I think the biggest difference-maker for us when we were looking was the answer to this question:
How many people do you want to cram into it? If it is 6 or less, I would go with the Freestyle. Best combo of comfort and price out of the bunch. If it is 7-8, I think the Lambdas are the way to go (well, because that is what we got).
Please keep in mind that the Vera Cruz was not available when we were looking. It seems like a solid competitor in this segment. This is just my opinion and your mileage may vary.
The Acadia handled like a minivan to me. It's just not very manueverable in tight situations. It reminded me too much of a Tahoe with independent rear suspension. The CX-9 was nice. I really liked it, but the sleek lines make 3rd row headroom poor and entry and exit hard. The Veracruz lacks storage, but has great seating in all three rows. It's also very manueverable with a shorter turning radius than all of the rest.
The Final #s for the 08 3.7L CX-9 engine came from a source at Mazda.
My friend at Ford said that she felt the Lincoln motor for the 08 MKX would have the 3.7L with Direct Injection. She said Ford builds the Duratec motors and then ships them to Japan for Mazda to tinker with. The engines aren't assembled in Japan, but here by Ford.
To me, it doesn't make sense for Lincoln to use this 3.7L without Direct Injection, as they have made this engine Exclusive to Lincoln to separate the MKX from the Edge and market the new MKS sedan to high end consumers.
Personally I don't see the point of Mazda changing engines after 1 model year and NOT putting the 3.7L engine in with Direct Injection to push 300hp and better fuel mileage.
Does anyone know which would hold it's value best--we will be leasing.
Well, if you are leasing the dealer/manufacturer sets the residual value and takes the gamble. You could compare the different lease deals you are offered and see which THEY think will hold the value the best. If at lease end you think it is worth more than that, buy it, if not, you can just turn it back in. (Assuming you don't go over miles or have cost for abnormal wear and tear)
Personally I don't see the point of Mazda changing engines after 1 model year and NOT putting the 3.7L engine in with Direct Injection to push 300hp and better fuel mileage.
Expect to see a new Mazda model using Direct Injection and the 3.7 engine block around the 2008/2009 model year. The current 2008 3.7 V6 is exclusive to Mazda to differentiate its products, expect to see it being used in the upcoming 2009 Mazda6. For your information the 2008 MKX/Edge will still use the 3.5 V6 engines (see links below). Most families don’t need a 300hp CUV. The rated output of the 2008 CX-9 is more than most of its competitors with exception of the Acura MDX. Since the fuel economy numbers for the new 3.7 has not yet been announced we cannot assume that it will be worse than the 3.5.
That's interesting. There was hardly any noticeable noise when I took my drive in the Veracruz. I believe it benchmarked the RX, and it wouldn't be a stretch to say it matched the Lexus and slightly better.
I did notice plenty of noise going over bad roads. Hard for me to believe many think this is a quiet riding vehicle.
Did you notice which tires were on the Veracruz? Sometimes noise like you saw could be the tires on that particular stretch of 'bad' road. They might be great and quiet everywhere else, but not so good on just that particular type of 'bad' road. Unless that 'bad' road is on your daily route, you might seldom get the pleasure of experiencing that again. Did you take the other vehicles you are considering over the same 'bad' road to see how they did?
Were you asking me or the original poster? I ask because you replied to my post but quoted from the original poster.
At any rate, I tested Veracruz with both tire options. I had the CUV for a few days so I went all over the place, including "bad" roads, and yes this is one of the quietest CUV/SUV.
Besides the not great noise isolation from the bad road, I don't care for the exit/entry to third row and the lack of storage. Acceleration was decent.
Warranty is great,comfortable seats, nice leather. There are things to like about it. I just don't like it enough to buy one.
The condition of the roads were very similar and some of the route I took was the same and I liked the drive of the Acadia more. What I noticed about the Acadia 2nd & 3rd row is that my knees were up high. Also the 2nd row seats seem narrower than the front seats. Overall though, the seats were comfortable despite the angle. Might not be comfortable for long drives. Anyone experience sitting like that for long trips? What's it like when most of your legs are not on the seat?
