Toyota Highlander

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
    A magazine reporter is hoping to interview a driver who bought his/her car since 2001 and has a favorite interior feature (factory- or dealer-installed) that makes the whole car seem more enjoyable and well-built. (Examples: outstanding seat comfort, dynamic stereo, convenient storage pockets, high-quality leather, functional cupholders, etc.) Please send your brief comments, vehicle model name and daytime contact info to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than 12/17/03.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
    Review your vehicle

  • jrt629jrt629 Member Posts: 8
    Does anyone have a copy of the 2002 Toyota Highlander brochure they would be willing to send me? I have the 2003 Toyota Highlander brochure I would be willing to swap.
  • rcaselrcasel Member Posts: 8
    I went to wipe off some dirt from my 2 week old '04 white Limited and noticed that the body paint on the narrow bottom panel (sort of where the running boards would be) on both sides is very rough and visibly "streaky". Although coverage looks ok I was wondering if this is normal? Anyone else notice it?

    Thanks.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    That "orange peel" effect is not only normal, its a good thing. That is an anti-chip coating that Toyota puts in vulnerable areas. Its essentially an undercoating material that is applied before the paint to reduce the chance of paint chips on the rocker panels.
  • wdr2wdr2 Member Posts: 12
    During the rainy season, all of my Highlander's windows fog up when the car is parked in the sun. This happens on rainy and clear days. When I look around at other cars, I don't see this. I've been very careful not to leave wet items in the car, since I know that can cause condensation. And I leave the vents set to "open" when the car is not running. Anybody else have this problem? Any ideas what might be causing it? Thanks
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Do you have your AC in the "fresh" or "recirculate" position? If in recirculate, switch to fresh. It will clear them much faster when you do start it and may help prevent it while it is sitting.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    wwest

    Throughout edmunds, lots of info.
  • dtcoxdtcox Member Posts: 3
    I am looking for the vent location for the rear heater. I looked in the manual and it shows the vent located in the headrest of the 3rd row of seats. Seemed like a funny place. I looked and didn't see any vent that I recognized. My next step will be to set back there and turn it on and see where the heat comes out. Given it is my wife's car and I won't be in it for awhile I thought I would post a message and see what the answer is. I did a search but didn't turn it up.
  • mckeownmckeown Member Posts: 165
    The air is recirculated in the Rear. The Only control is the blower speed. The blower is just behind the right (passenger) rear wheel well. It draws air in from under the rear hatch panel, then the only outlet duct is on the passenger 3rd seat floor area by the rear wheel well.
    The dashboard switch only 'enables' the rear fan control. Dashboard OFF, no fan, Dashboard ON, fan speed is controlled by the rear switch. Temperature is not adjustable. Only fan speed
    Hope this helps...........
  • plockwoo1plockwoo1 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2003 Highlander and I don't think it performed well in the snow. In PA we had about 2 inches and I was slipping and sliding. Tried to stop and the car started making this awful noise. I took it to the dealer and they said it was normal and it was the car sending the power to the wheels that weren't slipping. It was a weak answer and I did not feel safe after that so I went home and took out my Nissan Xterra instead, which is great in the snow.

    Has anyone else experienced what I heard on Saturday?
  • phrosutphrosut Member Posts: 122
    The sound you heard was the anti-lock brake system I am sure. We've heard it a few times (mostly on purpose, testing the system) and it is the an awful grating noise as the system pulses the brakes on and off very quickly. Haven't had any snow here in our part of Northern California yet so we are still waiting to see how the car handles in the slick stuff. We have the Bridgestone tires, which from what I've read here are much better than the Goodyears in snow, but not as good as Michelins. Which do you have?
  • fvpfvp Member Posts: 147
    I live in Western PA and also have an 03 HL 4WD V-6. We have had two good snows in the last couple weeks and overall, the HL did not fare well with the Bridgestone tires. One look at the tread design will tell you that this is no snow tire. I didn't get stuck, but slid around quite a bit in even an inch of snow.
    I had a Jeep with Michelin M&S tires and found them to be very capable in all situations. I am planning on replacing the Bridgestones with Michelins this weekend.
    I agree with phrosut - that noise under breaking is the anti-lock system engaging. With the Bridgestone tires, you get treated to that racket almost every time you touch the brakes when there is snow on the road.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    on slippery roadbed conditions as to how much or how hard ABS activates. Even light braking will easily overcome the roadbed/snow/ice to tire "contact patch" traction coefficient.
  • aliminalimin Member Posts: 80
    Regarding HLs in snow with various tires: recently, we’ve had about 4 – 5” here in southern Minnesota along the Mississippi River. Our 2002, v6, vsc, awd had OEM Duelers that were replaced 2 months ago (at 37K) with Michelin Cross Terrains. What a difference! I didn’t notice any difference with the CTs on dry pavement, but in snow and slush and (somewhat) ice, the traction provided by the CTs was absolutely awesome. I know others have said it, but I can confirm from experience that it is worth the extra $ for good tires especially in nasty weather conditions.
    Happy Holidays to all HL owners!

