All About Packards

gkelly3gkelly3 Member Posts: 38
Mr. Shiftright-check out this month's issue of
FORBES magazine. There is a guy who is planning to
revive the PACKARD name-he bought the rights for
$50,000., and plans to produce an all-aluminum,
luxury sedan next year. He seems to be
well-capitalized, but what do you think of his
chances? The name is rather old-I can't believe
that anybody under 45 has much familiarity with it.


  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    His chances? Less than zero...he should pay attention to the corpses of similar revivals....Duesenberg, Bugatti, Cord to name a few. Those days are over. Any car that wishes to compete in the modern world would have to look and perform so differently that the connection to the old names is pretty meaningless anyway. And if he's planning to build a replica of the old car, he'll surely fail. This is a notoriously unprofitable enterprise, and often makes a mockery of the original car (Bugatti revival excepted--a magnificent car that still failed).
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    I beleive a couple of visionaries with radical new cars tried that before. Tucker and DeLorean, if I recall their names. I wonder whatever happened to those two :-)?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    The last person to successfully put his name on a car that didn't die immediately was Walter Chrysler in 1924.
  • dranoeldranoel Member Posts: 79
    Did any single independent auto manufacturer beat Packard's record of 57 years (of real Packards, not Studebaker-Packards), and still fail ?
  • giacgiac Member Posts: 1
    I was recently travelling and flipped thru a car had a picture of a car they called the new packard 12...a four door new sedan, with a high grill in the center, high headlights, and french curves/hood slope between them almost to bumper level...the back end looks pregnant. Wh is making this car and are there other models?...i can't find anything on the net, and can't remember the car mag i saw it in.....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Well, Studebaker produced cars for 62 years before failing, but not as an independent, so I guess Packard does hold that record as near as I can tell.

    Oldest existing domestic nameplate is, of course Olds-mobile, and may be the oldest existing in the entire world (don't say Benz, they were merged with Mercedes in 1926). Fiat and Peugeot are 1899, Renault is 1898, but Olds is 1896.

    I'm still thinking...
  • heimyheimy Member Posts: 13
    Buick is 1903. I've got a '53 Buick with a 50th Anniversary emblem on the steering wheel.

    Anybody under 45 remembering Packard...highly unlikely. I'm 46, so I just made the cut. My grandpa had a '49, a big ugly ol' bathtub of a car. Personally, I think the '57 Hawk looks kinda cool...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Yeah, it does, but that's a Studebaker, not a Packard. No real Packards after 1956.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Pretty pathetic at the end, huh--28.835 cars. No way to run a railroad. Poor Packard was really dead even before World War II, I think. They just hung on another 11 years, but they weren't all that much fun for the company.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Actually, every book you read on the subject has a different number it seems, but she's probably right, or close...the 1937 and 1949 numbers are very close and I think it depends on how you count them, from calendar year (jan. to jan.) or fiscal year, from 9-36 to 9-37, etc. This is probably where the discrepancies come up, and why 1949 comes out first sometimes. I think the difference between the two years can't be more than a few thousand, maybe 5,000 at most. 1949 was popular because the automatic came out then.
  • dranoeldranoel Member Posts: 79
    Boy it's quiet in here---not many Packard fans on the internet, I guess. It's been 44 years since the last real Packard was produced. Most Packards have been off the road for many years and even the "beater" Packards have been off the road for about 25 years. I'm sure the bulk of the "Packardaphiles" are above 50++ (as I am). Oh well the site has some activity.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I'm probably a fairly typical boomer, and I grew up in the '50s seeing lots of Packards, but most of them were pretty strange-looking, except for the '55-6s. That may explain the lack of interest: not many of us can remember the classic Packards.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Packard styling postwar from 1946 was unfortunate...but financially the company wasn't all that strong anyway...the styling just helped to drag it down. 1955 was a pretty bad car, 1956 made a lot of improvements, but all too late. The really great Packards were made in the 1930s, and upon those few years the entire reputation of the company rests I think.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    I was watching the "My Classic Car" TV show recently, and one of the cars on the show was a 47 Packard fastback 2dr, which had been made in to a street rod, with a big block Chev, etc. The
    body had undergone a few mods, all of which, to me, seemed to enhance the styling of the car. Now I know most of the true classic "Packardophiles" out there might detest such a car, but to me, it seemed like kind of a tribute that someone would spend that much money to make an old Packard into a street rod. Actually, I kinda liked it. A change from the standard 30's-40's something Chevy-Ford street rods.
    I remember an uncle of mine, [who drove Nashes exclusively] once bought a '47 Packard 2dr, like this rod I saw, to pull his travel trailer. This was in 1957. I thought it was interesting at the time that he'd bought a 10 year old Packard to pull his travel trailer.
  • FREDERICKFREDERICK Member Posts: 228
    I'm 36 and I love Packards because no body in my generation or younger even knows what the hell they are. Over the course of my restoration I've exposed countless younger guys to what this great old dame of a brand use to be.

