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Comments
I went In GM website I got just about $35,200 and Ford SEL with same options
$34, 200, so it just $1000 difference. (also third row seat it optional in Ford - $115).
$34,200?!?! That is way off.
Here is the pricing I get for a TX that is equiped similiar to the one you mentioned in your original post:
SEL AWD Base: $28705
DVD System $995
Reverse Sensing System $295
Convienence Package (for the 6cd changer) $595
Destination Charge $750
Total MSRP $31,340
The third row seat is standard by the way.
One more,thing, you can't compare (in price wise) FORD VS GMC, it's more comparable Ford vs Saturn(Chevy),or Mercury vs GMC, or Lincoln vs Cadillac.
Assuming I agree with your statement (which I don't), the Saturn lambda is still priced higher than the TX. Also, when I was shopping it seemed as if the Saturn was priced higher than the GMC equivalent, due to the fact that Saturn sells their vehicles at MSRP (no haggle).
So maybe we should be comparing Ford vs GMC and Mercury vs Saturn, eh?
You really should go to Ford website and built one. Then click on summary:
I have:
SEL Inter. p.$ 295, SEL Conven. p $595, 3rd row 50/50 split $115, hands free communication $395 (GM has On-star), reverse sensing $295, Satt. radio $195, DVD $995, Aux climate control $650 and heating seats $240, so total base price 28,705, destination $750, options $4,670 - $34,125. Same equipment from GMC SLE AWD $35,550 and Saturn XE AWD $33,850. So you have to use automaker website, but not a Edmunds or Motor Trend.
"due to the fact that Saturn sells their vehicles at MSRP (no haggle)."
How do you know? From other forums i have seen a lot people got good deal for Saturn Outlook, that why sales numbers of Outlook consider high.
I could not agree more. Not everybody wants to drive the largest/heaviest car they can get their hands on. I test drove a FS and Outlook back-to-back and my opinion was the FS was great-big-heaping-gobs easier to maneuver around town and park. It was no contest. The FS reminded me of my sedan and the Outlook reminded me of my in-laws big truck.
If it were up to me, we would have gotten a FS because it was less expensive for the same (or better) equipment, is easier to drive, got better mpg and met our needs 75% of the time. The Outlook was roomier and met our needs 95% of the time.
Then again my wife says I'm stuck in the 1980s.
Boy my comment generated a lot of responses! Seems that if you're careful with the options list you can keep these priced well below that level. Some here even paid under $30k.
Let's see, my first new car was $10.8k. Next I spent $19k. On the latest one I spent $25k. I think I'd be OK with up to $30k, but I'm just not psychologically prepared for a price in the 40s.
I guess I feel like you get diminishing returns. You can get a very competent vehicles that covers all the basics (even some luxuries) for $30 grand.
I believe that automakers have done a wonderful job marketing to us, convincing us that we "need" certain things in our cars, often times things we don't even have in our homes.
If you want play along in the Car vs. House games.
Q1: lighting. Cars offers HIDs outside, LEDs inside. Yet most homes are still using ancient incandescent bulbs. In your case, which is more current? Are you using more energy efficient bulbs at home, or in your vehicle?
Q2: keyless entry. We're used to hitting a button to unlock a car door, but at home most of us use keys. Do you have keyless entry for your home? Garage door openers do not count, that would compare to power liftgates, which vehicles have as well.
Q3: flat panel LCDs. Where did you get an LCD first, in your car, or on a TV in your home?
Q4: power vs. generator. Do you have 200+ horsepower in your vehicle? OK, great, do your home have its own power generator? At all? In a power outage most of us would be better off...in our cars! Using an inverter I suppose our cars could become generators for our houses.
Feel free to add your own questions.
In my case, my four wheel fleet beats my house 3 to 1. :sick:
Time to upgrade the house, not the cars...
PushButton Start - the answer to a question that nobody asked in many years - I actually do remember pushbutton transmissions from the mid-fifties.
Also (unless you live out in the sticks) agree with HID lighting.
Of course, I can remember my Dad saying that anybody who needed air conditioning was a pansy (or similar word).