Also the 2nd row seats seem narrower than the front seats. Overall though, the seats were comfortable despite the angle
I don't know. I've seen some minivans with seat bottoms that angle up that didn't seem so go on a long haul. Reminds me of sitting in the back of some old 2dr coupe! You'd think that a vehicle 70" tall could provide nearly horizontal seat bottoms. That might also create a higher step to get into the 2nd row.
I spent more than two months comparing, test driving and pricing the leading CUV's. When I got to the Santa Fe I noticed the Veracruz sitting next to it. When I tested both I knew I wanted the larger and roomier Veracruz. To demonstrate the third row we had two guys my size - 6' 2" or taller and over 250 pounds climb into the back. They did so with no problems and had knee room to spare.
The real kicker for me was comparing comparably equipped vehicles and nothing came close to being under $40K much less the $36,000 I paid for mine out the door!
I also own a boat - weighs 1700lbs - and was impressed with the tow capacity of the Veracruz. Doesn't match my Suburban, but then the gas mileage is much better.
The new GM models all look nice and seem to be of higher quality - but they price out fully loaded closer to the Lexus than the Hyundai. The RX - well forget it, it missed in Motor Trends comparison and I can see why. Not just $$, but also four inches narrower, shorter and less size overall.
I know Hyundai has been making great strides in quality and has surpassed Toyota for JD Powers numbers. I just wonder if I can get past it being a Hyundai for the time being.
To demonstrate the third row we had two guys my size - 6' 2" or taller and over 250 pounds climb into the back. They did so with no problems and had knee room to spare.
How much space was left in the 2nd row after sliding the seats all the way forward in the 2nd row? Could the same 6' 250lb guy sit in the 2nd and 1st row all in a row?
"Definately.. I have done this before(towing my boat on a test drive). The MDX is 5k lbs and the Buick/Acadia is 4500lbs capacity. Hook it up and drive the puppy. This will surely elininate any decisions stuck in pergatory.. "
I will be trying this with my 4K boat&trailer once the 08 Highlander is available to test drive and will post my results. The 08 HL is supposed to have a 5K tow rating.
I had to chuckle when I read your last sentence. "I just wonder if I can get past it being a Hyundai for the time being."
We just went through that - Having driven a Lexus RX 300 for the past 8 years, we bought our Hyundai Veracruz last week! We struggled with going from a Lexus to a Hyundai, but I have absolutely no regrets. The Veracruz Limited with the Ultimate package blows our RX out of the water! You really need to get past the name and just enjoy all of the luxury and quality the Veracruz offers. Good luck!
The Enclave is a VERY vice vehicle. For us, it was a close second to the Veracruz. I like the "bling" factor that the Enclave offers that the Veracruz doesn't. Let us know how you like it once you've been in it for a while.
No, I'm not a Buick planner and don't work in the auto industry. My wife and I were just sick and tired of expensive repairs on foreign cars. We wanted a BMW because of their reputation. We traded in our old Mercedes C-Class for a Lucerne in 2005 and it's been great, much bigger and gets more comments. The Enclave blows away our X-5, which isn't as roomy as it looks from the outside. We did our research, according to JD Power, Buick is one of the most reliable brands every year. http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2006133 Our dealer told us about the Enclave and we fell in love with it. Also, I'm originally from Michigan and I started to feel guilty about driving foreign. Both our Buicks (the Enclave when we get it!) are built in Michigan and are two of the most American cars you can get. A lot of people are trading in their foreign cars for the Enclave. I mean what would you rather have, a Sienna or an Enclave?
A Sienna by far. It can hold people more comfortably and more cargo, and I trust Toyota quality over Buick any day. But if you're interested in "getting more comments" then get an Enclave.
A lot of people are trading in their foreign cars for the Enclave.
I don't know. Since my wife got her Outlook I have had about a half-dozen strangers stop me in parking lots and ask me about the car. My wife has had the same experience. She was once stopped by two different sets of people when she was getting groceries. My mother-in-law, every time she sees it, says it's a nice looking truck.
