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Pontiac Aztek

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Comments

  • nextmoonnextmoon Member Posts: 386
    malibu99 - I had a dealer tell me the same thing when I went in to check out a used Red Aztek. Dealer claimed it's the last of them cuz Pontiac discontinued the model. I knew better so I just smiled and walked away, not a guy I want to deal with.
  • malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    I just got confirmation from Pontiac that the Aztek is not being discontinued. Unfortunately they can't do anything about that dealership that lied to me because they are independent of GM.
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Hey Guys, a few posts back someone mentioned that they wanted to change their 2001 turning signal covers to the 2002 clear lenses so that they could put in different color bulbs. Be careful, it is illegal in many states to use any other color than amber, clear (white) bulbs might be ok, but just be aware that you could possibly get a citation.

    A employee of my Dad, years ago, put green bulbs in the turning signal sockets and was ticketed.

    Mark
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • waymoresblueswaymoresblues Member Posts: 54
    I prefer YELLOW signal bulbs independent from the RED stop bulbs...anyone at Pontiac listening? If anyone knows how to make this happen let me know.
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    Probably a little late for the holidays, but at a recent promotional event we were given remote control Azteks. Cute little buggers with knobby tires that look a whole lot like the real thing. I'll post pics of it at my site (http://www.picturetrail.com/gregeaston).

    They can be purchased for around $30 by calling American Identity at 1-800-793-9834.
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    Well, last weekend I got an up-close and personal tour of the new 2002 tek.

    The good news...

    Everything that was right with the car is still right. A new interior fabric scheme is available. Plus the cooler is now standard with all models as is the CD player.

    The bad news...

    The spoiler IS retrofittable to the 2001. However, you will probably have to replace the entire liftglass to do it. It won't slip into place on the 2001 like we had hoped. In addition, the 2001 tents do not fit on the 2002 because of the width of the spoiler. So anyone who puts a spoiler on a 2001 won't be able to use their old tent.
  • nextmoonnextmoon Member Posts: 386
    Where were you able to get a close-up view of the '02 Aztek? In fact, I haven't been able to locate a '01 just to check out the interior. I'm located in NYC area.
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    Yeah. I was inside, outside, all around.

    To locate one in your area (there aren't many 2001s left) go to www.gmbuypower.com and plunk in your info and it will give you a list of dealers in your area with them.
  • nextmoonnextmoon Member Posts: 386
    gregeaston - I tried the website and found several listings but was disappointed when I couldn't find them on the lots. The sites may be outdated? It also turned out one of the dealers had moved from their published location. I found a sign redirecting me to their new location but still no Aztek to be found...
  • waymoresblueswaymoresblues Member Posts: 54
    I was attending a holiday party last night and a friend of mine said she saw a 20/20 type news program saying the Aztek (among others) wasn't safe or some such...anyone know what show this was and what was said...she saw it in passing and didn't remember.
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    It was Dateline.

    The 'tek received a "Marginal" rating. So did 4 other SUVs (but only the tek has a 4 star rollover rating) but Dateline dwelled endlessly on the Tek although they let the Jeepster retest after bombing miserably.

    It's a great test, but kind of unrealistic as not many car designers build cars to crash full-on into an offset brick wall.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Unfortunately, people who don't give much thought to things, live by the results of these test and purchase accordingly.
  • malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    That was a dateline crash test. The body of teh Aztek held up good and the area around the dummy was not compromised. They gave it a marginal because the air bag deploey a few miliseconds too late. However it is teh ONLY suv with 4 star ratings in rollover tests so it is a safe car. What these tests fail to take into consideration is that any crash involving two cars will not be the same as their tests where they hit a flat non moving wall. When a car hits another car you have to consider that the other car will move in the direction of the crash and the other car will also bend reducing the force felt in both cars. I dunno about them but I never slam into a wall at that speed, nor have I ever seen an accident of that nature. Still waiting for 3 more months to get my Maple Red Aztek with red accent interior. can't wait! :-)

    Pass it On........
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    Crash tests into walls are only relevant in determining how much damage some blue-haired biddy is gonna do when 'the gas and the brake get tangled up' and they go shooting through the front of their hairdresser's place because they skipped right past the big "R" and went right to "D".
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Do you have an 02 on order? Sounds nice.
  • malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    Not on order yet, waiting until late January so it will be here around late march early April. We made teh specs and the order configurations so it's ready to be entered whenever I give him a deposit.
    Still enjoying my Malibu but I'm ready for the next division up so I am moving to pontiac ( until Chevy makes a nice small SUV since that Tracker thing does not appeal to me ).
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Though a crash into an immovable wall may not fully reflect real world conditions, it does provide some standard for comparing the "crashworthiness" of a vehicle.

