Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

15960626465121

Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    What the heck are you and lemko talking about ???? :confuse: swivel seats, TorqueFlite with pushbutton controls ????? Was that like the "M" button on a BMW M5 ???? :surprise: I didn't know Model A's had such features. :P

    Rocky
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    TorqueFlite was Chrysler's 3-speed automatic. (IIRC, Chrysler also offered a 2-speed automatic - PowerFlite.) Instead of a column-mounted lever, Chrysler used pushbuttons, which were grouped to the left of the steering wheel, to control the transmission. These worked quite well, but Chrysler dropped them & went to a lever in 1965. Back then, it didn't pay to be too different from GM.

    The optional swivel seats were supposed to make it easier for women to get into & out of the car gracefully. (You have to remember that in the late 50s, most middle & upper-class women didn't leave the house in pants.) When the driver opened her door, the seat would pivot to the left.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    ROTFFLMAO, that was a great, educational post !!!

    I didn't realize "gadgetology" was features like swivel seats back then. :D I'm glad I live in todays world as I think cars without Voice Recognition are pretty primitive. ;)

    Rocky
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    You want primitive? How about a 45-rpm record player underneath the dash? That was an actual Chrysler option at that time.

    As you might guess, it didn't work too well.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    ROTFFLMAO, you can't be serious ????? :surprise: Well if you were on a thing called a smooth road back then a record player actually sounded almost as good as a CD. That is just crazy. How Dangerous when one wanted to switch records. You had to pull over to change it. I would of chanced smashing my car and switched the records while driving like I do now with CD's :D

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >The optional swivel seats were

    Didn't Monte Carlos have swivel seats as an option.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    It wasn't a big sales success, as I recall, & Chrysler dropped it after a couple of years.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Didn't Monte Carlos have swivel seats as an option.

    I think that you're right, although my memory fails me here.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yes, I think they had swivel seats in the 73-77 models.

    T-Birds in the mid 60s also had that option, I think.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    '60s T-Birds also had a steering wheel that swung away to the right to ease entry/exit.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Jeez, lemko, you & fintail are good! I'd forgotten about that, even though I briefly dated a girl in high school whose father drove a loaded '66 T-Bird. MSRP, as I recall, was somewhere in the neighborhood of $6800.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Lemko - Your guess at the numbers is right right on the money..... As many domestic vehicles as Japanese in California, or more.

    From 2006 -

    Japanese Cars to Outsell U.S. for the first time

    Californians will buy more Japanese cars and trucks than domestic models in 2006, something that has never happened before despite the state's long-held reputation for loving Toyotas and Hondas. By the time the year ends next week, state residents will have bought 938,839 Japanese brand vehicles and 859,206 from the traditional Big Three nameplates, including Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge, according to a forecast by the state's auto dealers. That would give Japanese automakers a 44.8 percent share of the California market, compared with 41.0 percent for the Big Three. Nationally, through November according to Automotive News, domestic brands have a 53.9 percent share of the U.S. market, while Japanese brands have 34.8 percent share. The state numbers come from a forecast prepared for the California Motor Car Dealers Association by Auto Outlook, a Pennsylvania researcher. It includes retail and fleet sales.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    ROTFFLMAO, you can't be serious ????? Well if you were on a thing called a smooth road back then a record player actually sounded almost as good as a CD.

    Don't forget, Rocky, that back then a heater and outside review mirrors were seen as luxury options. Heck, I remember when power windows and a tape player were luxury items in the late 1970s. Putting a record player in the car had to seem like a pretty high-tech idea.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    The optional swivel seats were supposed to make it easier for women to get into & out of the car gracefully.

    The way my lower back feels today I think those swivel seats sound like a good idea. Maybe with a little booster, too?
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Rocky would be astonished if he could see the car that I drove in college: a 1968 Rambler American. Dad bought it for me because it was the cheapest new car available then - $1,795 out the door.

    This car had nothing. You name it - air, power steering & brakes, power windows, whatever you can think of - & the Rambler didn't have it. Three-speed manual on the column ("3 on the tree") with non-synchro 1st gear, 4-wheel drum brakes, rubber mats instead of carpeting & rear windows that didn't roll down. Dad agreed to pay for just 2 options: a cigarette lighter ($8 extra) & an AM radio with 1 speaker ($25 extra).

    Dad wouldn't pay $30 extra for electric windshield wipers. The standard wipers were powered by engine vacuum. As you drove up a long hill (of which there were many in upstate NY), the wipers would slow down & eventually stop. Then, after you had reached the top & started back down, the wipers would speed up. Every other manufacturer had dropped vacuum-powered wipers 20 years earlier. Not American Motors, though.

    Even by 1960s standards, that car was a stripper.

    It was slow, noisy, uncomfortable, handled badly, had lousy brakes & failed to impress women. I don't feel at all nostalgic about that car.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In 1974 I tried ordering a Dodge van in Alaska with Air conditioning. The dealer refused and I ordered out of Seattle and saved more than enough for my wife and I to fly out PU the van and take the ferry back to Alaska.

