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http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/gm_intake_manifold.html
I think it is actually a problem with the coolant passage by the throttle body that is screwing up those intakes. Plenty of cars have that plastic, it is a polymer by Dupont called Zytel, intakes and have not had problems.
It is not a problem with the engine itself just those few years that have the bad plastic manifolds. The ones with the metal ones do fine and some years with the plastic are ok.
I don't usually shop sedans, but I'll be buying a four-seater this summer due to a lease end (and my other car is an impractical mid-engined two-seater) and there's no way I'm spending 3 years driving something with that much plastic/fake wood, and gauges out of a Grand Am. The worst part is that having owned a BMW I know that when I go to drive these cars I'll fall for the BMW six over whatever engine Cadillac offers.
And the DTS is still a retirement home cruiser. What has GM been doing for ten years? This thing is as ugly as the crap Monte Carlo I had to rent last year from Enterprise.
The only winner was the Cadillac XLR versus the hideous Lexus SC and the bloated BMW 6. If I wanted a cushy two-seater convertible, I'd give the XLR a real look. Yeah the depreciation is horrible, but Lexus doesn't know how to design a sports car, and BMW made a rare misstep. XLR is like a Corvette with some class - not a bad combination.
Back to the drawing board, GM.
I'm off to the Lexus and BMW dealers to buy something that won't embarrass me.
:sick:
Rocky
To Me BMW interiors aren't the most attractive, they of course use the best materials, but Cadillacs SRX, XLR and 07 Escalade interiors are top notch.
Even some Lincoln interiors are better looking than BMW's .... MKZ, MKX. thats just me
I think the 08 CTS is better looking inside & out compared to the BMWS.
My 1994 Cadillac DeVille had a 4.9 litre V-8 which was a pretty decent engine and hardly a slouch. It was rated at only 200 hp, but that baby was smooth as silk and had a lot of get-up-and-go. If you didn't watch it, you'd be cruising at 100 mph on the turnpike.
I agree that the 3800 is an excellent engine no matter what generation. It was good in my 1988 Buick Park Avenue and good in my girlfriend's 2005 Buick LaCrosse. The 3800 did get off to a bad start back in the day and went through a questionable period in the 1990s with that plastic intake manifold.
Questions:
I've often thought of buying a used 1990s Park Avenue or LeSabre to replace my '88 someday, but I'm afraid of that intake manifold problem. How would I know if the problem was already dealt with in a car I'm considering? How frequent does the problem occur? How much would the repair cost and how long will it last before one would be once again be faced with the problem?
http://www.geocities.com/gm_intake/index.htm
I'd think once you replaced the intake gasket (or the engine, if the coolant has eaten into the bearings) you'd be fine for 60K-100K. This seems to be the deadly range.
Might be a smart move. I'm sure you could find these cars dirt cheap because of the reputation.
What a mess.
The gas mileage is even about the same as long as you don't floor it from every stop light. Just make sure you use premium fuel though as the SC motor does not like 87 or 89 octane.
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/
^^^ Is my old bonneville forum from when I owned my pontiac they are a good resource for information like what you are looking for.
Rocky
Rocky
I've often thought of buying a used 1990s Park Avenue or LeSabre to replace my '88 someday, but I'm afraid of that intake manifold problem.
How could the Northstar be so excellent with problems. Have had Honda and Nissan engines that were bullit-proof for many years, some up to and over 200k miles. That is what is excellent.
Forget all that GM stuff. Just get a recent 4-door 4-cyl Honda Accord LX with low miles and dealer certified. It will last you till 250k or 300k miles with minimum maintenance. And, the Accord is made by Americans in Ohio. You will then for sure be driving the "world standard". If you want to get a more recent Honda in later years, you will still get a good buck on resale.
On Caddy, there was an article in newspaper recently that Chinese like big Caddies. Wonder if Chinese tastes will inflence Caddy offerings and designs in US.
You got to be joking, right ?
Rocky
You got to be joking, right ?
Rocky
Honda Accord is a world standard in its market category/price range for about last 20 years. One measure of a world standard is that other car manufacturers try to emulate or copy Honda Accord attributes. In comparison, not aware that any car manufacturer such as BMW or Mercedes trys to copy anything about Cadillac.
Another example of world standard is BMW 3 series. Many manufacturers try to emulate and then compete with it. Some get close, but they still can't match nor beat it.
Are you sure the Honda Accord hasn't been trying to copy the Toyota Camry ??? Last I checked it was still the #1 selling car...... :confuse:
In comparison, not aware that any car manufacturer such as BMW or Mercedes trys to copy anything about Cadillac.
Ummmmm, one could make a arguement that Mercedes and even more so Lincoln/Ford tried to Copy the GM full size SUV's.
Another example of world standard is BMW 3 series. Many manufacturers try to emulate and then compete with it. Some get close, but they still can't match nor beat it.
