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You just made my point for me - after Oldsmobile killed off "your father's Oldsmobile, which was GM's best seller after Chevrolet - half of those customers who didn't want an Alero, they wanted a Cutlass, went to Buick and bought a Regal or Century, the other half went to Mercury to replace their Delta 88 with a Grand Marquis. Buick sales skyrocketed when Olds changed. Then, in GM's infinite wisdom decides to kill the Park Avenue, LeSabre, Regal & Century, give us all new models, that are nothing like the olds ones that were selling so well. I know the old ones were horribly dated, but horribly dated geezers loved 'em, and you know what, old folks do die off every year, but, WE MAKE MORE EVERY DAY TOO!!!
I am just saying, someone has to build cars for the fogeys - and if GM keeps trying to lower their buyer's age, they may singlehandedly resurrect Lincoln inadvertantly - they've done it before.....
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Just my opinion. I believe the new Lacrosse will not change sales significantly.
Regards,
OW
Yes the Regal and Century were long in the tooth but they were not selling well. #1 they were hugely rental fleet and 2nd we were giving the retail Centurys away. You could actually get a Century with a base price of $19,995 and with incentives under $17k,
The new LaCrosse on the other hand starts at around $26k and you lose a lot of the market when you increase the price almost $8k.
Yes someone will want to meet the needs of the older market but you cannot do what Buick was doing. Every year the average buick buyer age went up one year and volumes went down. You just cannot allow that to continue. And as someone else said the new older people (me included) are not so restricted on what they buy. Not many (new older folls) want the Park Avenue type of vehicle.
Anyway Buick is not trying not to significantly drop their median age, just want to get back to an age with some volume and keep it from increasing 1 year every year. I do agree they should have kept their old names on the replacement models but I do say they have to keep the average from rising.
I keep going back to what works and received significant development under the same name that became an iconic brand. Discontinued was the cost cutting mantra over the past few decades. What was lost along Madison Avenue over the years is quite apparent in Detroit today.
Regards,
OW
Keeping the names Camry, Accord, Civic, Corolla, etc. and simply improving the car seems to work for Hondota. Or is it Toyonda?
EDIT: Marsha, Marsha, Marsha. I posted before reading your clairvoyant (as you read my mind before I even read here and posted) post!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The term G6-8 BLS, STS, sounds too technical and less emotional, not to mention having no long term reputation at all.
Nice marketing plan on the way to the basement over the years, don't you think?
Regards,
OW
Right now I would say the products that could be considered boring at GM are pretty close to the end of their lifecycles: Aveo, Cobalt, Impala, Trailblazer, G5, G6(I guess I think this one still has a lot of exterior style to it), LaCrosse. Everything else looks pretty up to date for their segments. And I guess we would have to look at the definition of boring since it would be different for each person and each segment.
The Fit is pretty hot right now and the Aveo / Yaris are darn "boring". The Civic is hot and the Cobalt/Corolla are pretty mundane. Cobalt looks nice but just not a lot of excitement. Malibu is pretty much at the top of the class for midsize volume cars. In large cars there is the Lucerne vs. the soon to be gone Avalon.
The Avalon is going away? I like the Cobalt coupe, but the sedan is nondescript.
Regards,
OW
http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/hyundai/genesis/2009_hyundai_genesis/20- 09_hyundai_genesis_4_6_road_test+type-reviews_by_make+mode-collection+id-269.htm- l
Secondly, $33k gets you a V-6, and a fully optioned one like the one tested by them will run you $43K!!!!
A V-8 Lucerne (which, by the way, is outselling the Avalon) bases at $30K. Yes, the platform is dated, and yes, it's FWD and not RWD, but it's just as big, and luxurious.
Hyundai will have to discount them deeply just to get in Buick's price range, as a base Lucerne V-6 can be had for as little as $24K and change.
Yeah, they're gonna replace it with a "CamryXL" (an extended Camry platform) probably keeping the Camry name on it so they can say they sold even MORE Camry's
BMW 44.0%
Mercedes-Benz 41.2%
Cadillac 37.3%
Porsche 36.9%
Acura 29.3%
Lincoln 28.2%
Audi 22.7%
Infiniti 20.7%
Volvo 20.0%
HUMMER 16.8%
Land Rover 15.6%
Jaguar 14.2%
Saab 8.8%
Leftlane: “Up until now the popular rumors has been the DTS and STS will be replaced by a single new model. More recently there have been rumors about that project being on hold. Does Cadillac still need a large model above the CTS?”