I am going to respectfully disagree. Ford / GMC / Chevy / Saturn are all the same class of vehicle. Mercury is not that different from Ford. GMC and Chevy are closer then Ford and Mercury are. Lincoln and Caddy are right on par, with the edge to Caddy, IMO.
vad,
Those options you list there total up to $3775. Also, Ford does not call that $395 option "hands free communication". That is the SYNC system and is quite a bit different than OnStar. Most notably is the lack of any monthly fee for SYNC.
The $115 for the 3rd row is to make it a 50/50 split seat. The SEL comes standard with a bench style 3rd row. Probably still necessary to add on to compare to the Lamdas though.
As for the Saturn XE AWD, you need to add some other packages to comparably equip it compared to the TX options you provided us with. Base price, with destination fee, is $30,995.
Now you need to add the convenience pkg (Includes remote vehicle start, ultrasonic rear parking assist and heated windshield washer fluid) to get the reverse sensors (not a camera) for $520.
Then add the DVD/Navigation Advanced Audio Package (Single, in-dash CD/MP3 player with 10 speakers (including sub-woofer), rear seat audio and 115V power outlet (XE includes dual-zone auto HVAC which is standard on XR models) for $760 to get the dual zone climate control that the TX interior convenience pkg ($595) gives you.
Now add the preferred pkg (Includes a six-way power adjustable driver's seat and roof rails. Leather steering wheel with audio controls available on the XE. ) for $690 so you can have steering wheel audio controls as well as a power driver's seat. You'll need this because I just found where you got $4,670 worth of options on the TX. When you add heated seats Ford requires you to get leather seats as well as the interior power pkg (power driver seat, power passenger seat, adjustable pedals w/o memory) for $895 and $295 respectively. You can't add leather or heated seats to an Outlook XE AWD on Saturn's site, therefore this comaparison is useless. Looks like you have to opt for an Outlook XR AWD to get the options of your TX above.
Anyway, you then add the Outlook's DVD system for $1,295 bringing it to an MSRP of $34,260. That is still a bit more than the TX you priced out and we still don't have leather or heated seats on the Outlook but do on the TX.
How much is a comparably equipped XR AWD you all might ask? Well, I'll tell you now. :P
This one's a lot trickier so I'll just sum it up. I could not add dual-zone climate control to the XR AWD and still get the DVD. However, I had to add other packages to get the power seats and reverse sensing system (again, not a camera). These packages gave me rear seat audio and a power hatch which the TX you spec'd out does not have. The audio thing is not offered on the TX and the power hatch is $475.
After all is said and done, the XR AWD carries an MSRP of $38,220. After adding the power hatch to the TX you configured the MSRP for that is $34,600. That gives us a difference of $3,620. The Outlook does have some small things like power folding and dimming side mirrors, and express up and down power windows which the TX does not have. At least not on the SEL trim. I believe there is a 1 inch difference in diameter on the wheels too. However I do not believe those 3 things total up to $3,620.
FWIW a comparably equipped TX Limited has an MSRP of $35,015. It gets an upgraded audio system and 18 inch wheels like the XR AWD and some appearance improvements (IMO) over the same SEL you priced out. But I think that's about it.
Q1: lighting. Cars offers HIDs outside, LEDs inside. Yet most homes are still using ancient incandescent bulbs. In your case, which is more current? Are you using more energy efficient bulbs at home, or in your vehicle?
Q2: keyless entry. We're used to hitting a button to unlock a car door, but at home most of us use keys. Do you have keyless entry for your home? Garage door openers do not count, that would compare to power liftgates, which vehicles have as well.
Q3: flat panel LCDs. Where did you get an LCD first, in your car, or on a TV in your home?
Q4: power vs. generator. Do you have 200+ horsepower in your vehicle? OK, great, do your home have its own power generator? At all? In a power outage most of us would be better off...in our cars! Using an inverter I suppose our cars could become generators for our houses.
A1: Definitely the cars.
A2: All keys. In fact one of them is the original key for the front door and it is 80 years old now. It's the only one we have because no one can copy it due to all the wear and tear on the teeth and in the lock itself. Fortunately our preferred entryway is the back door because the garage is back there.
A3: First LCD was in the home. I had 2 or 3 before getting one in our vehicle IIRC.
A4: Yes on the HP, no on the home generator. Do flashlights count? :P
How about this for Q5:
Your vehicle most likely has air conditioning. Does your house?
We have hot water heat so we do now use window AC units but it is not unusual for older houses to not have any AC at all.
