Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

plekto

And it still happens. Note the Fit and the Prius. The first versions were already on sale in Japan for several years before they came over here.

Even now, there's a 1-3 year lag time for most manfacturers. It's not much, but it does spare us most of the glitches. And makes them look artificially good(which is admittedly part of their plan)

GM and Ford - they could do the same. Just sell us the European models, which are pretty much debugged after a few years - and often better than what they sell in the U.S.

snakeweasel

If you are making the (veiled) accusation

Just saying that the subscription charged barely covers the cost of printing and mailing their magazine, if it even covers that. Now where do they get the gobs of cash to pay their staff and buy everything they test?

If you have documented proof,

Tell you what, come on over and we can have a few beers with a friend of mine and you two can talk CR. I'll tell you what to say to get him going.

louiswei

Okay, besides Fit and Prius what other evidences do you have?

As matter of fact, many of the Japanese models are designed right here in the states and are exclusive for US market only.

mediapusher

That's all fine and dandy, but the fact remains for many that buying a car made by General Motors is a wild card chance that it will perform as expected or promised especially in terms of reliability.
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imidazol97 wrote ----
Heck, I have two GREAT Cadillacs and a GREAT Buick Park Avenue.

mediapusher

How could Cadillac/G.M. be so stupid as to not put the Northstar engine in the Cadillac Allante. And they wanted $60,000 for it? (ROFLMAO)

mediapusher

The Cadillac Catera was G.M.'s gleaming example of being able to mess a good thing up. It suffered the same fate as the Cadillac Allante. When the Allante became defunct after only 6 years or so, it had become a decent car, the same can be said for the German Opel Omega, which was rebadged into the Cadillac Catera for the U.S.A.

They must have done much more than just rebadge it, cause I'm tellin' ya, the Cadillac Catera was a stinker

How does Cadillac expect to become the "standard of the world" when in the recent past they produce nonsense like the Cadillac Catera. And keep in mind most people know, unless they are brain dead that that Cadillac also means General Motors, so it in turn also makes not just the Cadillac brand look bad, it makes the corporation look bad too.
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The Catera was an import. It was manufactured in Germany and based on the Opel Omega.

I know what you mean about the Country Squire. My Dad had a 1972 Ford Country Squire. That car rusted with a vengeance and always suffered some mechanical malady. My grandfather's 1974 Chevrolet Impala was infinitely better.

mediapusher

Old age tends to do this to some people. They get very set in their ways and don't like change

62vetteefp

The only slang term I hear Cadillacs being called is "Caddy"

How about "Slade"?

snakeweasel

:blush:

grbeck

snakeweasel: Just saying that the subscription charged barely covers the cost of printing and mailing their magazine, if it even covers that. Now where do they get the gobs of cash to pay their staff and buy everything they test?

I've heard that they receive donations...now, if the allegations are that the donations are from Japanese manufacturers, and that these donations influence both their tests and reliability results, then that is a HUGE story.

One that is far too big to merely be bandied about on Edmunds.com.

snakeweasel: Tell you what, come on over and we can have a few beers with a friend of mine and you two can talk CR. I'll tell you what to say to get him going.

He shouldn't waste his time on me. As I said, if true, this would be one of the hottest stories of 2007. And I'm not saying that to be facetious. He needs to gather his evidence and take it to a major paper. (What is the big newspaper in Chicago? Doesn't Jim Majeta - I believe that is the correct spelling - write a regular automotive column for that paper? He would be perfect to break this type of story.)

Given the faith that not only consumers, but major media outlets and the automakers, place in Consumer Reports test results and reliability surveys, this would be front-page news across the country.

imidazol97

>Old age tends to do this to some people. They get very set in their ways and don't like change

That's certainly stereotyping a whole group of people in a negative way.

