Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

british_rover

I like it..

Sort of like the mythical, and incorrect, Rolls Royce flying factory techs around to work on their cars.

rockylee

Shifty,

Swiss Made I agree reflects "the best" in watch making. However, I do think as americans many get caught up in "where it's made" instead of "how it's made"

I do believe americans have the brain power to manufactor the finest quality product on the market. However as we've seen in the past and present we don't always execute to our potential. I don't think you can blame that on the american worker because americans can only build as good as the engineering and management allows them.

The old saying was if it's "German Engineered" it must be the best !!!!! The difference was the Germans engineered about the best but they also charged for it. GM, for example is currently trying to engineer the best product for the price which is very hard because money is a object. The Germans tried to engineer the best no matter what the costs were and would charge "whatever" to get the desired final product. The domestic car manufactors that are in the business of volume don't have such a luxury because americans don't make the wages to support such a method. that is why we have brands which reflect class and Cadillac I admit hasn't always had the product to reflect the price. However both lemko and I were fortunate enough to experience that with our 2002' Cadillac Seville STS's which gave us a nicely engineered final product for the price. My 02' Seville STS saved my life and I will always be greatful that GM, engineered that car well enough to absorb a 60-70 mph impact and have me walk away with only a concussion and and scrapes.

Cadillac, will always be "Swiss Made" in my eyes but in this case the workers were UAW and the Engineering was General Motors.

Like I said this is "Our Country" and Cadillac is "Our Car" just like the Silverado is our truck !!!! Well actually the 07' GMC Sierra Denali is my truck !!! :blush:

Rocky

Mr_Shiftright

Bingo! Myths WILL be created around the car, true and false. We'll start rumors and hush up conspiracies.

ROCKY: That's the problem...what people "think" is really important. Whether the Swiss actually make the best watch doesn't matter as long as everyone thinks they do.

louiswei

Maybe GM should work harder to find the secret recipe for those "miracle plastics".

british_rover

I have always liked the ideas of building Halo cars for a loss and as long as you market it right it can be very sucessful.

The prius is sold for a loss. Every single one of those is a money losing proposition for Toyota but look at all of the goodwill it buys them.

The NSX was sold for a loss as well but added another level to acura that Lexus and Infiniti could not touch.

The Veryon is sold at a HUGE LOSS. I don't remember exactly how much but I think VAG loses a couple of million dollars on every car they sell.

I think this is the only way Caddy could build a top tier(leading role) level car without having the proper supporting cast underneath.

rockylee

snake,

I honestly can't believe how much I've missed pal. You own a very nice Cadillac, and should be very proud of it. It's lighting quick and is a performance icon. If I had your car I'd be on Cadillac's shopping page picking me up a "V" watch, coat, shirts, etc etc etc..... :blush: I know a few bashers are only here to bash anything GM. It's really ashame a few people live in the past !!!! We've have admitted GM, didn't always have the "standard of the world" but gosh they continue and find a way to bash GM's latest offerings. I just can't see where or how they could ????? It's a amazing read....You keep your chin up and be very proud of your car pal. I hope at some point we can get on a positive note.

Rocky

bumpy

Okay, here are four cars. One is a Cadillac, one is a Lincoln, one is a Lexus, and one is an Acura.

imidazol97

>That's the problem...what people "think" is really important.

That can include demanding that the car be returned to the dealer for regular maintenance and doing recalls and upgrades during those visits so the owners and other people won't know problems have been corrected on the vehicle? That really helps the concept image of some vehicles. At least until the laws regarding recalls got changed and they are more public knowledge now?

That reminds me of a coworker who had his station wagon of a certain brand back in and they were redoing the rear brakes during the service visit... because they have problems with them wearing quickly.

british_rover

If I was going to rate them from least to greatest I would do...

1<2<3<4...

rockylee

louiswei,

WOW......Dude you amaze me with your negativity. I'm can't believe you think a plumber is more "worthy" or important than a UAW worker. The UAW worker has to worry about people lives with what he/she assembles togeather and passes as quality. A typical plumber puts a pipe togeather and welds it or uses a gasket to lock two pipes togeather. It's not much different than what a UAW pipe welder does. It's apples to apples and the UAW worker doesn't get $75+ an hour and most pipe fitters i know work for a company.

I don't see why that isn't a apples to apples arguement. :confuse:

Rocky

Mr_Shiftright

#4 is outstanding, #3 very good, #2 is god-awful, #1 is very 1980s, dated and clunky but not as unattractive as #2. At least #1 has some logic to it if nothing else.

Can't see #4s dashboard very well but seems harmonious, and the interior looks like mid-luxury car.

snakeweasel

Does anybody have pictures of the interiors in 80s Hondas, toyos, and Datsuns? Let's compare Allante with the others.

Lets not, that was some 20 years ago and times change. Lets stay in the present.

rockylee

Check your email box, Rock.

Will do in a few ......You know I always love e-mail from my ol' pal imidazol97 :blush:

I honestly can't believe what I've read so far. My god being away for a week and thinking the note especially of this forum would be positive ????? Boy I was wrong !!!!! :sick:

Rocky

louiswei

Rocky, stop putting words into my mouth, here's the original post, I can't find anywhere in there that I said a plumber is more "worthy" or important than a UAW worker:

"lemko, by the way, have you forgotten to mention that the plumber uses his own money to buy equipments, transportation, and pay for advertisement. Also, he probably doesn't get jobs back to back so in other words he doesn't work 8 hour straight everyday from Monday to Friday like the UAW workers do.

So again, let's stick with apples to apples okay?

I am interesting to see the comparison between UAW workers' wages and import workers'. Does anyone know where I can find that information?"