    Alimin
  • cwbarrettcwbarrett Member Posts: 40
    Picked an 04 in Connecticut that came with 16" Toyos two weeks ago. Two storms since. Took it on some back roads for fun. No problems.
  • bdymentbdyment Member Posts: 573
    I just happened to be listening to the radio with the engine off and the bass seemed fairly flat. Started the vehicle and the bass is very active.

    Is there a subwoofer in the JBL system that only kicks in with the alternator running?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Can vary between just ~11 volts with the engine not running, up to 16 or more volts with.

    An open loop mosfet DC-to-DC up converter output might therefore vary between say, 110 volts, up to 160 volts. You would definitely hear that.
  • kbalchkbalch Member Posts: 19
    We live in Eastern Pa and have an 03 V6 AWD with Bridgestone Duelers. It is not the car, it is the tires. The Bridgestones are not great in the snow. I disagree with wwest, the better tires will make a difference in vehicle braking. That being said, your best bet is to slow down. The Highlander is still a pretty heavy vehicle, and you will require longer stopping distances in slippery conditions. I have noticed more and more SUV drivers driving way to fast for conditions. I have had great experiences with Michelin tires in the past and would highly recommend them if you decide you want a better tire. The Michelin LTX A/T's we had on our old Explorer were excellent. My father in law has the CrossTerrains on his RX300 and he likes them as well. I have never had a set of Bridgestone tires that were worth a damn on any car I have owned.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "Tires will make little difference on slippery roadbed conditions as to how much or how hard ABS activates..."

    On slippery roadbeds the brakes will always have enough force to bring the tires' rotational rate quickly close to zero and activate the ABS regardless of tire snow and ice handling capability.
  • rugby65rugby65 Member Posts: 81
    What you should know about...Anti-lock Braking Systems

    ABS ... What is it?

    ABS is an abbreviation for Anti-lock Braking System. It was designed to help the driver maintain some steering ability and avoid skidding while braking.

    ABS was introduced in the mid -1980s and has become "standard" equipment on the majority of vehicles sold in Canada. ABS in cars and most Multi-purpose Vehicles (MPV’s) works on all four wheels. This promotes directional stability and allows steering while maximizing braking.

    The ABS in most pick-up trucks works only on the rear wheels, which promotes directional stability only. However, there are some available with ABS on all four wheels.

    Anti-lock Braking systems were developed to reduce skidding and maintain steering control when brakes are used in an emergency situation.

    However, cars with anti-lock brakes are up to 65% more likely to be in fatal crashes than cars without them, says a new US study. It appears that the problem isn't with the technology, it's poor driving habits and lack of driver awareness on how the brakes operate. Driver who rely on technology instead of better driving habits to improve safety are driving down a dangerous road.

    Since much of the problem stems from lack of awareness of how to use the brakes, education is needed. Here are Manitoba Safety Council tips on operating ABS-equipped cars:

     In an emergency situation, apply your brakes hard and stay on them. The more pedal chatter the better.
     Don't pump your brakes. Pumping is for standard brakes. It completely robs ABS brakes of their effectiveness.
     Remember that ABS brakes do not help you stop quicker under most conditions. They do help you maintain steering control during braking so you can veer around obstacles.
     The general rule of thumb is that if you have to avoid an obstacle, veer to the right. This way, you avoid oncoming traffic.
     Don't become an over-confident driver because you have ABS. Drive prudently as you always should.