    It is simply unrealistic to test for all possible encounters. Consider also that many collisions involve other vechicle so that, for example, you might want to perform tests on pairs of cars colliding. If you have 100 models to test and each is to be tested against all of the others, then you would have to "sacrifice" 4,950 vehicles instead of 100.

    Now, as to those blue-haired biddies, let's be careful there! Some of our best friends are blue-haired! Besides, they usually pay lower insurance premiums than the kdis so we shouldn't cast stones! :-)

    tidester
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  • nextmoonnextmoon Member Posts: 386
    Is this the current engine in the '01 Azteks/Rendezvous/GM minivans? Link at:

    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_031146
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    Sure looks like it to me.
  • nextmoonnextmoon Member Posts: 386
    Gregeaston - Is there a difference between the Vortec 3400 and non-Vortec 3400 engines? As that site shows two different 3400 series engines with the non-Vortec going to the Grand AM and etc. Also putting the pictures side-by-side, there are some differences. Is it for sure the Vortec version is in the Aztek?

    Also, are there any tweaks or such in the 2002 engine?
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    Hmm... I think that site might have it wrong. I don't think the 'tek has a vortec. Infact I'm almost positive that it doesn't.

    No engine tweaks for the 2002... but wait til 2003 when the Aztek Mark III hits the street...
  • malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    What is the Aztek Mark III?

    Cars are like computers now, you buy the new model and it's obsolete.
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    Well, the 2001 was the first model so that was the Mark I. The 2002 is a redesign so it's considered Mark II. Unless something changes between now and production time for the 2003s they will have a MAJOR redesign and that will be the Mark III.


    All I keep hearing from the Development Team is "Wait 'til 2003" and "....maybe in 2003" with a smile and a wink.


    My theory is that they are going back to the concept vehicle and will push to have the production model more closely mirror that.


    In case you don't know what the concept looks like just go check out my site at: http://www.PictureTrail.com/gregeaston/

  • malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    Ohhhhh Ok.

    I'm new to the Pontiac forum so excuse my stupid question to follow...

    You work for Pontiac then?

    Nice!

    Oh darn now I'm wondering if I should keep my Malibu until 2003. Oh cars...... Maybe I can extend my lease until September 2002. :-)
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    Nope. I'm just a really rabid fan of the Aztek and I met most of the development team during the Northeast Aztek Owners Rally last July and they were really great about giving us some insights into the 2002 and a glimmer of the 2003.

    They also keep us owners updated on another site that shall remain nameless so that the board monitor doesn't nuke my post so that we get to participate in things like a few weekends ago when they had a few of us down to CT to film footage for the 2002 CD-ROM brochure that will be available from the Pontiac website in January.
  • malibu99malibu99 Member Posts: 305
    If you want you can send me the web site to my e-mail :

    ophiochus@yahoo.com
  • kermitekkermitek Member Posts: 120
    I am not in the least surprised to hear about Dateline and NBC's latest silly "lab test". Especially after the fiasco a few years ago when they intentionally rigged a Chevy pickup with model rocket engines to "help" it ignite and burn after one of their test crashes. In my view their credibility was forever tarnished by that ethical lapse. GM threatened to sue, and they later made a humiliating retraction/explanation. Just think of all the ways you can muck up a crash test... tire pressures... door locks... dummy type, condition, securing, instrumenting and positioning... I'd rather leave it to an impartial Gov't lab like NHTSA.


    The Aztek is neither the best nor the worst vehicle in its weight class for crash safety. It is however the sole owner of the best rollover ratings for any SUV yet built. Also - crash tests into solid walls must be taken with a Major grain of salt, since the vast majority of real crashes are with other vehicles, where the Aztek's roughly two-ton mass can be a distinct advantage.


    New readers/posters - Take a look at my Aztek safety page, at http://www.mwshowgo.com/kermit/safety.htm


    malibu99 - congrats on your decision - you will not be disappointed. I saw a black AWD 2002 Aztek the other day and they are mighty fine!

