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Rocky
100% agree
I will bet you that there are more Norwegians in the US than in Norway. Well if you count cross breeds yes.
You would not get in and use that free hospital care I am sure.
I could move to Norway tommorow and I can prove to them through my ancestory that I'm Norweigan. My Great grandmother was 100%
My Great many X over Uncle Ulabrand
Same as Canada. It looks good on the surface. I have known a few Canadians that come to the US for special health care that is not provided in Canada or would take an extremely long time to get
That's Hawg Wash put out by the Pharmaceutical and Health Care Capatalists :sick:
I can tell you the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence.
We disagree the grass is greener having socialism and the rich don't get to have it all, and the common prson has a equal voice. :P
Rocky
Yes...and a humanitarian also. Did you know that Most countries are trying to be like the US ?
The people who benefit most from the status quo should pay the most to maintain it.
YEs...and they do. They also provide a lot of jobs, security, etc...for many families. Now the people of China benefit from the government owning everything...and giving lifelong wages...so why are they all embracing capitalism , eh ?? And causing our gas prices to go up ? ( vain attempt to stay on topic....)
Don't look at it in raw dollars, coward's way out.
YOu look at it in percentages..so I guess the person who gets minimum wage should deride the rest of people ??? Of course you look at it in raw dollars. If I pay more than my share of taxes to support a greater portion of goverment, a greater percentage of welfare addicts, etc....in real dollars and in percentages....where is the fairness ? maybe Sour grapes ?
It was a typo. Someone of your capacity should be able to make assumptions.
LOL ....and you were so so quick to correct me , when I accidentally typed that " gas was up to $72/barrel" ??
See your post above . I guesss you can only give and not take, eh ?? Or maybe you cannot have the capacity to assume what I meant ? You are losing ....
Indeed...we should become like China or Vietnam,...well, the devolution into a landscape of serfs and elites is already underway. That'll be "doing fine" just like them. Some here do seem to want to see the US devolved into a hellhole like China.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. The Chinese people would love to come here and work at McDonalds. To them, working as a slave here, in the US, beats working at the university or government. Most everyone I spoke to are happy to have the opportunity to make their own future.
No where do I say that we should be like China. They...China , are trying to be like us. I was just there. I went to many places..not the touristy places either...since we were there to adopt. ( we were in the same group as Meg Ryan). They have traffic jams everywhere , not just in the big cities either. GAS prices going up due to this.
What round of perks will our right-wingers award to big oil next?
Well, if you don't like big oil, you can park it and let us use the oil / gas..... :P
On topic: China used to sell us gasoline. I used to test the stuff when I worked for an independent consulting company. The light gas was offloaded at the Carquinez Strait , where the pipelines would send the gas to be upgraded to higher octanes. Nowadays, they are no longer exporting to us.
I am not in the oil business, except when I pump gas into my car...
I think Capatalism is better than communism, but not as good as socialism that's set up like Norways.
I think the rich have way to much darn power and can make the middle class and poor suffer with $ 4 dollar gas. What can we do about it but complain. Atleast the Socialist country's get something in return for $5 dollar gas, Free healthcare, education, etc.
Rocky
Canada is good, but their heathcare is bankrupt..the socialized part is so out of wack that people go into the emergency room for a headache. This was featured in Time magazine a while ago.
Socialism may sound good, but when you provide something to everyone without having that someone to work hard for it...then pretty soon the whole country is asking for free handouts....
that is what happened to the workers' paradise, Russia, and Cuba, and North Korea, and China. They cannot believe that the West has to pay their farmers NOT to grow crops !!
Gas is going to come down sometime , now that other countries are siding with the US , and condemning IRAN.
me: From: http://www.fsmitha.com/world/norway.html "Taxes
Norwegians have a progressive income tax, a gross assets tax, a value added tax of 23%, and taxes on gasoline which leave the price of gas more than what people in the U.S. are accustomed to paying."
About 1/3 the way down in http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/between-the-lines/between-the-lines-autoweek-on-nor- ways-car-taxes-158515.php "That said, the Norwegian government is at least socialist enough to control all of the nation’s oil production. And wouldn’t you know, Norway is the world’s third largest oil-producing nation, second only to our good friends the Saudis and our equally reliable friends the Russians. Last year, Norway sold $38.4b’s worth of Texas Tea. With a 78% tax on oil company profits, the government’s coffers are stoked enough to put a fiskerfarse in every pot and pay for sensitivity courses for all men aged eight and up."
