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The car is still fantastic and makes all US cars a sad second best AT best. Caddy for sure.
Regards,
OW
For 2009, the RWD M35 & M45 will get a 7-speed transmission. The AWD models will continue to ship with the older 5-speed, although I imagine that this will change as production of the 7-speed ramps up.
If I ran BMW's North American operation, I would lose sleep over Infiniti. The G & M cars just keep getting better. Unless you're a stick-shift bigot, like me, I'm not sure that there's a good reason to choose a BMW over its Infiniti counterpart. (This is coming from a longtime 3-series owner.)
Regards,
OW
Caddy has some nice cars...just not the best.
Regards,
OW
The CTS is as big as the 5 series, yet is $12K cheaper, while your Bimmer is 1/2 inch SHORTER than a Corolla.
Your car SHOULD handle better; it's SMALLER!!!
A 5 series SHOULD be better quality than the CTS, as you could buy a Fit or Aveo with the price difference!!
If the CTS is being touted as close, but not quite, when comparing to the 3's sportiness or a 5's luxuriousness, then it is BMW who should be asking how they get that close w/ a car that "cheap" and big.
Also, did it ever occur to you that the CTS' true mission is to be 3 series "like", yet still hold true to Cadillac (and American) tradition???
Remember, the 3 is "mid-sized" by Euro standards, while the CTS is "small" by American standards.
I think that you missed my point. The Infiniti (not "Infinity") M is more than an alternative to the Caddy. It's a value-priced alternative to the 5-series. From a marketing perspective, it's more of a threat to BMW than it is to Cadillac.
The new V is an example of what can be done if the car does not break over time. We will see.
The intenet of all this is to make Cadillac the best. It's not there yet and hopefully will make it. When you make the best, they sell themselves.
The data shows otherwise.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063
While I cannot get individual model data Cadillac is above industry average while BMW is below. :surprise:
The question is if the CTS is better than CAddy average (it is) and whether the 5 series is above or below BMW average (do not have data)
"The 5-series should be better than the CTS for the extra cost."
That says it all. THAT"S what you are not getting.
Regards,
OW
CTS vs. 3series, the ultimate comparison, again???? Yeah it just never ends.
For those who complain about Cadillac being inferior to BMW, or vice versa, its a matter of personal taste!!!!
Fact is noone, even those with brief test drives, can deny the fact that the BMW's steering is far more communicative.
"Why you continue to bring up the CTS' "shortcomings" as compared to your 3 series just because they are the same price is beyond me.
The CTS is as big as the 5 series, yet is $12K cheaper, while your Bimmer is 1/2 inch SHORTER than a Corolla.
Your car SHOULD handle better; it's SMALLER!!! "
Heres the problem: Cadillac position the CTS to COMPETE WITH BMW 3-SERIES, NOT 5!!!!! I understand, logically the CTS doesnt belong in the compact luxo car, but thats exactly how Cadillac place the CTS. What can we say??? Cadillac made the choice, customers like us just react accordingly.
Please remember GM brags that CTS' handling is on equal footing with bmw's 3series. But when compared what happens? The CTS fell apart. On the other hand, the CTS does have softer, plush ride that's more comfortable than BMW's. Now if you still have doubts, think about this: the Infiniti G35 is ALMOST AS LARGE as CTS, also positioned to challenge the 3, yet the handling nearly matches BMW's. Does the Cadi come anywhere close? I'd say no. If anyone argue that CTS should be compared to the 5er, then why is the G capable of matching the smaller BMW? Infiniti nailed the target, Cadillac failed. No excuses....
Here's my take on the 3 cars (yes, I have test driven all 3):
1) Performance/handling: BMW tops, G35 very close 2nd, CTS trails. The CTS steering is slow to react when compared to the other 2. However I admit the gap is narrowed significantly now.
2) Ride comfort: Cadillac is best, BMW a bit distant 2nd, G35 worst by far. While the soft suspension isnt necessarily good for agressive driving, I love the CTS' ride on long trips (I did rent one for a 300 mile trip for 3 days)
3) Standard features: Infiniti tops, Cadillac 2nd, BMW worst by a million years. BMWs come stripped down in base form, its a pity that Cadillac lean towards BMW than Infiniti-Acura-Lexus, choosing to make many features optional. GM charge extra cost for paints? None of the japanese charge that, and no, not even BMW should get away with that.
