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But never will those that care to throw that gauntlet admit that it is beyond indisputable that Japan plays with currency values to defend their manufacturing base. All you have to do is learn real economics and then go track national interest rates.
And pray tell what have Japanese interest rates RISEN to recently? Have they gone over a half percent?
The fact is currency manipulation is protectionism and by doing it it is in the long term a subsidy paid by the market that has the higher rate and the trade imbalance.
Don't get it yet? Well the executives at Toyota do. They freely admit that nearly 20% of their profits come from currency exchanges.
BTW, the 2009 Pilot? It better do something right because nobody will buy it for looks. Kinda like the second generation Scion XB which is doing a great job covering storage lots. Now there's mediocre.
Yep, absolutely fair. Example: Ford Taurus, huge win for Ford when first introduced. Then they let it go to crap, with poor interior quality and technology, and let Honda and Toyota pass them while doing nothing to improve the car, assuming the american buyer will not be able to tell the difference. Now that's mediocre. Oh, and by having a bad car, it also opened the door for people to try Honda's and Toyota's SUVs.
All this currency stuff is a wash, imo: it's a global economy, and the Big Three send a lot of business to Asia (all the interior plastic, for example, hence hurting plastic manufacturers/molders here in the US).
Otherwise, same basic shape as the outgoing Pilot, just bigger. That cylinder de-activation thing is cool (it can run in 4- and 3-cylinder mode, thus saving gas). I guess people who love the current Pilot design will love this one too (personally, I was never crazy about the Pilot).
Time will tell, but my guess is that the Flex might cannibalize sales away from the Explorer or Expedition, rather than the TX. Until the Flex comes out, there is no vehicle in the Ford CUV stable that can carry seven passengers and also tow 4000 pounds. If you want this feature combo, you are going to be looking at one of the Ford SUV's, and not the TX.
Besides, GM is notorious for having vehicles which directly compete against one another. Next year when the Chevy version of the lambda comes out, there is no doubt that it will cannibalize sales from your beloved Acadia. I guess GM has deemed the Acadia a failure too, huh?
Ford should compete with Toyota or Honda
If I remember correctly, the Flex and the TX are built on the same platform, so it is not like they are designing a new vehicle from the ground up. This is similar to what GM is doing with their three (soon to be four) lambdas.
Actually, one could argue that Ford is doing a better job of leveraging this common platform. At least Ford is using this platform to built vehicles which are distinct. GM is basically building three copies (Saturn/GMC/Chevy) of the same vehicle with some cosmetic changes and slapping different name badges on them.
Since when?
Or better yet, why?
You've been duped. Global economy is a two word hedge that says some countries look upon the American market as "their" property simply not because of product but because of political influence. If there was a "global economy" (which there isn't) all national interest rates would eventually float to a similar level. To put it simply, they don't. And they won't either.
Are the Big Three sending business out? They have to. They have no choice. Thanks to the ineptness of both political parties, they get absolutely no support (unlike the predators from some countries) and they cannot obtain capital at a competitive rate. In the meantime, the charlatans from Asia are buying here with capital where they pay next to nothing for.
And if it is a "global economy" why aren't the Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans paying the workers here at the same relative rate as they do at home? Same lifetime benefits, same union representation?
Do you get it yet?
By beating up on those "overpaid UAW workers" it doesn't make you any richer. And as far as the cars and trucks go, there isn't a huge gap. But you are helping throw your neighbor under the bus. But go one falling for the "global economy" crapola. May as well trust Jim Jones for a glass of KoolAid
Mediocre, dare the subject of Toyota sludge raise it's ugly head again? Or Tundra tailgates and FJ bodies? And let's not talk about the extreme corrosion issues that were a hallmark of Asian imports all through the 70s & 80s.
I'll say one last thing about this, since it's the topic of a different forum:
The Big Three decline is not due to the UAW workers: it's the Suits that made horrible decisions, especially the bean counters who toned down quality for years. Instead of trying to make better cars to gain more profit, they laid off workers. Go figure. I'm amazed that workers are still defending management's ineptitude...oh well.
The Acadia is a great car. Huge turnaround for GM. Hopefully GM management won't screw it up...
My brother n law bought a new Ridgeline last year and I was kidding him about how ugly it looked. He didn't care, he only buys hondas, if honda made underwear he would buy them. I guess that's common among many honda buyers.........