So yes the good life in Norway is supported by high oil prices. Without the oil revenue, just like most OPEC nations, their economy is minimal.
And a little further down in the same link - "Then these citizens of the world’s third largest oil producing nation must fork out $6.60 for a gallon of gas — two-thirds of which is tax. And then there’s the rest: all the usual yearly taxes and fees and other weird stuff (they even have a big-cars-do-more-damage-to-the-road tax). No wonder Norway has one of the lowest car ownership rates in Europe. Take THAT Saudi Arabia!"
So Rocky, you think you can afford a 50% income tax, a 24% VAT on what's left, and then pay $6.60/gal. for gas? You're nuts, or very poor and lazy if you want that. Because any ambitious and successful person wants to keep most of what they earn after paying their way (of services they use).
We all have the right to vote and all have the right to free speech.
The difference isn't a huge gap. That small gap though is important.
Hell I'm proud to be an american no matter which darn Capatalistic [non-permissible content removed] oil company takes my money. :P
Gas in Amarillo Texas is still $2.69 if you look around according to my friends.
Perhaps in Norway it is better ? I do not know.
The things I know about socialism cannot be printed here.
Maybe you are part of the rich middle class that deserves , like the rest of us, the higher gas prices ? Over here, gas is more expensive than any part of US.
Hooray for Canada...I hope they allow the capitalist to extract all that oil and gas from the oil shale they have up there....
CIA Factbook: "The Norwegian economy is a prosperous bastion of welfare capitalism, featuring a combination of free market activity and government intervention. The government controls key areas, such as the vital petroleum sector (through large-scale state enterprises). The country is richly endowed with natural resources - petroleum, hydropower, fish, forests, and minerals - and is highly dependent on its oil production and international oil prices, with oil and gas accounting for one-third of exports. Only Saudi Arabia and Russia export more oil than Norway."
Isn't my heritage great ? my great grandfather risked going to jail for this system in the 1900's
Rocky
I do to. I want Canada my sister country to be as well-off as possible don't you ?
Canada is a great country just like ours.
Rocky
The difference is that if we are doing what we are doing now(speaking on edmunds) but in a socialist/communist country, we would be in jail. OK...not in the socialized welfare countries like Norway., but censored...
We all have the right to vote and all have the right to free speech.
right on...I agree with you here. !!!
The difference isn't a huge gap. That small gap though is important.
I disagree here. I think the two are fundamentally different...but they are getting closer and the dividing line is murky .
Hell I'm proud to be an american no matter which darn Capatalistic [non-permissible content removed] oil company takes my money.
LOL...come on, just because they have a commodity that rises in price....? OK...I see....you are venting..
gas prices in SF bayarea has always been higher than anywhere else in the nation.
hope fintail feels better .....
$6.60 per gallon, whoa that is something for a country that is totally oil independent.
ROTFL.....man that got me....that was a good one.
The home of Michael Savage pays the highest ?
Ummm No...That would be NY. :P $4.14 and one station I believe was charging $4.50 a gal. :surprise:
BTW what are you paying for gas ?
Rocky
P.S.
I'm not really venting, but love our great discussion to why gas prices are so high in this free market, free of regulation.
I agree we need to update out infrastructure.
Rocky
Before I was doing consulting work for the oil industry in 1986 to 87, I had a marine biology degree..and was a tree hugger...but a practical one , a right wing tree hugger. I only hug them before I cut them down...hehehe....J/K.
I luv Savage and his perspective on how he see's the world. I can respect his opinon.
Rocky
87 - $2.699
89 - $2.799
93 - $2.869
94 - $2.899
diesel - $2.719
Good thing I don't have a life... I hardly go anywhere on weekends...
kcram - Pickups Host
Rocky
Yeah, I'm sure...a regular Carnegie...
" If I pay more than my share of taxes"
How do you determine "your share"? A person making $x and a person making $x^3 should not pay the same raw amount. The people who benefit the most should sacrifice the most to enable it. It's just.
".where is the fairness ? "
Ever hear of the greater good? Burn any semblance of a social safety net, and you'll spend much more on a personal security force to protect your family from slaughter than you'll pay in taxes.
"LOL ....and you were so so quick to correct me"
It wasn't really a correction, it was simply to add that gas is more expensive than oil. Don't be so defensive. And I doubt you are in a position to speak of anyone's "capacity"...
"I have no idea what you are trying to say"
No surprise. I'll move on. Are you brightness's brother or cousin?