I've seen bigger houses with two zones, though my house only has one single zone. My auto has dual-zone, i.e. seperate controls for the back.
Shoot, many vehicles have 3 zones nowadays!
Car beats house again.
Any others? What amenities can you think of that your vehicle has and your home does not? I bet this list grows long...
How about leather seats?
Is your office chair leather? Is is heated? Power adjustable? With 3 memory settings?
I have seen recliners that are power adjustable, but we don't own one.
Car wins again.
Moonroof vs. Skylights. We have one moonroof, no sky lights.
Sound System: car has 6CD changer, home has single CD player.
Power Windows: that would be nice to have at home. Maybe for the kitchen windows.
Power Door Locks: imagine hitting one button and every door in the house is locked up. Sleep tight. :shades:
Is your car more high tech than your home?
Just thought I'd make your life easier than calculating by hand...that is so 80's!
Too bad they don't make one for adults!
Automobiles are still beating homes by a long shot!
The mfr sites, along with many others in addition to the one you specified, calculate it for you too. However I felt I had to spell it out for the OP to make it very clear that there really is a big difference in price between the two no matter how you option them out.
Did you really think I had to calculate those by hand? Does anyone do that anymore? :confuse:
Shoot, my AM/FM radio next to my desk is so old it doesn't even have push buttons, much less a remote.
We may have to make this a whole separate discussion....
I can buy a Tahoe or Yukon for less than $30K unless multiple dealers are putting false advertising in print every week. Those are decently equipped even in the most basic trip, but missing a lot of the stuff that runs them up above $40K...power seats, leather, electronics...right now you may get more for your money on the Tahoe/Yukon since the discounts are deeper. Of course, over 5 years higher gas cost in the way of lesser MPH will eat of some of the savings.
People here go in to withdrawal if there's no mention of Taurus X vs. Lambda for more than 3 posts in a row.
You really should go to Ford website and built one. Then click on summary:
I have:
SEL Inter. p.$ 295, SEL Conven. p $595, 3rd row 50/50 split $115, hands free communication $395 (GM has On-star), reverse sensing $295, Satt. radio $195, DVD $995, Aux climate control $650 and heating seats $240, so total base price 28,705, destination $750, options $4,670 - $34,125. Same equipment from GMC SLE AWD $35,550 and Saturn XE AWD $33,850. So you have to use automaker website, but not a Edmunds or Motor Trend.
The TX options that you listed add up to $3775, not $4670! I also wanted to point out that your mythical $32,000 MSRP Acadia that you saw at the dealer is now $35,500 according to your numbers. *scratches his head*
I think at this point I'll just let my fellow readers decide which one is the better value.
The fellow reader should go and test drive the vehicles, and then look sales numbers for 2007 Acadia-almost 73,000 and Ford TX with Freestyle for 2007 - almost 38,000. They will feel difference between those cars. Acadia is much better build and have smoother ride, very responsive to the steering wheel, Ford heavy on gas pedal, sluggish, noisy, ride nothing special, it's like any other Ford SUV.
So It's something not right with TX, if Acadia out sale almost double.
I think a lot people knows, that GM SUV and trucks built better and have comfort, and quality.
"The TX options that you listed add up to $3775, not $4670!"
The number $4670 I got from summary on Ford website, so they have not showed some options in the list. I have no an idea. It's always have been dark side of the moon all these options. I've never buy car with a lot options. It's waist of money.
I give my number for almost entry level Acadia SEL: was sticker price almost 32,500 got- 29,697 total with tax and fees 30847, then less 500 GM rebate total 30,347. This is end price, then some cash out of packet(can't say).
Test drive them, and choose for your needs. The Taurus X drives smaller because it is. It feels faster because it is.
Obviously you didn't read my post which told you why. When you added the heated seats option the system required you to get leather and the interior power package. A message pops up explaining this to you and you have to confirm with yes or no that you want to add those two options. With them you get $4,670 in options. Therefore the site did not hide options from you but rather you were not paying attention. We all do it, but don't blame the site.
"The Taurus X drives smaller because it is. It feels faster because it is....."
1. I'm not going explain what sales numbers show, I give ex:
Sony, Panasonic, Samsung. Or Westinghouse, Insignia, Magnavox.
2. McDonalds. What? you're compare burger to the car. Oh, well what can I say?
3.Mazda CX-9 feels faster than Acadia, but Motor Trend got same numbers for MT figure eight. So what's your point?
