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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    Yeah the closest strike to the 3 series lately IMO was the original IS300.

    You talking about the big, smooth 198 hp engine in it?

    The new IS350 has 306hp. That doesn't 'impess' you?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    it's just an inconvenience to check the oil level.

    I don't know, I think checking under the hood every so often to make sure everything is ok and all the fluids are at good levels is something that should be done.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    No just saying for what they are charging you really are not getting a lot.

    As for CR if they told me the sky was blue I would check just to make sure.

    As for C&D and R & T they do have a bias for "European performance" sedans.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I haven't driven the new G35 but it might be the next near hit for the 3 series.

    I have. It's different than the Bimmer - but it's darn nice.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    it's not "bias", it's discrimination. Bias means you are deciding something with absolutely no good reason for doing so....like not hiring based on age, no matter who you are. Discrimination means you have a preference based on data that you think valid.

    Northstar engine---WELLLLLLL......I don't wish to beat on the Northstar, which is basically a good engine, but just for the historical record, it's not really one defect--it's "defects", and they are (or were) substantial to the max.

    Here's Larry Carley's take on it at any rate. He's tech editor for Babcox Publishing....which does all the books like "Engine Builder"....

    "As well-engineered as Northstar V8s are, like other engines they've had some problems. According to various sources, head gasket failures are not uncommon. Nor is oil burning or oil leaks."

    Here's the whole article (everything you've ever wanted to know about the Northstar. It's interesting...)

    http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us100232.htm

    My theory is that the Northstar wasn't assembled properly...that the "defects" were mostly in quality-control, not in engineering.

    Same old GM issues in other words.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Very good information on the Northstar. There was a lot of useful information on diagnosing any problems.

    I didn't see anything "significant" other than the issue I mentioned about the lower crankcase seal. Most problems affect the early engines. Only a negligent idiot would really adhere to those extended oil change intervals that cause the oil-burning/loss of pressure issue. I change my oil religiously.

    He said "head gasket failure is not uncommon." Well, what causes these head gasket failures? He didn't go into much detail other than describing the procedure to replace a head gasket. I have yet to hear of a head gasket failure happening to a Northstar.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I have yet to hear of a head gasket failure happening to a Northstar.

    Maybe it's your location, lemko - because in the south, it happens all the time. In fact, I got pretty good at predicting head gasket failure on some of my friends DeVilles for a while. Right around 70,000 miles usually. Then, to make it worse, if not done very carefully, your head bolts would break off in the block while trying to remove the head. On an aluminum engine, that's a real problem.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,181
    Because if they don't then I guess the answer is "no." And an award from (forgot the year) 1912? is nice for the trophy case, but it has no bearing whatsoever 90+ years later.

    IMHO, Caddys are simply GM products, which is not as big a black mark as it has been in the last 30 years or so, but to most is still a handicap. The Caddy division is trying to (re)establish a brand image, seemingly to me BMW being the target while still catering to the US credo of "Big Engine, Big HP Good!" The CTS, while (imho) ugly with a cheap, incongruous interior and overpriced (at msrp w/options), was a departure for the marque and got the ball rolling. At the autoshow, I sat in an '07 SRX, interior a BIG improvement (analog clock, nice!). STS, a bit dull in style but the interior isn't bad and from what I've read a nice ride. And I've always liked the XLR (except for, again a GM constant, the less than $77k car appearing interior...). So, I look forward to the next version of the "new" Caddy cars in that I hope that GM/Caddy stays the course and upgrades without unrealistically pricing them.

    Unfortunately, while past performance is no guarantee of future results, I still don't believe that GM's bean-counter culture will allow a "complete" car to be built. Thank you, Roger Smith...

    And, regarding Rockylee, I think y'all have to cut him some slack. He's admitted to drinking the GM Kool Aid and, most importantly, it sounds like GM has buttered his family's bread for quite some time...

    OTOH, Rockylee, you can't keep shouting about how magnificent future cars will be, destroying the competition. Sure, the '08 CTS may well be the car you truly hope it to be. But the next iteration BMW/MB/Acura/Lexus/Infiniti/Kia... could raise the mythical bar even further. All you can base your opinions and comparisons on, to be taken seriously, is fact/reality, which is not what the future is.

    So, could Caddy truly come back from the days of the Cimmarron and be held in the same esteem as the Euro marques? Hey, 2004 Boston Red Sox!!! Anything is possible!