    My bathtub 49 may not be a looker to a lot of you older folks but man does that art deco dash, bulbous body lines, and endless flat head eight amaze the younger generation. When these twenty somethings see that huge 6 volt battery slowly chugh, chugh, chugh..........whirrr to start that smooth running flat head eight they can't believe their eyes.

    I'm certainly not the standard Packard owner but let me tell you I can't wait to get this car finished and hook it up to my Aerostream trailer for a weekends down at San Onofre State Beach Park with long Boards, roof racks, and all. There aint a surf'n rig like this on the entire coast of Califonia!
  • billy9billy9 Member Posts: 19
    I think that's cool. I know what you mean I'm 38 and bought a 56 Mercury. Probably not a car that most people of that era would want, but sure is cool to me, I like em different. I think the back quarters look a little like the '56 Packard.
  • FREDERICKFREDERICK Member Posts: 228
    Mercs from the 50's always seem to make great chop jobs and or low riders. Packards by the mid 50's had mostly become pretty pathetic pieces of junk except maybe the Carribeans, and even those are a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to own and maintain.

    A couple of years ago at a Packard Club event I saw an orginal low mileage 57 Packard Country Sedan Station Wagon with factory blower V-8. The owner said it was a rocket but man did it look like it'd been slapped together with whatever they could find in the parts bin that day.

    I'd probably have bought that car if I saw it today because it was just so frickn unique and ugly to boot. Damn the rear of that car was weird! I've never seen another one of those cars since.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I know that i am the first to post here in three months, so i hope there is somebody ou there.
    I am 37 years old, not your typical Packard fan,
    but i have always liked the cars.
    I am interested in the the cars built from about 1934-1939.
    Does anybody have any suggestions on what i should buy as a novice?
    Should i get a $5000-6000 beater or move up to something in the $15,000 plus range.
    I am not interested in a convertible. Just the sedans.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Probably a Junior Eight (120) coupe would be your best bet...your won't have to pay the premium price for a Senior Eight car. The six cylinder cars are the cheapest but they are, correspondingly, not as good investments if you start restoring one. But a 120 coupe can be a fun car and quite handsome, even though by this time Packard was borrowing quite heavily from GM styling.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Should read. I kind of came to that feeling myself.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Thank you sir. I had kind of come to that feeling myself. I definitely want an eight.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Whatever happened with the auction of the Packard name? Does anybody know who bought it and how much it went for? I think it took place on ebay.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I've noticed that a few of the "bathtub" Packards from the late 1940s are bringing some pretty good prices...part of that is the strong economy of course. But still, this is an improvement for the postwar Packards, most of which, except for the ultra fancy Caribbean convertibles of 55-56, have languished in the collector car market.