The most common comment is "what is that?". This will die down once more of these are on the road. But, I think the bottom line is that GM has a real big winner with the Lambdas.
That is because the Outlook (and the rest of the Lambdas) IS a van. There is really no difference. BTW: why exactly would anyone care if one van is a little quicker than another van? It's a VAN for crying out loud! The only real reason to care at all is if a van is underpowered enough to cause safety concerns on the highway. Otherwise, it is a family/cargo hauler.
because fast matters no matter what you are driving, come on, you've been around here long enough to know its all about ultimate "handling" at the limit and hp numbers that make CUV buyers tick...
And realy ... if you wanna have fun in a CUV... all you have to say is... ZOOM~ZOOM.
Yes, I would rather have fun in a Miata too. If you are after fun, I would think there are better places to look than a 4000+ pound land-yhat that seats 7. Just my opinion.
Our comparisons showed Veracruz to be the better vehicle. Reliability and warranty were big factors. The Enclave doesn't offer a "smart key". So very convenient: the key never leaves the darkness of the bottom of my purse, yet I can drive, lock, unlock, etc., with total ease. The kids, ( 8 & 10) my 6'4" husband and I (5'2") all felt the seats in Veracruz were more comfortable in all 3 rows. We also felt the second row seat mechanisms were cheap and flimsy in the Enclave. Worried they'd break easily. We thought the faux wood trim looked cheesy in Enclave. MP3 in Veracruz. 6 CD in Veracruz vs 1 CD in Enclave. I like the body style of the Veracruz very much, but like the body of the Enclave and CX9 even better. There's more to our decision making than just the looks. But again, I like the looks of VC, just not #1 in that department.
And realy ... if you wanna have fun in a CUV... all you have to say is... ZOOM~ZOOM.
Yes, I would rather have fun in a Miata too. If you are after fun, I would think there are better places to look than a 4000+ pound land-yhat that seats 7. Just my opinion.
My $0.02: If you are after fun with the CUV/whatever, find a place to live surrounded by rugged mountains and lush green valleys, blue skies with a few clouds drifting by, with a long and winding road with no traffic (like they show in the commercials).
PS: What is that white wavy thing they are showing in the new infiniti ad's?
why exactly would anyone care if one van is a little quicker than another van?
I couldn't disagree more.
When you can fit 148.9 cubic feet of gear inside the vehicle, power and torque are critically important.
It's not that it can acclerate quickly when empty, it's that it can merge safely and make it up those steep climbs in the mountains when it's loaded up with 1200 lbs of payload.
My Miata has 116hp. It doesn't need any more than that. Payload is just 350 lbs.
Power in that sports car is not nearly as important as people think. It doesn't weight anything, and it doesn't haul anything. It also maintains speed through the corners, so power just isn't important.
We're sitting here discussing how 8 people can fit comfortably in these behemoths, well then power is a whole lot more important than it is in a Miata.
Then just imagine if these "behemoths" were designed to have as much volume but weigh much less then they do. Instead they take the easy way out and add the weight and the hp sacrificing mpg. You might just be able to get to that new 35mpg avg the government is talking about if they used some engineering talent and innovation. Heck they'd even "handle" better with less weight(just a side bonus for those CUV racers out there).
but that's not new news...at least from me anyways...
(pardon my typos above, I must've been in a hurry)
add the weight and the hp sacrificing mpg
In Toyota's case, they use extremely tall gearing and still manage great fuel efficiency. Most models that went from the 3.3l to the 3.5l actually improved slightly in fuel economy.
I'm quite happy with my 23-24 MPG so far (on a green engine no less), and doubt a Lambda would match that. I also brought some drywall home (4'x8') inside the vehicle on a rainy day, and I doubt any crossover could manage that, even a Suburban or Expedition EL isn't wide enough.
Check out the current Consumer Reports, their RX350 was both fastest and most fuel efficient of the group. It's no wonder the 2GR engine made Ward's 10 Best engines list this year.
