Black oil in new CR-V

downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
edited June 26 in Honda
I purchased a new 2021 CR-V with less than 20 miles on the clock. At 1066 miles, I changed the oil and found it so black that could not shine a light through it. The dealership said that was normal. Has anyone else had this problem?

Answers

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,462
    How long have you owned your CRV? How many miles do you typically drive it when you start it?
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyMember Posts: 6,068

    Unless there's something you're not telling us (i.e you work for Toyota), no, it is not normal to have black oil in a brand new vehicle with only 1,000 miles.

    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    I bought the car in April of this year. No I do not work for any automobile company. I am retired from P&G.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyMember Posts: 6,068

    @downeaster11 said:
    I bought the car in April of this year. No I do not work for any automobile company. I am retired from P&G.

    I have a 2020 Accord EX-L. The same 1.5 liter turbo engine that's in the CRV. I had my first oil change at 4,500 miles. Oil had darkened, maybe a light brown, but no where near black. I'd call another Honda dealership or an independent mechanic. That certainly doesn't seem normal to me.

    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyMember Posts: 6,068
    edited July 6

    I suppose it could have been some oil additive to help your engine break in, that they started putting in the 2021 model year.
    Check your engine oil dipstick at 2 ,000 miles, I'm guessing it will be o.k.

    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    I changed oil and filter at 1066 miles. Took oil sample 206 miles later, oil was almost as black as previous. So far I have changed the oil and filter twice. The second change was at 1370 miles. This oil has silver streaking. I've ordered an oil test kit. Now I have to wait.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyMember Posts: 6,068
    edited July 6

    I read this on an engine oil web site. Don't know if true or not....

    " was told the reason oil turns black is because drops of petrol mix with oil in the combustion chamber , this is becos' the tolerance level in the gap between the rings and the chamber are not accurate, this tends to turn the oil black"

    Previous model year Honda CRV's had a problem with oil dilution, i.e small amounts of gas getting into the combustion chamber.
    This was supposedly addressed a couple years ago. Have you noticed the level of oil on engine dipstick increasing, or going over the maximum level? Strong smell of gasoline on the engine oil dipstick? Maybe try one of the Honda CRV forums as they might have some insight. Or, perhaps @thecardoc3 can chime in here, he's turned a wrench or two in his life.
     

    2020 Honda Accord EX-L, 2011 Hyundai Veracruz, 2010 Mercury Milan Premiere, 2007 Kia Optima
  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    Thanks Jipster, will check out. You may also be interested in knowing I removed spark plugs at 1415 miles. It was like removing rusty bolts. A grinding and squeaking sound and had to use some force all the way out. The outer circumference of the body of the plug was caked with carbon. I used a borescope to look down into the plug hole. There were specks of carbon in the wells the plugs fit in and down on top of the pistons. I have pictures of everything.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,462
    edited July 7
    GDI engines produce carbon deposits, seeing carbon on the plug even at low mileage would not indicate trouble.

    Seeing metallic residue in the oil (silver streaking) is a concern IMO. The oil analysis is a good idea.

    Trying to judge the oil by it's color is very subjective. Oil can look really bad and still have the ability to perform all of it's requirements, again the analysis should provide some insight. I have a new Mazda CX-30, purchased late March and the oil is not darkening. I am ready to change it at 3500.

    What oil are you using? Specifically are you using one that has the GM dexos1 license on the front of the bottle?
  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    With all due respect to thecardoc3, all internal combustion engines produce carbon not just GDI systems. It is a biproduct of burning gasoline. The only difference is in non GDI engines, gas washes over the intake valve thus keeping it cleaner.
    If my oil is that black after only 206 miles, it means that it is saturated with carbon deposits. Carbon by nature is an abrasive. This abrasive is circulating through my engine. It's no wonder I now have what seams to be metal fillings in the oil.
    I am using a Honda filter and oil that is recommended.
    You your self said your car has 3500 miles but the oil is not darkened!
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,462
    GDI is different from other gasoline engines when it comes to how it operates and why it produces carbon deposits. This goes way beyond what occurs with the intake valves. While it's true that carbon deposits have always been an issue GDI is its own special kind of monster in that regard. If you have time to read here is a link to more than most of us want to know. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/direct-injection-gasoline-engine

    The color of the oil is not an indicator of needing service. You can find articles here in Edmunds that were critical of shops and techs who recommended services based on color alone. The first pic shows what my Mazda's oil looks like on the dipstick. I am servicing it today.

    Just saying that you are using an oil that is recommended isn't enough because you have to be specific about it recommended by who (whom)?

    The second pic is the backside of the label from the oil that is going into my Mazda. Take note on the words "approved for" and the license for dexos1. That's way different than just the oil company making some recommendation for the product. This BTW is no endorsement of any product or manufacturer it is only about understanding how to read the labels. There are many products that would be a good choice for my car, just as there are products that would be a poor choice. Pay specific attention to the ACEA A1/B1 C5. That approval says more about this oil than the dexos1 license does.

