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Comments
Its been so long since I've had a new car...is the 1000 mile break in period still applicable? I'm buying this baby, not leasing, so I don't want to do any long term damage by driving too fast on the highway before she's ready.
Thanks
We love our 2002. We use the cup holders. No biggie. My wife, who drives a Mustang, says our 2002 drives like a sports car.
Bob
Dash finish is brushed aluminum, not that ghastly wood of the Legacy and Outback. Java pearl is black with a bit of orange, red, and green metal flake mixed in.
Highway noise can also be attributed to the tires. Our Foresters are equipped with tires that have slighlty more aggressive tread patterns than average passenger cars. Changing to a premium touring tire can dramatically reduce road noise.
Eric -- Wow, you're the first person I know of to drive the 2003 Forester. The black paint actually sounds like the one on my 98 Forester S -- black with shiny little bits of red and orange paint.
Ken
I also saw a brochure on the new Forester. It was the only one the dealer had, so I couldn't take it back with me. However, the sales guy photocopied the specs/contents spread for me.
Subypower-
The specs did indeed say the 5-speed (not the auto) Forester has a 2400 pound towing, like what Patti said. Are you sure the owners manual said 2000 pounds for both models?
At a glance:
• The '03 model is .4" shorter than '02 model
• The '03 model has bit less interior volume than '02 model
• The '03 model has a bit more cargo volume than '02 model
• The '03 model has .3" more rear leg room than '02 model
• The '03 model is the same height as the '02 model
• The '03 model is .2" narrower than '02 model
• The '03s front track is 58.9" (58.1 for the '02 model)
• The '03s rear track is 58.5" (57.7 for the '02 model)
• The ground clearance is the same for both '03 and '02 models.
Bob
Ken
Sell your used car
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
The other responces are all 100% true, but on the '02 manual it says that by leaving it at the position that where sunroof automatically stops near the back without opening all the way you will reduce the very low and loud vibration sound. It couldnt be more true. I dont know if the 01 has the same feature but you could still try leaving it about 4inches from full open.
Bob
got a lot helpful info from you wonderful people. Owe everybody
a big thank you here!
Anyway, just want to proudly annouce that we, actually my wife,
has become the owner of the first 2003 Forester sold in
Silicon Valley/San Francisco Bay Area. Stevens Creek Subaru
got the first shippment on Friday, same for Carlsen Subaru
and other dealers in the area.
We went check out the car immediately... Mike Saunders,
the quick tongue boss of Stevens Creek Subaru simply
gave us an offer too good to refuse. We made the deal
right at the spot, one hour later, my wife had the car,
the 1st 2003 Forester sold in Silicon Valley.
It's a red XS Premium, cloth, AT with auto dimming mirror,
tailpipe cover, and upgraded speakers. Originally
my wife wanted the leather... however, after we checked
out the real thing, I was kinda disappointed with the
quality of the stitching job. The beige cloth with
the vinyle trim actually looked very tastefully done.
The dealer also has several black, white, and gold ones.
Mmmm... almost everybody agrees red(more like purple red
metalic) is the best looking one. White is nice, too.
For those who think that 2002 Forester is a good bargain now...
Let me tell you, the dealers here are more than willing
to give you some surprises. I think nowadays only Honda
dealers would charge CRV over MSRP. They want the markup
because it is a brandnew 2003 model? Sorry, not for Forester.
I had checked the prices with several dealers and nobody
would do the MSRP/markup game. All I can say is that
the price I paid for the 2003 Forester was so good such
that it really made no-sense to go for a 2002 *NOW.*
Sure, Mike Saunders is famous for being
an aggressive deal maker... you may not find someone like
him in your area, still, I would say it is definitely
possible to get a good deal on the 2003.
The sales Ted Atanus had been very helpful, too.
No no no... not trying to do advertising for
Stevens Creek Subaru. I am just a happy customer.
Personally I am driving a '97 Toyota Supra Twin Turbo.
Have driven many high performance cars... M3, C5, 911...etc.
Before We decided on 2003 Forester, we had testdriven
RV4, CRV, 2002 Forester...etc. After putting 30 miles
on the odometer, I would say that I was very impressed
by the new Impreza chassis. Man, should I say surprised?
