Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

1…100101103105106…121

Comments

  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Caddy is an "old upscale" brand that is trying to change it's image. Like Buick, the only excitement is the CTS. I chose a BMW because of the lack of appeal (IMHO) for both luxury and performance in a desirable product from Caddy, Lincoln or Chrysler.

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...as a much prettier and much more sensible alternative to the others. The first thing that I look for in a car is styling and I have always found Cadillac the most attractive of all cars manufactured at any price. I can depend on my Cadillacs and Buicks to get me to work and I won't need to endure a vicious financial raping to service or repair them.

    Lincoln has nothing except the obsolete Town Car and a few badge-engineered trucks. The MKZ, (liked Zephyr a LOT better) is a lost opportunity.

    Chrysler is no longer a luxury car maker since it dropped the "real" Imperial back in 1975 although I really, really liked the 1976-78 New Yorker Brougham.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    My Mom also had a 1976 CNY Brougham...real Corinthian leather and all!

    Regards,
    OW
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Maybe girlfriend wants a new ride?

    Maybe what she really wants is a ring.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh, she wants that too, but I'd rather buy her the car. It's a lot cheaper over the long run. Heck, a Bentley would be cheaper over the long run than a marriage! :P
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    But a Bentley gives much more pleasure than a Caddy! Translation: Buy a Caddy and GET MARRIED!

    Regards,
    OW
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    "Heck, a Bentley would be cheaper over the long run than a marriage! "

    Sure, NOW you tell me!! Where were you 16 years ago w/ this jewel of advice :P

    PS I LOVE MY WIFE (just in case she reads this)
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    It reminds me of the Chrysler Sebring. And that's not a good thing. Color me unimpressed.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Next someone will say it looks like a Camry.

    image
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The bizarre hood-top vents and the headlights make it look like some sort of Chinese car. ;)
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    I agree, the Genesis looks better, much better actually, than the DTS, except for the Klingon grill (not so cool imo).
    I still wonder about their sales target though, trying to compete with Acura I guess.... and with Acura's current state (thanks to the tin head designer :P ) Hyundai might have a chance.

    The bizarre hood-top vents and the headlights make it look like some sort of Chinese car.

    well, considering some Buicks are designed and made in China, I wont be surprised.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    At least this has some soul and excitement...let us see what we REALLY get when they are productionized!

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...no other vehicle is prettier than the DTS. My number one priority when buying a car is its styling, and I have always loved the classic Cadillac look. The stacked lights remind me of the 1965-68 models. The slim vertical taillights are pure Caddy.

    The Genesis looks like every other anonymous Asian sedan with a really gross grille. Shoot, is the designer of the 1961 Plymouth grille now working at Hyundai?
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    When the deVille moved to the G-body (Aurora body design) for the 2000 model year the styling was similar to the Seville, but in my opinion the DeVille is a bit too long for the Seville styling lines to work well. The FWD Seville was better looking.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I had a G-body Seville as well. Too bad they didn't keep the current STS the same length as my old car else I'd have probable gone for it instead. I'd say the DTS is about 6" longer than my 2002 Seville STS. The length isn't all wasted in the DTS. There seems to be a lot more back seat space. I'm hoping for a RWD/AWD DTS in the future.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The RWD STS is not as wide as the FWD was, so the interior will seem somewhat smaller. The DTS/deVille has always had a large rear seat area. This is why it is not a sports sedan. The T in DTS means touring, Touring, as applied to cars, is not well defined. For GM cars, touring usually meant better handling than the standard model (Buick T-types, Olds Touring, STS ...).
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Well, like they said, beauty is subjective. The DTS looks just ok, but the pre-facelift version (when it was named deVille) looks horrific. The Gen will look much better with other grill. When it comes to Cadillac I find STS and Escalade best looking.

    I'm not saying the Gen's interior has luxo quality look to it, but noone can deny the fact that its so good compared to other Hyundais'. Trying to steal Lexus customers? I dont think so. Trying to steal Nissan maxima, toyota avalon, or premium models from Buick and Chrysler buyers? yes, maybe.

    "While I might agree this will take time, I saw the car up close and a $36K Gen will get my money in a heartbeat faster then a $46K DTS"
    I agree if I have to choose between the 2, although for $36k I dare bet Infiniti or BMW will win my money instead. No Hyundai will ever get 36k from my pocket.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Trying to steal Lexus customers? I dont think so. Trying to steal Nissan maxima, toyota avalon, or premium models from Buick and Chrysler buyers? yes, maybe.

    Exactly what I think as well.

    No Hyundai will ever get 36k from my pocket.


    Nor mine.... I like the Sonata for the money - beyond that, you pay more, and get no more, IMO.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    image

    2010 Cadillac CTS Sport Wagon and SRX
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    A Cadillac station wagon.....what a travesty! Only good for Funeral Parlors, IMO.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Only good for Funeral Parlors, IMO.

    Well, hearses and ambulances were traditionally built on commercial chassis, and weren't staton wagons.