  • noastarnoastar Member Posts: 108
    hey. I just went to your pic site and took a peak at that Sema Tek. The silver one. Do you know who did that? I can't tell from the pic. I absolutely love the new trim/ground FX combo on it. Very slick. I gotta say that's one of the best looking teks I've ever seen. Let me know if you have any info on that body kit. Thanx.
  • maxintoshmaxintosh Member Posts: 39
    I'm learning to be an automotive engineer, so I thought I would add a few points missing from this discussion:
    1) The Insurance Institute does not ram cars into a solid brick wall. That's the NHTSA test. They crash cars into in an offset *deformable* barrier. It's the equivalent of rear-ending an SUV on the driver's side.

    2) If you think that it's just "coincidence" that there's not a single GM SUV rated "Good" and that the three worst are made by GM.... think again. GM has LOUSY safety records. Their minivan, which should be a fortress of safety, completely collapsed in the test and got worst overall. I invite you to stroll over to www.iihs.org and check out both crash tests done on GM vehicles in general and the injury claim data. Ugly.

    3) These cars only hit the wall at 40 mph. That's way below highway speeds.

    4) Probably the most inaccurate assessment of a car's tendency to roll over is in NHTSA's RRR tests. They're have been condemned by multiple publications, regulators, countries, etc. Most cars don't just flip off the road, they usually roll over because of a collision. The RRRs are a simple calculation of the heaviest parts of the vehicle vs. width vs. height. Is the Aztek less likely than an Excursion to roll over? Probably. Does that mean you should be flaunting its RRR score? Not at all.

    5) That Aztek's late-firing airbag is a *VERY* serious issue. This is an engineering flaw. Not all airbag sensors are created equal. A well-tuned airbag sensor should be able to sense such a simple collision as hitting a wall easily and accurately. They should be recalled and fixed. An airbag that fires late in a collision could easily kill you.
  • kermitekkermitek Member Posts: 120
    I read your post with interest but am a little perplexed by a few of your points. I am already an engineer (MSME) so am a big proponent of using logical deduction and objective review of results. I don't feel I am deluding myself about GM's safety record - Toyota, BMW and the likes are obviously the current stars of crashworthiness. I don't believe I have said anything to the contrary. My main thrust in the above post was to put the sensational (and I don't mean that as a compliment) Dateline report into its proper context.

    1. Kinetically speaking (kinetics is the study of motion and the forces causing it), it is irrelevant whether the barrier moves or is fixed. Instead what is Actually relevant in a real crash is the relative MASSES of the vehicles colliding. If my vehicle is twice as heavy as yours, you are EIGHT times more likely to die (see www.crashtest.com ).

    2. I searched for the word "coincidence" in my post and the page of discussion... could not find an instance. Who are you quoting? Also - while busy slamming GM's safety record you might be surprised to discover GM was the first manufacturer in the world to offer airbags. And if GM is so bad, how did the new Impala/Monte get 5/5 NHTSA stars, and how did the Seville and LeSabre both get "Good - Best Pick" IIHS ratings(different platforms but same outstanding results)? Even the Rendezvous was rated at least "Average" by IIHS, and the Aztek scored 3/4 NHTSA stars. By the way IIHS never mentions this but only 10% of inter-vehicular crashes are driver-side frontal offset. As for safety dogs/duds, many manufacturers have at least one model they are not very proud of... check out the PT Cruiser's crash results. GM's SUV's universally poor? Then how did the Yukon XL score 4/4 NHTSA stars?

    3. Highway speeds... are above the threshold for an optimum spread of test results. A more extreme example: if you chose to propel every test vehicle into the wall at 125 MPH, they would all look about the same - a flattened mass of steel. Hmm... no differentiated comparative data there....

    4. Rollover ratings - may be a little unrealistic but the fact is Aztek is the BEST. Get over it... perhaps as part of your studies you can invent a better (but still cost-effective) way to rate rollover safety.

    5. My wife and I are not fretting/sweating out the wait for a recall. NHTSA says - our car got 3/4 stars. We always wear seat belts, we drive defensively and we have a relatively heavy car. God willing, we'll be just Fine thank you.
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    I have no idea who did the silver SEMA 'tek, but Pontiac should be taking notes. That's one hell of a mod.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I think in the end, the tests have to be taken with a grain of salt. Let's face it, the Aztek is not dangerous and it's not as good as it could be either.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Keep in mind that the Pontiac Montana ,"...that completely collapsed in the test and got worst overall." , according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Highway Loss Data Institute is the 51% better then the average Passenger vehicle and 20% better then the average Large Station Wagon/Passenger Van for collision loss experience. That is the best score in the Wagon/Van catagory. In fact GM has 7 of the top 10 and 0 of the bottom 10. I have to believe that body damage and injuries have to be related in some way.
  • maxintoshmaxintosh Member Posts: 39
    1) It IS relevant whether the object you're hitting deforms or not. Remember the impulse-momentum theorem—a change in momentum requires a force divided by time. That's why cars crumple up in front—to increase the amount of time the force is divided by, and dissipate the force. Kinetic energy is not conserved, but momentum is. Thus, NHTSA's test is like hitting a car dead on and the IIHS's test is like rear-ending a car.