I just did a complete Zaino job on the car.
Time for the bed now... will share more info about what I found
with the 2003 with everyone tomorrow... Nite.
-bear
Steve
Bob
• Moonroof now has an auto-open and auto-close feature. That's great news. My Explorer has an auto-open feature, which I like a lot.
• Rear wiper now has a deicer feature on both the X and XS models. I guess that means there is now an electrical element in the glass where the wiper rests to help prevent ice build up.
Bob
Really nice looking. They had it next to a 2002 Forester-S, so I could compare pretty well. Of course the doors were locked. In my opinion, the 2003 appears more (???) not sure what the right word is...Ah..I think it appears more SUV-like! To me it looks larger, although I know it's not.
Other stuff: I liked the rounded fog lights and the back hatch/bumper looked better. Sure glad to see the remote open fuel door. Now if they fixed the CEL problem and bring in a Red one...
Jim J.
Have a great day everybody :~)
Paul A
Huntington Station, New York
02 Forester L
As to the interior measurements I just got lazy and did not report them, but since you asked, here they are:
EPA Interior Cargo Volume in cubic feet:
2003: 93.5" (91.2" with moonroof)
2002: 94.3" (84.8" with moonroof) That's not a typo!
EPA Cargo Volume in cubic feet:
2003:
32.0 (rear seat up)
29.6 (rear seat up with moonroof)
64.1 (rear seat down-SAE)
62.7 (rear seat down-SEA with moonroof)
2002: (from '02 Forester brochure)
32.0 (rear seat up)
no measurement (rear seat up with moonroof)
63.1 (rear seat down-SAE)
58.5 (rear seat down-SEA with moonroof)
Bob
We just hit 1000 miles on our '02. This is our first Subaru and we love it!
I'm looking for maintenance information specific to the Forester. If an archive covering this topic exists, please point me in that direction. In particular I'm looking for discussions on synthetic lubricants (oil, trans, diff, brake fluid, etc.) and filters.
I changed the oil filter and would like to find information about compatible oil & trans filters. I'm considering WIX, NAPA Gold, Mobil 1 or K&N oil filters. Some parts stores do not yet list filters for the '02 and although the filters probably haven't changed for a couple of years, I'd like to be sure. Perhaps I should stay with Subaru filters?
Also, does anyone find it peculiar that Subaru makes it so easy to change the trans fluid & filter by supplying a drain plug and external filter and yet say the ATF filter is maintenance-free and it is not necessary to change it unless it is damaged or leaking? Does anyone know of an after-market replacement?
I understand the full set of maintenance manuals are around $800.00. Has anyone purchased a set (or subset) and have recommendations for a source and a list of which manuals cover which topics?
Thanks in advance.
You mean "EPA Interior Volume in cubic feet", I assume!
Thanks for the numbers!
The 2003 is no higher, apparently, but I remember someone here saying that the occupants sit slightly higher, so maybe the vertical orientation is where some of the space is coming from.
I'll be really curious as to what some experienced Forester fans find out from sitting in them, back-to-back.
As far as cargo room goes, it's more than the upcoming VW Touareg (in all fairness, a different kind of vehicle which should be excellent -- but I find the limited cargo room in "SUV's" like the X5 and Touareg as interesting to me as those who abhor unibody construction and more limited towing and offroading in today's hybrids).
I've never been here before, and after having read all the other posts on the page, I'm not sure if I should be. But you seem like nice folks, so here goes....
My husband and I have a '01 Forester (but it still feels new to us... even though much of the talk seems to be about the '03). We love it! I have one small problem with it, however, and wondered if anyone out there had any useful tips. As with many vehicles that have a rear wiper, we get this run-off streak down the tailgate coming from the base of the shaft of the wiper. Is there anything you can put on it to seal it or something so that it doesn't streak? It makes the car look dirty and older somehow. I'm also concerned that it could affect the paint and eventually rust out. Any ideas?
Thanks!
Sam
Dan-o
First time around I didn't see the decimal points. Guess I ought to wipe the dust of my screen a little more often. In that case I guess it's the same old, new math.