    Oh, yeah. Go, Pats! Four of Six to cement the dynasty!

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    There was only one Dewar trophy for the "standard" category. Cadillac did win more than one Dewar Trophy. However, one point: Cadillac does still own the trophy and therefore is entitled to make as much of it as they wish.

    I don't think that the Cimarron was the worst thing that Cadillac ever did. The second oil crisis was in progress around 1980, and GM downsized everything thinking that better fuel economy would be good. The current oil situation was probably what GM had expected then. However, for Cadillac to think that the Cimarron was somehow a BMW 3-series shows that GM executives were thinking that the 3-series was just an expensive small car. I am not sure that GM really understands the "small car" market yet.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well said........ ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Owned one Acura, a 2005 and put on nearly 6K on it.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    NV,

    You are correct as I know people that had these problems.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well Rick Wagoner, is quite different than Roger Smith in terms of management. I think Rick, is a way way better CEO than Roger, because Rick seems to me more involved with the car side of the buisness than Roger. Roger, let bean counters crunch the numbers to often and ignored what the final product would look like after that crunch.

    One could say Roger, is the one to blame for GM's perception problem they have today. :mad:

    Rocky
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The misfortune of the Cimarron wasn't, I don't think, that it was a "bad car". That's not the issue. The issue was that GM devalued the brand by slapping the Cadillac name on a Chevrolet with leather seats and 40 lbs more sound-proofing. That was the killer. A Lexus is not (no matter what anyone says) a Camry with a different logo on it and an S Class Benz is not a C class with nicer dashboard.

    GROWING PAINS: All cars, and all new engines, can have growing pains. The problem is when the company doesn't respond fast enough to an issue that starts buzzing around the internet.

    GM is particularly lousy about clearing up teething problems on new models. Occasionally the Japanese will drag their feet, that is true, (Toyota sludge issue) but it seems like GM never takes charge of a situation---they just let it fester until there are owners marching in the streets with pitchforks and flaming torches, circulating petitions and laying seige to dealerships.

    It's a crazy way to do business. I don't get it with GM. Are they too much of a dinosaur to react quickly enough? Do they just not care? I dunno...it makes me crazy to see them shooting themselves in the foot with this attitude.

    Thankfully, no such disaster has befallen the new Cadillac. I'm holding my breath. Is this a new GM?

    We'll have to wait and see.
  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    You couldn't give me a car for free with that stupid I-Drive system. The I-Drive controller has to be one of the worst inventions in Automotive history.
    I don't need to go through 12 steps to turn up the air conditioner in a CTS.
    How about a button instead of having to play video games every time I want to change something.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    I'm not sure WHO to blame, but a lot of folks see it the way this Boston Globe op-ed does:

    What's bad about GM? The cars
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Man, if there was ever a case of technology run amok, iDrive is it.
  • pch101pch101 Member Posts: 582
    The misfortune of the Cimarron wasn't, I don't think, that it was a "bad car". That's not the issue. The issue was that GM devalued the brand by slapping the Cadillac name on a Chevrolet with leather seats and 40 lbs more sound-proofing. That was the killer.

    I'd say that it was both, but over the long haul, you are right that GM's worst mistake was the devaluation of the Cadillac brand.

    One thing that the bean counters don't seem to understand is that the difference between a basic car and a luxury car is not just a matter of options packages. A luxury car should also offer a greater degree of finesse and refinement, from the driving experience to the level of comfort to the quality of materials. The accounting types really seem to believe that the consumer is stupid and can be fooled with just a few trim pieces and a whole lot of marketing, and you would have thought that the last few decades would have taught them a lesson.

    The funny thing is that if anybody has mediocre marketing, it has got to be Toyota and Honda, which must set new standards for blandness for their advertising. The GM ads with Led Zeppelin and Iggy Pop soundtracks, and cars flying through the air are a fair bit more flashy than either "Moving Forward" or the annoying "Happy Honda-days" jingle that we seem to get each Christmas, but this hasn't seemed to hurt Toyota or Honda a bit.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Your story of Toyota's mediocre marketing reminds me that story about when people complained to Abraham Lincoln that General Grant was drinking heavily. Lincoln said: "Find out what he's drinking and give it to all my generals".
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Sounds like the oped contributor rented a low end car without power door locks and without good alignment maintenance by the rental company--to save money. The cars going to rental agencies should have all options that make life easier. Some will be critical of a car without the requisite power door locks--I sure would.