4) Interior quality: BMW still best (though barely), CTS a very very close 2nd, G35 trails. I still think there's too much cheap plastic inside the CTS at this price, frankly I wont complain at all if GM charges CTS at Infiniti price. That said, bmw, while victorious in comparison, still feel rather cheap for the price.
5) Pricing: Infiniti kills all the others, CTS trails, BMW trails even more. A nicely loaded G35 cost about 36k, an equally equipped CTS will cost 4-5k more, and an equivalent 335 will burn your wallet for 44k.
-I admit I'm not familiar with CTS' reliability, so I'm skipping that part to be fair.
And before any of you ask, yes I like BMWs, used to own one, but I'm not defending BMW. I actually find Infiniti the best deal of the 3 at the moment. Now how do you decide which is best? You cant. Each has his/her own preference, making the term "best/better" just as subjective as it can be.
One more thing, can we stop calling names?? Its kinda immature you know? .... thanks, and peace, guys.
Regards,
OW
Cadillac only charges extra for specialty paint. They have to go thru the paint cycle 1 or 2 more times depending on whether it is tintcoat or tricoat so it cost a bit more. It also requires more paint line capacity. The paint is a bunch more expensive too. I see they charge $995. And now they are offering a Chromaflair color.
5 years ago Lexus did charge for the tint coats and tricoats but in looking at their website they no longer do.
BMW 3 charges $550 just for metallic which is no cost at Cadillac and Lexus. But they do not charge on the 5 or 7. They do not offer a tricoat or tintcoat.
I see a lot of tricoat whites and red tint coats on GM high line vehicles so they are making a good profit on a desirable feature. Neighbor just picked up a white tricoat Enclave. Was driving a Lucerne with the same color.
So I don't think that the CTS's handling "fell apart" as you stated. What I think is true is that all of the "sports sedans" have tire/suspension tuning that is different and there are trade-offs that will make one better than another in certain comparisions. Better handling will ususally mean a rougher ride, but on real road conditions which is best is probably not black and white. Road & Track seemed to feel that the CTS would be a much better car for a long trip, while the G35 was probably better for zipping through switchbacks.
Regards,
OW
I think with respect to the Road & Track comparison test that you are completely misinterpreting what Road & Track said (and I doubt that you have bothered to read the magazine anyway).
Since you seem to value performace above all, why did you not buy something better than the 3-series? The 1-series surely outperforms it!
WOW, does that mean the SRX outhandles the CTS and 3 series? I mean it must for C&D to rate it above them. Or was the 3 series rated #1.
Car & Driver did not get the 20 inch sport package that I have either.
Regards,
OW
But I need a sedan...any ideas? For example, nothing beats the 3-series for a family sedan manufactured by the US Auto manufactures. Perhaps after they get their low cost loans for car development, that might change but for now, I'm not buying.
Shares of General Motors Corp. rose 11.6% Thursday after a Wall Street analyst said a $25-billion government loan package for the auto industry would "notably reduce bankruptcy risk" for the automaker.
$6B Bailout
Regards,
OW
The 3-series is the sedan in comparo with CTS. I might have sacrificed the 2 doors after driving this in 2008 but since it wasn't available back in 2005 when I got the 330xi, the point is really moot. In 2005, CTS wasn't even on my radar screen. So far, the style today is better as well as the performance so at least it would be an alternative but for the price. Also, the design is not that appealing to me but much improved. The future coupe would make me change my mind!!
Today, I am giving the 1-series a real lot of consideration. There is nothing comparable at Caddy today but I think they are working on a smaller Caddy. Hope they don't copy the Catera and use the 1-series as a bench mark.
Regards,
OW
On straight line track, yeah I agree. But the car is too heavy for sharp handling on curvy roads. There are quite a few of those here, mostly owned by college kids. I drove one, albeit only for about 10 mins or so, but it was enough to feel the car's mass overwhelming the steering.