    The dealer claimed you do not need air in Alaska. What he did not realize is it works great to keep dust out which was a big issue where we lived on a dirt road.

    Even the cheapest cars are equipped with AC now.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    > & failed to impress women

    You should have ordered the "impress women" option, $36.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    LOL!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    The "attract women" option was right after the right side armrest for the door and the right side sunvisor options.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Holy Smokes, I would of died. I griped because my 92' Bonneville SSEi didn't have heated seats in High School. It did have 12 way power seats and various lumber suppport not to mention seat huggers that would squeeze your sides. I also had a built in cell phone and bose stereo. I guess looking back on it I was spoiled. The car wasn't new but was lightly used. Grandpa and Grandma baught it for me. I will never be able to repay my grand parent's as they helped my parents raise me right. :)

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'm sure a S/CRambler would've been impressive to both the girls and the guys. A college roommate had a white 1965 Rambler American two-door hardtop.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Did it have the old flathead six?
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    IIRC, the engine was a 199 cu. in. inline six that put out 128 hp. The next step up was a 232 c.i. six. Don't recall the hp rating but I do remember that if you ponied up the extra $50 or $75 for that engine, you also got synchro on 1st gear. That made it possible for you to downshift into 1st without either coming to a dead stop or double clutching.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    AAAAAHHHHH! Old car talk. A salve to soothe the soul of the savage beast! :D:D:D
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Through the 1965 model year, AMC offered a flathead six in the American line.

    After sales started sliding in the mid-1960s, AMC attempted to liven up its image with peppier engines, and one move was to stuff the 343 V-8 into the 1967 American.

    One problem was that the hardtop body wasn't stiff enough to handle the engine's power, so aggressive acceleration would flex the body and crack the windshield.

    At one of the Carlisle shows there was an original-condition 1974 Gremlin for sale. The interior workmanship was unbelievably awful...parts merely overlapped each other, instead of fitting together, and there were huge gaps between the various parts of the instrument panel.

    I learned to drive on a 1973 AMC Gremlin...made my aunt's Pinto seem like a Lexus.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    http://businessweek.com/pdf/270341BWEPrint.pdf

    Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit a head of Lexus :shades:

    -Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Did you notice BUICK in there for nonpremium brands? Did I miss Avalon? Camry? Honda?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    ROTFLMAO :D I'm afraid they didn't make the cut. Man how times are changing. ;)

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Actually last year Toyota customer service was rated in the lower half of all car makers according to JD Powers. I agree that Cadillac is very good. I came in wearing an old T shirt and Levi's and the Cadillac salesman treated me like I was royalty.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I always thought toyota, finished near the top in customer service ? :surprise: I've visited a few toyota, dealers in my lifetime and felt very uncomfortable the way they operate. I myself would rather deal with a crooked car salesman from GM, that is nice and pleasant than a snobby one from toyota. To me the GM salesman are more down to earth and I usually know more about the vehicles than they do and I tell them what I'm going to pay for it which is "GMS" and they will either work with me or they won't. As I've gotten older I don't play the funny games of getting iced as they go back n' forth. ;)

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Toyota Sales satisfaction ranked equal with Volkswagen. Behind all GM dealers.

    http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/sales-satisfaction
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    WOW, even JD proves my article right. ;) I am quite surprised as customer service use to be a strong point of doing business with yota !!! :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • bigo08bigo08 Member Posts: 102
    Cadillac, Lincoln and Buick made it :shades:

    Wheres Infiniti or Acura???? ;) :P
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Good question ? :D

    -Rocky
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    "Actually last year Toyota customer service was rated in the lower half of all car makers according to JD Powers. I agree that Cadillac is very good. I came in wearing an old T shirt and Levi's and the Cadillac salesman treated me like I was royalty."

    I have noticed the tides are turning the last couple of years. The Japanese quality has been matched by the others and now car brands like Toyota are slipping and sliding back to reality. Toyota may be the sales leader right now but I think their time is coming and GM will take that top spot once again as sales leader in the not so distant future.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    They will rule once again, yes !!!! :)

    -Rocky
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    ...if it wants to regain the crown. I don't know why you folks are obsessing over Toyota. Here on the East Coast, Mercedes & BMW consistently & easily outsell Lexus & Infiniti.

    I live in a well-to-do area. (Regrettably, not much of that rubs off on me.) I drove into town this morning to run my usual Saturday morning errands, & I spotted 8 E-Class MBs, 4 5-series BMWs, 2 CTS Caddies & l Lexus GS.

    There's a lot of Wall Street money around here, & when the big bonus checks are cut in December & January, we see a lot of new German iron. The hot-shot young investment banker might buy a $45K Lexus RX for his wife, so that she can negotiate the speed bumps at the mall, but he wants at least a $60K BMW 550i for himself. If he's had a particularly good year, he might drop $100K or more on an S-Class.

    It might be different in the South or Midwest, but on the East & West coasts, nothing says success like an expensive German car.

