000 units to around 160,000 units may cause some decrease in quality due to producing a higher number from the same plant. Now the Fremont plant is basically state of the art, even though it was an old Chevy plant in it's previous life. They made the small Chevy and later the joint venture Corolla there. However, increase the units of Tacoma's by over 50% and something has to give. It is usually quality that suffers when you increase output rates and everything else remains basically the same.

cpousnr

Wow, my measly BS from a local state school does not rank eh?

Just kidding. . .!

cthompson21

No probs! I went to a state school too. College is freaking expensive.

I've got about 7 years left of paying off college debts. Damn!!!

Grad school is just on the horizon too. Anybody got some seeds for those money trees???

ranger47

BUT, none of them came up.. Guess I'll have to make it the old fashion way... Work for it... lol.

cthompson21

Well, maybe that or selling a kidney... :^D

scape2

Allknowing, you may bash Ford for its quality/workmanship. But you really need to vist www.auto.com and JD powers and see past awards Ford plants have won for quality, productivity and environmental issues. As I stated before Toyota takes more market share from GM than it does Ford. Toyota has a reputation that is slowly fading into history. Take a trip around the net to other chat rooms and you will find plenty of digruntled Toyota/Honda/Nissan owners. The market share grab has leveled off for the last 3 years. The Japanese hold about 28 to 29 percent of the TOTAL market share here in the U.S. I strongly believe Toyota/Honda/Nissan were good for the U.S. automakers. It forced them to become more productive and build better vehicles. If you are truely into manufacturing you know your competition will catch you, its only a matter of time. I know I am going to hear the arguement that the Japanese are always improving. Then I have to ask, why is their economy still in recession after 6 years? I read a very interesting article on the Korean automakers about 3 months ago. Remember how we all used to laugh at the Hyundia line of cars. The Koreans are scoring huge in customer satisfaction/quality and workmanship. I no longer laugh when I see a Hyundia. I personally don't feel it work the extra 2-3 grand for a Toyota of any model. This because I have had great reliability from Ford for a whole lot less out of my pocket.

allknowing

The teaming of Toyota with GM made me wonder what would happen. I've had lots of Nissan experience but this is my first Toyota. Could be that they're going on the wrong path but I've had good luck so far. By the way, I interrupted my education to work lots of overtime hours for a few years so I ended up going to a state college too. Like I said before, I've worked with many people from M.I.T. because I worked in an industry making scientific test instruments. All but maybe two were rich kids pushed through school by their rich families and didn't impress me much. The best engineers I ever worked with graduated from state colleges.

Vince- I don't mean to bash Ford's quality but I've had a lot of bad luck with them lately between my sister's Mustang, my co-workers Mustang, and my wife's truck. Maybe I'm just unlucky. My wife had an 89 Ford Bronco II before this 98 truck and it rarely had any problems. From my perspective it appears that Ford's quality is headed down but that's just my experience. I'd still buy a Ford any day over a GM or a Dodge vehicle.

allknowing

Checking your link shows Ford doing well but Toyota and Lexus doing much better so I don't think you can say Toyota's reputation is fading into history. They're still at the top.

allknowing

Further reading of your links stories made Toyota look great. Where are you finding anything about Toyota fading? Statements like:" Toyota, Japan's No. 1 automaker, which has long been a leader in vehicle quality, captured the top spot in eight of 14 vehicle segments. The only domestic brand to win a top spot was DaimlerChrysler's Plymouth Breeze entry-level mid-size car, which ironically was recently discontinued". The J,D. Powers article doesn't really praise Ford but compliment Toyota. In fact, the article on top quality vehicles barely mentioned Ford. I'm really not trying to be derogatory but did I miss something?

spoog

LOL! Ranger advocates giving links that only show the Toyota greatness in reliability!

Why doesn't that surprise me? I have won this argument time and time again. I have made Cspounser, Vince, and Cthompson look like the clueless hillbillies that they are.