Paul A
Huntington Station, New York
02 Forester L
tidester
Host
SUVs
Thank you for the kind words. I have already put two layers
of Zaino on the car. The purple color has faded a little, replaced
by a deep glossy shinning red. It is more like a red metalic with
a tint of purple. Gorgeous! The car really standed up among
several red cars parked outside the mall this afternoon.
The rear window now has a separate wave shaped deicer line right
under the wiper. It can only be triggered along with the windshield
wiper deicer and the mirror defogger.
Paul:
Regarding to the numbers... there is nothing tricky. It goes
in this way: The new Forester/Impreze chassis allows Subaru engineers
to raise the front seat without sacrificing the handling. A higher
seat means less headroom hence less interior volume; however,
a higher front seat would also give you more rear leg room in return.
The suspension is all new. The rear strut towers have been lowered
so you get a bigger cargo space. Smart engineering, isn't it?
Dan-o:
My advice is to visit a dealer to check out the cars first.
Look into the details and check out the colors. Make sure
that you know exactly what you want! Some options may not be
immediately available on any coming cars. For instance, I have not
seen any XS come with rear spoiler or cargo nets. Most XS Premiums
came equiped either with Pop option group #1 or group #2. Have both and leather,
the MSRP will go over $27K. If you are interested in getting the leather,
be sure to sit in a real car and see if it is really worth of the price.
Things will be much easier for you if you decide to go for a specific
pop option group. Going for special order will have you lose
the bargain power.
Call up every single dealer and tell them exactly what you want.
Ask them if they have any stock available. If they do not have
the one you have, ask them when the next allocation will come and
have them call you right after they get the cars.
After you spot the car you want, go talk to the dealer.
Everbody wants to move the inventory as soon as possible.
It is just some dealers will do this more aggressively.
Mike Saunders of Stevens Creek Subaru probably is one
of the extreme cases. If you make him clear that you
are serious about getting the car, probably he will
just give you the price you want. People at Carlsen Subaru
seem to be very nice and friendly but I have never done
the *real thing* with them so I have no idea how much
they can give in to win your deal. Still, these two
are the biggest dealers in the area, have the biggest inventory.
I will always start on these two first. I know there will
be another allocation coming in late May. Probably it is a good
idea for you to get the car in this batch. Right now, just
focus on narrowing down your selection. No need to rush
to the dealers out of the area.
As for the pricing, I would say that several dealers, including
out of state ones, have quoted that the *cost* plus 5% will be
the asking price. This will be your good start point.
Actually I think you may just tell Mike Saunders that you are
sent to him by the couple who bought the first '03 then you will
reach a good deal easier/faster. No guarantee here though.
BTW, our car's port of entry of is Vancouver, WA.
-bear
Bob
In looking over my options for purchasing a new vehicle, it seems that the Forester and CRV are the two best choices.
After a bit of research on the official sites, car review sites, and newsgroups, it seems that: The Forester is safer and has a better AWD system, while the CRV has a little bit better interior design/comfort. Also, it is several hours to the nearest Subaru dealer, while there is a Honda dealer right in town. (Also a few other minor pros & cons for each, but these seem to be the most important points.)
I currently own a 1998 Chevy Cavalier LS sedan (with 150hp 4) which has so far met my needs. It so far has gotten through the bad weather and bad roads here in Minnesota, but something with AWD would be more reassuring. And the added cargo space is beneficial (why I'm considering the Forester over the Leagacy). Plus either vehicle would have much higher safety ratings.
I would just like your opinions of and experiences with the Forester and CRV, and anything that would help me make a better decision.
The CR-V has done impressively so far in NHTSA crash tests -- better than the previous generatiion Forester. However, I'd expect the new Forester to equal these results, but we won't know for a while. Usually a clue is how a shared platform does -- e.g. the Civic does very well, and the new Impreza does great in the IIHS crash tests.
Several hours to the nearest Subaru dealer is a nasty factor. The vehicle should be reliable but it sounds like a pain to get to the dealer in the event you need anything.