Looks like Ford has some serious potential with this technology, let's see how they execute.
Edmunds' Blog on the 09 Pilot concept:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4093
The Forester looks much better:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4097
The X6 doesn't offer much utility, but here's the link since I'm there anyway:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/.eea2390
Here's Lincoln's go at the Flex platform (I like the Ford better):
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/.eea2478
Toyota Venza non-Crossover (reverse psychology at play?):
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4118
Anyone else think they copied the MDX styling? Blatantly?
Lots of stuff at NAIAS. Anyone going?
I got the Malibu right, but I said Enclave, so I was 1 out of 2.
Anyone pick both correctly?
GM probably was hurt by having the Tahoe hybrid and Enclave competing against each other, splitting votes from GM fans.
Any how, Mazda is flying high, on cloud nine.
For those who think this award is for "Made in Japan" only, this is the first time Mazda has been awarded. Also, Malibu beat Accord, and remember these are North American journalists voting here.
But you would never know the two were related by looking at them. That's the most impressive thing about the MKT to me. I expected something completely different I have to say.
Even more than the Enclave is from the Acadia/Outlook.
Too bad the Lincoln looks...awkward.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4118
Anyone else think they copied the MDX styling? Blatantly?
You took the words right out of my mouth.
As for the new Pilot, I find it pretty disappointing. I briefly considered waiting around to buy until the Pilot design was unveiled, but I'm glad I didn't bother because the design is much to safe for my taste.
Looks like Toyota changed the grille and the color. That's about it.
I haven't even seen good photos of it, it's just not getting much coverage.
Some prelim measurements are on the Toyota press release, and you can find more coverage here.
Its about the length of a Tribeca, with the height of an Outback (as well as ground clearance), but with a longer wheelbase than either. Sounds smart to me, but not really a competitor to CUV's in this thread.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
There's no specific CUV included or excluded from this thread, best I can tell. Bring on the comparisons!
Sounds better than crossover hatchback, I suppose.
The narrarator got tangled up with the name, watch the video and he sys "Venda...Venza".
I dunno, this had better handle like a champ.
It has that pesky indicator of flabby handling on its hood... a lowercase t.
Now that's a funny post!
Just so were all on the same page, the Chrysler Pacifica defined the class and was in the market nearly two full years ahead of the FS! Know what you're talking about before proclaiming yourself an expert. Having had both through rental agencies, the Pacifica drove circles around the FS as well as having a tremendously nicer fit and finish on the interior. But I digress,...
If you think the Lamda's are a mere copy of the FS you should go to a doctor and have your eyes examined. They are far from similar, and the Enclave in particular is both more elegant AND sporty when compared to a FS/TX!
Ford brought AWD to the mainstream? Are you kidding? Audi and Subaru were GENERATIONS ahead of Ford in bringing AWD into the mainstream!!
I had my bet on the Tahoe Hybrid, but the $50k price tag is probably what did it in. GM is way off base with that pricing, sure you're helping the environment, but for $50k I can think of many other vehicles I'd rather buy than a Tahoe.
the lincoln, for as good as the flex is the lincoln is horrible and should be parked next to pilot in the design study crusher. All I can think of is "does this lincoln make my a__ look fat"? the rear of that device could not be more horrifically proportioned and the front is a face only a mother could love, the rest are all quite safe as would be expected in aim to keep market share.
Elegant is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, no 5,000+ lb utility vehicle will ever be elegant in my opinion. It's not as guilty as some Cadillac vehicles of being too bold to be elegant, however. The big nose of the Buick is sort of in-your-face. Bold, but not elegant to me. It's not bad looking at all though.
Calling a larger, heavier, Buick-tuned vehicle more sporty than ANYTHING is a funny post, however. They are more luxurious than the Ford, but I think that's where it ends.
By the way, the Chrysler Pacifica we used to move some things to the gulf coast after Hurricane Ivan was nothing worth talking about. Cheap interior plastics and poor tactile quality to the switchgear. It was less than a year old (20k miles on it) and had a couple of interior lights burned out already (such as those behind the climate controls).
We've had two Chryslers - there's a reason we didn't remain loyal to them.