    I wonder if the contributor knows that most cars only have a driver's door key now--including the Accords!!!

    Mushy steering? I haven't had that on the last 7 GM cars. I get alignments! And I replace tires before they're bald. I don't ram curbs and hit potholes. His article reminds me of the test drive of an 03 Accord when I last was car shopping. Car had so many strange things.

    Too bad articles like his get into the papers about many types of businesses.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's not really fair to judge a company by a rental car.

    Having said that, I have to say that the '06 Malibu I rented was pretty awful except for the engine. It's certainly not a car I would consider buying. In that market niche at least, a Malibu is no match for a Toyota.

    It was better than walking however.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    imidazol97,

    See this is what I'm talking about a anti-GM guy makes the paper. The guy that had the G6 rental obviously had the lowest and stripped model you can own. We also don't know how abused that car has been as a rental ?????? My mother loves her G6 GTP and brags about how good it handles and how powerful it is. My stepdad, and aunts also have made positive remarks when they've asked her to drive it.

    I guarantee you and I could find a high mileage stripped camcord's that's been abused and have similar findings. :mad:

    It appears from the get go he didn't get the car model he wanted at the rental place and thus was peeved and was going to find things to gripe about.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Shifty, we all know you are a huge fan of toyota and they can walk on water in your eyes.

    I agree the 06' malibu, perhaps isn't as good as a camry but it's not a terrible product also. GM, appears to have raised the bar a few notches with the 2008' Malibu. I'm not saying it's going to overtake the camry as the sales leader but it will at least finally be a very respectable alternative. ;)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    That's the right analysis. I've had GM cars from 1977 on and haven't had anything described as difficult to drive like the op-ed guy. What's worse is when I tell that I've had good cars with few problems, I get called a GM excuser by someone who used to be on here and reappeared under a differenct user name! I haven't driven every GM car but I've certain picked ones that suited me and served well.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I get called a GM excuser by someone who used to be on here and reappeared under a differenct user name!

    What ?????? Is socala4 here under a different SN ?????

    If someone has changed their screen name and is the same person I haven't solved that mystery. I however have had my suspicions ;)

    Rocky
  • pch101pch101 Member Posts: 582
    Sounds like the oped contributor rented a low end car without power door locks and without good alignment maintenance by the rental company--to save money.

    This illustrates the core problem discussed above -- these Big 3 managers think that power locks and a CD player will solve all of their problems.

    They won't. I've driven my share of rental cars, and they pretty much all have power windows and locks, A/C, some sort of stereo with a CD player, etc. Overall, they tend to carry moderate levels of equipment, and are rarely stripped.

    The consumer expects more than a power door lock to find the car to be desirable. The noisy engines, overboosted steering, four-speed automatics that are outdated by current standards, and the cheap interiors are the real turn off, and adding a power windshield or power glovebox won't help.

    At the end of the day, it is up to the automakers to please the customer, not up to the customer to please the automaker. If they want our money, they have to earn it by giving us what we want.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    As I see it, the current Escalade is much better than the first, but one can see a lot of the Chevy Suburban in it. After all the Escalade is a Chevy Suburban.

    The Cimarron was a re-badged Chevy, but was upgraded. It certainly was not the car the Seville started out as. The Escalade is not the same sort of upgrade the Seville was either.

    The real point of the Cimarron was that GM and Cadillac felt that they needed a small fuel efficient Cadillac, and the easy quick way to get one was to re-badge a Cavalier. What I think is most troubling about both the Cimarron and the Catera is that GM executives thought both cars were BMW 3-series competition. The Catera was certainly a better try, but was more of a Lincoln LS V6 sort of car.

    The current CTS and STS suggest that someone at GM is beginning to understand...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I guess if you keep raising the bar and your competition keeps raising ITS bar, you don't get anywhere. :P
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    However, I do believe many americans would rather drive a american car and if GM, is able to get anywhere close they will lure some camcord buyers to their show room. I think GM, needs to reopen some of its Saturn dealerships to push those Aura'a and other new saturn products out the door and into the hands of customers. The Malibu, will make a fine appliance. It will tackle accord sales while the Aura, leans more torwards Camry sales. I do think it's very very important for GM, to put the 6-speed auto/ 4-cylinder car out on the market ASAP since that is where the sales volume is. ;)

    Rocky
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    I guess if you keep raising the bar and your competition keeps raising ITS bar, you don't get anywhere.