    However, I also noticed that the ONLY 4-door postwar Packards bringing serious money are really restored to a magnificent condition. This seems to be the New Rule of the collector car hobby, now that buyers are so much more knowledgable and fussy then they were in the 1980s. They'll pay, but they want only the best and the rest be damned.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    The same's true of houses, at least in my area, so I think maybe that's part of a larger trend. The reason I get is that buyers are too busy to do fix up work themselves or supervise contractors. And maybe a lot of us are into instant gratification these days, and are willing and able to pay for it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I can only presume that it is true for Packards as for any other car, that these days "all the easy restorations have been done already" that means that the beautiful cars will be preserved but the bigtime rusty projects won't be, as they are not worth the cost of restoration unless you are doing it for therapy or some such. Problem is, cars like packards and cadillacs are BIG cars, so to restore one from a wreck is not only not worth the money, but maybe not worth the human effort. Hard to say, it depends on the model and the overall condition.

    A sedan like, say, a supercharged Stutz from the 20s, you'd restore that no matter how bad it was, because you can hang a $300,000+ pricetag on it. But when confronted with a maximum value for a 4-door postwar Packard of perhaps $30-35K in Pebble Beach show condition, and a cost of $75,000 to get there, what is the motivation? This is even more true for "lesser" postwar 4-doors, such as the lower-priced cars from the Big Three or Studebaker or Nash.

    Yes, the postwar glory is definitely going to 50s coupes and converts and 60s muscle cars. This is where all the action is right now.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    I suspect that's where the action is because we boomers are fueling the market. I wonder what will happen when enough of us are beyond collecting old cars to be a presence in the market. Will younger buyers gravitate to the same cars because post-1970 cars are too ordinary and/or complicated to restore, or will there be a much smaller market for collector cars?
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Sometimes you restore a car for sentimental reasons. I see a lot of packards advertised that say "must sell soon or will part out". I look at the picture of the car and it looks pretty good to me. Why would somebody want to part out a car like this. Also i can't believe people are still turning these things into hot rods.
    I originally was interested in buying a Packard 120, but am now leaning towards something mid to late '20s. I think they are a little more unique looking. I believe it was Mr. Shiftright who said that the later '30s cars were starting to look too GM like.
    Got the "Fall of the Packard Motor Car Company" for Christmas and it is good but depressing.
    I am hoping there will be renewed interest in cars of this era by collectors. I am 38 years old and would really like to participate in the Packard Clubs.
    Too bad they are saddled with 6 volt charging systems, it really makes it difficult to use these cars on a regular basis.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Spent a bout an hour last night on the PAC site.
    Their showroom section has a lot of great photos.Its amazing to think how many different models there were available. Most of the people who are involved in the hobby seem to be getting up in age, it needs some new blood if it is going to thrive.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Unfortunately the Packard does not have much youth appeal, so mostly we see the older more affluent collectors who are collecting or restoring only the top of the line Packards. Packard made very good cars (usually) but they were a very conservative company and their styling reflects this. And, as you know, a car's "looks" is very important these days both in new and collector cars.

    I think the reason the more "common" Packards are being parted out is that in the current market they are simply not worth restoring, and if they are the 4-door cars from say the 1920s and late 40s, early 50s especially, they probably won't ever be worth restoring. Even when we've seen 4-door cars bringing $30,000 as magnificent restorations, that is a loss for the restorer.

    Basically, I think that unless a 4-door car is coachbuilt (custom body), it's a struggle to attain any kind of substantial value. The body style is often not very attractive, and the numbers produced too high (4-doors are always made in much larger proportion to their coupe and convertible brethren).