This is just too amusing.

ranger47

Now there is a guy that is a legend in his own mind. LOL... Thanks for the humor spoog........

scape2

The way you dismiss anything positive about Ford/GM/Dodge and constantly highlight Toyota is starting to get old. I know you read the articles about Ford plants winning awards in the past and present. I still have to wonder how Toyota hides problems like the obvious headgasket problems that were rampant in the T100 and Tacoma models. Nowhere can you find a recall or a TSB? Why? The problems are there, as I have said, search the net, visit other chat rooms. There are plenty of angry Toyota/Honda/Nissan owners out there. I just wonder why none of this reaches JD powers, consumer reports, or the NHSTA.. Hmmm....

scape2

Spoog is back! I notice you stayed out of the room with they guy who owns a Tacoma and can't sell it!@ Why? I thought these trucks appreciated and were in serious hot demand, people lined up to buy them! LOL!!

allknowing

I, for one am not saying that Toyota never has any problems. I just followed you link hoping to find supporting evidence to your statement that Toyota has a reputation that is slowly fading into
history. In contrast, I found that Toyota's quality ruled in 8 out of 14 categories. Complain to your autozone - J.D. Powers link, not us.

allknowing

S/b "your" link

allknowing

I'm sure Toyota has threatened to send Ninjas, Godzilla, or something after the families of key people in Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers, an NHSTA if they ever print anything bad about their vehicles. What other explanation could there be?

allknowing

and

xena1a

I thought I saw that big 'ol lizard when I was up in Colorado last summer. Now I understand why. He must have been chasing Cpousnr around!!!

tacomafrank

2001 Tacoma Double Cab named "Truck of the Year" by Four Wheeler magazine

akshobhyavajra

I recently purchased a 2000 new Ranger XL with the 2.5 l manual. I wanted basic transportation for my daily 100 mile commute. I purchased the truck with AC, Stereo and bedliner for 12 grand and must say that I am pleased with it. The truck, which has airbags and antilock brakes, handles well and looks good. I am sure that Toyota, Chevy, Dodge, Mazda and Nissan all make decent trucks - but after shopping around for a few weeks the Ford Ranger was the best deal in my area (S. Florida).

barlitz

how can anybody name a truck that isn't even on the road yet truck of the year.Just goes to show they pay em off.

obyone

they are comic books...LMAO!!

scape2

It really does make you wonder, how they can name a truck that hasn't even been out on the market 3 months "Truck of the Year"? Someone is lining someones pocket.... That grill is somthing to be desired also....

tacomafrank

The 2001 4 door has been is on the road already. I've seen pictures of one with a huge lift on it from a guy on a Tacoma message board.

And all they have to review is the handling, performance, comfort, features, etc, like they do on any new truck. The basics of the truck like drivetrain, etc, are the same, and already have an established record.

allknowing

Toyota controls all magazines too by also putting their families at risk as with J.D. Powers, NHSTA, and the others. Everyone is afraid to say anything but good about Toyota. Toyota has to use those tactics because it would be too expensive to pay everybody off. What other explanation could there be, right Vince?

spoog

"I'm sure Toyota has threatened to send Ninjas,
Godzilla, or something after the families of key
people in Consumer Reports, J.D. Powers, an NHSTA
if they ever print anything bad about their
vehicles. What other explanation could there be?'"


hahahahhaaha1 Great post.

spoog

What magazine was that in, and what trucks were in the competition? IS there a website?

Thanks

tacomafrank

Four Wheeler Magazine. They have a site, but the current issue isn't on there yet

cpousnr

since spoog quotes from Four Wheeler so often, one would think he would know something about it.

Do not forget, tacomafrank, Four Wheeler is a very subjective magazine.

barlitz

Sorry haven't seen one yet still can't believe its truck of the year.I think thats a joke and anybody who would buy a truck based on that should have there head examined.BTW there is a tinknocker on my job site who is having all sorts of problems with his 99,nothing major mechanical but minor like brake light problems,wiper controls,head light switch.Other than that he's been happy with his tacoma.

cpousnr

truck of the year is determined sometimes in Apr-May timeframe.

Also, all they do is take the trucks that have been significantly CHANGED in the model year, not EVERY truck.

As the major modification to the Tacoma in 2001 is the doors, colors and a tacky grille,...well, not to dispute tacomafrank, but it seems doubtful.

What trucks did the Tacoma compete against?

cpousnr

Four Wheeler does not, as far as I saw, declare Tacoma Truck of the Year.

spoog

"Do not forget, tacomafrank, Four Wheeler is a very
subjective magazine."