Mr. Lutz: “Let me just say that it is in the realm of specific new model information that we haven’t really talked about yet, but generally as we look at our entire portfolio, there is a tendency to reduce investment in engineering on large rear-wheel-drive entries in favor of lighter weight and much more fuel efficient cars.”
While the top executive’s comments don’t provide a definitive answer, it’s clear even a luxury brand like Cadillac is adapt to tough economic times.
Again, my apologies
Now I tell the truth for a living. A good living. I get big checks to write this garbage. Big enough that I can buy any car I want. OK, that's a stretch. The Mechanic cannot afford a Rolls or a Bugatti, but I've got money to spend. And I've got good taste. I'm also college-educated. Literate. And I appreciate the best. When I spend my money I spend it on quality goods. And the car I choose to be seen in must be a quality item. The finest of its kind.
In other words, I would not buy an American car. It's hard for me to even type that. Fact is, I'd like to buy an American car, a great American car. It just doesn't exist.
This only occurred to me recently, when my father, The Mechanic Sr., asked me what car I would buy if I could buy anything. I realized there wasn't an American car or truck on the list. Not one I lusted after.
Oh sure, the latest batch of goods from Eminem's hometown is worth a look; the Cadillac CTS is strong, the Buick Enclave is very good and the Pontiac G8 GT is a fine machine. I can also say good things about the Dodge Challenger SRT8, the Ford Flex and the Chevy Malibu. I also think the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 is pretty cool. And then there's the Corvette, which is likable in Z06 form and downright desirable in ZR1 trim. They're all good cars and trucks; they're just not the best.
And I said I want the best. The very best. And for the best you simply don't shop in Dearborn, Auburn Hills or Detroit's Renaissance Center.
Shame, really. But the facts are the facts. The bar keeps moving and Ford, Chrysler and General Motors are forever in catch-up mode. Have been since the first muscle car era became the first energy crisis. Hate to be the one to say it out loud, but Detroit remains a lap down.
Sure I'm kicking it when it's bleeding all over the floor. With full force and a pointy boot. But this is why it's down. Eventually, not making the best catches up with you.
Now your panties are in a big ball of a bunch, aren't they? Well, before you fire off some half-witted comment, keep reading. I'm about to cite examples.
For example: the new Corvette ZR1. 638 hp. Fastest, most powerful car in GM's 100-year history. Yawn. The new Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series packs 670 hp. It also looks like it costs six figures (the ZR1 is just a Z06 with a window cut in its hood) and doesn't pack a Wal-Mart interior.
I know, I know. The ZR1 is $100,000 while the SL65 Black Series will be more than twice that. So what? The Benz is still the best.
Screw price. I'm dog tired of giving GM and the rest of Detroit that out. Their cars are almost always cheaper and usually bigger. That's their game. They can't make it better, so they make it cheaper and bigger. Kinda like Costco. You get 500 rolls of the world's roughest toilet paper for $1. Your [non-permissible content removed] is killing you, but there's no arguing the value. (Ironically, the Germans make fine automobiles but produce the world's roughest TP.)
It worked for the Corvette Z06. "As fast as exotics for less than half the price," said the ad copy. But now the world has the Nissan GT-R. It costs about the same as the Z06, but delivers more speed, a better interior, more features and more technology. Don't even get me started on build quality. Without a doubt, the GT-R is the best high-performance car you can buy for $80,000.
See, the bar keeps moving and Detroit's a lap down.
I could go on with specific examples, but it's easier to just make a blanket statement: No American car, from the lowly Ford Focus to the mighty ZR1, is truly the best car in its segment in the world. Not one. The biggest of big pickup trucks being the exception and that's only because they're still the only game in town for dually diesels. Honda and BMW don't make those.
Sad, really. And it's not something Detroit wants to hear. They read the praise in the press and they believe their own PR. Cadillac really thinks the CTS is as good or better than anything in the world. Better than a BMW 5 Series. Better than a Mercedes E-Class. Sorry, guys. It's closer than you've ever been, but it's still a lap behind.
And if the members of the automotive press actually voted with their dollars instead of writing with their hearts, they would all be driving something from Japan or Germany. Well, the smart ones would anyway. The ones who don't live in Detroit. -- The Mechanic, Inside Line Contributor
Regards,
OW
Again there is no best in class in any segment. That is because there are so many buyers out there that they all have different needs and desires. Take the midsize sedan segment. Is it Camry or Accord? Which is the segment leader. I guess you could say it could be granted by volume. So Camry is the winner. I think a lot of Accord buyers would say no way the best in class, it has a mushy ride. So volume does not work I guess because if it did we would have to say GM is best in overall vehicles because they sell many more vehicles here in the US than anyone. But many would not agree with that. In fact many, both buyers and press, would say the Malibu is best in class for many reasons, styling, gas mileage, ride, but it all depends on what you think. C&D would say Accord. The family press would say Camry.