    2) GM used to be an incredible company. Their classic cars are amazing. Ford began airbag research, Chevy installed airbags on a test fleet in 1973, and Mercedes was the first to offer it on all their models in 1986.

    NHTSA rates vehicles out of FIVE stars, not four. That's the Euro NCAP test. The Aztek scored 3 out of FIVE stars driver, four out of five passenger. Three stars means 21%-35% chance or serious head injury. The Yukon also got 3/5 for the driver and 4/5 for the passenger, with the added bonus of an extremely high thigh/knee impact recorded. The Yukon XL got 4/5 and 4/5 (damn, the thing is big enough). Sure, manufacturers have their duds, but considering the sheer number of SUVs GM cranks out, you'd think a couple would score "Good" overall. I never said Chrysler made crashworthy products.

    5) Airbags are SUPPLEMENTAL restraints. The front seatbelts are designed to reel out under heavy loads and let you hit the airbag that's supposedly there. I'm glad you wear your seatbelt and drive defensively and sit in a huge peice of metal and plastic, but that has little to do with a giant cushion or air punching you in the face at the wrong time during a collission when you're three inches away from eating the plastic steering wheel.
  • kermitekkermitek Member Posts: 120
    maxintosh -


    1. It appears you contradicted yourself in two ways in part (1) of your #3342. First - obviously it is relevant whether the object you hit is deformable. But with that knowledge, how can it be said that "NHTSA's test is like hitting a car dead on"? At best, one might be able to say it resembles an "Incredibly rigid car fixed to a stationary barrier". But even that is reaching. And the only way in which IIHS's tests resemble hitting a real vehicle, aside from the barrier's deformation, is if in real life you hit a vehicle with exactly the same mass, crush characteristics, dynamic state, and frictional interaction with the road. Quite a tall order. What I was getting at before is that in the real world, you only get to choose your own vehicle, not the mass of the one you hit.


    2. Your opinion, while valid, contrasts with mine. I believe GM still is an incredible company and they continue to be in the lead in technical innovation. Any other companies offering Night Vision Enhancement, an active safety feature? Guess not. HUD and OnStar - which alerts emergency personnel the moment your airbag deploys? Nope (although OnStar may soon become available via license for some other makes). I don't have time to list more. BTW here's a couple links for you to research, validating that GM was first to sell airbags to the public, in 1974 Buicks.


    http://members.aol.com/carleyware/library/timeline.htm


    http://www.motorage.com/edindex/1970.htm


    3. Perhaps I should have clarified, if you look at www.nhtsa.org you will see I meant three stars for the Aztek driver (of five OF COURSE) and four of Five for the front passenger. Your comment about Chrysler is an artful dodge (no pun intended) but does nothing to refute my point that every mfgr. has a spread of safety results for their products and some non-GM offerings are quite poor.


    4. no comments needed since there is no hope of refuting the point - as made clear by your lack of response


    5. I neglected to mention before another source of our peace of mind - an extensive list of active safety features on the Aztek, including ABS, TCS, automatic door locks, HUD, and steering wheel stereo controls. Not to mention the other passive SUPPLEMENTAL restraint - side airbags, standard equipment (why ON EARTH are they OPTIONAL on some Toyotas and Fords?)

  • maxintoshmaxintosh Member Posts: 39
    I correct myself that the government's tests are more demanding on restraints systems and the IIHS's tests are more demanding on structure.

    I have no idea how to make RRRs more accurate but IMO they're total BS and shouldn't be publicized until someone comes up with something more intellegent.

    I agree wholeheartedly that side impact airbags should be standard. I personally like the Volkswagen approach best, though. ALL their vehicles (except the New Beetle and TT, which have head protection built into the side airbags) have front, side, and head curtain airbags STANDARD. VW will also have ESP/ASR standard on all models soon, too. Now that's caring.