    Traditionally, this would've gone to Buick. However, with their main competitors (MB,BMW,and Audi) building them, and with gas prices being what they are, it makes sense.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    If the CTS wagon had been available in 2007 (or expected by 2008) I would probably have bought it instead of the SRX. A Cadillac Estate body was available way back before WWII, so a Cadillac wagon is not a travesty at all.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The silhouette reminds me of the Saab wagon of which I have seen maybe two of since they were introduced. But it's not dull like the Saab, of course.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    It may sell, but I doubt it'll get big. Over the years wagons, no matter how cool just dont really make it in US. Take Dodge's Magnum for example, it got big for like, a year or 2, and then it tanked so deeply the company killed it last year.
    I wont be surprised if the wagon shares some panels with Saab. They look very similar in profile.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Appreciate your points but here's some news I find quite interesting. The Genesis got some money from GM and Toyota!

    GM & T buy Genesis

    Regards,
    OW
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I could be wrong - but 90% of the Magnums I saw were rentals, and 99% of the Magnums coming through the auction were rental returns. In private sales, was it ever really that big? And, having said that, I liked it. Liked how it drove, as do I the 300.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I would guess that the auction's have mostly rental and lease vehicles in them. But the wagon market in the US was taken over by the minivan. For those looking for something with family sized space, the minivan is better than a wagon or SUV. I think that the CTS wagon (a sports wagon with good handling) is not the wagon of old like the Chevy Impala wagon. I would expect the CTS wagon to have perhaps 10% of the Total CTS sales. Even so it should be profitable.

    The Magnum, with only a 3.5 V6 or the Hemi, was not quite what I would have liked. I was somewhat concerned about Chryslers quality too.

    I think what killed the wagon was that the kids of the 60's did not want a wagon, so the minivan took the market. The minivan was a good design though. And those who did not want a minivan bought SUVs. I think the wagon market was killed off by both the SUV and the minivan. Big vans were popular for a while too, but those people seemed to go for the monster sized motor home. Can't imagine why 8 MPG on diesel motor homes make any sense.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Still can't see this being a popular car, but what do I know? I still think the DTS is the best Cadillac made......
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yeah...resale for a 2006 DTS is as follows:

    Trade In: $20,819 - $25,034
    Private Party Sale $23,027 - $27,685
    Dealer Retail $24,692 - $29,685

    Looks like a real desirable/valuable example of a world-class luxury car for $42-$52K original price. . So, I'm shopping right now!

    I priced one for $27,989 with 21K miles after only 2 years! The dealer is giving away $500 worth of gas for this purchase.

    Seller's Notes: GPS/NAVIGATION!!! DTS IN BLACK WITH A MOON ROOF,FRONT AND REAR DUAL POWER HEATED LEATHER SEATS,17''CHROME WHEELS,ABS,FRONT AND SIDE AIR BAGS,4.6 NORTHSTAR V8,ON*STAR,POWER WINDOWS AND DOOR LOCKS,TILT WHEEL W/CRUISE CONTROL,STABILITRAK,XM-SATELLITE RADIO W/BOSE 6 DISC CD PLAYER AND 8 SPEAKER,TIRE PRESSURE MONITOR,REAR DEF,FOG LAMPS,KEYLESS ENTRY AND MORE. $500 Worth of gas with a purchase of any pre-owned vehicle. Contact us for details.

    Or should I get this one which is certified:

    Price:$29,990
    Mileage: 11,209
    Body Style: Sedan
    Exterior Color: Black
    Interior Color: Dk.Gray
    Stock #: 6U227883
    VIN: 1G6KD57Y86U227883

    Engine: 4.6L V8
    Transmission: AUTO 4SPD
    Drivetrain: FWD
    Doors: 4
    Wheelbase: 116"
    CARFAX 1-Owner Vehicle
    View Free Report
    Features: ABS, Adjustable Front Headrests, Air Conditioning: Dual Zone, Analog Clock, Audio Controls On Steering Wheel, Body-Colored Bumpers, Center Console, Daytime Running Lights... Show additional features
    Seller's Notes: NAVIGATION,LUXURY II PKG, HEATED SEATS, SUNROOF,CHROME WHEELS,JUST TO NAME SOME OF THE MANY FEATURES IN THIS CAR. Part of the joy of driving your pre-owned vehicle is the dealership you choose. The other half is buying a certified pre-owned Cadillac.Your Certified Pre-Owned Cadillac comes to you in impeccable condition, having been thoroughly inspected by trained technicians using a checklist of over 110 quality points as a guide. You can enjoy your Cadillac with complete peace of mind, because it also comes standard with a comprehensive Cadillac bumper-to-bumper limited warranty. Call us at 1 FOR THE MONTH OF AUGUST ALL PRE-OWNED VEHICLES SOLD AND DELIVERED WILL RECEIVE A COUPON FOR 25% OFF OF YOUR FIRST LUBE OIL AND FILTER AT OUR DEALERSHIP!!! MUST PRESENT THIS OFFER AT TIME OF SALE. ONE PER CUSTOMER!!!!