CTS' steering is good, but next to the G and 3 they fell apart from my personal opinion. This not to say I hate the car, in fact the contrary applies if I'm looking for ride comfort, one thing CTS excels in that neither the G or the 3 can match.
Like I said, preference.
Uh, sure, but the Japanese dont need double or tricoat paints to look good. Park the 3, G, and CTS in black next to each other, and you'll notice that the CTS' color fade where others shine. Why black? it's the most neutral base color. I saw this months ago at the local Cadi dealer where an 08 CTS was parked next to a used 07 G35, both black. How do you explain that? I was baffled myself.
"R/T comparison rated CTS only slightly behind the G and 5series, which cost 12k more"
Uh, one question, why the 5? GM wants CTS to compete with the 3. If the 5 is the rival, then the STS and M must step up for the challenge. Is it because of size? If so you're basically saying that the STS should be compared to the likes of S-class and 750. Oh and along with Chrysler 300c too. GM doesnt make CTS larger to fight the 5er, GM makes it larger because they want the size to be an asset in the competition!!!
Also please remember that compared to the current value leaders in the 50k class, the Infiniti M and Audi A6, the CTS holds even weaker cards.
Question: pricewise, do you really think the CTS is a value player in its class??? At $40-41k for a CTS versus $36-37k for a comparably equipped G35, I dont think so.
I've said this before, the only major problem I have with the CTS is price. GM is getting way overconfident in this matter. Overpricing is not the proper way to crawl back to the top. Were it priced close to the G's 36k it'll be a great value, and all its shortcomings can be overlooked.
Perhaps it is useful to point out that the turbocharged 6 in the 5-series matches the performance of the 5-series V8. The turbo 6 has 300 lb-ft of torque from 1400 RPMs to 5000 RPMs. This gives any car with this engine a lot of torque, and performance will be quite good and hard to beat with a normal engine of any size.
Plus I want to see more reasonable pricing, thats for sure. But I agree though, a moderately equipped CTS is an ok deal.
Someone wrote here about the Bimmer being "Sport/Luxury" instead of "Luxury/Sport". Maybe the CTS is trying to be the "Luxury/Sport" car that is a little more sporty than usual.
The thing is, if you like to drive, the only tool Caddy had was the STS and NOW the CTS. Let's see what their small entrant will be. Hope it can BEAT the 3'er!
Regards,
OW
This is a subjective concept. For some people the DTS is now the ultimate car. I don't think Cadillac should try to build a car that is better than some BMW, but should instead build cars that together form a line up of vehicles that customers will want to buy. Trying to take BMW customers away from BMW is a waste. You, for example, are not likely to every buy anything else. You can say that you would, but your posts suggest to me that is as likely as lemko is to buy a BMW.
IT SURE IS, BROTHER!!!
I once got a DeVille "special edition???" (whatever it means, theyre the same right?), chauffeur included during my business trip to Boston (which was a relief as I knew absolutely nothing about Boston). The ride was smooth, so smooth I could fall asleep inside the car. I had a ride in a Towncar too (I think it was in Miami), smoother riding imo, but when turning the car leaned more than the cadi and the effect was somewhat nauseating. If I have to live through hellish traffic like those in NYC or Boston, I might settle for the matress on wheels too.
I found driving in NYC about the same, except you do have to yield and pedal to the metal at all times.
PRECISELY my point. And I'm one of them. These days, though I'm normally a free market guy, I think it's important to drive American if possible, and so I'm looking at Cadillacs and Lincolns to potentially replace my Lexus sometime in the next 11 months. Tried out an STS the other weekend.....was woefully disappointed, mostly due to the size, or lack thereof. I NEED a large sedan for business, and I LIKE a large car and mileage is secondary for me. The STS misses the mark by a mile. Presently, the DTS is the only possibility for me in the Cadillac stable, and the CTS is really off the mark. Course, that's just me.
NYC: Stop light drag races, indeed...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Regards,
OW
The kompressor AMG cars are depreciating as a whole by maybe 1K/month now...I suspect by the end of next year an 06 CLS55 will be able to be had for under 40K, especially with the upcoming facelift and the the 55 kompressor being discontinued.