Does that fit Rules of the Road?

mediapusher

You're joking right? It looks like a BATMOBILE

gsemike

I'm a GM basher and this beating up on the Allante is getting old even for me. That car is ancient history and there have been plenty of other cars to bash since then.

mediapusher

I said SOME people, not ALL
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Old age tends to do this to some people. They get very set in their ways and don't like change

That's certainly stereotyping a whole group of people in a negative way.

imidazol97

Sorry, don't buy the excuse. "Some" is meaning the older part of the total population of people.

imidazol97

>imidazol97 wrote ----
Heck, I have two GREAT Cadillacs and a GREAT Buick Park Avenue.

Hey. I don't have two Cadillacs and one Buick. I think someone got their links mixed up. First sign of old age, my older friends tell me.

You might mean our friend Lemko. I have two great, comfortable Buicks that will whip around corners as much as I need them to do.

mediapusher

The beating up of the Allante shouldn't get "OLD" to you because it just goes to show you how scatterbrained General Motors is. The mistakes of the Cadillac Allante can still be seen recently. And blunders such as the Allante burn deep into people's psyches ---- something General Motors and its fans don't want to acknowlege.

The most recent examples are the Cadillac Catera and the way they degraded an Australian import --> Holden (the ill fated and now defunct Pontiac GTO) How long did the Pontiac GTO last before they scrarpped it, 1 year? Holden brand cars in Australia last for years and years and sell like hotcakes, but General Motors managed to turn it into lead like many things they touch, when it comes to cars. The American Holden (Pontiac GTO) probably didn't sell because it was marketed totally wrong

Mr_Shiftright

The topic really is about what GM can do to make Cadillac "the best" or "one of the best" again.

We've already beaten the dead horse about "don't make bad cars anymore", haven't we?

HOw 'bout someone suggests a whole new line up for 2010? What more successful makes or models should Cadillac try to mirror? Should they go upscale, downscale, all across the board? Should they give up something they are making now?

mediapusher

You're correct, however you're also forgetting that they also get money from direct marketing on TV and through mail order efforts of their CR magazine and other books and magazines that they publish--
----mediapusher
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grbeck wrote:

I've heard that they receive donations...now, if the allegations are that the donations are from Japanese manufacturers, and that these donations influence both their tests and reliability results, then that is a HUGE story.

laurasdada

The GTO actually got pretty good reviews, especially (if I recall correctly) for the interior (a GM interior!) and, of course, performance. What probably really hurt was the (lack of) styling (and maybe the price?). Look at a Mustang. Now look at the GTO...

You could be right re: marketing. I'm not sure that I can actually recall any marketing/advertising of note for the "New Goat."

mediapusher

Oh we're very much on topic sir, because it's all relevant. We may have "beaten a dead horse" when it comes to telling G.M. not to make bad cars and embarrass the United States anymore, but they don't seem to be listening, do they?????

And just in case you can't figure it out. The point of our discussions that seem to be off topic to you are, if they want to make Cadillac the "Standard of the World" then they have to stop producing junk and stop marketing it as if it's world class when it isn't, and they know it isn't. A Cadillac Catera doesn't ring world class in people's minds, neither do strange vehicles like the Cadillac SRX or Cadillac DTS (fishtailing nightmare). The previous CTS didn't ring world class in people's minds because of the embarrassing cheap interior and stupid design touches such as attaching the lap seat belt anchor to the seats. Cadillac should have known not to put cheap interior in the CTS in the first place. They would have sold twice as many as they did, if they had put decent interior in the CTS.

A person that drives a BMW 530 (which is what they're trying to compete with) wants the feel (if not actual performance) OF top craftsmanship, nothing less.
----mediapusher
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Mr Shiftright wrote:

The topic really is about what GM can do to make Cadillac "the best" or "one of the best" again.

We've already beaten the dead horse about "don't make bad cars anymore", haven't we?

HOw 'bout someone suggests a whole new line up for 2010? What more successful makes or models should Cadillac try to mirror? Should they go upscale, downscale, all across the board? Should they give up something they are making now?

snakeweasel

You're joking right?

