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Interesting question and link. I guess part of it has to do with the fact that the ML uses the ABS system to slow wheelspin. It makes sense that you wouldn't want two sets of wheels to have to constantly be braked.
As for Subarus, I'm going to take a swag and guess that chains on the front are for two reasons:
1) You steer with the front tires
2) The 4EAT AWD system is normally designed for 90
:10 with a max split of 50:50. Hence, it would make sense you want maximum traction where you cand have more torque. Note, however, that with 5MT, you can theoretically have 100:0 or 0:100.
Given the two, it might just be easier for them to recommend chains on the fronts only. It would work for all Subes.
Ken
I also find the chains-on-the-front only strange. Coming down a steep hill, using a low gear to maintain speed (and not go too fast), you unload the rears and they could easily come around. I imagine if you needed chains it would be to climb/descend hills, so this surprises me.
Though I've never used chains, so I'm hardly the expert on the subject.
-juice
/direct/view/.eea61db
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
I chose Cooper XGTs over Bridgestones etc. because they cost much less and our local tire/suspension place (Sam's Tire in Saratoga Springs) know their stuff and are supportive & trustworthy {Plug}. The only place the Coopers are not top notch is acceleration in snow - less of a factor with the Forester's AWD.
I agree with the alignment experiences posted earlier. Sam's checked the alignment at around 49K before mounting the snows and found it was way off on all 4 corners; the Geolandars had been getting cupped and very noisy. At this point I don't know if the Forester was just poorly aligned at the factory or whether it just doesn't hold alignment very long (I was spoiled by my old Toyota Tercel 4WD wagon which stayed aligned for 80K at clip). Small price to pay for the driving pleasure and security my Forester brings.
Roof bars: I take 'em off unless needed. The car is quieter at speed and looks just fine.
John
ron3805: Hey, I like your car! The image wasn't too important to me; the practicality of the car was by far the biggest deciding factor. As for the CE light, I'm worried about seeing that thing often because we're not allowed to fill up our own gas tanks in NJ (and what I stupid law I think that is). I agree with the seats, and the seating position is great! I can get the seat comfortable and far enough away from the wheel yet still reach the pedals (I'm barely 5'6") and get a GREAT road view. On level ground, when do you shift? This is my first manual car, and I'd like to hear from other 5MT Forester owners if they shift at a high RPM for acceleration, or shift at a low RPM for economy. I've been shifting at 2800-3000RPM and currently getting a 25 mpg mixed city/highway, but what seems like relatively weak acceleration (I'm getting passed all the time).
With the somewhat decent amount of snow we're (finally) getting, I took my Forester to an empty parking lot to see if I could feel any difference between driving a 2wd car vs an AWD one. This is what I experienced: I try to make a swift turn (like turning on a 90 degree neighborhood intersection) travelling in 6 inches of snow at 20 miles an hour (2nd gear on 5MT). I feel the rear slip out a little, then about a quarter second later, I feel a "kick" and the car is going the direction I want it to be. In the rwd Aerostar I used to drive or my sis's fwd Corolla, there seemed more fishtailing/understeering. The Forester seemed much more predictable. I'm assuming that's the AWD literally "kicking" in? Anyone else, other experiences on slick conditions?
--Mac
Just FYI, most of my driving so far has been done either on highways or gravel roads. I'm headed up to Napa and Sonoma tomorrow, and anticipate driving down at least a few heavily rutted dirt roads...
thanks in advance for sharing your experience,
Karin in California, with her 2.5 week-old Forester
Just purchased a 2001 S Premium, color Silverthorne. Traded in our 1996 Ford Explorer XLT. This is our first Subaru so any helpful advice would be appreciated. If you live in East Tennessee, South West Virginia or Western North Carolina may we suggest Sherwood Chevrolet-Subaru-VW. Tennessee's largest volume Subaru dealer. They have a great selection and our sales person, Don Kolarick went out of his way to ensure our buying experience was enjoyable. Sherwood is a one of a kind dealership that approaches selling a vehicle the 'no pressure' way and offers you unbeatable prices. You can reach Don at 423-282-2121, or 1-800-284-1161. We look forward to many years of joy with our new Subaru.
Ross
Mac: your shift points are fine for economy. That's right about where the manual recommends.
However, for acceleration, you want to get to the peak torque, which occurs at 4000rpm. So shifting at 4500rpm or higher will yield quicker passing/merging.