    The third pic is the dexos logo from the front of the bottle. If it is on the oil you are using then it would be a good choice for your Honda.








  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    1) DEXOS means it's approved for use in GM vehicles, I have Honda.
    2) The oil I'm using is Pennzoil platinum, also DEXOS approved.
    3} I can show you the tip of the Honda's dipstick and it looks fine. (no black deposits) If you wipe with a clean paper towel starting at the handle end of the metal rod all the way to the tip, you get lots of black particulates.
    4) I read the article you linked to, no wear does it mention GDI systems create black deposits in the engine oil. (If I'm wrong, please quote verbatim the sentence or paragraph.)
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,462
    That's not an article, each of those sections are a synopsis for an SAE paper on GDI and in them you will find the explanation for the carbon issues with GDI. Those papers are all about trying to solve the issues that manufacturers are encountering. ( Hint: A lot of it has to do with the stratified cylinder charges and the wide range of variable valve timing).

    The GM dexos1 license proves that a given oil has the correct base-stock and additive package to actually meet Honda's specifications. Honda doesn't require that oil companies list their approvals but their current requirements are exactly the same as GM's. So to find the right oil for your Honda, thank GM for having that logo required to be on the front of the bottle.

    I took some pictures as I serviced my CX-30. The first is the old oil alongside the new. The second and third are trying to shine a light through the oil samples. What you will see in these pictures is normal and not an indication of the oil's ability to do it's jobs.




  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    So basically nothing in the article answers my question. It's all supposition on your part. The pictures you display are of oil with 3500 miles. If you had read my original statement, you would have seen my engine only has 1066 miles. Your points are invalid.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,462
    I showed you what the oil looked like on the dipstick, which was normal. Then I showed you what the oil looks like if you try to shine a light through it, again what you see in the pictures is normal. What you don't realize is the oil would have looked like that at 1000 miles. The dispersants and detergents are supposed to keep contaminants in suspension. Because they stay in suspension it is normal for the oil to darken. When that fails to happen then the contaminates drop out of the oil and get left in the engine.

    Nothing that you have posted aside from the "silver streaking" suggests any problems and even that needs investigated objectively. I get it, I can't convince you that you are looking for a problem that even your dealer told you doesn't exist based on what you have posted here.
  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    First of all my original letter was asking if anybody had the same problem as I am. You interjected with all of this nonsense about GDI engines, oil specifications and mileage between changes being the problem. Nothing you've written explains the darkness of my oil at only 1066 miles. Putting that aside, let me enlighten you on some more information. This is not the first GDI engine I've own. The vehicle I traded in was 2016 Honda Accord with GDI. This car had 80000 miles on it and I preformed oil and filter changes every 3000 to 4000 miles. It used the same oil. Full synthetic 0W-20 as in this car. Of all those changes, there were at least 4, none of them where so dark as not to be able to shine a light though. I don't know who your trying to empress with your lack of knowledge but it's not me.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,527

    First of all my original letter was asking if anybody had the same problem as I am. You interjected with all of this nonsense about GDI engines, oil specifications and mileage between changes being the problem. Nothing you've written explains the darkness of my oil at only 1066 miles. Putting that aside, let me enlighten you on some more information. This is not the first GDI engine I've own. The vehicle I traded in was 2016 Honda Accord with GDI. This car had 80000 miles on it and I preformed oil and filter changes every 3000 to 4000 miles. It used the same oil. Full synthetic 0W-20 as in this car. Of all those changes, there were at least 4, none of them where so dark as not to be able to shine a light though. I don't know who your trying to empress with your lack of knowledge but it's not me.

    An expert gives you an expert opinion, just via your description on the internet. For free, on his own time.

    You should quit while you are ahead. ;)

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  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    thecardoc3 hasn't given any proof of being an "Expert" on anything, especially on oil . Until he does, it's only an opinion from a blogger. It is subject to cross examination and rebuttal by real life experiences.
    What exactly do you mean by "ON THE INTERNET"?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 197,527

    thecardoc3 hasn't given any proof of being an "Expert" on anything, especially on oil . Until he does, it's only an opinion from a blogger. It is subject to cross examination and rebuttal by real life experiences.
    What exactly do you mean by "ON THE INTERNET"?

    I think you could learn a lot about oil by re-reading his posts.

    Since I’ve been here 16 years as a Moderator, I don’t have any worries about who is an expert and who isn’t.

    Stop back in when you get the analysis back, and let us know.

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  • downeaster11downeaster11 Member Posts: 10
    The POINT is not the oil. The POINT is the quantity of contaminants in the oil. Like I said, I have experience with this oil and this type of engine. Are you saying that sometimes this happens and sometimes it doesn't?


    Putting all of that aside, I'll repeat my original question which was has anyone else had this same problem. I didn't ask for anyone or him to explain it, only if I am the only one.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Member Posts: 5,462
    Did you get your oil analysis back yet?
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