Toyota is a company everyone seems to love to hate, but the Direct Injection 3.5l V6 is probably the best powertrain offered in any vehicle covered by this thread.
had an extra helping of the toyota koolaid did we...
It seems you missed all of my points to celebrate your undying love for toyota and its magical minivan with a side of lexus. I love to hate them as described, find them pointless and vanilla at best, also not news. As this also has been addressed ad nauseum, CR is the last place to look for automotive advice, insight, etc..
I guess the blinders have kept you from reading all of the problems they have had with their tundra's as well as the vaunted prius and other models, do a search as they had a recall percentage of 10.1% of vehicles sold, second only to ford at 11%. All's not well in toyota-land as GM & chrysler were significantly less than those numbers. Seems engineering might be a little suspect. Not to mention as the driver of the sienna you only enjoy 4 stars of crash protection vs 5 stars for the cuv crowd, at least the passengers will survive.
Their magic spell seems to be working as despite the problems the image remains shiney, go figure as the american auto industry posts better numbers and produce better products toyota manages to sugar coat the beige expanse of their line-up to become number one manufacturer.
personally, I blame the success of the koolaid on the erosion of the education system...
you might want to review the title of the thread BTW as well.
you might want to review the title of the thread BTW as well.
Well "technically" we're talking about SUVs here, and you're comparing quality of the Toyota fleet in general, which has no bearing on the SUV discussion. Come back with numbers about the Highlander/Sequoia, and then we'll have something to talk about :P
Talking about quality: this thread will soon have the redesigned Toyota Highlander and Honday Pilot to worry about, so it'll be interesting how well these CUV does in comparison, especially in quality. And although you might not like Toyota (and I don't really care for the looks of the new Highlander), the Highlander will feature 2nd row captains chairs that can turn into a bench seat, rear view camera that doesn't require NAV, and the window on the hatch opens up without having to open up the hatch.
"As this also has been addressed ad nauseum, CR is the last place to look for automotive advice, insight, etc.. "
Why is that? Is it because CR gathers actual reliability data from owners of these vehicles? Is it because their reviews value real-world characteristics rather than track/trail performances? Is it because they attempt to show long-term reliability data?
I have followed the automotive industry intently since the mid-80's. I've had subsriptions to all the popular car rags. I can find fault with all of them, including CR, but I would never put CR anywhere near the bottom of the pile.
"as for the new models coming, the highlander is as beige as ever and stay tuned for the pilot..."
If you're trying to make a statement about the blandness of automotive design, a CUV forum is really the wrong venue. NONE of the vehicles compared here really stir any passion within me as far as looks, and I don't think that's the point of these vehicles.
Honda and Toyota have sold millions of vehicles (passenger cars OR CUV/SUVs, take your pick) that would be called "classy and competent" styling-wise, but they were hardly exciting to look at. There is a fine line between "beige" and "ugly." When you have some of the best-selling cars in the world (Accord/Camry), there is hardly much incentive to make a brash, bold design statement. So... you get beige.
The people have spoken, and beige is pretty okay if you need to reliably haul people and stuff. Besides, there are a lot of shades of beige, and some of them can be really nice.
I drive a Miata daily (that's a Mazda by the way) and I'm the community leader for the Subaru Crew. You don't know me at all. :P
you might want to review the title of the thread BTW as well
problems they have had with their tundra's as well as the vaunted prius and other models
Look who's talking!
Besdies, the 2GR engine powers both the RX350 and the new Highlander, so it's very much relevant to this thread. It does not power the Prius or Tundra, making those not relevant.
CR is the last place to look for automotive advice, insight
I suppose you think we should rely on important sources such as freealfas' opinion?
you only enjoy 4 stars of crash protection vs 5 stars for the cuv crowd, at least the passengers will survive
Do you really think 4 stars means the driver is likely to DIE? You really do not understand the ratings.
Besides, with the 2GR engine replacing the 3MZ, we don't even know if those results are valid, there would certainly be at least minor differences in the results.