    If you want Cadillac to be Number One again, you have to figure out a way to get today's rich folks out of the German showrooms. Because even if Lexus & Infiniti disappeared from the face of the earth tomorrow, Cadillac would still be a distant #3 behind Mercedes Benz & BMW.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    Given my experience shopping Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, Volkswagon, none of this surprises me. I'd have to switch the ranks of Lexus and Lincoln, though, based on my local dealerships. Again, this is shopping experience, not service. There my only local experience has been with Volvo and Lincoln, and I'd have to rate both of those tops. Glad to see the home team (Cadillac, Buick and Lincoln) scored so highly.

    Of course, the militant Toyexus & Hondura supporters will just say, service-wise, it's a non-issue for their cars since they never have to see the inside of a service department. ;)
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Though the same can't be said about BMW or (most)Mercedes owners. Cadillac is wise to be targeting BMW and Mercedes.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Cadillac would still be a distant #3 behind Mercedes Benz & BMW.

    ??? How did you come up with that?

    For '06

    BMW.......274K
    MB........248K
    Cadillac..227K

    Not quite so distant.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    My apologies. I should have been more precise. I was looking specifically at mid-lux sedans: the Caddy STS, Mercedes E-Class, BMW 5-series, Lexus GS, Infiniti M & Acura RL. This is the sweet spot of the luxury sedan market.

    In April '07, the E-Class Benz, which is the sales leader in this segment, moved more cars than Lexus & Infiniti combined. Together, the E-Class & 5-series accounted for more units than the other 4 cars in this price bracket put together.

    Keep in mind that I'm sympathetic to Cadillac. I like the STS, which will be significantly improved for the 2008 model year, & am looking forward to seeing the new CTS. I'd like to see these cars succeed. But you can't win the war unless you understand your enemy, & in my area the German brands enjoy overwhelming dominance of the luxury market. I suspect that this is true in all of the key coastal markets. That's why I don't understand why some of you focus on the Japanese brands.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Yet, the simple fact is that, like Cadillac in the 70s and 80s, if you build junk for too long, your customers will flee for better, more reliable vehicles. The same thing happened to Jaguar, afterall. They became hideously expensive and unreliable, though still remained a status symbol.

    BMW is already there, IMO - they just retain a solid share via their focus on handling.(ie - it's prone to break, but dang what a ride)

    Mercedes... People are just about to go elsewhere, and soon. I give then 3-4 years to fix this mess they are in or it's over. In fact, at this point, as much as I love Mercedes, I'd buy an Infinity or a Cadillac because they'll cost half as much to keep running over their lifetime.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    BMW is showing no signs of slowing down. As matter of fact it is the second most profitable auto manufacture behinds Toyota.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I thought Porsche, was the most profitable. My goodness, so many different story's each week I here from folks on this subject. :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The report you are refering to about porsche did not take in account all the accounting funny business from them buying an increased share in VW. That made Porsche look like they made 28,000 dollars per vehicle.

    http://blogs.automotive.com/1012614/exotic-cars/porsche-28k-per-car-jackpot/inde- x.html

    They didn't really make that much per car but some magazine took how much their stated profits were and divided it by how many cars they sold. The thing is not all of those profits caome from building cars and not all of those profits were even real profits. You have all kinds of weird accounting business going on when buying 30 something percent of VW.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    There was another article on the net where some guy from Porsche actually explained what happend in more techincal accounting terms but I can't find it. He basicly said we wish we made that much money per car but we don't even get close to that.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well they should make that much money for as little R&D they have to put in on coming up with a new design, and how much they charge. $28,000 per unit on a 911 wouldn't seem un realistic to me given what I see in engineering changes which can't be much money. :P

    -Rocky
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Maybe Mercedes would be wise to follow suit w/ what every other major auto manufacturer does; share basic platform archetecture throughout its lineup (including Chrysler).
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    Well the charger, 300, and magnum use E-Class parts.

    The A-B class, caliber, patriot, compass, ect share parts.

    If DiamlerChrysler is still around, maybe the Pacifica and R class will share more parts.

    There were rumors that the next M-class and next Grand cherokee may share parts too.

    Cadillac is a great company and I finally figured out why the 1967eldorado's hood was a mile long! Thats when GM was planning to use a v12 engine!! Now gm is combing its 3.6l engine to make a VV(W) 12 engine! I predict that this engine will see use in the next Cts-v, corvette, and XLR.

    -Cj
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    Any chance Cadillac will make an x3/RDX/LR2 competor.? I think that if they use the Equinox's platform and build a whole new vehicle (similar to what happened to the XL-7) that doesn't look like a cadillac-a-fied Equinox, they could have a profit. That 3.6lv6 with 270hp will be on top of the class and the MPG on that engine is Superb! I call it the Cadillac ARX.

    This Artfully Road-Ready Xover with 260+hp, 30MPG highway, AWD, 6speed auto, and a nice shape will be great. Imagine The equinox shape, CTS(2008) headlamps, Escalade grille, and priced at $34k. That automatically improves cadillacs sales!

    -Cj
Sign In or Register to comment.