    Anti-lock brakes are designed to keep cars from going into a skid when the brakes are applied in an emergency. Designed to allow the driver steering control, ABS brakes work by automatically actuating the brakes on and off during emergency stops. They are effective in helping drivers avoid accidents. In certain situations, ABS brakes can help to shorten stopping distances.
  • hlfanhlfan Member Posts: 46
    Rodut : You have a valid point, but it is overly negative. It is easy to design a system that will always fail in a known position (e.g. normally closed relay). Or in this case, no intervention applied. It is also easy to detect if a system is malfunctioning at run time (e.g. Arian 5). Hopefully the HL will not self destruct ;-) I am sure VSC and TRAC has been tested rigorously, including simulated aging. If you trust the flu vaccine and MMR for your kids, you should trust VSC.

    Rugby65 : Thanks for an informative article. I'm sure locking the brakes not only decreases you steering ability, but also your stopping ability. So, I'm sure even an over-confident driver will still benefit from ABS i.t.o. stopping distance. Also as as ex-SAcan I have to wonder about that nickname !
  • landdriverlanddriver Member Posts: 607
    bdyment : My Highlander is the same and for the reason wwest stated -- with the alternator running the electrical system has more voltage, which translates to more power capability of the sound system thus manifesting itself as improved bass response as lower frequencies need more power to be heard by the human ear while the higher frequencies need very little power to do so -- I suspect one would notice this phenomenon to varying degrees on any car (unless if you have the "optional" dealer-installed super 16" Bazooka tube-style subwoofer in the location where the third row seat would otherwise be...).
  • bdymentbdyment Member Posts: 573
    Thanks to wwest and landdriver. You have answered my question regarding enhanced bass with the engine running.

    This is the first vehicle that I have owned-over 30-that I have noticed this effect. Excellent factory sound system. Merry Christmas to all.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    I'm not sure what rodut's agenda is but he clearly has no understanding of the development and reliability testing done on new technology before it goes into mass production. Readers should take everything he has said with a grain of salt.

    Rugby65, otoh, has hit the nail on the head. The "problem" with ABS is not the technology but driver education. The natural reaction of most people when ABS kicks in with pump noise and a buzzing pedal is to release the brakes which is absolutely the worst thing to do. Let the ABS do its thing and you will be better off.

    If you want to learn more about stability control, go to this site:
    http://www.esceducation.org/about_esc/index.shtml
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Look, ABS helps to provide and maintain directional control, but often to the detriment of stopping distance.

    Got that???

    ABS operates to the detriment of quicker/shorter stopping!

    Now, I'm not saying that ABS isn't an extremely desireable option in certain situations. But now it has become clear via testing that in many situations, hard, even surface dry roadbeds when directional control is not an issue, and certain extremely slippery surfaces, that ABS IS a detriment.

    In addition, the idiot design engineers have decided that if one side of the vehicle is on a slippery surface and the other with reasonably high traction then the high traction side should NOT be allowed to use severe braking for fear that it would lead to loss of control.

    So unlike the majority of us who long ago learned to instinctively handle that situation correctly by simultaneously steering (into the skid) and HARD braking, newly minted drivers never encounter the circumstance ("learning experience") and on their first hazardous encounter simply slide into the obstruction with virtually no braking HP.

    But there is hope.

    The Trac control on my 92 LS would virtually instantly apply the rear brakes and begin dethrottling the engine upon detecting rear wheel slippage. Oftentimes leaving me "dead in the water" in a line of on-coming traffic until the throttle would be again released to my control.

    One of the first things I noticed upon purchasing a 00 GS300 was that the Trac system had been modified. It would still apply the brakes virtually instantly, but delayed dethrottling for a few hundred milli-seconds to give me time to react and get off the gas long enough to recover traction.

    So, what's the answer??

    1. Driver training simulators, with much the same capability as flight training simulators. Newby drivers can then learn more than just how to drive a vehicle, they can learn how to properly react to those maybe once in a lifetime circumstances where knowing the proper thing to do virtually instantly can be life-saving.

    2. Link the VSC system to the ABS such that ABS DOES NOT activate unless loss of control is "threatened", the vehicle is not following the desired direction of travel.

    3. Modify the VSC system such that it provides vibratory steering wheel feedback to the driver in much the same manner as a "stick shaker" in a commercial aircraft.

    Now back to the right tires with no traction and the left with.

    Our driver has ecountered this situation during the simulator training. Upon encountering the disparate traction situation the VSC/ABS still initially prevents hard braking on the high traction side, and simultaneously provides a "cue" to the driver via vibratory torquing of the steering wheel toward the low traction side. Should the driver never react properly the system simply operates just as it would today, elongating the stopping distance in favor of maintaining directional control.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Yeah, maybe like what was done on that first "fly by wire" airbus that went down years ago in France, killing all aboard. The engineers had decided that the pilot would not be allowed to command extreme control surface deflection that would over-stress the airframe.