I challenge you to watch this video and tell me that you think the driver of a Sienna would not survive (as you said) in this higher speed collision (40 mph instead of 35mph):
do a search as they had a recall percentage of 10.1% of vehicles sold, second only to ford at 11%. All's not well in toyota-land as GM & chrysler were significantly less than those numbers. Seems engineering might be a little suspect.
Recalls are not a true measure of reliability or quality. There can never be enough testing to realize that your product is flawless. Sometime it takes years for a defect to show. A recall really means that the mfg steps up to the plate, admits they made a mistake, and are willing to pay for it. Personally, I like the fact the a mfg will fix something BEFORE it breaks, not after the vehicle leaves me stranded.
Am I a fan of Toyota? Not really. They really do not build anything that excites me. Do they build good vehicles? Yes, they do. Are they the best? Maybe, maybe not. One thing that may add to their perceived reliability is the fact that they have a average age buyer that is near 50 or over. I know the Camry have an average age buyer of 55. Usually, people of this age do not push their vehicles as hard as younger people that buy other brands, like Mazda, who has the youngest average age buyer in the industry of around 30-35. Is this always the case for drivers of that age? No, but it could be a factor. As there are also many factors that play into reliability. Bottom line is Toyota still makes a good vehicle, no matter how you slice it.
Basically I hated the on/off heated seats (it should have at least low/high and a temp control of some sort) and the center console rubbed against my right knee where it protrudes.
Otherwise I really liked it. I just didn't see the need to pay several thousand more than I did.
Gosh! I'm going to try hard not to pick any arguments with anybody, but all I'm hearing is biased oppinion. Bashing Toyota? They may be a little overated, but are still one of the best companies of current. Bashing CR? They have as much credibility as any other autotester. No more. No less. sounds like someone's been dipping their spoon too much!
Comments
How many people do you want to cram into it? If it is 6 or less, I would go with the Freestyle. Best combo of comfort and price out of the bunch. If it is 7-8, I think the Lambdas are the way to go (well, because that is what we got).
Please keep in mind that the Vera Cruz was not available when we were looking. It seems like a solid competitor in this segment. This is just my opinion and your mileage may vary.
My friend at Ford said that she felt the Lincoln motor for the 08 MKX would have the 3.7L with Direct Injection. She said Ford builds the Duratec motors and then ships them to Japan for Mazda to tinker with. The engines aren't assembled in Japan, but here by Ford.
To me, it doesn't make sense for Lincoln to use this 3.7L without Direct Injection, as they have made this engine Exclusive to Lincoln to separate the MKX from the Edge and market the new MKS sedan to high end consumers.
Personally I don't see the point of Mazda changing engines after 1 model year and NOT putting the 3.7L engine in with Direct Injection to push 300hp and better fuel mileage.
Well, if you are leasing the dealer/manufacturer sets the residual value and takes the gamble. You could compare the different lease deals you are offered and see which THEY think will hold the value the best. If at lease end you think it is worth more than that, buy it, if not, you can just turn it back in. (Assuming you don't go over miles or have cost for abnormal wear and tear)
Expect to see a new Mazda model using Direct Injection and the 3.7 engine block around the 2008/2009 model year. The current 2008 3.7 V6 is exclusive to Mazda to differentiate its products, expect to see it being used in the upcoming 2009 Mazda6. For your information the 2008 MKX/Edge will still use the 3.5 V6 engines (see links below). Most families don’t need a 300hp CUV. The rated output of the 2008 CX-9 is more than most of its competitors with exception of the Acura MDX. Since the fuel economy numbers for the new 3.7 has not yet been announced we cannot assume that it will be worse than the 3.5.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/2008fleetshowroom/2008-MKX.asp?PrintVer=1
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2008/ford_ldt_a0101423_3d5_u2.pdf
Veracruz owners enjoy this article from this link:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0707_hyundai_veracruz_lexus_rx350
Did you notice which tires were on the Veracruz? Sometimes noise like you saw could be the tires on that particular stretch of 'bad' road. They might be great and quiet everywhere else, but not so good on just that particular type of 'bad' road. Unless that 'bad' road is on your daily route, you might seldom get the pleasure of experiencing that again. Did you take the other vehicles you are considering over the same 'bad' road to see how they did?
