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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    In Japan Toyota is subject to a lot more laws protecting older workers. Probably why they come here and search out the states that are weak on workers rights. Even if Toyota loses a few discrimination lawsuits it is probably cheaper than paying retirement benefits.

    Did the article say what model was being offered with a V12. I could have taken an S600 V12 in trade on my MB Sprinter RV. It sounded real good running down the highway. I felt like a diplomat riding in it. I just did not want another sedan. It would be nice to see Cadillac build an over the top sedan and return to at least share in the glory.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I rented a Pontiac Grand Am last year. The interior bits were pretty cheap and sloppy and that's coming from GM's biggest fan. What was it with those light gray buttons on a dark gray background? It looks weird. I did dig the cool red instrument backlighting.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,861
    I didn't think there was such a thing as a 2006 Pontiac Grand Am. Thought the G6 had replaced it in '05.

    Bill
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Technically that's true, but there were a lot of leftover Grand Ams that took a while to get sold off.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Maybe you should give GM another shot. At least I gave Toyota another try after my horrible experience with the 1964 Land Cruiser. I bought a new 1994 Toyota PU truck. It fell apart with less than a 100k miles.

    Well, you waited 30 years between chances!

    Seriously, I have no problem with the idea of consumers refusing to buy a brand because they've been unhappy with a purchase - that's what drives capitalism and creates better products for us all. It's economic survival of the fittest.

    I have to say that I was a big Acura fan from 86 to 97 and owned a string of them... till they disappointed me in 97. (they didn't fail me, just disappointed me). That was it. I dumped it after a year and was glad it was gone. Very sad as a long time fan.

    Now they're making excellent products again, worth of the "Acura name". BUT:

    It'll probably take another 10 years of good performance by them to lure me back into a dealership.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    GM has not hidden the fact that the 5 speed automatic was built in France, and I have known that. The current 6L50 is built in Ypsilanti, Michigan. I really do not understand what your point is about the 5 speed being built in France. Are you making some sort of comment on French people? :sick:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Let's just stop right here. First off, the conversation isn't going anywhere pretty, nor anywhere that most members want to read... especially if they've come here to read about Cadillac's future.

    There are multiple GM discussions for talking about Pontiac products, and whether GM products built in France are of good/bad quality.

    Mon loup-garou est grand, mais il est aimable. N'ayez pas peur.

    Thank you.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Ahh, but if they build the Sigma tranny in France perhaps Cadillac will open an assembly plant there? :P

    Nahh, GM is just supplying low quality trany's to BMW. :blush:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >
    Mon loup-garou est grand, mais il est aimable. N'ayez pas peur.

    Errr, could you translate for those of us who are uneducated.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    My werewolf is large, but he is nice. Don't be afraid.
    just continuing the "french" theme, that's all.

    Nice to see the 89% first-quarter sales growth in Europe - WTG, Cadillac!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Danke shoen. Ich verstehe.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I hope that's not like from 100 to 189 cars...
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    "Of course they're going to tell you it's built in the U.S.A., cause they don't want you to know it's built in France. They're hoping you'll be confused by where the 6-speed is built compared to where the 5 speed is built, as well as where the Sigma transmission for the upcoming year model releases are built "

    Guess what, who really cares.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    I hate to be off topic and all but PLEASE WORK ON THAT FRENCH!! ;)

    So um... yeah... :blush:

    Why is it that GM/Ford made this tranny but didn't allow it to be the shiftable kind? I like the Idea of GM and Ford working together on that issue. Both were still in the stoneage with cavemen (sorry geico...) wen compared to a company offering Twice that(Lexus 8A) or almost twice that(Mercedes 7A).

    -Cj
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Lemko-

    GM just doesn't get it when it comes to having a good interior. Look at how they ruined the interior on the 2007 and previous models of the Cadillac CTS. Cadillac is supposed to be their flagship luxury brand and they put interior like that in it???????

    --mediapusher
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    May I suggest that you watch your tone of voice? You made some good points in your earlier posts, but now you're getting shrill. It's tacky to call another poster stupid.

    Don't lose your composure. Remember that we're only discussing cars here - not the really important stuff like books, movies & good Scotch.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    I'm sorry, but I get very angry at people suggesting that I should waste my money. It's not right.
    ______________________
    reference text::::::
    May I suggest that you watch your tone of voice? You made some good points in your earlier posts, but now you're getting shrill. It's tacky to call another poster stupid.

