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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?



  • trimastertrimaster Posts: 163
    That list makes sense. All 3 are important but they can mean different things to different people. The hardest to earn would be prestige (IMO.) Prestige might mean raising the prices, but if they do, they have to get the performance & beauty up to par.

    It could be done, but it will take time.
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYPosts: 1,989
    They've already tried to price themselved into the elite particularly with the STS and people aren't buying it. They have to do what Lexus did in the beginning and underprice the cars to get people into them. Even if it's fantastic, they'll get conquest buyers when the cars are 10 grand less than their rivals, not the same or more.

    Shifty, I think that you offered an excellent succint analysis.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I think that a CTS wagon would take sales away from the SRX, especially if the CTS has AWD. However, a CTS wagon could be the new SRX.

    i think the SRX will be short lived. For 2007 they have redone the interior but not the exterior which will give it legs for a few more years. I read somewhere that Cadillac will get a CUV based on Theta. This will, to me, look about like the BMW X5. This would not look like a station wagon which would sell in Europe. Gives Cadillac two good looking SUV type vehicles.

    CTS sedan, coupe, wagon, convt?
    Theta CUV
    DTS (large sedan)
    STS (not so large sedan)

    Stay away from S class price point but build a big sedan. (DTS)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,307
    Yeah that is a good ad, possibly the best GM ad of recent times.

    Of course, the heritage theme has been used by MB for at least the past decade.
  • aldwaldw Posts: 82
    A Zeta-derived Sigma-heavy platform would be needed to have the size necessary for a S-class fighter or greater.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    I most wholeheartedly agree. I was pretty disappointed with the interior on the new STS, especially the lower-end V-6 models. I'd have to go all the way to a top-flight V-8 STS or even an STS-V before I'd be happy with the interior. If they gave the low-end STS as nice an interior as the high-end car, but keep the price the same, I'd show some interest. They should then make the high-end car even more desirable with no compromises in fit and finish and materials.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    170hp doesn't compare to 227hp.

    FWD doesn't compare to RWD in a luxury roadster with a 60K plus pricetag.

    I honestly don't see what you're going on about. This is like arguing about which room a fire started in when the entire house has burned to the ground!

    The Allante didn't compare and by the time it got the right engine, the 500SL was on the market and the Allante still didn't have a prayer.

    It is about the most matterless debate going.

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993

    My pal so you are disappointed with the current STS interior ? The design is beautiful but I agree the material execution could of been much better. I want the Cadillac SLS interior to come to our market ASAP. I think it would be in the best interest of GM, to build a 400 hp. Northstar V8 SLS/STS hybrid as the next car and keep the top trim model fully loaded under $60K. $63RWD-$66K/AWD for the current one is just way to much dough IMHO. What made my 02' like yours so successful of a car was we could as middle class americans could stretch our pocket books far enough to afford one brand new.

    IMHO The next STS/SLS fully loaded models should look like this:

    RWD-V8 Northstar-6-speed automatic "loaded w/ every option" $54-56K

    AWD-$56-58K-->Pearl Diamond White Paint $1K=$57,000-$59,000

    That is where the next STS needs to be if they want to sell in high volumes like the last generation (98-04) did. ;)

  • trimastertrimaster Posts: 163
    Yeah, that's true, they didn't buy it. That's why I was thinking the other factors are just as important at that point as well. If they're priced higher, they must also have the other variables in place to justify that price...

    Lexus had a great strategy, but they also had luck & good timing on their side. When they came out, Mercedes & BMW were at their low in quality. People were fed up wanted a viable alternative. The LS400 was it, AND thousands of dollars cheaper to boot.

    Cadillac won't get that lucky because that window of oppotunity has closed. Their best bet is to price their cars slightly lower than the other upper tier cars in their segment, but at the same time have them just as good.

    Since they don't have anything to compete with the LS, S, A8 & BMW, they have to focus on the lower levels & go from there.

    But then again, to get that prestige, they HAVE to have a car at the upper levels. Kind of hard to have prestige if you don't have cars that people of higher income brackets won't even give your brand the time of day.

    Talk about a tough assignment...
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Lexus had a great strategy, but they also had luck & good timing on their side. When they came out, Mercedes & BMW were at their low in quality. People were fed up wanted a viable alternative. The LS400 was it, AND thousands of dollars cheaper to boot.

    Not entirely correct. Mercedes was tops in quality in 1990. They were actually #1 on the JDP surveys then. It wasn't quality that opened the door for Lexus is was the price of a S-Class at the time. The LS400 had a base price of 35K and went to about 41K with options. The base price of a 190E was around 32K, which made the LS400 look like the raging bargain it was. BMW was in somewhat worse shape. They didn't have a V8 in 1990, Mercedes had several.

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    AWD-$56-58K-->Pearl Diamond White Paint $1K=$57,000-$59,000

    Would it have an available option of burgundy padded top? ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    We don't need no smart azz's :P

  • Caddy has to have a A8/XJ/7-series/S-class/LS competitor at some point to really be considered any kind of standard. They need a halo car and the XLR is not it.


    You have to have the proper supporting cast there to sell your lead actor.

    Caddy does not have the supporting cast yet. I actually kind of like the external styling of the CTS. It has some edge( :P ) to it you know and it does make a statement.

    They drive ok but not stellar and the interior needs work.

    What I would love to see is for GM to build a sports sedan/coupe using the 4200 inline 6 engine as a base. It already makes almost 300 hp and is very smooth. Destroke it a little bit down to four liters or so to make it rev better and stick it in a car.

    Maybe offer a turbocharged version, they already made a couple of turbo prototype trucks so it should be easy, that is destroked and has a little less bore to handle the extra boost. No reason you couldn't see 400 hp out of that engine.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993

    I thought that (4200 I-6) up several months ago and would like to see that implemented. ;)

  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    The 6k off is here in Houston. It's numerous dealers offering it. Whether or not it's a manufacturer, or dealer incentive is irrelevant. The point is, you don't see any other brand having to do that. [relevant to the class]

    Keep in mind that Houston is a big NBA city, and the bling factor is huge. [Why else would anyone want one.]
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    That is the largest discount by quite a large margin I've heard of. :surprise:

  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    Keep in mind that Houston is massive, and the level of competition is very large. The only other thing that's close to that is Infiniti dealers are starting to loosen up on the 07 G's, but no where near 6k off.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    That is quite crazy to see that big of a discount already. Like you said earlier they need to stop the discounting and just lower the MSRP's. ;)

  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My point is that your numbers were wrong. It is not unreasonable for you to misrepresent the Cadillac numbers since you are a Mercedes expert of sorts. However, your Mercedes numbers were also wrong. This is not acceptable.

    I agree with you that the Allante was not in the same class as the Mercedes SL. However, even with the 4100, the Allante performance was not particularly bad. I really think that the current drive to bring performance on the 0-60 MPH acceleration times down to 4 to 5 seconds is completely silly. Any car that will accelerate to 60 MPH from a standstill in 8 seconds has more than enough power.

    Comments have been made that the XLR is not selling well. The XLR sold about the same number of units in 2006 as the Allante was selling on average.
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