At any rate, I tested Veracruz with both tire options. I had the CUV for a few days so I went all over the place, including "bad" roads, and yes this is one of the quietest CUV/SUV.
Besides the not great noise isolation from the bad road, I don't care for the exit/entry to third row and the lack of storage. Acceleration was decent.
Warranty is great,comfortable seats, nice leather. There are things to like about it. I just don't like it enough to buy one.
The condition of the roads were very similar and some of the route I took was the same and I liked the drive of the Acadia more. What I noticed about the Acadia 2nd & 3rd row is that my knees were up high. Also the 2nd row seats seem narrower than the front seats. Overall though, the seats were comfortable despite the angle. Might not be comfortable for long drives. Anyone experience sitting like that for long trips? What's it like when most of your legs are not on the seat?
I don't know. I've seen some minivans with seat bottoms that angle up that didn't seem so go on a long haul. Reminds me of sitting in the back of some old 2dr coupe! You'd think that a vehicle 70" tall could provide nearly horizontal seat bottoms. That might also create a higher step to get into the 2nd row.
The real kicker for me was comparing comparably equipped vehicles and nothing came close to being under $40K much less the $36,000 I paid for mine out the door!
I also own a boat - weighs 1700lbs - and was impressed with the tow capacity of the Veracruz. Doesn't match my Suburban, but then the gas mileage is much better.
The new GM models all look nice and seem to be of higher quality - but they price out fully loaded closer to the Lexus than the Hyundai. The RX - well forget it, it missed in Motor Trends comparison and I can see why. Not just $$, but also four inches narrower, shorter and less size overall.
I know Hyundai has been making great strides in quality and has surpassed Toyota for JD Powers numbers. I just wonder if I can get past it being a Hyundai for the time being.
How much space was left in the 2nd row after sliding the seats all the way forward in the 2nd row? Could the same 6' 250lb guy sit in the 2nd and 1st row all in a row?
I have done this before(towing my boat on a test drive).
The MDX is 5k lbs and the Buick/Acadia is 4500lbs capacity.
Hook it up and drive the puppy. This will surely elininate any decisions stuck in pergatory.. "
I will be trying this with my 4K boat&trailer once the 08 Highlander is available to test drive and will post my results. The 08 HL is supposed to have a 5K tow rating.
We just went through that - Having driven a Lexus RX 300 for the past 8 years, we bought our Hyundai Veracruz last week! We struggled with going from a Lexus to a Hyundai, but I have absolutely no regrets. The Veracruz Limited with the Ultimate package blows our RX out of the water! You really need to get past the name and just enjoy all of the luxury and quality the Veracruz offers. Good luck!
Good driving!
It won't be as sporting, but I bet it rides more comfortably.
Our dealer told us about the Enclave and we fell in love with it.
Also, I'm originally from Michigan and I started to feel guilty about driving foreign. Both our Buicks (the Enclave when we get it!) are built in Michigan and are two of the most American cars you can get. A lot of people are trading in their foreign cars for the Enclave. I mean what would you rather have, a Sienna or an Enclave?
A lot of people are trading in their foreign cars for the Enclave.
Still sounds like an ad to me
The most common comment is "what is that?". This will die down once more of these are on the road. But, I think the bottom line is that GM has a real big winner with the Lambdas.
Plus, the Sienna is quicker, much roomier, and more fuel efficient.
Enclave looks great, though.
Yes, I would rather have fun in a Miata too.
If you are after fun, I would think there are better places to look than a 4000+ pound land-yhat that seats 7. Just my opinion.