Plus, you have to look at prices paid, not MSRP. At MSRP Saturn has the advantage because whatever discount even the best negotiator could get is already built-in. With all the others you will simply pay less that the sticker.
Edmunds' TCO tool is a start, but you really ought to look at what you would pay in your region, minues the projected resale after the period of time you expect to keep it. Plus gas, insurance, etc.
After you calculate all that, toss it out the window.
Buy the one you like best, as long as it's affordable to you. The bottom line is you should be happy with the purchase, whether it costs you $25 grand or $40 grand. Does it really matter what other people in this thread think? The only one that needs to be happy is the owner.
For people that buy CUVs, figure 8s are pointless: straight line acceleration is all that counts when I want to beat someone at a red light! That way I feel like a real man after I beat grandma in her Buick Century! So in that sense, the 2008 CX-9 is faster.
Be careful when trying to correlate "best selling" with "best CUV on the market". Many other factors play a role, such as number of dealerships, price, etc. For example, the Outlook is virtually identical to the Acadia, yet hasn't sold nearly as well, even though it is lower priced. If I followed your reasoning, I would have to assume that the Outlook is not as good as the Acadia, when we all know that it's the same.
(The Acadia is selling well because there are many GMC dealers, and there is a sales shift happening, i.e. it is likely that previous GM and SUV owners owners are buying the Acadia, which would explain lower sales for these cars--Envoy sales down 35%, Trailblazer down 23%, Equinox down 22%, Yukon and Tahoe down 10%, and minivan sales over 75%).
Tahoe/Yukon are decently equipped in the base models...not really what I would call stripped. Looked up the current (assuming these are base models, not the Fleet Stripped Options which I see with option 1SA) with the current $2000 rebate is a little over $31K including everything but tax and tags... Yukon... Might have been more rebates during December when I was seeing these ads.
Published makes no difference whatsoever, the fine print is also published. So what?
It faster 0.1 for 1/4 mile. Here numbers:quarter mile MDX -16.0 sec @ 87.8 mph Acadia -16.4 sec @ 83.6 mph, CX-9 -16.3 sec @ 85.3 mph , TX -16.4 sec 86 mph.
Torque: MDX- 275 @ 5000 RPM, Acadia- 251 @ 3200 RPM, CX-9 270 @ 4250 RPM, TX- 249 @ 4500 RPM
And Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) MDX -4539.3 Acadia - 4936.2 CX-9 -4312.2 TX- 4202.0.
So Acadia is heaviest car among above vehiles, so very impresive performance.
I think Acadia has a best ratio between weight and engine/transmission performance.
Source http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0706_acura_mdx_gmc_acadia_mazda_cx_- 9/specs.html
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/?14@@.ef0921d/7214
"I give my number for almost entry level Acadia SEL: was sticker price almost 32,500 got- 29,697 total"
Was there any trade-in involved?
I agree with the other posters on the sales issus. Higher volume of Acadias being bought by those who would have bought other GM SUVs really isn't much help to GM anyway. I wonder how many new, non-GM owners are buying Acadias?
Also, marketing and popularity significantly affect sales. I believe that it's more practical and cost effective for folks buying big CUVs like the lambdas to buy minivans (eg...Sedona or Odyssey) because they have more interior space for the same exterior size, but CUVs right now are more popular, so that's one reason they're selling a lot...not necessarily because they're better.
There's not point in arguing your points about the driving dynamics of the Acadia being better than the TX/FS, since that's your opinion and each person can test drive them for themselves and see.
A lot of folks tend to stick with one manufacturer, so another possible reason for low TX sales is because the Escape and Explorer are so good that people are keeping them and not interested in the TX, while with GM, maybe people are unsatisfied with the GM SUVs and are trading them in for lambdas. Just a possibility.
I think you'll find the TX to be right in-between a car height and SUV height.
You are quoting 2007 CX-9 numbers. Remember that the 2008 models got a bigger engine, so here are the numbers for FWD and AWD:
Car and Driver: FWD 2008 CX-9: 1/4 mile in 15.7 sec at 91 mph; 0-60 mph time is 7.3 sec
Motor Trend: AWD 2008 CX-9: 1/4 mile in 16.0 sec at 97.8 mph; 0-60 in 7.8 sec.