    BTW, OnStar is available in several manufacturers, including Audi and Saab. I hear good things about it, but it has little to do with automotive engineering. Maybe GM should develop further in communications.
  • kermitekkermitek Member Posts: 120
    One last thing about Physics 101 - in a real crash, kinetic energy is not conserved since some is spent deforming the cars involved. So the ideal structure is the one absorbing the most crash energy without collapsing to the point of trapping/crushing occupants. But if one vehicle is more massive than the other, the lighter one gets a disproportionate share of new acceleration and velocity, with correspondingly higher injury rates/severity for those inside.

    VW has some good cars, no doubt. It's nice how they "care". It's also nice to be able to choose freely among a spread of safety ratings among all available vehicles. Why doesn't the US Government mandate that all vehicles get 5 (out of Five) NHTSA stars? Because many consumers realize that it costs money to comply with yet more regulations, and tradeoffs would come along with such compliance. Toyota for example has great safety ratings on its Sienna - and we priced them before we got our Aztek (even though the Sienna's styling is stupifyingly boring IMHO). But a Sienna would have stickered $3k more than our Aztek, comparably equipped, and still not had the HUD, steering wheel stereo controls, 6-disk CD changer, bold styling, or camping capability which came on our Aztek. It's nice to be free to make such a choice!

    maxintosh - are you aware that Saab is a GM subsidiary?

    Also - a strange idea, that - to believe OnStar is not part of automotive engineering...
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    But if one vehicle is more massive than the other, the lighter one gets a disproportionate share of new acceleration and velocity, with correspondingly higher injury rates/severity for those inside.

    I don't mean to quibble but the interaction is not disproportionate! The momentum transfer is, in fact, proportional: m1dv1 = -m2dv2

    tidester
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  • kermitekkermitek Member Posts: 120
    Yes - I agree it is linear not exponential. Maybe a better word to get my meaning across would be, its a "SHOCKING" amount of new acceleration to be endured by the hapless occupants of the lighter car, who may have been lulled into false security by the NHTSA and IIHS ratings, and thought they were invincible in their amazing little car, until they groggily notice they are suddenly hurtling backwards at 30+ MPH while the Suburban or Aztek that just hit them is stationary with the unharmed occupants climbing out.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Well said!

    tidester
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  • corey76corey76 Member Posts: 63
    I'm picking it up next week going to test drive it tonight though, I'll tell you about it later tonight possibly in the morning.
  • kermitekkermitek Member Posts: 120
    So what's on it... and what color? tell us your initial impressions from your first drive!
  • zircon2zircon2 Member Posts: 94
    Some people want to delude themselves. The size of the opposing vehicle is a red herring. The new Civic was just rated one of the 10 safest vehicles of all time despite its size. The crash photos of the Montana-Aztek minivan family are scary - broken legs, possible head and neck injury. I understand people who own teks really like them, but you cannot whitewash the safety tests. I am not basing GM here, simply asking: why can't the general be the one at the top of the safety stats instead of Euro and Japanese producers?

    Chrysler almost apologized when they brought their new minivan out stating that they would have designed it differently (more $) had they known safety would sell. Right now, they are apparently playing with their new van-wagon Pacifica to get its safety up to a high level. Every manufacturer shoud do this, right?
  • kermitekkermitek Member Posts: 120
    Zircon2 - did you have anyone specific in mind when you spoke of people deluding themselves? Or is it just a rash generalization... because I have made it clear I am under no veil of fantasy about where our Aztek's safety stands. It's mid-pack, nothing more and nothing less (with the exception of its BEST EVER rollover rating).

    Only folks lacking a grasp of basic physics can earnestly proclaim mass to be a red herring. It matters... A LOT in real crashes. A good star rating is a big help, no doubt. But it's only part of the equation.

    Want to talk about broken legs? OK take a look at some femur loads from www.nhtsa.org:

    format: model - NHTSA d/p stars - drvr.left - drvr.rt - pass.left - pass.rt

    Pontiac Aztek 3/4 268 290 321 270
    Nissan Quest 5/5 531 814 571 798
    Honda Passport 4/4 624 895 900 993

    Hmmm... wonder what it would feel like to have a 993 lb load imposed on my upper right leg bone!

    GM is below the top of the crashworthiness heap for a variety of reasons. One of the big ones is that consumers have made it clear the safety ratings are just one of many features they want, including performance, versatility, value, styling and - lest we forget - ACTIVE safety features. Aztek delivers it all.
  • gregeastongregeaston Member Posts: 128
    ...The size of the opposing vehicle is a red herring...