    They need a "breakthrough". But, is it possible without a paradigm shift. Would a shakeup of higher management from CEO on down help to change direction. Perhaps cannot teach old dogs new tricks. Any lessons to be learned from American companies that did turn it around such as Harley Davidson.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Is socala4 here under a different SN

    Wonder what happened to that guy. Hope nothing bad, as he would talk of driving very fast in his BMW. Maybe he quit the board after he discovered a Caddy XLR and got rid of his BMW.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Wonder what happened to that guy. Hope nothing bad, as he would talk of driving very fast in his BMW. Maybe he quit the board after he discovered a Caddy XLR and got rid of his BMW.

    Socala4, was a nice guy even though I often disagreed with him. I like I said in the past wished I new what happened to him. He was very enthusiastic while he was a member on this site. I do miss some of the veterans on this site. dieselone, rorr, hardly ever get on anymore. I guess I'm thankful not all of y'all left. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Maybe he quit the board after he discovered a Caddy XLR and got rid of his BMW.

    xrunner, you and I both know Socala4 would never be caught dead in a GM product. :P

    Rocky
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Now let me state that I don't necessarily agree with what this guy did and I would have handled the situation differently.

    But if his plan was to make a point to caddy I guess he has been succesful as they are going to be buying him a new car now.

    Just a little warning there is some adult language in this video so if you find that offensive well then just deal with it.
    Death of a Caddy
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Hilarious. He's more level-headed than I would be if I had sunk down 50K+ on a car and had those issues. Heck, I get riled up when the $1500 fintail I've had for 12 years acts up. That CTS sounds like it is possessed by the ghosts of 100 W220s.

    He has some funny commentary too...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    british,

    I watched the whole video and believe Cadillac, should just give the poor guy a new CTS-V. It was a great video.

    british, you stated you would of handled it differently. How would you of handled it differently ???

    Maybe we could learn something from you since you are in the car business ;)

    Thanx for the video..... :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That CTS sounds like it is possessed by the ghosts of 100 W220s.

    ROTFLMAO !!!!!! :D The W220 was the big body Benz I love so much, right ? Yeah you have mentioned to me in the past about how those cars could act up. I've never seen a Cadillac ever act up that bad. GM, needs to either refund him his money or give him a new CTS-V. If I was GM, I'd make a part II to the Video and give the guy a new 2008' CTS at cost and refund him the money on his V. That would be the right thing to do unless the guy just wants another CTS-V.

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    W220 is the one that replaced it for model year 2000. You like the W140s. I suspect more than a couple W220 drivers had similar experience to the CTS guy...except they spent 90K and not 55K.

    Indeed, the guy sounded more than willing to take on another car...they should just give him one. Here you have a young enthusiast (a market Caddy should want for its performance models) who wants your product, got a lemon, and now would be happy to just get a replacement. If they want to keep him as a future customer, they should just do it.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,412
    Holy crap... that video is astonishing
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well you and I couldn't agree more....I never heard of one guy having more problems at once than him. I seriously doubt you'd even find a W220 driver that had worse problems than that poor guy.

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Rental Pontiacs are the main reason I hate the brand so much. Awful seats, confusing plastic all around, wierd controls, incredible engine noise, and not good noise, when I got where I was going, I almost felt like walking would be more pleasureable. I have rented some Malibus too. They're a rough ride. Hertz knows now, I only like to rent Fords or Toyotas. And the occasional DTS.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I wouldn't have driven it home I would have just used the nav system to find the nearest rental car place or caddy dealership and dropped the caddy there. I would have onstar on the line the whole time always escalating(pun intended) the situation to the next level of personel at onstar. I would have told onstar where I was leaving the caddy and left the keys in a drop box.

    Then I would bill caddy for the rental car expenses and tell them I am not picking that car back up. I either want a new one or my money back but I am not touching that car again.

    I understand why he did what he did because he wanted to make a point with caddy.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well that sounds like a good plan if you were in his situation. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    NV,

    Are the 06' Malibu's really that bad ???? I guess I've only payed attention to the top trim models and they look decent. I've never driven a G6 yet but like I said mom and family like her GTP alot. Mom, says her leather seats are real leather and not that simulated leather compound like we both had in our Grand Am's.