    The Packard story is depressing. It only goes to prove, once again, that just because very well dressed men sit around large boardroom tables and talk in serious and somber tones, it doesn't mean they know what they are doing.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I guess i just have a soft spot for that grille.
    It just seems a shame to see that old fabric lost.
    Here in chas. sc we have very strict guidelines as to what we can do to our historic houses. This perserves the building fabric, but makes it very expensive to do a restoration.
    We still have old houses and barns being torn down and their wood used to perserve and build new houses, so i guess the parting out of an auto is no different than reclaiming heart pine from and old building.
    One 4 door i do like a lot is the club sedan. It has a beefier look and has more presence than the other 4 doors.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Ah, but it's only because that house sits in Charleston that it's being preserved. Old cars don't have the luxury of being valued based on which garage they are in...if "location, location, location" makes a house valuable, I guess that "condition, condition, condition" is waht gives an old car value. No one would part out a low mileage original Packard 4-door in beautiful shape, but they'd snatch parts off an old rust bucket in a red hot minute don't you know.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    If i were interested in , say a 1936 120 that was in very good condition, possibly an older restoration with very good paint(important to me).
    Should i spend $25,000 for it? Should i go get a $15,000 nice driver or a $5-6000 near basket case that runs. I have always heard (even with '60s musclecars) that you should buy the vehicle in better condition. What do you think? What about the '20s cars with either the solid or artillery wheels, will these go up a couple thousand a year or stagnate.
    Is it because these cars are not especially fun to drive that they are not appreciating? or is it just the baby boomer equation that is driving the '60s cars?
    I have lots of questions as you can see.
    I may just buy the one that i like and not be to concerned with future value...maybe.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Your last sentence interests me, because that's one of the basic issues whenever you're sinking a sizeable chunk of money into an investment or hobby or investment/hobby. I'm just speculating, based on almost twenty years of buying and selling special interest cars, and also on any lessons I can take from real estate. I wonder what Shiftright's take on this would be.

    The pros to buying what you like, and not going after potential price appreciation, are that you're not going to have much competition. In fact, you might be the only buyer for certain cars in a slow market. That certainly keeps your initial investment low. You get the driving experience, you get to sit in your garage with a beer and admire it, and you get to tell your friends you have one, all of this for relatively little money.

    The downside is that a car like that is an illiquid asset. If you need to convert it into cash quickly to pay bills or get another car, you'll either take a beating or maybe not even be able to find a buyer. And any major work done to the car won't appreciably increase its value--you get no return on your investment.

    Is that about right?
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    You are correct. But am i missing something as to why the '20s 4 door sedans are not as popular. Is it just because it is boxy looking or are there maintenance issues that preclude anyone but the very rich from actually using the car? There were improvements in the later '30s cars that would make them more driveable.
    Lastly, my feeling is that these cars should be restored. I would think that eventually they will come up to a value that will makie it worthwhile.
    Depending on condition and popularity of course.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    From the performance cars i have owned a lot of the enjoyment is in working on them, I might very well do the same with a packard. Once its finished it might be sold. As you know people sell
    cars for less than they paid for them all the time. Story of my life and probably most other people's too.
    Happy New Year!!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I think you hit the nail right on the head...most 20s cars are not very popular because they aren't fun to drive....oh, sure, they are great for taking the kids to the store for ice cream once a week, but there is very little practical use.

    Compare that to a 50s,60s or 70s car, which you can drive on modern highways (usually) or even race on weekends, depending on the vehicle.

    Last of all, a big Packard 4-door from the 20s, especially the lower level models, are not terribly attractive...they pretty much look like any other plain jane (plain john?) 20s car. You might as well buy a Model A, and save an enormous sum on restoration costs. Packards are not a cheap car to restore by any means, and parts are tough to find.

    There has been a definite trend in the collector car hobby to buy cars one can use and enjoy.

    I also agree that one cannot compare old cars and real estate....if, say, there were a major depression, real estate might stagnate or drop some, but collector car values go right into the toilet, except for very, very rare and exclusive models....and even those often take a terrible beating (e.g., the $7 million dollar Ferrari from 1989 now selling for 1.5 know somebody took a beating on that one).
  • FREDERICKFREDERICK Member Posts: 228
    What a discussion n I missed the whole thing. Thanks Shiftright, b4z n speedshift. Finally an interesting discussion on Packard from at least some folks near my age bracket. b4z take heart, there is at least on other whacko out there that enjoys Packards at an even younger age than you, 35 here, been at it since 25.