    So what happened??

    If the system had followed the pilot's "pull up" commands fully all those folks would still be alive today and the airframe would either be a in museum somewhere or scrapped for parts.

    Whether we like it or not we're the FINAL "flight test engineers" for many of these new systems.

    ABS has now become the perfect example of that.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    My first experience with ABS on snow and ice conditions was not a pleasant one (1998). I applied the brakes as required. The vehicle had a longer stopping distance than our non-ABS equipped car. Fortunately no accident occurred. Since then it has been my believe that the benefits of ABS braking systems are overrated. Prudent driving habits seem much more important. Trying to explain this was and continues to be a losing battle. I guess people are wanting more HP in order to drive faster and believe that ABS will help them stop quicker (we have become a lazy society). To my knowledge insurance companies will not reduce premiums on ABS equipped vehicles (that should tell us something).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My insurance company down here in the States supposedly does:

    Anti-Lock Braking System - For A Safer Stop

    Steve, Host
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Good title, but misleading message.

    The article linked to above is totally misleading. ABS is not provided by the automotive industry for quicker and/or shorter distance stopping. It is provided to facilitate severe braking while simultaneously allowing you to maintain directional control of the vehicle.

    If you have an emergency stop situation wherein no directional change is needed and the vehicle itself remains directionally stable then ABS will in most cases be detrimental to quicker or shorter distance stops.

    That's what's wrong with ABS in a nutshell, too much miss-information of this type, leading many folks to have too much confidence that ABS will help them stop quicker.

    Admittedly, sometimes it will allow you to stop quicker, but only under conditions of which you generally will have no foresight.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    It appears we are zooming towards consensus on ABS technology: 1) most ABS systems are tuned to improve steerability at the expense of stopping distance, 2) in many cases ABS will not reduce stopping distances, 3) most drivers don't know how to react when ABS kicks in, 4) the non-automotive press has generally done the driving public a disservice by touting ABS' ability to reduce stopping distance.

    Having said all that, I would submit that, in general, a 95% of the driving public, if properly informed how ABS operates, will be better off with ABS than without it.

    Can we get back to discussing Highlanders now?
  • robvnrobvn Member Posts: 5
    Does any one know what was done to the 4 cylinder engine to get to 160HP in 2004? Was it a ECU chip tweaking? Are 2003's updatable?
  • ssiussiu Member Posts: 25
    This article (from Toronto's largest newspaper) claims that, based on its recent tests, today's ABS system does help you stop shorter (on average), assuming driver is using is correctly (i.e. not pumping the brakes etc.)

    http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/La- yout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&amp- ;cid=1071184207559

    The article will not be avaliable 2 weeks after original posting date, so here are some quotes:


    Contrary to what you may believe, you can stop your car or truck consistently shorter with ABS than you can without it. Sufficiently shorter, perhaps, to save your life. ...

    But the technology, as a whole, has progressed exponentially since (when ABS first appears). ...

    As a result, today's anti-lock brake systems can generally outbrake the best of drivers — even in a straight-line stop.

    That point is not immediately apparent, even when you drive hundreds of cars and trucks a year, as we do. ...

    Conducting the braking and acceleration tests at AJAC's annual Canadian Car of the Year TestFest as I did for several years, however, made me aware of the dramatic differences that have developed between vehicles with and without ABS. ...

    Over the past three years, for example, the average stopping distance from 100 km/h, for Economy and Family class cars with ABS, was 42.3 metres. For those without ABS, it was 46.9 metres. ...

    For compact SUVs, the results were similar: 43.0 metres with ABS, 47.2 metres without.

    Just as impressive, the best stopping distance in a vehicle without ABS was longer than the worst with ABS out of 44 vehicles, with just a single exception.

    Compelling as those numbers are, they do not conclusively make the case, ...

    What I needed, to be very sure of my conclusion, was some back-to-back test data from the same vehicles, with and without ABS in operation.

    Thanks to Walter Koller and David White at The Advanced Driving Consultants (ADC) and to Chrysler, General Motors and Toyota, I was able to generate precisely that data.