Our comparisons showed Veracruz to be the better vehicle. Reliability and warranty were big factors. The Enclave doesn't offer a "smart key". So very convenient: the key never leaves the darkness of the bottom of my purse, yet I can drive, lock, unlock, etc., with total ease. The kids, ( 8 & 10) my 6'4" husband and I (5'2") all felt the seats in Veracruz were more comfortable in all 3 rows. We also felt the second row seat mechanisms were cheap and flimsy in the Enclave. Worried they'd break easily. We thought the faux wood trim looked cheesy in Enclave. MP3 in Veracruz. 6 CD in Veracruz vs 1 CD in Enclave. I like the body style of the Veracruz very much, but like the body of the Enclave and CX9 even better. There's more to our decision making than just the looks. But again, I like the looks of VC, just not #1 in that department.
Yes, I would rather have fun in a Miata too.
If you are after fun, I would think there are better places to look than a 4000+ pound land-yhat that seats 7. Just my opinion.
My $0.02: If you are after fun with the CUV/whatever, find a place to live surrounded by rugged mountains and lush green valleys, blue skies with a few clouds drifting by, with a long and winding road with no traffic (like they show in the commercials).
PS: What is that white wavy thing they are showing in the new infiniti ad's?
I couldn't disagree more.
When you can fit 148.9 cubic feet of gear inside the vehicle, power and torque are critically important.
It's not that it can acclerate quickly when empty, it's that it can merge safely and make it up those steep climbs in the mountains when it's loaded up with 1200 lbs of payload.
My Miata has 116hp. It doesn't need any more than that. Payload is just 350 lbs.
Power in that sports car is not nearly as important as people think. It doesn't weight anything, and it doesn't haul anything. It also maintains speed through the corners, so power just isn't important.
We're sitting here discussing how 8 people can fit comfortably in these behemoths, well then power is a whole lot more important than it is in a Miata.
but that's not new news...at least from me anyways...
add the weight and the hp sacrificing mpg
In Toyota's case, they use extremely tall gearing and still manage great fuel efficiency. Most models that went from the 3.3l to the 3.5l actually improved slightly in fuel economy.
I'm quite happy with my 23-24 MPG so far (on a green engine no less), and doubt a Lambda would match that. I also brought some drywall home (4'x8') inside the vehicle on a rainy day, and I doubt any crossover could manage that, even a Suburban or Expedition EL isn't wide enough.
Check out the current Consumer Reports, their RX350 was both fastest and most fuel efficient of the group. It's no wonder the 2GR engine made Ward's 10 Best engines list this year.
Toyota is a company everyone seems to love to hate, but the Direct Injection 3.5l V6 is probably the best powertrain offered in any vehicle covered by this thread.
It seems you missed all of my points to celebrate your undying love for toyota and its magical minivan with a side of lexus. I love to hate them as described, find them pointless and vanilla at best, also not news. As this also has been addressed ad nauseum, CR is the last place to look for automotive advice, insight, etc..
I guess the blinders have kept you from reading all of the problems they have had with their tundra's as well as the vaunted prius and other models, do a search as they had a recall percentage of 10.1% of vehicles sold, second only to ford at 11%. All's not well in toyota-land as GM & chrysler were significantly less than those numbers. Seems engineering might be a little suspect. Not to mention as the driver of the sienna you only enjoy 4 stars of crash protection vs 5 stars for the cuv crowd, at least the passengers will survive.
Their magic spell seems to be working as despite the problems the image remains shiney, go figure as the american auto industry posts better numbers and produce better products toyota manages to sugar coat the beige expanse of their line-up to become number one manufacturer.
personally, I blame the success of the koolaid on the erosion of the education system...
you might want to review the title of the thread BTW as well.
Well "technically" we're talking about SUVs here, and you're comparing quality of the Toyota fleet in general, which has no bearing on the SUV discussion. Come back with numbers about the Highlander/Sequoia, and then we'll have something to talk about :P
Talking about quality: this thread will soon have the redesigned Toyota Highlander and Honday Pilot to worry about, so it'll be interesting how well these CUV does in comparison, especially in quality. And although you might not like Toyota (and I don't really care for the looks of the new Highlander), the Highlander will feature 2nd row captains chairs that can turn into a bench seat, rear view camera that doesn't require NAV, and the window on the hatch opens up without having to open up the hatch.
as for the new models coming, the highlander is as beige as ever and stay tuned for the pilot...