    Shiftright, I had to chuckle to myself a little out loud as I read your responses to b4z because you were so right on the money but obviously overcome by years of wisdom. Passion, for the most part, is what I think starts us all down the road of auto restoration but ultimatly over time that passion fades to the background with wisdom. Everything you said throughout this forum seems to be mostly logical and the truth, like the Oracle at Delphi (thats not the Ford audi divission guys) but, like in the movies, just a wise deep voice coming out of no where that we all know is telling us the truth because we sought so long and hard to find you but through our own human frailty always seem to disregard.

    b4z, take heart, enjoy, and there are definitly some stories to be told about the Packard restoration field. If Shiftright thinks you are whacked, and through my own learned wisdom, I'd have to agree, then you should meet a guy named Dutch, whose passion is Packard Funneral cars. He's an undertaker so at least he has an excuse.

    Packards are very, very interesting and you certainly meet some of the most interesting people when you get involved in these cars. There always seems to be such tremendous support and help within the clubs for anybody under 45 trying to get involved with Packards because as Shirftright was trying to explain, they all know, that there is going to be almost no market for this great old brand after their generation dies. Talk about picking up some great deals on some great cars.

    I likePackard people, excentric to say the least, but it's a great network, and enjoyable folks to boot. I've gotten marginally involved with Lincolns but they are not near as personable and heck you can still buy one new anyway. So I drive a Lincoln, but I love my Packard and I'm still considering the Alpha but leaning toward one of the new Coopers. (Inside joke for Shirftright)

    Best Wishes to all Packard loving freaks

  • netranger4netranger4 Member Posts: 149
    The father of one of the boys I went to school with drove a 1925 or 1926 Packard 4dr. That car had disc wheels and was in pretty good shape. However, parallel parking was out of the question for him..watched him try it several times and finally gave up and drove off. Cleveland had a lot of old moneyed folks who drove some pretty fancy Packards as well as Cadillacs. I recall seeing a 1937 Twin-Six Limousine with an open drivers seat and a leather covering over the passenger compartment and a folding trunk rack on the rear. I rode my bike over next to it and it said Brunn, which I later found out was the body company who made it. Gorgeous. My favorite Packard was the 1939 Super Eight 4dr with sidemounted spare tires and the ever present trunk rack. The factory is still standing on E Grand Blvd in Detroit and the keystone over the door says "Packard Motor Car Co".
  • FREDERICKFREDERICK Member Posts: 228
    I love the look of the 110/120 Business Coupe. Talk about a baby that's got back! Neat car that some day I'd love to own. That car would make one helluva hot rod with a new Chevy 350. I would love to slam one of those babies some day. Guarantee the Rod clubs down south would go nuts over a titsed out Packard BC.
  • FREDERICKFREDERICK Member Posts: 228
    I saw on e-bay less than a month ago car nearly identicle to the formal you described for sale out in Durango, CO. by one of the So.Cal club founders. At least I'm 99% sure it was him. The car had two tops. No idea if it sold or at what price.
  • netranger4netranger4 Member Posts: 149
    That Packard I saw was one of two similar cars that my bicycle and I ran across during those years. The other was, I believe, a 1938 Twin Six with the same leather roof covering but did not appear to be a town car. The grille was slightly different but it had the trunk rack also. Both cars had very small semi-oval rear windows with no quarter windows. Did not see any special badging on the body like the Brunn. Every time I saw the '38 or ? it was moving whereas the other car was parked in front of an art supply store/gallery. Wish I had camera shots of all the neat cars that my bike and I saw during those early teen years.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Haven't checked into this forum for a while, but appreciate your support.