    Don't lose your composure. Remember that we're only discussing cars here - not the really important stuff like books, movies & good Scotch.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    It's silly to let this stuff get under your skin. Why should an anonymous poster's suggestion make you angry? It's not as if that person can force you to spend your money on something that you don't want. Just shrug it off. Turn off your computer, get up & go for a walk. That's what I'm about to do. When I get back, I'll drink a cold beer & listen to some excellent jazz.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    No, I wouldn't. I'd switch to Honda or Hyundai

    Why isn't it a personal issue, if a car company produces machines with known defects that will just end up costing the consumer hoardes of money that they otherwise wouldn't have had to spend?
    _____________________
    reference text::::
    If I were to buy a Toyota and had the so called problems that you had (Yes, read the Toyota forums for the complaints), I surely wouldn't be going to their forum crying foul and taking personal issue with the company. Based on your commentary I bet if this happened to your Toyota you would probably buy one again without jumping ship.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Wow. Mediapusher, you need to stop renting ultra-budget stripped car, you should loko at some of the other offeriengs.

    For instance, compare a Grand Prix to a LaCrosse. Roughly the same size, and the LaCrosse has the same 3.8L engine for the base model. But the interior and components all over the car are easily twice as good/the better stuff from the supplier(GMC is also this way - the better QCd stuff is put into them first). It's a solid car for the price.

    The poor Grand Prix base (rental) model isn't worthy to shine the LaCrosse's rims it's such a chasm between the two. And, no, unfortunately, GM only builds quality into its upper-end vehicles. Such is life. Ford is also this way - some dars are utter toads and others are world-class. But gerenally, you do twice as well with the top-end models.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Plekto-

    Why are GM's budget cars so much worse than a budget car from Honda or Toyota??

    What's really frustrating about this, is at that time I wanted to rent a Cadillac STS, but there were none available. I was at an airport. ( The place to go for the best selection)

    And please explain to me why it seems that no where on the planet is there a Cadillac CTS to rent?????

    Have you ever noticed that the vehicles they have at rental car agencies are the vehicles that people aren't buying?

    --mediapusher
    ____________________
    Wow. Mediapusher, you need to stop renting ultra-budget stripped car, you should loko at some of the other offeriengs.

    For instance, compare a Grand Prix to a LaCrosse. Roughly the same size, and the LaCrosse has the same 3.8L engine for the base model. But the interior and components all over the car are easily twice as good/the better stuff from the supplier(GMC is also this way - the better QCd stuff is put into them first). It's a solid car for the price.

    The poor Grand Prix base (rental) model isn't worthy to shine the LaCrosse's rims it's such a chasm between the two. And, no, unfortunately, GM only builds quality into its upper-end vehicles. Such is life. Ford is also this way - some dars are utter toads and others are world-class. But gerenally, you do twice as well with the top-end models.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I don't know why. They just are. As I said, GM doesn't get small cars at a fundamental level just like Porsche doesn't really understand off-road vehicles. Trying to cram that peg into the wrong shaped hole won't ever work.

    The better GM cars are almost NEVER sold to rental fleets in addition. It is frustrating that you can't get one to drive for an extended period. Yes, almost nobody buys them new because they are made solely for rental fleets. If you buy one, well, it's of course going to feel like a rental car.

    OTOH, they make excellent used buys. A Grand Prix for $12-13K a year old blows the doors off of something like a Yaris. So there is a small "it's relative" point to this as well.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    ”Why is it that GM/Ford made this tranny but didn't allow it to be the shiftable kind? I like the Idea of GM and Ford working together on that issue. Both were still in the stoneage with cavemen (sorry geico...) wen compared to a company offering Twice that(Lexus 8A) or almost twice that(Mercedes 7A).

    -Cj”

    Um.

    Perhaps you are referring to the FWD 6 speed automatic trans.?

    The 6L50 & the 6L80 ( as in my Corvette ) are manually ‘shiftable’ – in the case of the Corvette via steering wheel mounted paddles . . .

    - Ray
    Happily shifting my manumatic . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    When was the last time you saw an Accord for rent? Lots of cars are left out of the rental fleets. I know the Camry I rented was not the top of the line and it was NO better than the Malibu I rented a few weeks before that. If you think everything that Toyota builds is top quality, well I don't.

    Face it, you are biased and no matter what Cadillac offered you would say it was inferior. Just your opinion not shared by all the posters on this thread.