Why is that? Is it because CR gathers actual reliability data from owners of these vehicles? Is it because their reviews value real-world characteristics rather than track/trail performances? Is it because they attempt to show long-term reliability data?
I have followed the automotive industry intently since the mid-80's. I've had subsriptions to all the popular car rags. I can find fault with all of them, including CR, but I would never put CR anywhere near the bottom of the pile.
If you're trying to make a statement about the blandness of automotive design, a CUV forum is really the wrong venue. NONE of the vehicles compared here really stir any passion within me as far as looks, and I don't think that's the point of these vehicles.
Honda and Toyota have sold millions of vehicles (passenger cars OR CUV/SUVs, take your pick) that would be called "classy and competent" styling-wise, but they were hardly exciting to look at. There is a fine line between "beige" and "ugly." When you have some of the best-selling cars in the world (Accord/Camry), there is hardly much incentive to make a brash, bold design statement. So... you get beige.
The people have spoken, and beige is pretty okay if you need to reliably haul people and stuff. Besides, there are a lot of shades of beige, and some of them can be really nice.
I drive a Miata daily (that's a Mazda by the way) and I'm the community leader for the Subaru Crew. You don't know me at all. :P
you might want to review the title of the thread BTW as well
problems they have had with their tundra's as well as the vaunted prius and other models
Look who's talking!
Besdies, the 2GR engine powers both the RX350 and the new Highlander, so it's very much relevant to this thread. It does not power the Prius or Tundra, making those not relevant.
CR is the last place to look for automotive advice, insight
I suppose you think we should rely on important sources such as freealfas' opinion?
you only enjoy 4 stars of crash protection vs 5 stars for the cuv crowd, at least the passengers will survive
Do you really think 4 stars means the driver is likely to DIE? You really do not understand the ratings.
Besides, with the 2GR engine replacing the 3MZ, we don't even know if those results are valid, there would certainly be at least minor differences in the results.
I challenge you to watch this video and tell me that you think the driver of a Sienna would not survive (as you said) in this higher speed collision (40 mph instead of 35mph):
Recalls are not a true measure of reliability or quality. There can never be enough testing to realize that your product is flawless. Sometime it takes years for a defect to show. A recall really means that the mfg steps up to the plate, admits they made a mistake, and are willing to pay for it. Personally, I like the fact the a mfg will fix something BEFORE it breaks, not after the vehicle leaves me stranded.
Am I a fan of Toyota? Not really. They really do not build anything that excites me. Do they build good vehicles? Yes, they do. Are they the best? Maybe, maybe not. One thing that may add to their perceived reliability is the fact that they have a average age buyer that is near 50 or over. I know the Camry have an average age buyer of 55. Usually, people of this age do not push their vehicles as hard as younger people that buy other brands, like Mazda, who has the youngest average age buyer in the industry of around 30-35. Is this always the case for drivers of that age? No, but it could be a factor. As there are also many factors that play into reliability. Bottom line is Toyota still makes a good vehicle, no matter how you slice it.
Have you had a chance to drive the CX-9? If so, I am curious to hear your opinion.
Let me try to find a link to my "review"....found it:
ateixeira, "The Forums Test Drive Team" #192, 12 Apr 2007 11:12 am
Basically I hated the on/off heated seats (it should have at least low/high and a temp control of some sort) and the center console rubbed against my right knee where it protrudes.
Otherwise I really liked it. I just didn't see the need to pay several thousand more than I did.
In most cases it does but sometimes they do have to be forced to recall.
I'm going to try hard not to pick any arguments with anybody, but all I'm hearing is biased oppinion.
Bashing Toyota? They may be a little overated, but are still one of the best companies of current.
Bashing CR? They have as much credibility as any other autotester. No more. No less.
sounds like someone's been dipping their spoon too much!