    The folks at ADC, an advanced driver training school specializing in training for company personnel, kindly permitted me to use the acceleration track and skidpad at Mosport Park during one of their scheduled training days. They also loaned me one of their instructors, Matt White, to do the driving.

    The three automakers each provided a vehicle for the purpose: a Chrysler Town & Country minivan, a Buick Rainier SUV and a Toyota Camry sedan, respectively.

    Those vehicles were not randomly chosen. Each is based on one of the best-selling platforms in its class, so they represent the ABS technology that people are buying in today's mass market — not some super-sophisticated systems that only a few can afford.

    I engaged White's services, rather than driving myself, to ensure that the non-ABS results were as good as they could get.

    Matt is a Formula 1600 racer of some repute (in addition to sitting on the pole at the Molson Indy weekend race, he has won five times at Mosport and Trois-Rivières), with a reputation for his braking expertise.

    To ensure accurate and consistent data measurement I used a computer-based Vericom instrument, the same as used for Canadian Car of the Year testing. We conducted from three to five 100-to-0 km/h stops on each vehicle, both with the ABS active, and with the fuse for the system removed, in which case it reverted to normal non-ABS operation.

    In compiling the data, I used only the three best results in each case. Then, because the purpose of the test was to compare results with and without ABS, not between vehicles, I averaged the results for all three.

    There were few surprises in those results. In fact, the most surprising thing was how very good Matt is on the brakes — both in terms of judging the threshold of lockup and relaxing and reapplying the brakes immediately if it occurred.

    But even that skill level was no match for ABS. On average, the vehicles stopped 2.9 metres shorter with ABS on than with it disconnected (44.8 m with it on, 47.7 m with it off, with two people on board).

    And in no case was Matt able to stop shorter by threshold braking than by using the ABS.

    He came close (within a metre) with one vehicle, in which the anti-lock system became excited on a bump that caused the wheels to get light momentarily.

    But even that anomaly couldn't reverse the results.

    We also tested that vehicle stopping from 80 km/h, to show the difference speed makes.

    ... at that lower speed, without the influence of the bump, that vehicle stopped 2.3 m shorter with ABS than without — about 8 per cent, which was consistent with the results we obtained with the other two vehicles.

    There is one other point to keep in mind.

    In all these tests, both for Canadian Car of the Year testing and in our program, the driver was aware of and prepared for the need to make the shortest possible stop.

    There was no panic factor.

    And even then, the first stop, without ABS, was almost always the longest — often the one not included in the final average.

    In the real world, any time you have to stop that hard, you are in a panic situation.

    And inevitably, without ABS, you will lock the brakes, thus increasing the stopping distance even further, not to mention giving up any chance of steering out of whatever problem you are in. ...

    The results are conclusive. Even a skilled race driver can benefit from ABS.


    Gerry Malloy, B.M.E., M.Eng., can be reached at mgmalloy@aol.com.
  • ssiussiu Member Posts: 25
    I don't know how the ABS discussion got started on this forum ... but I post the article because I think it is very significant. It makes a claim that some people don't believe/agree, and back it up with its tests/data. It throws down the gauntlet to the drivers who still believe that they can personally do better on a non-ABS car (compared to driving a car with a good ABS system properly).

    BTW, don't shoot the messanger! Anyways I end up buying a Honda Accord (was considering the Highlander) so I won't be reading this forum much anymore. The forum host should probably direct this and all future ABS posts to an appropriate forum.
  • 1sttimevolvo11sttimevolvo1 Member Posts: 189
    This article (from Toronto's largest newspaper) claims that, based on its recent tests, today's ABS system does help you stop shorter (on average), assuming driver is using is correctly (i.e. not pumping the brakes etc.)

    Why would anyone ever assume that it would help you stop shorter?
    Since the inception of ABS, I was of the understanding that it allowed you more control of the vehicle in a panic stop.
  • rugby65rugby65 Member Posts: 81
    "Why would anyone ever assume that it would help you stop shorter?
    Since the inception of ABS, I was of the understanding that it allowed you more control of the vehicle in a panic stop."

    That's the whole Idea! "to allow you more control"
    If you have ever seen tests of the ABS system on Tv You will notice that the test is done on dry pavement and wet pavement. The driver is demonstrating a panic stop at high speeds and the vehicle will stop in a shorter distance With ABS, BECAUSE the wheel's don't lock up.
  • 1sttimevolvo11sttimevolvo1 Member Posts: 189
    That's the whole Idea! "to allow you more control"
    If you have ever seen tests of the ABS system on Tv You will notice that the test is done on dry pavement and wet pavement. The driver is demonstrating a panic stop at high speeds and the vehicle will stop in a shorter distance With ABS, BECAUSE the wheel's don't lock up.