    PS
    If you think that all SUVs handle poorly. That a Corolla is superior in any way. Do yourself a favor so your lack of knowledge does not come out so glaringly. Go drive a new Escalade, GL450 or X5 BMW. Not much that Toyota builds is even close. A close friend has both a 7 series and an X5. He likes driving the X5 much better. SUVs have come a ways since the Bronco II days.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Yeah, go check the resale value of a CTS compared to an Acura TL, then come back and tell me about my "bias". There's a good reason why an Acura TL holds it's value better. I tell it like it is. I've seen the interior of a Cadillac CTS. It's inexcusable. A gauche person like yourself would rather have a CTS, simply because it has more bling.

    I wasn't trying to be specific in regards to Cadillac not offering some models for rental fleets, however I must say it's frustrating not to be able to test drive one, cause car dealers don't want to talk to you unless you're going to buy something, so I doubt if they'd let me test drive one of their Cadillacs.

    And you're right. I don't like big vehicles so I doubt if I would like driving an Escalade. It's not my lack of knowledge, it's your lack of understanding as to what my preferences are.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    There's a good reason why an Acura TL holds it's [sic] value better. I tell it like it is. I've seen the interior of a Cadillac CTS. It's inexcusable. A gauche person like yourself would rather have a CTS, simply because it has more bling.

    Can't you express your ideas without insulting another poster? Wouldn't it be enough to say simply that you don't care for the interior of the current CTS & leave it at that?

    When you resort to insults, you give others the impression that you lack confidence in your verbal skills & that you don't know any other way to drive your points home.

    I happen to agree with much of what you've written, but I'm turned off by your needlessly confrontational writing style. You'll be embarrassed when you reread some of your posts a year from now.

    (And frustrated English professor that I am, I can't resist pointing out that when you use the possessive form of the pronoun "it", you must never use an apostrophe. Thus, you should write "holds its value" - not "holds it's value".)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    First resale may be one of the best reasons to buy a Cadillac. You can get great deals on a year old low mileage model with Certified warranty. If you think any luxury car has great resale, try trading it in after a year.

    Have you gone to a Cadillac dealer for a test drive? I have and was given the royal treatment and access to any vehicle to drive. I was in levis and T-shirt so I did not look all that prosperous. By contrast I walked around two Toyota dealers, sat in several models without ever having anyone say Hi how are ya. I got the same treatment at Mercedes and BMW. The Acura dealer had a salesman right there that was very knowledgeable and friendly. Just did not like the looks or the seats in the new MDX.

    Interiors for me start with how comfortable the seats are. The less fake wood and especially brushed aluminum the better as far as I am concerned. I am more concerned how it handles our rough freeways and how well it will hold up driving down a sandy wash in the Borrego Desert.

    I know you do not like any SUV. You made the statement that they all handle poorly. That is just not so.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    “First resale may be one of the best reasons to buy a Cadillac. You can get great deals on a year old low mileage model with Certified warranty. If you think any luxury car has great resale, try trading it in after a year.”

    Very true.

    In fact, I see that the ( now relative few, near where I live ) left over NEW 2006s carry an $8,000 rebate. Meaning I expect that one could negotiate $12K or more off MSRP, if specific color & exact equipment are not absolutely paramount.

    [[ I have not tried – so that number is speculation. ]]

    But a new, $62K STS V8 for something like $50K would seem a reasonable price. To me. And at this time next year I ( fearlessly ) predict that 2007s will carry the same sort of “$$s on the hood”.

    So – if you can wait . . .

    - Ray
    Certain that my 2007 has depreciated a whole bunch, the moment I cleared the dealer’s lot. And so be it.
    2022 X3 M40i
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I agree with you that the CTS's interior, as well as the pre-2007 SRX interior, are a bit to plastic looking. The door panels are too machined looking, which was the look that they were trying to get with the "art & science" style. The 2007 SRX interior is much "warmer" looking. Lutz was hired to fix things, which is probably why the STS's interior does not look like the SRX interior. The CTS's value seems to hold up much better than an equally aged Deville or Seville.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Certain that my 2007 has depreciated a whole bunch, the moment I cleared the dealer’s lot. And so be it.