Capitalistas...the gap is growing, and it's going to be messy.
China and Vietnam are "doing fine"...that's all that one needs to know.
OTOH, I suspect we'll need to pass $5 for any significant changes to driving and traffic to be seen. And if that price is sustatined for longer than the merciful several weeks we had it last year, the economic consequences could be interesting.
The oil cartel must feel some sort of sympathy for them ?
Rocky
The most I personally saw last year, for premium, was $3.35 or so. I am sure it was more somewhere around here. Luckily I have a short commute and traffic here is always so bad that recreational driving is best left to Sundays, so I am not impacted. But due to insane housing prices, lots of people here commute, so many people will be impacted.
I agree with the numbers above, just not with the price of crude.
IF GM were to somehow muster $36 Billion in profits, would anyone scream that they were charging to much for cars? Probably not, and the UAW would be shouting hurray and demanding a 25% raise.
IF GM were to somehow muster $36 Billion in profits, would anyone scream that they were charging to much for cars? Probably not, and the UAW would be shouting hurray and demanding a 25% raise.
Diesel the UAW demanding a 25% pay raise is hawg wash pal.
They might demand GM to fully fund their pension plan for the first time in there life. :P
OTOH We have people gripe that GM charges to much for cars, when Lamborgini gets away with selling a Ford GT for double the price. :confuse:
Rocky
I was being sarcastic.
Rocky
First off, all the extreme pro capitalism silver spoons on here need to think about more than their precious portfolios. For example: my parents are both 70, retired, live 400 miles away and have driven here every three months to visit my one year old daughter. However, they probably will not make the trip planned for next month as they are not exactly swimming in money and the gas increase may have them cut the number of trips. So basically a retired life-risking firefighter will skip a visit or two to see his granddaughter so some fat, sit-behind-a-desk pieces of garbage can toss a fatter steak on the grill. However, all is not lost. According to some here, Dad can just get an MBA or further his education some other way so his income will increase - very easy for a 70 year old.
Next, I simply LOVE the work hard, risk/reward type of Republican garbage spewed forth. As if the Exxon guy (and most other highly paid people) started in the friggin mail room and worked their way up. Please. Most highly compensated people KNOW someone - little hard work involved. Get the MBA and the good 'ol boy network will take it from there. I personally know one person, and one only, who makes six figures and grew up dirt poor. He simply busted his butt. Now I know there are more people out there like this (hold the comments please - I'm SURE each of you that agree with the oil companies fall into this category), but not nearly as many as our Republican friends mention in their propaganda.
Last, I'm no economist, but I think I understand supply and demand. If there are 10 trinkets, and 11 people want them, you then have a supply and demand issue. However, with oil/gasoline, no one goes home empty-handed. There is enough for everyone who wants it. This is not a supply and demand issue, it's a GREED issue. If you think otherwise, then pull your collective heads from the rear ends of big business.
This is whats going on in the USA . Whats sad is that we have hospitals closing all the time and over crowded emergancy rooms . The problem is people go to the emergancy room for everything . The USA's healthcare system is so fubar its not funny.
Gas is going to come down sometime , now that other countries are siding with the US , and condemning IRAN.
It doesn't matter if gas is going to come down sometime . The point is we shouldn't have to deal with the gas situation.
We should work to fix out system so we are not dependant on it anymore .
As I've said in another post . The goverment should make it mandatory that every car sold in the usa has the option of diesel , e85 / e95 and hydrogen.
Then make it mandatory that every new gas station built in the USA has at least one pump for each of the options and a delievery system for hydrogen. Then do the same for gas stations when they renovate thier gas tanks .
This will solve our problems . We will no longer have to worry about the gas from the middle east .
I feel compassion for your parents.
Rocky
Just kiddin', sort of.
Yesterday cruising around it looked like we are still at $2.31/$2.33/gal for 87. How can a man who can buy a nice South-Korean small SUV such as myself complain?
Sitting here, on my stretch of 7 days off, drinking fine coffee, glad I'm gone from the Seattle area and it's insane real estate prices, hoping the Sonics will stay in Seattle or at least only move as far as neighboring Bellevue, and enjoying small-town eastern Idaho. Looking to head over to gorgeous Yellowstone Park(2 hours from here, as is Sun Valley and the gorgeous Grand Tetons)as soon as possible. Should I trade for a Toyota Yaris sedan and drive further than the Sportage's 19 city, 24 highway on a gallon of 87 no-lead? The Yaris gets 34 city and 40 highway. I love tough decisions like this! :P
The Sportsman got a tune-up yesterday, coil and spark wires, plugs, fuel filter, etc., so she's ready to rock.