    I agree with all that the G6 needs a interior upgrade and the plastic needs to go bye bye since it is unexceptable. GM, needs to atleast use the quality of materials they are putting in the Malibu inside the G6. However the G6 could be going RWD and a new version might be around the corner but the FWD versions might make nice used cars or for me or somebody else a all-season work car. I however would only get the 6-speed manual since the 4-speed automatic isn't the best car on gas or mom has her foot into it way to often. ;)

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The Malibus aren't horrible, rocky - they do look pretty good, better than any Pontiac, but that's just my opinion. They still are noisy though, like a John Deere or Briggs & Stratton is under the hood.... You don't get that smooth, together feeling you do in a Corolla.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    NV,

    Okay I understand. Yeah, GM could add some Buick Quiet Tuning technics to the Malibu. I'm confident the new 08' Malibu will be light years ahead in quietness when compared to the current one. I also agree the Carolla, is a nice smooth driving car. I wouldn't mind owning one for a work car since they sip gas and are great reliable inexpensive cars however I do believe GM, will have very nice Carolla alternatives within the next couple of years. Perhaps we will see some type of G5 size type of car pick-up where the Malibu use to be and be of higher quality.

    Rocky
  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    Funny thing is, the dummy managed to wreck his Bimmer on the Roosevelt Blvd. Anybody familiar with the Roosevelt Blvd. knows what a dangerous, poorly-designed road it is and all the convoluted cross-overs and psychopathic drivers. This dummy tried going 60 mph through a cross-over, hit the concrete curb, and flipped the 5-Series on its side pretty much totalling it. I come home from work to get a phone call that he is in the hospital getting checked out, but they will release him that night. His wife, (my girlfriend's sister) was in worse shape and had to be kept overnight and missed her own father's funeral. I wonder how he felt getting a ride home in my old Park Ave?

    Read what U wrote & look at the big picture:

    His car was TOTALED. Flipped on it's side. & both of them survived??? He was home that night? Not bad! If that were your Park Ave would you be able to say the same?

    Anyway, Cadi will have to produce SUPERB cars for the next 10-20 years before it'll be considered "Standard of the World..." It won't happen overnight. Until then they are an after thought of serious car buyers.

    In addition, they'll have to be trendSETTERS, not FOLLOWERS to be considered Standard of the World...

    I truly hope Cadi DOES come back. I really do. It would be nice to have a U.S. car that can compete with the overseas imports. It'll be a tough climb because their image took suc a beating over the last 20 years...

    Time will tell.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay I decided to go over to the Cadillac showroom and check it out.

    I have to say, regrettably, that the fit and finish on the new Cadillacs, while pretty darn good, are not up to the standard of a German luxury car. Fit is good but the paint was not impressive. The Pontiac sitting next to it looked just as good and the Mazda down the other end looked a bit better (egad). None of the cars on the floor had that German gloss and smoothness I've grown fond of.

    Actually the Escalade paint looked better than the sedans. I wonder if they are built in a different factory??

    Interiors were hard to judge as I didn't have a Benz or BMW there in front of me. But they were comfy and I saw nothing out of order.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Okay I decided to go over to the Cadillac showroom and check it out.

    I have to say, regrettably, that the fit and finish on the new Cadillacs, while pretty darn good, are not up to the standard of a German luxury car. Fit is good but the paint was not impressive. The Pontiac sitting next to it looked just as good and the Mazda down the other end looked a bit better (egad). None of the cars on the floor had that German gloss and smoothness I've grown fond of.


    The German cars are tens of thousand higher in MSRP also...

    Actually the Escalade paint looked better than the sedans. I wonder if they are built in a different factory??

    Yes many are built at the Arlington, Texas SUV plant while the Sedans are built in Lansing Mi. I might assume since the Escalade is all new it might be receiving a higher grade of paint to give it that new and improved quality feel that GM is marketing so strongly now as part of the turn-around. ;)

    Interiors were hard to judge as I didn't have a Benz or BMW there in front of me. But they were comfy and I saw nothing out of order.

    The Escalade and SRX, along with the DTS has pushed the interior level up another notch but the current CTS, STS, need a refresh to get those new improvements. ;)

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Somehow I think he's still around, in spirit if not in keyboarding. (grin...). Ya know, a new face, a new color hair, a new screenname and people never realize it's the same person until...

    ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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