    That is the price we pay for being first owner. Anyone think they can buy a new Lexus and get any better trade-in after a year is dreaming. I know folks that have tried. It just does not work that way. You may do OK on a private sale. Not a trade-in. Friend bought a new ES300 decided a year later he wanted an RX300. Guess what he got the shaft.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Wow! We agree on something! The only thing I hate more than SUVs is minivans! That's my idea of automotive perdition! Of course I wouldn't want to deny someone else an SUV or minivan if they desire one.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't think the CTS has a bad interior, it just doesn't look like a Cadillac interior - a little too spartan. It would make an excellent Pontiac interior. The materials used, however, are pretty decent and the fit and finish isn't bad either. I had the pleasure of driving a new black CTS for a weekend back in 2005. It was a lot of fun and very economical too! With the psychopathic pump prices that year, the CTS was lookin' mighty fine. The car had just about all the features and more of my Seville STS, so I didn't feel deprived.

    If there was anything I didn't like is that the CTS used the same foot-operated parking brake as my girlfriend's LaCrosse. It's not that it was foot-operated that I hated, but that it didn't automatically release when the car was shifeted into gear as it does on every Cadillac I've owned since my 1975 Sedan DeVille.

    Now, the 2008 CTS...Holy smoke! I better put my checkbook in a safe and dump it in the Delaware River so I don't impulsively run out and buy one when it appears. My mine in Passion Red!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I wouldn't want to deny someone else an SUV or minivan if they desire one.

    or need one
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    Many have been removed - and I'm going to suggest that some superior attitudes be checked as well. I've not seen a single member yet who knows everything, and the projection of said attitude sets one up for ridicule when an obvious mistake is made.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Now, the 2008 CTS...Holy smoke! I better put my checkbook in a safe and dump it in the Delaware River so I don't impulsively run out and buy one when it appears. My mine in Passion Red!

    I will feel the same way. Lemko, do you get car magazines pal ? Car and Driver, sent me a e-mail on the 09 CTS-V, that got my blood pumping. That's the car that I will have a very hard saying NO too. It is indeed coming out in the fall of 2008. Since this will be the car I will most likely buy as my next new one
    (depending on sticker price's :sick:) I will have plenty of time I hope to learn about specific details and then go put my order in at the Cadillac dealership. :shades:

    Rocky

    P.S. lemko, check your e-mail..
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I've not seen a single member yet who knows everything

    I guess you don't know me very well !!!! :blush:
    just kidding :P

    Rocky
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    ...I just drove a new DTS to the Eastern Shore, my friend's car replacing the previous model he just traded in. So I have had ample chance to compare the new with the late model. With just 22 miles on the odometer I was quite surprised to find NO DEFECTS within this car. Not a creak, groan, grunge or wumping noise anywhere. All the accessories were sensibly arrayed so that once you understood what the nomenclature meant, it was intuitive in reach and touch. When you stepped on the gas, the car got up AND WENT...it actually responded to my right foot.

    The previous model always said to me: "We're trying, we're almost there..." This car, with the entire interior made by INTEIR Corporation, said something different, even though it was on the same bodyshell. Cadillac is not afraid anymore to be compared with the next guy on the block.

    ...and they have put investment dollars back into the brand in a way that is sadly lacking at Lincoln and Imperial. (Yes, I know there IS NO Imperial, yet). The slow march of Cadillac back into the top ranks of the luxury market is well proved by their committment to build serious cars again, testing at Nurburgring and the Wixom Performance Engine Plant building blue-printed engines. From this facility will come the production version of the V12.

    Mr. Lutz might throw cautious words to the winds about the future of RWD autos, but that does not preclude that Cadillac can pull off what they did in 1930...introducing a top rank automobile that caused all the competition to take note. Yet the bottom line is that as Cadillac increases its capital expenditures on the brand, over a long period of time, buyers will come back for a look see. If they like what they see and feel behind the wheel, they'll be tempted to turn the key and go for a drive. At best, Cadillac has one or two minutes to convince a would-be buyer who has lived behind the wheel of the competition to switch. So the very first impressions matter.

    Yes, Cadillac is poised to give its long time competitors a run for the money, and reward long suffering buyers of something far better from the brand. Look at the dual strategy that GM is playing in Shanghai and China---building market specific cars to meet the demands of the consumer. They are learning how to play the game again.

    I, for one, am NOT a long time Cadillac owner, but have spent a lifetime buying luxury cars, having driven 1 million plus miles in them in three decades, so this little DTS impressed me in so far as I was not disappointed with it, and thought they had done their homework. Not bad for a revamp: they fixed all the mistakes from the previous model and delivered a better chassis to boot. Yes, but Cadillac has to keep on this track or it will be game, set, and match---if they seriously want to represent our nation on the road at the top rank.