I'm digging how this column is getting to the periphery issues a bit and how they affect ghastly prices. rockylee, I'm also primarily Norwegian so keep up the educatin' on Norway, would ya? I would consider moving there some day if such a thing could be feasibly done, I love the gorgeous fjords over there. I hear that the Norwegian boys are playing the obnoxious rock and roll that the English boys, American boys and Canadian boys have dug for decades, too.
As for getting an MBA or even an Allied health degree like myself later on in age, I realize that 70 is pushing it a bit, but I am living proof that someone in their 40's can go back and study and earn a college degree when twice the age of their college counterparts.
What must be said is that Uncle Sam and the beautiful state of Washington fully-funded the U.I and cost of the education and books, dudes. Yes, a small mountain of bureacracy and red tape to plow through but the lazy B cut me loose so I had time to do the legwork, ya know? Point being that Uncle Sam can help you but you have to be your own advocate and lobby for your own needs and watch and check on the progress of your case. Nuff said and I'm glad to be living in the beautiful Rocky Mountains paying $2.30's for ghastly!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
-juice
One of my friends is a retired FF with 24 rental dwellings that he purchased and fixed up during his off hours. That was his choice of investments, but I took the route of stocks. Neither was right or wrong, the point is to make investments ASAP.
As for changing jobs, another friend is graduating from seminary. She entered after age 70 and being a widow with an R.N.
A person, at any age, doesn't need to continually sit on his "pity pot" because there are numerous opportunities out there for re treading an old tire unless you are convinced you are old and tired.
An old dog can be taught new tricks & it is fun learning them. Conservative lifestyle investments enable retirees to toss a fatter steak on the grill.
Your parents are very fortunate. My stepfather and mother were still working when my mother passed away at 75. My stepfather could no longer continue working construction at 70. So he started driving school bus for $6 per hour in Roswell New Mexico. When my mom passed away a wealthy widow snagged him and now he does not have to work so hard at 79 years young. Many people at 70 are still working. If that is what it takes to buy food and gas. You got to do what it takes to survive.
me: If their car gets 30mpg that is 14 gallons of gas each way - 28gal. Now if gas has gone up $1.00/gal that is $28, or less than $10/month. I understand about fixed incomes and such, but are you sure their budget is squeezed by gasoline, and not heating or prescription costs, or maybe their property tax going up? It is typically property tax increases that are hurting many retirees, that have not saved and invested adequately.
Yeah, I'm sure...a regular Carnegie...
NO..we don't have the resources like Carnegie...but we do more than our fair share..we help/donate to more than 20 organizations...totaling 5 figures per year. But I know you are being sarcastic...
How do you determine "your share"? A person making $x and a person making $x^3 should not pay the same raw amount.
We pay taxes...at the higher rate. We don;t use all those resources...we pay additional for the kids private schools. But property taxes go to public schools. In addition, we donate to charities...which helps social , health care, environmental, etc..issues. I think it is easy....try not to take out from the system...but put back into the system. KInda like what Kennedy said "" ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country "" (he was a closet republican
The people who benefit the most should sacrifice the most to enable it. It's just.
Exactly....that is why many here are asking that the people who take out from the system, to stop...and put in.
Ever hear of the greater good? Burn any semblance of a social safety net, and you'll spend much more on a personal security force to protect your family from slaughter than you'll pay in taxes.
LOL...we do our best..but here in the murder capital of the West, there is not safety net. Even the police says they will only respond to life threatening emergencies only....we had a meeting last night (I am on board of directors), and we talked about installing closed circuit cameras. sigh.....we put in...but still get a sorts of people who only prey on the system.
It wasn't really a correction, it was simply to add that gas is more expensive than oil. Don't be so defensive. And I doubt you are in a position to speak of anyone's "capacity"...
LOL...look at your posts. You were the first one to correct others...and then mention the word "capacity". Now you are saying others are doing it ? I was being sarcastic and pointing out to you what YOU were doing....so now it seems like you are arguing with yourself, pal..... :P
No surprise. I'll move on. Are you brightness's brother or cousin?
Resorting to name calling eh ? LOL/.....It would be better to be his , than youknowwho's brother .....
Well....maybe you should get a time out....eh ?