James: prices vary by region. Try to find a dealer near you that posts prices up front, and go there if they are close to invoice. If you prefer a specific dealer, ask them to match that ad price.
-juice
Now, what do I think is fair? I always feel that the dealer is entitled to his holdback. They have to wait for it but it is good money. Just your knowledge of its existance is usually good for pruning the cost as close to true invoice as possible.
My experience is that invoice is a good deal for an "L", and about $300 to $400 over invoice for a "Premium". An "S" would seem to fit into the $100 to $200 over range. If they have high floor-planning costs, usually because their vehicles have been there a while, the dealer may hold to prices $100 or so higher. A "fresh" vehicle should stand them less money, epecially if is soon to be delivered, or ordered.
True invoice is the cost of the car to the dealer, plus the freight, cost of the gas that they get it with, advertising (regional portion of the shared cost for things like "brought to you by your New England Ford dealer", and usually follow-up fees. This pays for the surveys and other stuff that gets mailed to you.
Watch for the "hidden freight" trick where some invoices have it included in the base cost to the dealer, and then add it again at the end for higher profit. I personally have seen this on a Premium.
Good luck!
Frank
Most dealers will gladly show you the invoice because customers always think that there is more profit than there is, however, some are "home brewed" on their own computer. This is how the "hidden freight" trick is done.
The invoice includes all the things I listed in the last note besides what you have mentioned. You HAVE to pay the extras like advertising and follow-up and gas, because the dealer has to pay it. As I remember this is a bit less than $200 extra, total, but varies regionally. This is why all the sites that let you price a vehicle always have disclaimers. Also don't be surprised if the prices on the invoice are slightly different from what you get from Edmonds, MSN, or any of the other places. This is especially true here in N.E., again because of the middle-man.
Just be aware of any large differences and don't forget that the "extras" I mentioned are legit.
Frank
I still drove very conservatively (10-15 mph) on those long, pot-holed driveways into little wineries tucked away into the hills, but it was sooooo nice to be able to drive without bottoming out on every bump like my faithful but low-slung little Civic used to do!
cheers,
Karin in California
I agree with you on the stupidity of not being allowed to fill your own gas tank..when I am in Oregon which has the same law, I watch like a vulture to make sure the cap is fastened to the first click.
I am your height and this is the best car I have ever had for 360 degree visibilty.
I have gradually been getting better mileage (now over 2000 miles). The last fill up came in at over 27 based on combined city/highway driving. But we aren't cursed with either "reformulated/clean air gasoline" or cold weather, both of which are hell on mileage.
--Ron
Karin: glad you're enjoying the ride. Speed bumps are a little easier too!
Good point on the 360 degree view, Ron. If you're mileage is 27 now, you ought to break 30 on trips once it's thoroughly broken in. Sweet.
-juice
When I bought my Forester, I went with the cassette/radio sound system only as I thought the CD player offered was too little bang for too much buck. I thought I would take my chances in the after market. Has anyone upgraded the basic sound system? Good- bad results? Thanks.
Dan
WRXGirl, on i club (Pam from iSR Subaru, a dealer in Cali) sweare it's on the way. Another few people chimed in to agree, with different sources.
Sounds good to me! Anyone else heard much?
Given the increased competition, more power would make sense. Ford and Mazda, and soon Jeep and Nissan, all break the 200hp barrier. Why not?
And the Forester would the lightest, and very likely quickest, of the bunch. Plus, the WRX is rated at 20/27mpg, so even mileage would be the best of the bunch.
Sign me up!
-juice
When I bought my Forester, I went with the cassette/radio sound system only as I thought the CD player offered was too little bang for too much buck. I thought I would take my chances in the after market. Has anyone upgraded the basic sound system? Good- bad results? Thanks.
Dan
-juice
I got a tad lower (25.5mpg) while I was there. That's also great considering it was about 25 degrees outside most of the time, I was driving on mountain roads at 6000 ft and I was relying on engine braking quite a bit for the snow.
Ken
Juice: I too heard about the Forester Turbo from my dealer (out-of-the blue, during a visit when I was talking about the Forester's performance with my Salesman). He said that a turbo is being added to the 2.5, producting 285 - 290 hp, lowered suspension, and beefed up tranny and drivetrain. I did'nt think much of it then, but he did say his source of info was SOA.
-Tony
Mike
Proctologist? Hmmm... Have to give that one some thought.
