SPORTS CARS OF THE '70s

martian

How did they come up with those colors? Alfas were sedate-but FIATs came over with weird shades-like that bile green, or neon orange. I also remember s kind of murky brown.
The Ita;lians always seemed to ahve some of the weirdest paint colors I ever saw.

andys120

A lot of folks would say that Fiat's colors were sedate compared to Porsche's. During the 1970s they went especially wild with lurid yellows (similar to the Positano Yellow on Fiats), oranges loud greens and so on. It was the 70s but I guess Porsche was the only upscale make to indulge in those colors. Downscale they were quite common, particularly on Muscle cars (Plum Crazy, Gang Green).

Porsche 914>



BTW I'm sure Alfa offered the GTV 1750/2000 and the Giulia TI in mustard yellow .

texases

Speaking of Porsche colors, can somebody explain to me why they (or is it Ruf) seem to like these colors a LOT?


Such as:

Mr_Shiftright

Someday I'm gonna put a Boxster engine in a 914 and turn it into a weapons grade two seater. We have the technology, we have the skill, we do NOT have the money.

lemmer

Wouldn't you be just as well off with a 3.2L air cooled in it?

Mr_Shiftright

Well the Boxster is already mid-engined so I'm thinking it's more compact and workable.

I've driven a 914/6 and it's not for the timid. I think about 200HP is more than enough.

Besides, I'd want to get rid of the 914 transmission entirely and it seems to me that if would be more feasible to plug in the Boxster engine/trans.

hpmctorque

I guess dreams can be weird, but a lot of trouble, time and expense for what? Okay, you'd have a sleeper, but who'd care?

Mr_Shiftright

True enough in the case of most projects like this, except that the 914 is really a very clever and useful little car, and an extremely competent- handling car. The purpose of building it would be to have an exciting car to drive, with two trunks, a targa top, 30+ mpg and not just another of the gazillion Boxsters on the road. And I could build it way under the price of a new Boxster S.

Fact is, anything stock from the 70s that I can afford is not very exciting, and the ones that are exciting are way too expensive for me.

hpmctorque

The uniqueness of having such a vehicle is a valid point, as would be the satisfaction derived from building it. Also, you'd be saving a old car that might otherwise go to the crusher before very long.

In the past year or so I've read that Porsche is considering building a sports car priced below the Boxter. If it does, maybe that would be the spiritual successor to the 914.

Mr_Shiftright

Not a bad idea. The Boxster has been given over to the upper middle class, mostly women, and many with automatic transmissions. Sneaking in under that and snagging some of the Miata/Honda/Mini/VW market for two seat roadsters/ small cabriolets, might be a clever move---in the $28K--$32K range. The Boxster has become the car for the person who can't quite pull the trigger on a 997, so the Baby Boxster could be the car for those that can't pull the trigger on the regular Boxster.

kyfdx

can't pull the trigger

Where I come from, that's just being poor...

Mr_Shiftright

Well there's a difference between poverty and not being able to buy a Porsche.

Besides, being "poor" doesn't stop Americans. You could probably buy a brand new Boxster on a credit card down payment if you have an 800+ credit score.

kyfdx

Good credit is a dangerous thing.. I'm pretty sure I could have a 911 Turbo in my driveway, tomorrow...

So, the boy goes to community college, instead of Vanderbilt... so what? :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly---love dies but possessions are forever :P

martian

I would love to have a GTV sport sedan, as a daily driver. Are these rerasonably priced? And, are spare parst an issue? My local Alfa shop just closed-the guy there told me that p[arts for the Spyders were no problem-not sure about the GTV.

Mr_Shiftright

I presume you mean the V6 GTVs?

They are cheap, but finding a really good one is not easy---and then you have to convince the previous owner, who no doubt spent a fortune making it a nice one, to let it go for the current market value. It's a hard car to buy and a hard car to sell.

Mechanical parts should be no problem, but interior and exterior trim pieces won't be easy.

I'm guessing, that for any GTV V6 that is not a project, basket case, rust bucket, mis-wired, patched up pile of junk, brutalized badly tuned science experiment, etc. (that is, most of them) then something like $4500 should get the job done.

A fun car, but be prepared to reject a lot of them and to have work to do on the one you do buy. Watch out for bad 1st and 2nd gear synchros, electrical gremlins, trashed interiors (broken seats, switches, etc) and tired suspension.

This is one car where patience really is rewarded.

hpmctorque

I agree with everything you said except your last sentence.

Last Saturday I spent a couple of hours looking at dozens of Alfas at the 100th Centennial gathering near Frederick, MD, and chatting with owners. My brother (who once owned an Alfa) and I concluded that, while they're very interesting cars, we wouldn't want to own one.

I like Alfas, but I couldn't justify the expense and hassle of owning an old one. I wouldn't buy a new one, either, should they be reintroduced in the U.S. I might consider a 2-3 year old one, kind of in the same spirit as buying a depreciated Saab or Audi, but would stay away from new and old ones.