LOL....
gas prices will go up and down. ....just like gold prices went up...from last year , the price of gold was $450/oz...and many people bought . Now it is at $ 622/oz.....
so are people who own gold greedy? Nope...they made a good investment,...that is all.
good talking to you, fin....but sharpen that wit , and not the tongue, eh ???
Ours' is bad , I agree, but for a completely different but parallel reason. IT is due to Managed care...which does neither. It has high costs, yet does not care for you.
I agree we should try to be more energy independent from fossil fuels.
NO...all people should work hard and save. No need to degrade someone who made it big .
For example: my parents are both 70, retired, live 400 miles away and have driven here every three months to visit my one year old daughter. However, they probably will not make the trip planned for next month as they are not exactly swimming in money and the gas increase may have them cut the number of trips. So basically a retired life-risking firefighter will skip a visit or two to see his granddaughter
Up to here, I feel your pain. Can you have them move closer. Part of the problem, is that people live too far away for thier own good. They can easily live closer to you guys. YEsterday on Yahoo news, it said that Americans are commuting longer and using the car MORE....
so some fat, sit-behind-a-desk pieces of garbage can toss a fatter steak on the grill.
No need to berate others who worked hard and made it in the land of opportunity.
Next, I simply LOVE the work hard, risk/reward type of Republican garbage spewed forth.
Wait, that is the same work ethic that is instilled to all since kindergarten. YOu try and work hard...this is the land of opportunity.
As if the Exxon guy (and most other highly paid people) started in the friggin mail room and worked their way up. Please. Most highly compensated people KNOW someone - little hard work involved.
Are you listening to the amount of stuff coming out of you ? There are many many many people who work hard and get rewarded....but there are also many failures. And then, there are the ones who do not work hard but leech off the system. MOst highly compensated people also had skills, or a nice degree, to back them up. IF there are no results, then they would be fired....
I personally know one person, and one only, who makes six figures and grew up dirt poor. He simply busted his butt.
I grew up dirt poor and could not go out with the gang, cause I only had $30 in the bank, and it was only the middle of the month. So I worked hard. That is the US way. NO freeloaders or whiners , please. BTW, there are many MBA people who are struggling. I know many people who worked hard...and of course, there are those whose families owned corporations also. That is the way of life....where you are born....where you find gas ,etc..
There is enough for everyone who wants it. This is not a supply and demand issue, it's a GREED issue. If you think otherwise, then pull your collective heads from the rear ends of big business.
yikes...are you saying that supply is infinite ? So there is a lot of gas for everyone ? I can personally testify that back in 1987, China exported gasoline to the US...I was on the tanker with the Us Customs officers before offloading. Now, instead of selling to us..they are buying up all gas that they can get their hands on....they even tried to buy UNOCAL !!....
There is a limited supply. IT is a supply and demand issue. PRices will , unfortunately, go up.
That is the way life is....I hope that the parents find a way to pay for thier bills....but the social issues will only deepen...but that is another topic.
I once got free gas every month
I also used the light gas (octane of 50) and mixed it with acetone and toluene and benzene, to raise the octane....and the VW van ran fine on it.....
those were the days....
fun and nice
YOur post was fair , insightful and deep. I loved it.
take care...
How do you determine that?
"Exactly....that is why many here are asking that the people who take out from the system, to stop...and put in. "
I don't think you understand. Those making the most are benefitting the most from the status quo, and it is their responsibility to assume the greatest burden of maintaining said status quo. Someone who reaps 90% of the rewards should assume 90% of the costs. I don't see the offspring of the inheritance elite/crony capitalists going off to fight and die...
"he was a closet republican"
I suspect you might be...
"and then mention the word "capacity"
Read your posts. You first mentioned that term. I know your literacy is better than that.
"Resorting to name calling eh ?"
Is it namecalling? Maybe I hit a little close to home. You have to admit there are some deafening similarities here.
" Well....maybe you should get a time out....eh ?"
Only if you get one too...
Comparing gold to oil is laughable. One has a bit more of an impact on the economy and the actions of countless people and families than the other.
"No need to degrade someone who made it big ."
And no need to blindly defer to those born on third base who act like they've hit home runs. Money doesn't equal right. A lot of people "make it big" through less than legitimate reasons. I am sure you think "Decider" Dubya made it big, too.
"good talking to you, fin....but sharpen that wit "
Likewise, and practice what you preach.
China and Vietnam are doing fine...
A little venting and moaning about those prices is OK :P
But we have to stop going off into these off topic stretches of discussion.