All that I was trying to point out is that UAW workers work on a fixed schedule, have a fix income and their medicare (as well as their family's) are covered by the company. Also they receive pension and 401K. On the other hand what does the plumbers have? They have to pay for everything out of their own pocket so to compare a UAW worker's wage to a plumber's is no way an apples to apples comparison.

I may be a "domestics basher" or "imports lover" but I am by no means unreasonable.

rockylee

I think the UAW plumber would take the $75 an hour if he had the clients of a well established plumber. The key is building up the reputation and sometimes it's easier just working in a factory as a plumber.

Sorry, but I honestly wasn't trying to put words in your mouth but was observing.

Rocky

rockylee

imidazol97,

Thanx for the e-mail and find.

Rocky

imidazol97

But The Allante is an old car.

The Photos someone posted have Old versions of Ford/GM with newer versions of Hondas and Toyotas. What are the years on those, Snake?

bumpy

Naah, they're all circa 1990 (which means the actual design work was done around 1987-88).

imidazol97

Thanks for the response on the years. Can someone find photos of interiors on the Lincoln and whatever Caddy? that was that show the seats like in the other two.

BTW what Caddy is that? I know that for a period having dashes that you could lay stuff on was popular but it doesn't look like any Cadillacs I've seen. I often browse through the (barely) used offerings at a Cadillac only lot in a small town nearby.

imidazol97

I just saw a great ad for Mercedes S class cars. It used clearly stated image words and showed clear pictures of the best view of the car, profile. It even worked in the idea that you'll survive a crash in an S class that you wouldn't otherwise in a lesser car. But it was an ad that clearly knew its target viewer and respectfully addressed them.

In contrast later I saw the ad for the Sebring with the outside panels looking flimsy and wrinkling up and down to show its innards. It actually turned me off with the skirts going up and down. The first views of the whole car were appealing because of the profile... Perhaps I'm not the target audience who like the wrinkling panels view.

british_rover

That caddy is an Allante.
Not sure what the lincoln is but my guess is a Town Car.
The Lexus is a LS400 I think and the Acura is a Legend.

bumpy

Allante
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/classic32_1932_174517815">

Town Car
http://www.bonhamchrysler.com/information/vehicle_inventory/largephotos/60444A_004.jpg">

british_rover got the models in the correct order.

imidazol97

Those pictures show the seats and look much better. But the Allante cockpit with all those buttons doesn't work for me. I've always liked bench seats as in 55-45 in LeSabres.

sls002

The pictures of the interiors show the styling, but not the quality of the materials or the touch/feel. The early pictures I saw of the CTS (in Automobile) made the interior look quite nice, but did not show that the material was plastic looking with a plastic feel to it.

xrunner2

I think Cadillac should build a V-16 FOUR door luxury car, in both short and long wheelbase. It should be glamorous and fast and should be filled with every conceivable gadget known to mankind. It will be a Maybach but with a plunging neckline and bulging muscles, not an undertaker's car.

This car won't be for profit.

GM has been reporting red ink in the past and complaining about retiree medical costs. Where will funds come from to build a "competent" V16 that would try to equal (surpass?) the Maybach? Think that greenies in US would go nuts making case of how wasteful V16 car would be in use of gasoline (even though only limited production). They would get traction on CNN, MSNBC, etc. Others would make case that engineering/development dollars would be better spent on improving their bread-and-butter vehicles or in funding retirees medical costs.

GM and Cadillac could get more positive publicity and hopefully sales to follow if they would try to catch up to Honda and Toyota in providing hybrid/alternative fuel vehicles. They could also try to catch up to Honda in their CAFE numbers. Will they have a new CTS model hybrid like Lexus has for their luxury car line?

Side issue: Understand that GM retiree medical costs are covered by union contracts. Wonder if GM will try to emulate many other companies that have shifted a lot of retiree medical premiums to the retirees when they discuss new upcoming contracts. This will help GM competitive position.

62vetteefp

Side issue: Understand that GM retiree medical costs are covered by union contracts. Wonder if GM will try to emulate many other companies that have shifted a lot of retiree medical premiums to the retirees when they discuss new upcoming contracts. This will help GM competitive position.

You think???

xrunner2

You think???

Maybe too timidly. They will be afraid of a strike.

62vetteefp

Maybe not as much as you would think. Come on over and read what is being said about it. The UAW is finally starting to get worried abouit their future here in the US. BUT, when GM announces its profits from the 4th quarter they may just hammer at GM and drive them back down to Chrysler/Ford level of profits.

62vetteefp, "GM: General Model View, Market Share & Profit News" #1066, 16 Jan 2007 5:56 am

imidazol97

Strike may not be a good option for UAW these days in this area of the midwest. I don't know what it's like around other plants.

plekto

Really, Cadillac's only card to play to gain more prestige is the glamor car, the exclusivity card. They don't have a heritage card and they don't have a racing card, but they do still have a history of American-style glamor and foreign owner "opulence". It was the car of "pleasure-seekers".

You've got be be kidding. GM is in a prime position to pull a "Honda" on the luxury makes.

What I mean by this is to build a somewhat close but much less expensive and mre reliable version of the same car. Honda did this during the 80s and it worked incredibly well. Build a car that's 80% as good as a GM or Ford(at the time), but price it for less and make it as reliable as a washing machine. And sales slowly gained momentum until it was pounding on the competition.

It's not bling or glitz or some showcar. It's reliability that wins in the end. And currently, GM pounds on BMW, Mercedes, and Audi, and Mitsubishi. It's not Lexus or Acura yet, but it's also not as expensive, either.