    Yeah. Tell that to the kid in the Civic that gets slammed into at highway speeds by a Chevy Suburban.

    I'm sure both drivers have the same exact chance of survival.
  • gmpmgmpm Member Posts: 1
    If anyone thinks they would be safer in a Honda Civic than an Aztek in a collision they need to go back to school. Crash test ratings is based on a vehicle hitting a barrier at a pre-defined speed. A collision between two vehicles adds another factor to the equation: the weight of the vehicle hitting you. If a compact car collides with a bigger vehicle, the compact will be getting hit with alot more force. (due to the greater weight of the larger vehicle)

    When comparing crash test results, I would stick to comparing vehicle of similar size and weight only. In a true world crash, it is always safer in a larger and heavier vehicle.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I'd rather be in an Aztek than a Civic if I was being hit or smashing into another car.
  • nextmoonnextmoon Member Posts: 386
    Crash tests measure only a limited number of factors and cannot possibly cover all the real world scenarios. The main point is that crash tests measures how well a vehicle survives against another similar vehicle. So a Civic's high marks only reflects how well it does against another Civic. Put an Civic against an Accord and the numbers will change; against a Sienna and it would vary further.
  • maxintoshmaxintosh Member Posts: 39
    Kindly remember that the Honda Passport is not a Honda at all but an Isuzu and is being canned very soon in favor of an MDX-based SUV. And the MDX is a "Best Pick" (actually, Acura predicted it would be), so one can image the Pilot will be too.

    Size is relevant in head-on collissions especially. It doesn't matter as much if you rear-end a car or side swipe one.

    Height is especially important in side impact collissions. However, the IIHS set up a real world collission between a big old Ford pickup truck and a Volvo and BMW sedan where the Ford truck struck it directly in the side at a small angle. The head impact curtains in the Volvo and the sausage in the BMW reduced the loads on the dummy's heads (which were at the same level as the hood of the truck) to completley tolerable levels.

    Also, Audi did a real world test once between the A3, a compact Golf-sized hatchback and the A8 -- a real tank of a luxury car. They collided head-on offset to strike on both driver's side. The A3 certainly had significantly more damage done to its body and engine, and was pretty much totalled. Yet the car, which earned top marks in the Euro NCAP test, kept the injury measures on the dummies in very low and certainly survivable.

    Also consider that it's harder to avoid collissions in an SUV and they're more likely to roll over.

    In the end, injury claim measures are somewhat lower on SUVs, but not nearly TWICE as low as kermetic would like to suggest.

    The fact is, engineering is just as important as mass. A compact car with good crumple zones, a rigid occupant protection cell, strong pillars and door frames, front, side, and head impact airbags, seatbelt pretensioners and load limiters, and good head restraints will be just fine for anybody who doesn't need to go off roading, transport an entire soccer team, or swallow huge amounts of cargo.

    SUVs and trucks that fail to conform with crash compatability regulations, which aren't enforced, are the problem. Those cars have weak bumpers which often sit to high and make the car "ride over" its victim.
  • kermitekkermitek Member Posts: 120
    OK maxintosh, here's some more data, including a prestigious Lexus and a couple TRUE Hondas:

    format: model - NHTSA d/p stars - drvr.left - drvr.rt - pass.left - pass.rt

    Pontiac Aztek 3/4 268 290 321 270
    Lexus RX300 4/5 1556 1952 1032 513 *Oh My God!!!*
    Honda Civic 5/5 410 573 840 526
    Honda Odyssey 5/5 605 644 606 684
    Mercury Mountaineer 4/4 1078 1355 942 826

    Aztek is kinder on your legs than all the above vehicles. Lexus - shame on you!

    I could not find any results for Audi A3's or A8's at NHTSA - but the A6 scored only "acceptable" in IIHS offset tests, including a rating of "marginal" for both legs/feet injury.

    I'm still trying to discern where I said anything about SUV injury claims being twice as low.... although it wouldn't surprise me.

    If you feel safe in a compact car with the design attributes you listed - great! Go for it. Just remember that on average you're EIGHT times more likely to die than me, if my twice-as-heavy vehicle hits you. With all the features you listed, maybe it's only FOUR times. Kinetic energy is directly proportional to mass and the square of velocity. Whatever energy your structure cannot absorb, will instead be presented as a new and suddenly different acceleration/velocity for you to endure. In fact, the lighter car is also more likely to receive the added bonus of a second collision (now with NO airbag) after the first, since they are often still moving!
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