    DouglasR
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh man! Now I REALLY want a DTS! It's Number One on my Car Shopping A-list. This message is a real good endorsement of the car.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Then why would you buy a brand new car?
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    I like the 2008 CTS too, the only difference is it's the same feeling you get when you eat that box of Godiva chocolates when you're supposed to be on a diet. A terrible dichotomy.. A couple of pet peeves (the grille looks a little too GARISH. The retro-Eldoradoish rear end may not be what some were expecting) Chris Pawnwels rendering looked better, they seemed to have altered his design a little.

    I hope Cadillac gets this one right. It should only be up from this point on.
    ________________________________
    reference text::::
    Now, the 2008 CTS...Holy smoke! I better put my checkbook in a safe and dump it in the Delaware River so I don't impulsively run out and buy one when it appears. My mine in Passion Red!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well like lemko, a Cadillac, is #1 once again on my list.

    Mine will pretty much no doubt be a 09' CTS-V, unless the RWD Velite Convertible does make an appearance. I guess I can drive a CTS-V for a few years and then sell it for a Velite Convertible if it shows ? :D I am going to take a regular 08' 300 hp CTS for a spin and try to imagine what 200-300 more horses would feel like ? ;) I suppose I could drive a 08' CTS, for a little over a year and then sell it or trade it in once the CTS-V arrives. ;) I will have to crunch the numbers to see if my GM, discount will cover the depreciation. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The family discounts are not what they used to be at GM.

    That is true but on a brand new MY car like the 08' CTS it can give you a distinct advantage. Well that has been my experience as you can stay a head of depreciation. Especially with trucks. You are correct the GM, discount isn't what it once was. :sick: It went from a across the board 18-19% off MSRP, to around 12-15% off. I don't doubt it for a momment that your friends story is correct. I can on certain models fly to Dallas, where their is real competition and buy a car like a Cadillac DTS, and save several thousands more than what my GM, discount would give me. :cry:

    Rocky
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    I guess you'll have to wait for the next "Red Tag Sale" LOL!!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well the Honyota lots around here also run "Red Tag" sales. That isn't just a GM, exclusive. :P

    Rocky
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    It is a GM exclusive in terms that GM seems proud of it and spends billions to make everyone aware that they can't sell their cars for what they should be able to get for them, so they give you an employee price :\
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Wow, I missed the employee pricing for everyone. I remember from a couple years ago but the billions in advertising did not get to me recently.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOL, well the good thing is he is only living a few years ago in time. He must of found a warp whistle. :P I'm just glad he's out of the 1980's. Phew !!! ;)

    Now 62, what do you think should be next on the agenda for Cadillac ?

    Rocky
  • douglasrdouglasr Member Posts: 191
    ...Eiji Toyoda would be very proud. He prowled the Ford Motor and GM plants in 1954-55 looking for ideas, and took a boat-load of them home to Tokyo. Toyota exported two cars to California in 1957. Toyota just passed GM in global sales for March...and early April. They gained market share in America...to displace GM, while GM gained in China.

    ...so now that GM may well end up #2 worldwide by the end of 2007, Mr. Lutz needs to step up his plans for Cadillac and Buick. He won't sell that many V12 Cadillacs, but that is not the point, it is a halo car that Cadillac will need to regain its stature, and bring GM back to the forefront, while enhancing the baseline models that carry the day.

    ...the bells are tolling at Ford Motor, Lincoln is languishing at the hands of William C. Ford Jr., while the new Volvo based Mark S show-car nears production, it can't represent America as a top-rank American luxury car just yet, Mr. Kuzak has much work to do to make that happen. Rumor has it that Imperial has been "green lighted" at the hands of Mr. Klegon...which can't arrive soon enough, especially with Chrysler selling half its cars to rental fleets, and its German stockholders demanding the offloading of Chrysler.

    ...so it falls to the "Standard of the World" to become so again.

    DouglasR
  • bigman35bigman35 Member Posts: 10
    CFadillac is struggling just like the rest of gm. The only car that is standard of the world is lexus or maybe infiniti. Other than that nothing compares. Question does an STS park itself?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Question does an STS park itself?

    It doesn't need to. :blush:
    It has a driver with enough intelligence to park it much more quickly than an automated system that sometimes works and takes 90 seconds. :mad:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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