Venza 189 L, 75 W, 63.4 H, 109.3 WB
Murano 188.5 L, 74.1 W, 67 H, 111.2 WB
Who said hybrids are better for the environment? Every long-term test I've seen gave vehicles like Wrangler and small ecomy cars in Europe a MUCH higher rating, they always fell in the middle of the scale, these tests take in account what it takes to build them all the way to when you need to get rid of that battery!
Great job Mazda, they had to make the car so big so nobody would miss it this time!
Roll stabillity control anybody?
Besides, 95% of the content on this thread is about the 3-row CUV (Acadia, TX, CX9, Outlook, Enclave and to lesser extent, Highlander, Tribeca and Pilot). I know what cars are listed on the column on the right, but how often does the Santa Fe, Outlander, VUE or RDX come up in this discussion thread? So a 2 row thing like the Venza that's effectively Outback size doesn't seem to really be aimed at the same market.
That said, I have weird requirements for my next vehicle...I personally want something long (for cargo and legroom) but with a shorter roof height (garage friendly with roof cargo box) and AWD. Like an R-class but reliable. So this thing is definitely on my radar screen now. :shades:
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
The class I was talking about was a CUV that could carry 6-7 adults plus luggage. The Pacifica couldn't carry much of anything behind the 3rd row and only held 6 pass despite being so wide. And is the Pacifica AWD? I'm not sure.
CUV like the lambdas, CX-9, etc are in the same class as the TX/FS, since they can hold 3 rows of adults plus luggage. So that's the class of CUVs I'm talking about, adults in all rows plus a good amount of luggage space behind the 3rd row.
Plus I'm not talking about exterior sheet metal, but rather the interior capabilities.
Oh- I could point out several times your use of "Ford wins" but why? You haven't shown me any examples of my saying Honda wins (I know I have, but I'm going to do as much work as you did).
If you still think it was reverse sensors then either find the post where you made that statement or find them on this page which is the official Honda Pilot specs page on the Honda web site. Go ahead and build a top of the line Pilot while you're there too. You'll see the same thing I do which is that reverse sensors are a dealer installed option and do not come from the factory standard or not.
I know they are a dealer option- but dealer option is still an option.
I think the Outlook gets 18/19 and 24/26.
The Lincoln looked great- until I saw the back. Hpefully they were being creative- CONCEPT creative and not production creative. If they reshape that butt, this could be a hit seller.
And that Venza does look like an MDX (actually, maybe better).
Yes Pacifica has option AWD.
And we all know your TX is best in class with the lowest sales numbers. Is it something telling you?
Useless arguments.
The Pacifica is (and was) available in AWD long before the FS. And neither the FS, Enclave, or CX-9, despite having 7 cuft more space behind the 3rd row than a Pacifica, will carry 7 adults plus luggage for all passengers, without use of the roof. But the point was the Pacifica defined and started the crossover class. What happened after that is just copy and modify. (Kind of the same way Chrysler invented the minivan class - even if Ford blew their chance to beat Chrysler to the punch on it).
I spent 3 years as a "road warrior", flying around for my job and renting cars 30-40 weeks a year. I'd easily log 30k+ miles in rental cars a year, criss-crossing the midwest to see customers and do crop tours. I'd purposely rent cars that I had an interest in buying. I've done Pacifica vs. FS comparison. The Explorer vs. Grand Cherokee vs. Envoy. The reality is, Ford's interiors are the worst among US automakers. Their plastics are rock hard and poor fitting. And their dash layouts and design are just totally UNINSPIRED. I'm guessing their engineers just don't enjoy spending anytime in a car.
I will say I agree with you on Chrysler's quality issues. I too owned two, and don't see myself buying another one anytime soon, even if for the most part, they drive the best of the American autos in their respective classes. Chrysler does have some of the best design work (interior and exterior) among the US automakers.
Nope.
16/22 for AWD models.
16/24 for FWD models.
You have to compare apples to apples, and that means using the revised EPA standard for 2008. See Fueleconomy.gov for details.
I believe Hyundai will start actually marketing the VC in 2008 (they really dropped the ball in 2007, imo), so maybe people will pay attention.
Useless arguments.
You might want to reread my post. I didn't say that the TX was best in class. Just that the TX/FS was the first CUV that could hold 3 rows of adults and a good amount of luggage behind the 3rd row.
The reality is, Ford's interiors are the worst among US automakers.
Correction, YOUR reality....