    Any Packard that i purchase will stay as original.
    Except for maybe a 12 volt system (sacrilege).
    But i actually want to drive it on a fairly regular basis and i need the reliability and cranking power of a modern 12 volt system.

    These cars are truly beautiful and have a presence
    and grace on the road that is missing in today's cars, whatever their origin or nameplate.

    There will be no hot rodded packards in my future.
    A 1957 Chevy with '90s running gear is fine, because they originally came with a small block chevy. A Packard with a small block chevy doesn't do a thing for me. I have my camaro for cruising around in.

    Still haven't bought one yet, recently purchased some real estate. Hopefully I will be in a 120 in 12 months or so.
  • FREDERICKFREDERICK Member Posts: 228
    A 120 is an excellent choice to start off with. Do not however forget my comment about the declining interest in Packards over all. Find a rare or exceedingly nice 120 or it'll most likely go no where in your life time. The market will be brutal to the whole car collecting industry in our life time. This is becoming a hobby of has beens as I divine into the future. Packard will not be known much in another 25 years.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    You may be right but I do think the really magnificent Packard cars of the thirties...some of the open, custom bodied dual phaetons, etc. or those cars connected with celebrities (Clark Gable's old car, or whatever....) will retain value.

    The problem is the "classic" issue....the people interested in these cars are getting very old, and the interest does not pass on to new generations (with some exceptions).

    But I have mentioned the name "Packard" now and then in social circles and get a blank stare from just about everyone under 50.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    "boomers" around age 50, more or less, who have sons, and students, who share our interest for cars in general, and old cars in particular, so I wouldn't just right off the old classics just yet because those who remember them new are dying off. It's encouraging for me, all the time, to meet carguys in their teens, twenties, and thirties, who have a real interest in old cars-and I mean OLD! These younguns aren't ALL into slammed Hondas with coffee can exhaust and white taillights!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    No, by no means.....they have an INTEREST in old cars, to be sure...but I don't think they have all that much interest in owning and driving some of these old monsters...younger collectors want cars they can play with on modern roads, sometimes race, take on long rallies, that sort of thing. This is why the muscle cars and post World War II sports cars are so popular and getting more so. Let's face it...driving big heavy old cars around isn't so much fun on modern roads onf the 21st centruy.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    Everytime I go to a Concours, for example, I love to watch the old Packards, Caddies, Duesies, etc, fire up and drive to their trailers, or in some cases, drive home. I think Jay Leno has the right idea-he actually drives all his cars, including the Duesies, regularly. If I had his kind of money and storage space, sure, I'd own and drive some of the old classics, but reality says I own something that's also a practical daily driver. That's why street rods are catching on-old style,with modern, upgraded drivetrains. I've seen a few of the old "heavies" from the thirties with modern drivetrains-Buicks, etc.-but they are expensive and seem to have limited appeal. So, what do you see for makes like thirties Packards 20 years from now?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I'd say unless they are special-bodied cars or open cars, they will stagnate in's really governed more or less by supply and demand, and there are enough restored Packards it's a matter of whether the monied collectors go up or down in number.

    There will always be a market for the $5,000 Packard sedan--just don't put too much money in it.

    Hey, I just found a 1935 LaSalle coupe--been stored for 25 years....perfect example of what I'm talking about...the guy wants $15K for it, and really, with restoration costs what they are, it's worth about $4,000. So it will sit there and rot until it is worth nothing I fear.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I can't see any scenario where the cars of the 20's and 30's actually go down in value. If they do go down it will affect the entire collector car industry as a whole. Like the crash in the early '90s.
    They do have a limited appeal, but the beauty of these cars in undeniable.
    At the age of 38 i may be bucking the trend, but i am convinced that i would get a great deal of pleasure in owning one.
    And it will be driven on a regular basis.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Mr. Shiftright. should this thread be renamed or should i start another one? Packard revival is not the subject.
This discussion has been closed.