-maxdaddy
Dan-o: I've found the best no-haggle dealerships to be Carlsen, Santa Cruz, Diablo (Walnut Creek) and Marin.
wraith: Both the Forester and CR-V have received top reviews in their categories for the last few years. From a safety standpoint, both vehicles are excellent. The new CR-V did edge out the previous generation Forester, but the 2003 Forester is still yet to be tested. Since it's based off the more rigid chassis of the 2002 Impreza, it just as may well improve.
What type of driving do you like to do? The Forester is closer to a passenger car and will handle and perform on the road better than the CR-V. Also, as you mentioned, Subaru's AWD systems are simply better. The CR-V's Real Time 4WD system is a part-time system that won't offer the continuous seamless operation compared to even the basic viscous coupling unit in the 5-speed Subarus.
If handling isn't as a priority, but passenger room is, then the CR-V might be a better choice. Honda did a great job with increasing rear passenger room with the CR-V.
One other point is that the Legacy actually has more cargo room than the Forester.
Ken
ateixeira "CR-V vs Forester: 2nd generation ..." Apr 25, 2002 6:07pm
Your assessments are pretty much spot on: The Forester (and all Subarus) have a better AWD system. It is truly AWD, not an on-demand 4WD like the CRV's system. The CRV is roomier, although not necessarily more comfortable. The Forester is sportier to drive, and handles better.
Actually the Legacy wagon has more cargo space, and rear leg room than the Forester.
Bob
I liked the new gauge cluster, with speedo in the center. I thought though that gauges would be white-faced, but they're not. I prefer a clock position in old Forester, now it's mounted next to dash storage and is LCD (can be hard to see in bright light). I also liked S Premium alloys more in older model. Seat's fabric in 2003 was kind of strange and too textured for my taste.
Black paint was so-so, with noticeable orange peel -- but probably no better and no worse than in prev generation.
Overall it's a very much the same Forester, just extensively freshened up. So for those of you who're on the fence (2002 vs 2003), go try and see both, and if the deal for 2002 is MUCH better, go for it.
MSRP w/o option was 22,467, with options on that particular car it came to 25K+.
I'd be interested to see/try the X model, with non-painted cladding.
Bob
If not, location, location, location. I'd probably stick with the CRV and local dealership support. Both are nice vehicles.
-jim
Santa Cruz usually has pretty good prices -- flat pricing, usually a little less than Carlsen. What was their add-on to invoice? What are 2002s going for there?
Ken
I will talk more in the upcoming '03 Forester report.
Right now I can only simply tell you that if you need
more space, go for CRV, other than that, no reason
to buy a CRV. Ok ok... probably the location
of the dealer is an issue.
As far as safety is concerned, I am a strong believer
of the active safety measure. You may survive
the collison in an unibody car, but in most cases,
you will have to say bye-bye to the car.
Avoiding the danger at the first place is more
important than anything else. Forester is surperior
to CRV at this aspect.
'03 Forester's interior parts are made of
higher quality material. Like the overall setup or not,
you will still have to admit that the car
indeed feels more luxury inside. Not the Lexus/Acura/BMW/Mercedes
level yet but definitely a little better than CRV's.
CRV's climate control knobs are so tacky.
Pricewise, our loaded XS Premium is cheaper
than the CRV EX. Believe it?
It is amusing to see so many people have a nearly
blind faith on Honda cars. In Japan, Fuji Heavy Industry
is deemed as equal to Honda. Before WW2, FHI was
the Nakajima Aircraft Manufacturer. The famous zero fighter's
engine was made by Nakajima. The argueable best Japanese fighter
in WW2, the Ki-84 Hayate Frank, was made by Nakajima.
Its 2000hp engine was the most compact air cooled engine
in the world around that time.
Oh, and I was very surprised to find out how stiff
the new Forester/Impreza chassis was!
-bear
Nick (the salesman) at Santa Cruz was pretty evasive regarding the price for new 2003 Foresters. He said, below MSRP but definitely much higher percent over invoice as compared to 2002. No 2.9% financing (or any other incentives) for 2003 either.
But then, it was clear to him that I was not actively shopping... Maybe he would have offered a better deal if I was indeed looking to purchase.
nello
Also just installed 17mm rear swaybar, factory is 13mm. Nice difference. $64.00 us with shipping from Puyallup Chev/Subaru in Wa state. (subaruparts.com on web). Look for 2002 Impreza. Same Sway Bar. 1/2 hr to install.