So the opinions vary on what is "best". In my book the Lambdas are best in class in full size CUV/SUV's. Best gas mileage, best looking, but yet not really best in class. Full size SUV's have higher towing capcity, whoops.
IF there was a truly best in class in any segment then they would get 100% of the sales. No best in class is a real impossible concept.
Both Japanese and Germans (and now even Koreans) have culture of excellence in in their car building businesses - they are different, but they are indisputable. While Americans do have such cultures in other segments of their economy or social life (sports would probably be best example), their automotive business has no culture of excellence.
I said it before - when I look at Jetta or Civic, I see car that was designed by an engineer and approved by an executive with their daughters in their minds. When I look at Cobalt I picture an exec telling engineer "you won't be driving it anyway and my daughter is taking a limo tomorrow, so why care?" If people in charge cannot picture themselves or their close ones using the product they are designing, there is no help.
To finish the rant - Detroit, ESPECIALLY GM, is putting out products that would beat their competition from time they started designing them, not the time they are available to be purchased. Always looking at that Corolla/Camry from five years ago, not the one that will hit showrooms two years from now. That's the mentioned "lap down".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Wake me up when ANY US car beats the engineering of this package and I will bite again. Sadly, I have a long wait.
Put simply, make cars that blow away the rest of the world like the military equipment. Please!
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Sorry!
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
In driving our sporty blue 135i, the questions I heard a little too
often were, “How much for the car?” and “Thirty-seven what?!” ($35k base)
If the BMW in question is equipped, as it should be, with a stick, then I agree wholeheartedly. The stick in the CTS is an afterthought, although the manual transmission in the new CTS-V is reputed to be much better.
But saddle that BMW with an automatic, & you've really diluted the driving experience & narrowed BMW's lead - particularly when you consider Cadillac's cost advantage.
A stick 3-series with the sport package is the gold standard of sports sedans. An automatic 3 series is...sort of pathetic. Sorry, but I just don't see the point.
Regards,
OW
MB = luxury sport
Some of the market does appreciate the comfort. The sport fiends can buy AMG models.
Yes, but you would have a completely different car too. Better handling, less comfortable, less reliable, much more fun to drive.
Correct. Merc blows away Caddy also. Better than BMW, perhaps.
Regards,
OW
Yes, but you would have a completely different car too. Better handling, less comfortable, less reliable, much more fun to drive.
Yea and out a down payment on a house.
My suggestion, though, is that you be a man & just say no to slush. You'll have more fun & you'll feel better about yourself.
Do you just make this stuff up to make your point? Or do you really believe it? The only possible negative is that the steering may be a little light. I see no "shaming" by BMW. Yes BMW test by Edmunds says it is a better car in the handing department but surely no shame.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=101188
An endless stream of corners through the trees proves the accuracy of the CTS's steering. Directional changes are suitably quick, yet the rear end of the CTS never slews off line. At the limit, the CTS hints at understeer, but the car responds willingly to a lift of the throttle for midcorner course corrections.
But for track work, the steering effort still feels a little light, probably a legacy of Cadillac's past preference for low-effort refinement rather than high-speed precision.
Three driver-adjustable settings for the stability control (Normal, Competitive and Off) are available to suit either your mood or skill level. Competitive mode proved just fine for on-track hustling, and it only intruded when we drove the racing line around the famously banked ditch at the Carousel.
This thing is fun. The CTS lives up to everything you expect from a car developed at the Nürburgring. It's so good, we're thinking the chassis can handle much more power. It'll get it, too, when the 500-horsepower CTS-V debuts for 2009.
"However, the slow-witted lifeless steering ruins the fun for the driver, and the ride jiggles and jolts too much at anything less than motorway speed".
They also didn't care for the transmission and they claim the engines need to be revved too much for something their size, to deliver power. They also say the driving position is not up to snuff with the competition But they do have much positive to say about most of the interior, and the loads of standard equipment (BMW and the like exist in very basic base forms in Europe). They also do say the car has a lot of grip and doesn't have as much roll as the typical American car.
The summary: "Has a certain charm, but the Germans won't be losing sleep"