No I am not,

"So we drove up town just to get the tags
And I headed her right on down main drag
I could hear everybody laughin' for blocks around
But up there at the court house they didn't laugh
'Cause to type it up it took the whole staff
And when they got through the title weighed sixty pounds."

snakeweasel

The beating up of the Allante shouldn't get "OLD" to you

No it does get old. Caddy could be building twice the car as any other maker and people will still bring up stuff like the Allante as proof that GM will always build junk. Anytime Toyota, Honda, BMW, MB and the like comes out with a problem immediately after its fixed its ancient history. But id GM did something bad in 10,000 BC it haunts them til the end of time.

snakeweasel

What more successful makes or models should Cadillac try to mirror?

No Cadillac shouldn't try to mirror any make or model. If they do everyone will be talking about how its just a cheap imitation of whatever they are trying to mirror. Cadillac should find out what people want and need in a luxury car and build it from the ground up to be better than anyone else.

You don't win races by following someone.

aldw

The only one claiming GM is making bad cars is you, none of the critics that have reviewed any of GM's vehicles over the last few years call them junk, only needing improvements, of which GM is doing amply over the last several years and is continuing today. The future product will kick more butt as they come out.

merc1

Well you did misrepresent the horsepower rating.

For the umpteenth time, that was an honest mistake. Again, with the correct numbers it still was a no-contest. My goodness can you get over that.

Your point of view on the Allante seems to be that since it was not designed to out perform the Mercedes SL it was junk. My point of view is that the Allante was designed to be a fuel efficient luxury roadster based on Cadillac's FWD drivetrain.

Exactly, compared to the SL of the day and then the 1990 SL it was just that, junk. You said yourself that the Allante wasn't in the same class as the SL. How many times do I have to keep closing this case? You can apply that excuse about it being an this and that fwd roadster, but Cadillac's claim was that it was an SL beater and it wasn't. Cadillac even guaranteed the Allante's resale value against the SL and they lost their shirt to put it lightly. The car was an utter flop and failure no matter what excuse come up with.

Sales don't mean the car was a good car or anything significant in its segments. Why is it so hard for GM fans to grasp this? The implication that good sales proved it was a good car is just plum ridiculous.

M

mediapusher

That's because G.M. does stupid things like putting cheap interior in a car like the CTS. They should know better than to put cheap interior in a car like CTS. It's a Cadillac, isn't it??????

And puhleeeez, don't tell me we're being unfair. I recently rented a 2007 Pontiac G6. What junk..

mediapusher

You just said it yourself --- "making improvements". 31 years after they first faced formidable competition and they're still making improvements. That's INEXCUSABLE. GM should be on par with the competition by now. They should have been on par with the competition by 1985 or sooner. And, hmmm cheap interior in a decent car(finally) like the Cadillac CTS. How could they miss that boat? I proved my point, and so did you.

And it's not just me talking "smack" about GM. You obviously haven't read many of the member commentaries and reviews on here
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aldw wrote:
The only one claiming GM is making bad cars is you, none of the critics that have reviewed any of GM's vehicles over the last few years call them junk, only needing improvements, of which GM is doing amply over the last several years and is continuing today. The future product will kick more butt as they come out.

62vetteefp

Just got our SRX. What a high class interior. REAL stitching (you know like string with a needle) along the IP, doors and along the console. Very nice. My wife loves the way the car drives.

The previous interior (and CTS) as has been said before was not cheap. In an effort to offer something that woudl be noticed they did the "art and science" thing. Worked excellent on the outside. However the technical grain on the inside just made it look cheap toy like. FAILURE.

Hopefully some folks who were turned off by the interiors over the last few years will take a look.

snakeweasel

And puhleeeez, don't tell me we're being unfair.

No you are being unfair, people like you are extremely quick to forgive any imports but will never let anything a domestic has done die. As someone else just said "none of the critics that have reviewed any of GM's vehicles over the last few years call them junk". But people like you just keep bringing up ancient history.

They should know better than to put cheap interior in a car like CTS.

Well the 5 series that we looked at wasn't much better. Dull and drab is all that comes to mind for that.