    Ummm.....I understand the control part. That was my point. Since ABS was first discussed in Popular Science back in the late 70's the benefit touted then was the control when braking. I don't remember much discussion about shorter stopping distances being the PRIMARY benefit.

    The whole effort was to allow the driver to still be able to steer the vehicle whe in a panic braking situation. Shorter stopping distances may be a residual benefit, but not the primary reason for their inception.

    Pre-ABS, when the wheels locked up the driver would likely skid in whatever direction the wheels would be turned. This could potentially take them out of their lane over an embankment, into oncoming traffic.....whatever.

    I disagree with the notion that the primary benefit of ABS is shorter stopping distance, because that was not the focus.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Confusing the issue!

    The general public isn't into threshold braking nor professional driving...

    The test would have been a lot more valid, and the results completely reversed, with REAL WORLD testing.

    Straight line, panic, severe braking, continuous extreme brake pedal pressure but with, and without ABS.
  • 1sttimevolvo11sttimevolvo1 Member Posts: 189
    The general public isn't into threshold braking nor professional driving...

    True. But if the average driver were going to be concerned with one or the other, preference would have to be for "professional driving" concerns, i.e. control. If I apply the brakes due to an obstruction in front of me, I'm less concerned about estimating the distance to impact than I am with the potential ability to manuever away from the obstacle.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Mostly likely means "freezing at the wheel".

    That's why I think driver simulators will solve LOTS of these type of problems.

    I'm embarrassed to admit it but during flight training I "lost it" in IFR conditions over the north cascades (NOT A SIMULATION). I froze and the instructor had to take over and recover from the dive I had unconciously allowed the plane to enter. I knew exactly what to do but fear took over and I just sat there like a dummy.

    Even after getting my license I never flew without another pilot.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    A few facts for you to ponder: maximum braking force is generated at about 10-15% "wheel slip." (0% slip is a rolling tire and 100% slip is a sliding tire.)

    Sliding (i.e., locked) wheels are travelling faster than non-sliding wheels. This is why a rear wheel lockup causes the back end to spin around. When the front wheels lock, you lack the ability to steer but at least the rear end doesn't come around.

    The ABS software can be tuned to minimize stopping distance at the expense of steerability and vice versa. I don't believe any car manufacturer opts for minimum stopping distance. As someone stated, the main benefit of ABS is the ability to steer in a panic stop. Somehow, the notion that ABS reduces stopping distance (which it well may in many cases) is what people remember, not that it gives the driver the ability to steer and avoid an obstacle.
  • hlfanhlfan Member Posts: 46
    I'm no Michael Schumacher, but I know how to drive. And I can tell you I'd much rather have ABS than not.

    Everyone knows locked-up wheels take longer to stop, like Imacmil pointed out yet again. And most knowledgeable drivers will NOT rival a modern ABS in terms of stopping distance, even if they carefully applied/released the breaks, like the Canadian article pointed out. This is common sense, because the computer can measure and adjust much finer and quicker than any human. Maybe you can rival an early 80s system, but not a modern one.

    Now combine typical panic (i.e. locking up and turning the wheel while locked up) and 100% of drivers benefit from ABS, and that's just on dry surfaces. And you get directional stability thrown in free as well ! If you do dirt road rally driving for a living you may be the only exception.

    Cars are not planes, WWest. And I'd much rather have a computer land me in bad weather than an experienced pilot that can't see anything. Like with ABS, you don't have in a choice in the matter these days, so live with it, and embrace it. This does not mean driving closer to the guy in front of you, because you have ABS, but it means stop pumping the breaks, and remember to steer.

    If you don't like ABS, disable it.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    maximum braking force is generated at about 10-15% "wheel slip."

    I have no idea what that means. Can you elaborate?

    tidester, host
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    MY comparison was there to relate the level of training one gets for a flying license vs a driver's license. If we could teach drivers how to respond in strange or unusual circumstances just as we do pilots then hopefully not so many would freeze at the wheel in panic situations.