For the Acadia AWD, C&D and MotorTrend both got 16.4 secs in the 1/4 mile and 0-60 times of 8.1 sec.
So no only is the 2008 CX-9 just as fast as a MDX, it's 0.4 sec faster than the Acadia (both in AWD). And 0.4 seconds is about 16 yards behind the CX-9, which is a substantial difference when you live your life 10 seconds at a time!!!
Of course, when I go to build one of these, since I want dual front power seats, the packages required to get them jump MSRP to over $40K so if you knock $5-6K off you get back down to $33-35K range...probably more than I want to spend...but I could get a base Tahoe or Yukon for $30K or less...Outlook or Acadia as well in that range...lower base MSRP than the Yukon, but less incentive and probably a little less discount.
My warnings about ad cars still applies, though. Just because they put $29,999 in print doesn't mean it'll actually cost that.
We bought a 626 ES V6 in 1995, the ad was in the $17k range. Add freight, processing fee, add back a Military rebate we were not eligible for, plus 5% taxes. It ended up being $21k out the door.
Just read all the fine print.
If you want real performance from car size of SUV, you should buy jeep grand Cherokee SRT8 or Chevy SS.
It's a useless argue. You're guys drive me crazy, some of you don't even have this cars. Believe me I have spent over year deciding what CUV right for me and my family, before bought Acadia.
So, I'm just trying to help other people to make a decision what CUV right for them.
I shared my personal experience with this vehicle and others. So if you have Q. please ask.
dd24fan, "Chevy Tahoe: Prices Paid & Buying Experiences" #440, 31 Dec 2007 4:36 pm
My price book says invoice for a 2WD LS starts around $32k, so I suppose rebates can bring it down a bit. I'm surprised the rebates are that big on a relatively new model, though.
Also, that's 2WD. Sort of defeats the purpose of an SUV, unless he truly needs it for towing, I guess.
So, I'm just trying to help other people to make a decision what CUV right for them.
Now I've heard it all vad! I'm of the opinion that you've been trying to push everyone into an Acadia because you thought it was the best. EVERYONE else on this thread has shown you that the Acadia, and the other Lambdas, are not necessarily for everyone based on things like performance and price. I think they are in the top 3 for appearance and I feel that that is why they sell so well but aside from that I see nothing else special about them.
Now I'm not saying the Acadia wasn't the best choice for you because you, and only you can decide that. However I do feel you need to understand that there are several great alternatives to the Acadia out there and people coming here for advice need to know about them too. These people need help deciding what to buy and they don't need to be told what to buy.
Some people have opinion that TX is best it's included you.. So i don't tell it them.
"and the other Lambdas, are not necessarily for everyone based on things like performance and price. I think they are in the top 3 for appearance and I feel that that is why they sell so well but aside from that I see nothing else special about them"
The price I can agree, but performance very good (0.4 sec difference). The fact they've sold for 2007 almost double compare ford TX or CX-9. So appearence very good too.
Well, I bought the first year Trooper (2000) available with 2wd. I don't want/need 4wd 99.9% of the time. 4wd usually cuts gas mileage, increases maintenance costs and increases insurance. If you go off-road or live in snow country, sure...if not, why. 2wd would tow a load about as well as 4wd unless you are off-road or on a slick boat ramp. Most SUVs are used as wagons, not off-road anyway.
Not sure I understand that statement. The seat height of the TX/FS is one of the things I like best about it in that you don't have to climb or nor fall into the seat, and most reviewers say the same thing.
I agree that probably one of the reasons that Acadias sell more is because people buy their CUVs based on appearance; however, some folks base their purchase on more objective factors and leave appearance towards the bottom of the list.
Personally people can buy what they want. For some folks who need to carry lots of people, need to tow a lot and need AWD, then the lamdas can be a good choice, especially if they're trading in some giant SUV.
On the other hand, some folks who are currently driving cars find that they need more space for extra passengers and cargo may look to the TX/FS as the better choice because it's more car-like than a lambda.
I fall into the latter category since I have no need for AWD, I never tow anything, I've never had the need to carry 8 passengers, and really want to drive the smallest and most efficient vehicle that suits my needs, and so the FS worked out best for me in being able to drive/feel more like a car but have the capability of carrying 7 adults plus stuff.
Different situations lead to different choices.