Mr_Shiftright

I think my last sentence had two meanings----the one I intended was that "patience" would be good while LOOKING for a GTV V-6----not that patience would make it run better once you owned it!

If I had Jay Leno's money, I'd stuff an Alfa 164LS motor into a late model Spider, like a 1993. And I'd run an aftermarket fuel injection system on it that I dialed in myself.

hpmctorque

Ah, okay.

Yeah, with Leno's money you could buy and do a lot of neat things. Come to think of it, my garage might not be too different from his.

oregonboy

Personally, I think that the last desirable GTV was rear wheel drive and built in 1974.

(My apologies if I have exceeded Edmunds ridiculous 1/2 page width limitation. :sick: )

74 Alfa GTV - Chicago Area

lemko

Jay Leno has a garage with it's own kitchen with a Viking range in it. I saw an episode of "My Classic Car" on the Speed Channel where the host interviewed Jay Leno. He seems like a pretty cool guy to hang out with on an afternoon.

kyfdx

Now that is an awesome car.. I love the late '60s, early '70s euro coupes...

Mr_Shiftright

Great car, really fun to drive---alas, now getting very valuable and no longer available for chump change. Seems like the only way to buy an early GTV is already DONE, and be prepared to pay $15K--$25K for a nice one without swiss-cheese body and mangled mechanicals.

andys120

....be prepared to pay $15K--$25K for a nice one without swiss-cheese body and mangled mechanicals.

That's a bargain for one of the best looking and most useful Gran Turismos ever built.

Mr_Shiftright

Compared to buying a stone-age Chevelle "clone" of similar vintage and price, yes indeed. But compared to a Fiat 124 sport coupe, or MG GT or BMW 2002 for less than half the money, then maybe not.

andys120

But compared to a Fiat 124 sport coupe, or MG GT or BMW 2002 for less than half the money, then maybe not.

I'm surprised you'd say that because every time I've described the Alfa-like qualities of the 124 Sports you're the one who jumps in and says that the Alfas are much better made (something I've kinda doubted since they got their bodies from the same place and their electrics and switchgear are mostly (ugh!) Marelli and they usually all had Weber carbs, I know... some Alfas had SPICA F.I.---I'll take the Webers thank you).

I find myself doubting you could find a very nice 2002 for the same dough.

I like MGB-GTs but it was only half the car the Alfa GTVs were

Mr_Shiftright

Oh 2002s are CHEAP right now, especially if you pick the later "square tail light" models. You could probably buy 3 2002s for one nice GTV. Of course, a late 2002 is heavy, slow and not a whole lotta fun to drive, and no 4 cylinder German engine of the day revs like a 1750 Alfa motor. Your only equivalent to a GTV would be the 2002 Tii, and they are still not as pricey (but getting close).

Fiats are cheaper than Alfas...perhaps not as vast a difference as between a VW and a Porsche from the 60s, that's true, but the Alfa uses better materials all 'round and fit and finish are better. Fiats in the 60s really were quite cheesy.

I personally wouldn't be quick to diss the MG GT---this is a very pleasant well-made car---somewhat stone-age compared to a GTV or a 2002---but fun to drive, with a torquey engine, and great utility as a little hatchback. Also much easier to fix than the German or Italian equivalents, (you could repair one shopping for parts at Home Depot) and much cheaper and easier parts accessibility. You could mail order an entire MGB in pieces to your house if you wanted to. You can even buy new bodies for them. Neither BMW nor Alfa has this level of aftermarket support--although both are good relative to most 70s cars.

Another nice MGB-GT feature is the overdrive transmission.

martian

Shifty, thanks for your opinion. Would a 4 cylinder GTV be a better option? Kinda slow, but the Alfa 4 is fun to wind up.
I have a problem-my local Alfa mechanic has closed up shop and retired!

Mr_Shiftright

You mean the Alfetta GT, 1975-79? No, I don't recommend buying one of those. If you mean the earlier GTV---you can make those go pretty fast actually, with some imagination.

jrosasmc

Have you ever owned or driven a Fiat 850 Spider, the little cars that were designed by Bertone and made in the early 70s? I just saw one this morning and I thought, boy is that thing tiny!

I also read somewhere that it was extremely vulnerable to rust.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah a while back I drove one. Pretty gutless, cheaply built. Not very exciting but pleasant enough on a summer's day--if you aren't in a hurry.

jrosasmc

IIRC, the 850 Spiders used a 904cc 4-cylinder engine (or something like that). Less than a liter!? I wouldn't want to be in a collision with, say, a Suburban or Explorer if I owned one.

texases

"I wouldn't want to be in a collision with, say, a Suburban or Explorer if I owned one. "

Or a Civic, or a smart...or a Labrador retriever...