Yeah, things like ground clearance, braking, and locking rear diffs in action are" subjective". Get your head out of your a3## Cspounser.

spoog

So tell us, Cspounser, what would not be subjective?

Your argument is beyond lame.

The 4wheeler test is an accurate test to determine the offroad worthiness of a truck.

The Ranger isn't a real 4 wheeler, so it's not much competition. It was a real 4wheeler pre 93, but those days are gone.

cpousnr

"The 4wheeler test is an accurate test to determine the offroad worthiness of a truck."

Really, that accurate?
Then why was that magazine unable to even documnet correctly the configuration of the Ranger?

"The Ranger isn't a real 4 wheeler, so it's not
much competition. It was a real 4wheeler pre 93,
but those days are gone."

As usual no facts to supprt. Just like no pictures of a vehicle he may or may not own...

sparkplug1

Just read some new magazines on the news stand and the Consumers Report rated the Tacoma as "recommended" and the Ranger as "Best Buy". Best buy by the way is better than recommended. Consumer Guide also rated the Ranger as "Best Buy" but was not at all kind to the Tacoma, stating it had a "horrible ride" among other things. Both tested the largest engine and manual transmission configurations and Consumer Report praised the new 4.0 SOHC.

eagle63

"The Ranger isn't a real 4 wheeler, so it's not much competition. It was a real 4wheeler pre-93,
but those days are gone."

What did the pre-93 rangers have that made them "real 4wheelers?"

modvptnl

....where spoog goes into the song and dance about torsion bar suspension being no good and then forgets the Toy Land cruiser runs torsion bars but they can go to Antarctica through the water with their gold plated sun visors and blah....blah....blah.....

cpousnr

Consumer Report Buyers Guide says about:

Tacoma:
The compact Tacoma pickup truck rides uncomfortably and handles ponderously. Acceleration is adequate. The seats are low and flat.
It is not listed as "Recommended", reliability well above average, depreciation average.

Ranger:
"Handling is good although the ride is choppy. The "super cab" version has ample storage space as well as four doors."

Check rated as "recommended", reliability and depreciation is average.

rickc5

Toyota made a good truck prior to the Tacoma, but those days are gone.

I'm still wondering why you put so much emphasis on a truck's 4-wheeling capability, when most truck owners only 4-wheel about 5% of the time they drive their trucks, if that much.

Its the Tacoma's on-road capabilities that make it such a pain to live with. Bad ride, bad seats, lots of noise, etc.

So when are you going to post a photo of your truck? No fair posting a photo of someone else's.

allknowing

I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I like the ride of the TRD Tacoma better than the ride of the Ranger. The Tacoma's bucket seats are just as comfortable to me as those on the Ranger too even on long trips.

scape2

Are you Tacoma boys enjoying your 3 Wheel Drive? Nope that is not a mistype, I said 3 Wheel drive! LOL!! Open rear axles are a bummer huh??? The only time a TRD is any good at all is offroad. The locker is absolutely useless otherwise, can't tow with it, can't haul with it, Can't use it unless in 4low and going less than 5mpg!@! LOL! Then you have the Bilstein shocks and springs Toyota charges triple for! LOL!!
The Ranger is the best all around compact truck today. The new SOHC 4.0 just hammers the nail in the coffin for the Tacoma. The new offroad Ranger will have a much more useful rear diff setup than the TRD. OOOOOHHHH What a feeling! of getting ripped off... Tinoda!
See you in the Cascade range!

spoog

" If you are looking for a used Ranger, take a long, long test drive"

- Edmunds.com


" The Ranger rattled and sputtered like a diamondback offroad"

-Edmunds.com

spoog

1999 JD powers long term(5 year) reliability test:


http://www.jdpower.com/global/jdpaawards/releases/images/vdi99.gif

Dodge finishes far below average.



#174 of 174: What are the most reliable cars and trucks? (spoog) Fri 11 Aug '00 (06:33 PM)

http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=292&CatID=1



Well, here is a FIVE year, long term study to let
you know just WHO makes the most reliable and
bullet proof vehicles on this planet.

ENJOY!