Just went to site....Now Bar is $81. Guess I got a deal.(or they mispriced web until someone ordered it)
Unfortunately I will be out of town for the next few days, so I will not be able to report on anything new until I get back.
Bob
As for size, I have to agree. The CR-V compares more favorably with the larger Outback wagon than the Forester.
Looks like Santa Cruz Subaru has only one or two 03 hence they have not really fixed the pricing yet. When I checked with Carlsen, the sales were very honest and upfront, just gave me the price immediately. The price was none worse none better than what you would get for a '02 last year. I got the same impression from Stevens Creek. Both dealers still have a few X available. You may consider paying them a visit and do a test drive. To me, I feel the car handles substantially different from 02.
No-haggling may get you a more comfortable buying experience but it may also mean harder to get the best deal. I usually buy cars directly from fleet managers or someone higher. The price a fleet manager asks for mostly is one of the best deals you can get from this specific dealer already. Take it or not. Simple. This is the real no-haggling process.
The no-haggling price given out by sales is a totally different story. One more sales, one more person to share the commission, haggling or no haggling . Even worse, it is very tough to fight with a soft speaking, smiling face, right?
My trick is simple... you can play as many games as you like to with those first line sales but never buy a car before you make a deal with the real manager or the boss. Make your offering price low yet decent so the sales will send you to the boss sooner or later.
-bear
Anyways, I really like the Java Black - has some really cool orange metal flake in the paint and it really shimmers in my garage lights. The seats are really stiff and the lumbar thingy is a nice feature. The steering is very responsive, no drift or softness. The exterior re-design is not so different for me from the 2002, but some small touches make it more tough looking. I am really disappointed about the "brush guard", which is just a small add on to the front bumper width, not at all like the 2002 version, which had a second level above the bumper out in front of the grill. I wonder if the 2002 brush guard would fit the 2003 (subie guys are you listening?)?
Anyways, I am very happy for the opportunity to be one of the early adopters in this area (Upstate NY) of the 2003, and also really glad to have paid dealer invoice for it too, not a penny more. Looking at the sticker of MSRP $27,796 versus my pre-tax cost of $25,023, I still have some bread left over to add on some more bells and whistles. For those readers trying to decipher the sticker price, here goes:
Model XS Premium w/ leather
Tail pipe cover, arm rest extension (really kind of dorkey, but gotta put my arm somewhere), Splash guards, Security system, rear spoiler (for my wife who really wanted a lexus), brush guard (which previously mentioned as something I could have lived without), air filter, trailer hitch (for carrying 4 bikes), and the rear diff protector (for when I hit my mid-life crisis and pretend that I am the crocodile hunter!).
I am going to log my mileage for the next few tank fulls and will let this group know how I make out.
Off to subie dream land.....
-bear
Bingo! Three '03s hidden off in a corner, awaiting cleaning up. There was an X, an XS, and an XS Premium: green, gold, and Black Java Pearl, respectively. The '03s are much prettier in person. And that Java Pearl is wild! If it was not named "black" I don't know I would call it black -- so many colored sparklies. My wife said it looked more like a very dark green. As has been reported earlier, the interiors are more plush. My wife had the impression that the '03s looked bigger (though we know it is not) and just fancier in general. They do look nice, really nice. I liked the vinyl/cloth treatment on the seats. The steering wheel looked cool. No tailgate/bumper protectors on any of them -- strange. Maybe that's something the dealer will offer to stick on, or will stick on for a dealer add-on. The X did not have mud-guards. Since there were only three, I'm thinking they are show pieces to work off of ordering. The El Paso dealer had a lot full of Outbacks, a few '02 Foresters, one Outback Sport and no Imprezas, except for a few WRX's and a RS sporty sedan. No IMpreza brochures either.
If El Paso has its '03s, everybody must have theirs by now. A salesman was floating around the lot at this time but he did not seem to want to talk about the '03s. He said they'd just come in and needed prep. He had offered to let us play with a WRX earlier -- he knew we were waiting on a car in service. Maybe he was discouraged by the time we found the '03s, or maybe he had orders not to talk yet. No brochures.