Well that is merely an opinion because plenty of buyers choose BMW 3 series alternatives in the ELLPS segment.
Rocky
The only thing that the Honda Accord sold in the US and Canada have in common with other Honda Accords is a name. The Acura TSX is badged as a Honda Accord in other markets, and includes a variety of engine choices and configurations not offered here. You can't claim that it is a world standard when we're the only ones buying the version that we have.
Ditto with the Camry, which is also unique to us. Both the US Accord and the Camry are designed to meet our tastes, and are not "world cars".
Another example of world standard is BMW 3 series.
That, on the other hand, is a fine example of a benchmark. Others do try to emulate it, and they never quite get there. They may equal it in some categories, but not overall.
That, on the other hand, is a fine example of a benchmark. Others do try to emulate it, and they never quite get there. They may equal it in some categories, but not overall.
I've never understood all the hype behind the BMW 3 series ?????? I can find plenty of car that look better, out perform, out luxury the BMW 3 series. I think to many people read car magazines. I'm not saying it's not a great car but my god it's the one car americans do worship and i can't put my finger on it to as why ? :confuse:
Rocky
I was also fortunate enough to drive a 2005 M3. That car is an animal.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And then there are the transmissions...
Rocky
OMG I'm not the only person left......
Rocky
Rocky
The early Northstar's problem doesn't affect the car's drivability; it's just an inconvenience to check the oil level. The Northstar does take 8 qts. of oil vs. the usual five. The problem with the lower crankcase seal has been resolved with a new design.
People who are so quick to condemn the Northstar forget the infamous sludging problem with the Camry's V-6 - an exponentially more serious issue.
Camry V-6: Well that's the whole point. People DID forget about the sludge issue, but they didn't forget about the Northstar problems.
Reason? Either a worldwide conspiracy against Cadillac or (more likely) the Northstar defects affected more people.
Sorry. Don't understand the point you may be trying to make.
The Honda Accord is the World Standard. Caddy wishes it were for its segment.
Car and Driver and CR have bestowed many compliments on Accord over last couple decades. We have owned a few, we can confirm.
This is what Cadillac will have to do someday---not be the fastest or the prettiest or the quietest, but to be able to stand up to any car in its class and do everything very well, rather than a few things better. This often takes years of refinement of the same basic corporate design principles---that is, you can't be jumping all over the place.
And it does not have the favor abroad that it does here. Honda is very successful in North America, but enjoys less popularity abroad.
It is fair to say that the Accord is a benchmark in the US. But overseas, that's not the case. If anything, the standard bearer of smaller cars in Europe has long been the VW Golf (not the Jetta/ Bora, which was not that popular), and the pocket rocket favorite was the GTI.
My posts today talking about Honda, not Camry. Honda is an engine company and and "Engineering company". Can you say the same about GM? What the heck is GM? A marketeting company primarily - baseball, apple pie, hot dogs, unshaven guys loading/driving pickup trucks?
Arguably, the WORLD STANDARD in small engined, small semi-sporty cars maybe - but there are other flavors that some of us like. I have owned a Honda, and it went forever with no problems, and was not bad to drive either, but it's a tin can - possibly the best tin can, but tin nonetheless.
Did your brother buy Honda new or used? Did he do proper maintenance? Not aware of any Honda engine design faults. Honda very responsible about anything "they" screwed up on and will usualy fix under warranty or extended waranty. They "step up" and are responsible, which a lot of others weasel out of.
NOT TALKING ABOUT CAMRY. Conversation is about Honda as world standard, not Camry.
About MB being called the ultimate driving machine by rocky...nah. More like the ultimate high speed cruising machine. BMWs are for tracks. MBs are for autobahns.
Eggzactly, fintail - you nailed it. And I think they both do their thing the best. And Lexus probably aspires more toward the MB, don't you think?
1964 220SE, which is a later highline fintail (fuel injection, disc brakes, 4 speed auto). In mid 1965 this car would be replaced. These cars are virtually identical from model years 1960/61-65, with some carryover to 67/68.
Rocky. Tell us how many Honda/Acuras you have owned and total miles driven.
And to be on topic...I think Caddy should emulate Lexus/MB more than BMW. It's probably an easier mark to hit.
Big smooth inline 6 engine {Check}
Rear wheel drive {check}
Moderate luxury interior {check}
comfortable yet supportive seats {eehhh not really}
nearly telepathic steering feel (well no}
manual transmission (I think they imported a hundred or so)
The New IS does not impess me at all.
I haven't driven the new G35 but it might be the next near hit for the 3 series.
Wow!!! I guess that you are saying that Car and Driver, Road and Track, and Consumer Reports don't know what they are talking about.
Maybe if one is in the Twilight Zone or on some kind of drugs. Honda is ENGINEERING.