Bob
Sorry everyone, I just couldn't resist.
Ron
Bob
Probe? You guys are cracking me up today!
Congrats to Paul and Leslie. Did you spring for the premium package? What options did you get?
Alex: I think you'll be fine at a construction site. Just tread lightly (for several reasons). If I was able to drive through soft sand, you ought to be able to get through a bit of mud.
-juice
Second issue: I have a '98 L with 55,000 miles. The vehicle doesn't feel as tight as I think it should (based on the descriptions from those owners in this forum). Can anyone with a higher mileage subie tell me if they've had to replace their struts by now? If so, how much did it run you?
I bought the car used for my wife about 6 months ago, so I have no idea if it was mistreated or not. Its a very clean car, so I'm guessing not. It seems like it is much more "rattly" now than when I test drove it at the dealer.
thanks for any help.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
To anyone out there who is debating about whether or not to get the moonroof, my advice is go for it! We had a beautiful weekend here - close to 80 degrees - and it was fabulous to cruise around with the "top down." I know those of you who live north enjoy driving yours in the snow, but I'll take open-moonroof days in February over snowy days any time ;>)
Usually the dealer can lube the tracks and fix something like that.
Rob: do you have a manual or auto? Could be the clutch wearing. Does it slip? Fried clutches have a real nasty stench.
The undercoating (Subaru new car smell) should have burned off by now, since yours is a '98.
What else? Check the hand brake to make sure it's not sticking. My Escort did that, and that fried the brake pads.
Not sure what else it could be. Just make sure all the fluid levels are full. You may even consider a 30k or 60k service to change all those (trans gear oil or ATF, diffy gear oil, brake fluid, etc).
I'm not sure about the rattles, guess it depends on where they come from. Check the tire pressures to make sure they are not too high - Subaru recommends 29psi but I would not exceed 33psi or so.
Lastly, the tires have a lot to do with ride quality, and that can affect the rattles. If they are old, I'd replace them with a smoother riding tire. If not, at least consider a balance and rotation, plus an alignment.
Just my 2 cents'.
-juice
Rob,
I own a 98 Forester S with 51K miles. My vehicle feels as steady on roads as it did on day 1. I recently had a routine 4-wheel alignment done and the tech told me that my suspension was in good shape.
Have you had a 4-wheel alignment performed recently? I found that my settings were off a bit and the alignment made quite a difference.
As for rattles, they come and go. I have a couple minor ones but most of it seems to be temperature related. The cold weather does increase the tolerances so things may be a little more loose.
Ken
Cin
One thing about rattles - whenever I trace them, it's always something in a storage bin somewhere. Usually a cassette case or something in the glove compartment. The subie is tight.
-juice
Ross
Speaking of golf clubs, you know something really cool? My clubs and cart fit in the Forester, fully assembled. I just toss it in, and roll it off onto the golf course.
-juice
-juice
BTW, if the Forester gets a turbo I'm sure a tame version will appear before any ferocious 280hp model would. Not that there is anything wrong with that much power!
-juice
-juice
I'm actually banging out a deal for new tires and an alignment as we speak. I know there are problems in both areas, so hopefully that is all it is.
I guess I should have been a little more specific when I said "rattly."
I was speaking specifically about the suspension issue. Its that rough ride rattling that I'm talking about. Where you hear the sheet metal shifting and banging about on bad roads.
As far as the smell goes, it is an automatic. Funny you should mention that (and I should have) because the smell reminds me of when I would abuse my old Toyota's clutch.
I've inspected the fluids and they are very clean (i.e. no signs of burning). And I also checked the hoses and belts and they are all firm and fresh. I've also had the wheels off and inspected the brakes. The rear drums came off with ease, so no parking brake issue. All the pads seem to be in good shape (the fact that they squeal is another issue that aggravates me altogether).
Well, hopefully the cause will turn up soon. My wife is strongly against my desire for a WRX due to these little problems with her Forester. She just doesn't "get it."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It seems that you're happy with it. My main concern about an aftermarket was the seal quality and whether it would leak or not. Plus, I've heard rumours that, if your roof isn't originally set up for it (braces or something) than it might tend to "cave the roof in."
So, have you run into ANY problems with it? Who did you have do it? About how much did it run.
As you can see, I blame everything on my wife. She wants a moonroof/sunroof. I could care less, but it is her daily driver, so I gotta listen.
thanks
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S