    And I do disable my ABS during the summer months when the probabilities are less that it can be of help.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The engineering argument is this. With the tire locked and sliding along the pavement the buildup of heat vaporizes the surface rubber and the resulting gas forms a very slippery "gas bearing" between the roadbed and the tire surface.

    On the other hand if the tire is allowed to rotate ever so slightly in relation to the roadbed then as any portion of the tire surface is heated that portion soon rotates away and its temperature never rises to the point of vaporization.

    No vaporization, no "gas bearing".

    But "ever so slightly" is not nearly the same as ABS wherein the mechanical components and hydrauluc fluid "time constants" dictate an on/off cyclic bang-bang servo be used.

    "Threshold braking" can not be achieved with modern day ABS. Not even close.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    Wheel slip is defined as (1-Vw/Vv)*100% where Vw=velocity of the wheel and Vv=velocity of the vehicle. If the car is not moving, wheel slip is 0% and if the wheel is locked (i.e., not spinning) while the car is moving, wheel slip is 100%.

    If you plot wheel slip on the X axis against braking force on the Y axis, you get a curve that rises rapidly (i.e., braking forces increases rapidly as wheel slip begins) and trails off slowly after peaking 10-15% wheel slip. What the curve shows is that braking force is higher for a spinning wheel than a locked wheel.

    Wwest is correct in that ABS keeps the wheels turning by detecting impending slide and dropping the brake line pressure momentarily when the wheel speed sensors detect that wheel speed is approaching zero.

    One could certainly argue (and the Toronto newspaper article supports with real world testing) that modern day ABS systems are as good or better than most drivers' abilities to maintain threshold braking. There are no doubt some "professional" drivers whose abilities at modulating brake pressure could rival ABS. For the vast majority of us mere mortals, a properly used ABS system is going to help us stop and/or steer our way out of trouble more often than not.

    ABS cannot overcome the laws of physics and it's unfortunate that many people seem to think that ABS will help them stop on wet or snowy surfaces in the same distance they could on dry pavement. That's just not possible.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Thanks for the clarification. I had thought you were suggesting the braking force is greater when tires are slipping than when not slipping.

    tidester, host
  • wayne_kremerwayne_kremer Member Posts: 4
    If you ever see this when you go to change your cabin filter (or engine air filter), you have a mouse problem:

    http://webpages.charter.net/waynekremer/IMG_1885.jpg
    http://webpages.charter.net/waynekremer/IMG_1886.jpg

    We noticed the inside air was smelling like dog food. I opened the engine air filter and it was nearly full of dog food...approx. 5 to 6 pounds worth. I caught the mouse and was hoping that would be the end of it...but the cabin still smelled like dog food. Got a replacement cabin air filter and behold it was filled with dog food too! I took out about 3 pounds worth.

    It was tricky to get the dog food out without having it fall down into the fan. Before taking the air filter out, I put cardboard underneath to catch it all. I cut another piece of identical cardboard to act as a shovel and just continued to take the dog food little by little. Not one kibble fell down into the fan.

    Moral of the story...if you notice your dogs food bowls are very clean each morning and you smell dogfood in the cabin, check your both your filters asap....and get that mouse!
  • phrosutphrosut Member Posts: 122
    Dang, I had a problem like that on the Taurus we traded in on this '03 HL. The fix was to put hardware cloth (course screen) across the intake of the engine air filter and another place preventing access to the heater intake. Guess I'll need to do that to this car too.

    Living in the country we have many mice, so getting rid of them isn't an option. And the coons eat the dog food. It's just acorns that end up in the vehicle filter housings, and you can't smell them so maybe I'll be finding 5 pounds of acorns safely stashed later today. Thanks for the tip Wayne.
  • ddosenddosen Member Posts: 1
    Is there an RCA or other direct input to allow an external CD or MP3 player to connect to the stereo on an 02 V6 Limited? I want to use an iPod with the Highlander, and I don't like the quality of the cassette adapter.

    thanks in advance...
  • landdriverlanddriver Member Posts: 607
    I don't know for certain but my hunch is that the factory head unit does not have signal input connections -- if it did, then there would have to be an option on the head unit to select, in addition to AM/FM/Tape/CD functions, the supposed "aux" input.

    However, on Limiteds (unlike non-limiteds), there is a power amp separate from the head unit driving the speakers, so you could probably add a switch and a pair of RCA jacks so you could select between the head unit and the RCA jacks going to the input of the power amp. (With this setup the head unit's volume control would of course have no effect on the iPod's sound level).
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