    I can't choose... :confuse:

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Personally, I'd go for the second one.

    The Luxury II package is the lower-midrange DTS. In ascending order it is:

    DTS V-8
    Luxury I
    Luxury II
    Luxury III
    Performance

    I certainly can't complain about my Cadillac DTS Performance. You really get a lot for the money. You also pay a lot less up front than many other comparable cars. You'd have to go all the way up to a S-Class Mercedes, 7-Series BMW, or Lexus LS to get a car as big as the DTS and with the same features and you're already way north of $70K.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    For 2006 the line up was:
    Lux I; lux II; lux III and performance.
    beginning with 2007 the lux III was dropped and the base model was DTS. Then the lux I package was an upgrade, with the lux II probably the same as the old lux III.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    You'd have to go all the way up to a S-Class Mercedes, 7-Series BMW, or Lexus LS to get a car as big as the DTS

    Or the Hyundai VI/Equus/whatever-they-decide-to-call-it-here. The biggest problem with Cadillac moving down to the entry-lux segment is that there are more than a few upward-climbing brands they'll have to fight with there.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Looking at cars.com for Mercedes S-class I found 3 2006 S600's that averaged about $60,000. The replacement cost (without options) is $145,000.... :sick:
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The FWD DTS will not be around much longer. Not sure what they will do though, perhaps rebadge the G8.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The curse of highline depreciation combined with previous-generation depreciation.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The real problem is that anyone with that kind of money (S-class) to spend on a car would want a new one. This is also Cadillac's problem. For the price of a used DTS, one can buy a new Buick.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Exactly ,and the people who can afford to buy them new always want the latest thing, so after a couple years there are plenty of late model examples on the market. Supply and demand then makes the cars lose money like there's no tomorrow.

    Looking at how Buicks depreciate, those are just the same investment as the Caddy or highline MB.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Well, the CTS and the G8 are basically the same sort of car already, and the CTS is rumored to share the same platform the next time around.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    So, the '06 S600 is a steal!

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The CTS's sigma platform was developed by Holden's engineers I think. However, the G8's platform is newer, and I think better. The G8 is not as expensive as the Cadillac's, so I would guess that some costs have been taken out of the suspension refinements. Supposedly the Camaro is built on the global RWD platform which is supposed to be the DTS's next generation platform.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Possibly, but then you can probably buy a newer E-class for less.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Most cars depreciate frightfully from the moment that you sign on the line. There have been a very few execptions. For a while there (and maybe even now) you might have been able to sell a nearly new Prius for more than you paid for it.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Agreed,,,the Civics and Corollas are a robbery at recent late model used values. Better to go new with the hyper mile cars! Better to buy a used DTS and invest in the gas!

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Over the years wagons, no matter how cool just dont really make it in US.

    The CTS was not developed for the US. The MB wagons do not sell well here either. However they do in Europe and elsewhere and that is why Cadillac has it.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The Genesis got some money from GM and Toyota!

    First time I read it I thought it said they bought 800!!

    GM has a fleet of competitor models for comparison drives and a tear down warehouse where every part is weighed and displayed for perusal.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I wish they would tear down the 3-series and copy the steering and suspension to their entire line-up! :cry:

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I think that the CTS's suspension is better than the 3-series. The difference in handling is that the 3-series is smaller and more nimble. The 3-series also gets lower profile tires. The CTS is a somewhat different car than a BMW, so what you need to do is decide what you really want. The power steering is a different matter. GM's power steering has always been poor on feedback.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The numb feel is a big downer for performance desire. While the suspension is one thing the combination steering/suspension is the golden zone that CTS can not match even compared to the 5-er.

    I am not beating up the CTS...after all, GM has to start somewhere and the CTS is a great start. Now make it become an extension of your mind and there you have it!

    Sans edginess, I would be in one. The G is more inviting to me as 3-series alternate, however.

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The 5-series suspension goes beyond the 3-series in refinement. The cost of the 5-series is also way beyond what the 3-series or CTS costs too. Since I have not driven a BMW, Mercedes or whatever, I am not sure what sort of feel one can get with other power steering designs. However, I know that the car magazines comment on this.

    BMW's primary design goal is to make their vehicles the best for ride and handling. GM is trying to build vehicles for everyone. When you try to build vehicles that most everyone will want, some compromises creep in. Cadillac is either going to have to focus on being the best sports sedan ever, or they have to be the best luxury cars. Mercedes does not have the best sports sedans, but Mercedes does have some odd vehicles that are very good. I think Mercedes has out done BMW's M cars.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    If you want a Driver's car, get the BMW.
    If you want a Luxury car, get the Lexus.
    If you want a cheap luxury car, get a Hyundai Genesis.
    If you want an American near Sport Car, get the CTS.
    If you want an American near Luxury car, get the DTS.
    CTS = Acura RL
    If you want it all, get the Mercedes.

    That's just how I see it, YMMV.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles