Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

brooks11

Can't believe you are talking about Big Sur, my hometown, without a town. Grew up here. Yes it is lovely here. If a bit crowded sometimes.

Am glad to hear also that the gas mileage will improve. It hasn't been good with the first tank from the dealership. They filled it. By the way, couldn't find in the manual how many gallons are in the 2003 Forester tank. Just know that getting a second tank at not much over 200 miles seemed to be low gas mileage.

After reading about the tire pressure am going to check that tomorrow.

Am enjoying the car. Had taken a load of stuff into "town" yesterday (27 miles away) and it was easy to load and unload and a delight to drive. Tomorrow the monthly run to Costco etc.

Brooks

kens

Many dealerships often forget to set the correct tire pressures during the delivery process. I believe Foresters are shipped from Japan with the pressures set near the maximum to prevent flat spots from occuring during it's trans-Pacific journey.

You'll need to experiment with various tire pressures to see what's best for you. I find the pressures listed on the doorjamb are optimized for comfort and not necessarily performance. I personally found that 32psi seems to provide a good balance between comfort, handling and gas milage.

Ken

psfod3

My 03x was delivered with 43psi in each tire. After my first two days I realized this and reduced it between 32 and 34psi. I feel that 29/28 is just to low for a tire with a maximum psi listed at44. The pressure on the door is for maximum soft ride at the expense of handling and outer tire wear. Lets not forget the lessons learned from low psi set on the Ford Explorer tires.

fooey

Just picked up my new silver X on Saturday.. I'm one "happy chappy"..

I was quite impressed with the dealership. I picked it up from the new Docklands dealer here in Australia. Huge service centre.. playstation room and cinema for you to entertain yourself while your car is being serviced. A courtesy bus that will drop you off and pick you up from any point in the city at any time you want... now that's service!

Now I know what my money is going towards!

http://www.melbourne.subaru.com.au/Main.asp?URL=%2FAboutInteractive%2FAID010%2Easp

p0926

Brooks- IIRC the Forester's tank holds 15.2 gallons. And yes, "not much over 200 miles" was very low gas mileage if it was truly a full tank.

Shawn- Cool dealership! I'm envious. Having an AWD course and a defensive driving course is a smart way to highlight the Subaru advantage to potential buyers. Too bad that idea hasn't caught on in the States but it would be expensive to build. Is commercial real estate cheaper down under? Or maybe it's the liability issue caused by sue-happy Americans that prevent US dealerships from having similar setups.

-Frank P.

ateixeira

30 psi is fine. Actually, 28-35 would work, just keep all 4 fairly consistent. 40psi is a high and the ride will be stiff, plus you'll wear the center of your tread out first.

Explorers that had problems probably had 26psi or less. That was the recommended pressure. Actually Firestone and Ford had agreed on 30psi, but Ford changed it to lower the center of gravity. Then consider that tires lose air gradually, they probably had less than 26psi on an S-rated tire.

All Forester tires are now H-rated, so they'll resist heat much better than any Explorer tire. Still, keep the pressures at the recommended levels, you don't want to take any chances.

The tank is 15.9 gallons, though I wish it were bigger. My wife's Legacy holds an extra gallon, and she has more useful range.

Congrats, Fooey. What model, engine? Do you have the low range? Australian models differ from ours.

Land Rover has dealerships like that, but they're selling $30-70k SUVs.

-juice

bsvoller

According to Tirerack and other industry sources, tire load ratings for SL tires (standard load) are computed for 35 psi cold. The max tire pressure is a separate matter, although the tire stamp on the sidewall implies otherwise (xyz lbs @ abc psi).

SL tires with a max pressure above 35 have been constructed to handle higher pressure in order to give the owner some leeway in setting pressures for performance purposes. They probably are able to handle higher loads at the higher pressures, but they're not rated that way, nor certified for higher loads at higher pressures.

Given that the vehicle is spec'd for a certain tire load rating, which is defined for 35 psi, the relation between the recommended pressure and the maximum pressure is moot from a load rating point of view.

Although psfod3 may not have meant to "throw Subaru and Ford into the same pot" so to speak, I believe that we should distinguish clearly between the two companies and their management philosophies. Ford has done a wonderful job of obfuscating the issues with that vehicle, spending millions on settlements under gag retraints - and millions more on PR. Yes, the tires were defective. So is the suspension design. And both Ford and Firestone knew about their respective problem for a very long time before taking action to correct it.

People have died unnecessarily in the name of protecting profits and careers. The sad thing is, we've seen this before from Ford (remember the Pinto ?)

I have this from a good friend who's in a position to know details that don't see the public light due to those gag orders. He's been an expert witness in a number of trials.

We have no reason to believe that the Subaru's suspension design is questionable. Quite the contrary. And the pressure recommendations are in line with the known loads - the recommended tires are capable of supporting ~3000 lbs per axle at 35psi. In the case of the Forester, that's roughly equivalent to the entire curb weight of the vehicle, and more than adequate to handle GVAW limits.

kens

One last note on tire pressures is that you need to adjust them according to your load. The range of pressures for the rear tires varies quite a bit depending on the amount you're carrying.

Ken

ateixeira

IIRC, it was 29/26 with no load, 29/29 with a load. Still, I think those numbers are low. The 70 series rubber on the L model, especially, feel sort of "bouncy" at that psi.

But I'm glad Subaru dumped the 15s and went with 16s standard. I made that change and it is 100% better in every way.

-juice

kens

Was it only 29 with load? I thought it was higher. Maybe it's different on the S because of the 16" wheels. I'll have to look at my long ignored door jamb sticker.

In any event, it's probably safer to err on the high side with tire pressure within a reasonable range. Many of the tire failure problems we've seen stem from underinflation.

Ken

bsvoller

in the rear when towing. Interesting, given the whole SL load rating definition thing.

-brianV

bj02176

2003 blue x, no paint missing anywhere. Perused on this brilliant and clear fall day in New England.

fooey

Frank - I read that Subaru spent 9.7 million (AUS) purchasing the property.. I have no idea how that compares to land prices in the US. I'm guessing that it may have been some sort of flagship experiment by Subaru Japan. It isn't all roses though. When they built this new place, all the current dealers in the city lost their franchises. So while there are quite a few dealers in the city, they aren't independant. That made trying to bargain on the price a somewhat fruitless exercise..

Juice- It's the 2.5X. We finally got the 2.5.. hooray! Although the US version apparantly makes 165hp (123kw) where the Aus version only makes 150hp (112kw)
And yup, it's got low range..
The Aus version is jacked up 0.4" higher. Road clearance being rated at 200mm(~7.9 inches)
There are probably other very minor differences (excluding the left hand vs right hand drive.. ;-).

Shawn

rochcom

Subaru's recommend pressure in my '98 manual is 29 front and 26 rear for light load, 36 rear for full load. I agree that 33 pounds all around is a pretty good compromise, but the rear pressure should be increased to that recommended for a very heavy load for better handling. I used to pick up a 700 pound load in the rear of my Forester on a regular basis, and 33/36 worked well.

p0926

Shawn- So the land cost about $5.5 million US. That's a sizeable chunk of change. Sorry to hear about the lack of competition. There's nothing like a competitive marketplace to keep prices reasonable.

-Frank P.

ateixeira

That's a nice blue color. Maybe a little hard to keep looking clean, though, since it's dark.

Your 2.5l gets a low range? No fair! Man, that would be sweet!

Brian also has an S, like Ken. That explains the difference. Jeff and I have L models with 15" OE wheels.

I think there are 10 Subaru dealers in the greater Washington area. That's why Fitzgerald is so competitive.

-juice

kens

The low range would be nice. I recall CAR in the UK reviewed a 2.0 Forester with the low range. They found the driving experience through the twisties to be much enhanced when they dropped the tranny into "low".

36psi - that's right. I recall I once set my tire pressure to the recommended 29/26 and really hated what it did to the handling. I drove through a covered parking lot (the kind with concrete floors) and my tires were squealing like mad!

Ken

ateixeira

Thing is, you'd better air down once you remove the load. You don't want to have different circumferences affecting the AWD.

That's why I just set it to 32psi all around and don't worry about it.

-juice

shelleysaw

I have 45K on my SUV and just found out thru an oil change today (although I had noticed the oil light blink a couple of times in the last week) that I have a leak somewhere. The mechanic put a die in to see where it might be; since I might be out of town next week for the holidays, I'm going to bring extra oil with me. I was 300 miles short of the 3,000 mile timeframe to get the oil changed and it was DRY gulch this morning. Can anyone tell me about problems regarding this? and what options do I have? and what could cause this?
thanks! ... shelley

ateixeira

Bummer. You probably have bad front main seals. It usually doesn't happen until 90k or so, and you can usually change them when you do the timing belt at 90k.

Or it could be the head gaskets.

Tell your mechanic to look for those 2 things. You are still under the powertrain warranty so it might be covered.

Call 800-SUBARU3 if the dealer doesn't seem cooperative. Let the dealer know you are a regular on Edmunds.com and a group on the internet is following your case with interest. Be polite and friendly, though, not adversarial.

Hopefully this'll be resolved quickly.

-juice

kajko

howdy,

checked the paint all around on another sunny day in NM and no missed spots anywhere... i do need to wax it this weekend, though first i am going under to get the hitch installed.

Fooey, want to trade, mate? i would love to get the LO gearing, especially for some of the nasty roads here, i hate to spin tires on dirt or ride the clutch. i wonder whether it is possible to get the part from AU or Japan and have it installed in a US Forester for a total <$1500 ??

on a different, albeit, dirt-road note: has anyone here used StonGard for their headlights/foglights? seems like a good idea for gravel roads (over the years i replaced at least 8 headlights on my Toyota, fortunately the $9 type). if you were to break the plastic coverings, are they expensive? thanx

lark6

I bought the pre-cut kit from Griot's Garage for the headlights and foglights about a year and a half ago and installed them myself. I tried to install a strip across the leading edge of the hood but lost patience and balled it up. The StonGard has worked very well so far. I can see a couple of spots where significant-sized stones have hit it with no ill effects.

To install it on the fogs required removal of the plastic shields; I suppose I could make them fit but I didn't want to force the issue and possibly break them. Besides, the fogs are now easier to keep clean.

Hope this helps.

Ed

pnassmac

FYI,

The Index is based on 30,000 surveys of owners of 1998 vehicles. Eight of the 15 top brands ranking above the industry average are Japanese. Lexus owners reported 159 things gone wrong per 100 cars over four to five years; the industry average of 355 problems per 100 cars is more than twice as high, though the industry average dropped by 7 percent from last year.

Lexus 159

Infiniti 194

Acura 228

Honda 251

Toyota 276

Porsche 278

Buick 279

Cadillac 280

Jaguar 280

BMW 281

Lincoln 282

Mercury 287

Subaru 314

Nissan 321

Mazda 337

Ind. Average 355

Did this meet anyone's expectation?

paisan

Since Buick = Chevy = Pontiac = Olds

All their #s should be very close and they aren't.

-mike

kens

...or perhaps it says something about the owners since it's a survey based study.

Ken

qbrozen

also look at Nissan vs. Infiniti. Almost 1 and a half times more problems. I don't buy it.

Of course, I never did put much stock in any of those reports (JD, CR, etc.).

eps105

The problem with the JD Power survey is that it only breaks down reliability by MAKE, not model. GM's big, expensive cars have traditionally had average or above average reliability, while their economy cars have fared much worse. That's why Buick has high ratings, while cousins Chevy and Pontiac fare worse overall.

Similarly, Infinti fares much better than Nissan because Infiniti doesn't have any economy cars or trucks to weigh down the ratings.

Either way, with Infiniti at 194 and Nissan at 321 defects per 100 cars, that means that even with a Nissan, I should expect an average of 3.21 problems with my car over a four year period. 3.14 for Subaru. That sounds almost exactly right to me, as I had a '99 Forester for almost 4 years and had about 3 distinct problems over that time.

You have to take this with a grain of salt. It only reports the reliability of each manufacturer overall, not each individual car. I think Consumer Reports does a much better job in that aspect.

Elliot

pnassmac

FYI,

If I'm correct, statistically an owner will have more problems (listed in %) than a Lexus:

Lexus 159
Infiniti 194 (+ ~22 percent)
Acura 228 (+ ~43 percent)
Honda 251 (+ ~57 percent)
Toyota 276 (+ ~73 percent)
Porsche 278 (+ ~75 percent)
Buick 279 (+ ~75 percent)
Cadillac 280 (+ ~76 percent)
Jaguar 280 (+ ~76 percent)
BMW 281 (+ ~76 percent)
Lincoln 282 (+ ~77 percent)
Mercury 287 (+ ~80 percent)
Subaru 314 (+ ~97 percent)
Nissan 321 (+ ~102 percent)
Mazda 337 (+ ~ 112 percent)

If we can't trust to some degree the finding by JD and CR, then where can we turn? Or are our conceptions of reliability (regardless of make/model) based on something irrational such as our preconceived notions as opposed to empirical evidence?

p0926

"are our conceptions of reliability (regardless of make/model) based on some irrational prejudice (such as politics, history, selective memory) as opposed to empirical evidence."

The short answer is yes, I think they are.

I firmly believe that buyers of American makes have lower expectations of quality control and the converse is true for buyers of Japanese makes. The same holds true to some degree when comparing econoboxes and luxury vehicles. A luxury car buyer will have a much lower tolerance level for poor quality control etc vs a buyer only looking for basic transportation.

-Frank P.

rsholland

I agree. I've long felt that Buick owners have different expectations than BMW owners.

You're not comparing apples-to-apples.

Bob

kajko

hi,

ed, thanks for the description. sounds like a good investment to me, the only thing i worry about is fading with continuous sun...

last night i installed the hood deflector on the new 03 X (no name yet). the deflector is the one with white SUBARU lettering, made in Australia! It is relatively easy to mount, though i had trouble with screwing in the four center screws that replace the tap-in screws. The difference i noted with the earlier posts (and there are many) is that now the edges of the hood deflector are secured over the headlights by a "lip type" metal piece that screws to the hood and to the deflector. I guess that would be the response to the earlier problems with parts of the hood deflector breaking off and flying around.
Aside from aesthetics (looks great! a bit more agressive), i like to be able to look at the hood to judge the end of the car from the inside. in my experience, driving on dirt roads and winter driving in places where there is a lot of sand/gravel, quickly fills the front edge of the hood with minuscule chips, which start rusting if untreated. i hope to prevent that with the hood deflector and add a bit of different look.

cheers.

xccoachlou

There's the old saying, "There are three kinds of lies - Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics."

Ok, if I was doing a reliability survey, not only would I differentiate between the models a particular manufacturer has, but also between the trim levels and the manufacturing plants.

When I had my VW Jetta, my informal surveys seemed to confirm that problem prone Jettas were made in Mexico. I believe Contours were made both in KC and in Mexico. I would just like to know if a particular factory has a better reliability track record.

While I wouldn't expect some problems to be different among the various trims, I would expect there to be a difference, perhaps slight, in the performance of some components between higher end and lower (base) models. Some examples are brakes and air conditioning.

Then there is also the survey sample size. IIRC, CR says they get over 100,000 responses to their survey. If we assume 2.5 cars per survey, that's 250,000 cars. If we further assume that Subaru owners are represented in the same percentage as they are nationally of roughly 1.2% (~200,000/17,000,000) that means approximately 3000 Subaru owners are stating their opinions on reliability.

What that doesn't tell you is how they drove the cars, the type of terrain and weather they encountered, the maintenance performed on the vehicle, etc. etc.,.

Still, they are the only numbers we have. We shouldn't throw them out, just take them with a large grain of salt.

rsunico

Hi All. For the past several weeks I have been traversing Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Macao (my fav) and now Hong Kong. Tomorrow I leave for Indonesia. The Forester turbo here is 177hp unit 2.0 litre. Hmmm... I hope we get a bigger engine if in fact SOA decides to bless us w/a turbo. I will post pricing of the Forester (HK$, S$) when I get home in 2 weeks. Hope everyone has a happy Thanksgiving! I will be eating 'nasi goreng' and practicing my Bahasa Indonesia next week. Not sure if the interent cafes on Bali will have the high speed connections so prevalent here in Hong Kong. Sampai Nanti! (see you later) - RENATO

bsvoller

Another point to ponder is the tendency for people to misinterpret statistics. Most of us get through live using "rules of thumb", which disregard statistical reality. For instance, a black cat crosses your path and then you trip over a tree root, and since both occurences are rare you associate them and conclude that black cats bring bad luck.

A lot of people read these surveys and conclude at some level that "Lexuses never have problems" or that "all GM's are garbage", neither of which holds true, and neither of which are actually claimed by the statistics being quoted.

All you can say is that your odds are better with a Lexus than with a GM product, but your actually "mileage" may (and probably will) "vary".

Bottom line is, you can't conclude anything about a specific case (your vehicle) based on a general rule (statistical probablity of failure in this case). Yet people constantly argue from the general to the specific case, as if that would hold.

rochcom

Although the CR and Power surveys are the only thing we have, their methodology could certainly be improved. One problem with the CU survey is that they ask owners to report problems that they consider to be serious "based upon cost or inconvenience." This is very subjective.

A person earning $100,000 a year may not think that $250 for a brake job is unreasonable. Someone earning $15,000 might. A luxury car owner might not think a problem is an inconvenience if the dealership will drop her off at work and pick her up when the work is done. A person who has to leave the car and take 3 buses to get to work might.

terry4848

I too have a buzz in my dash and it comes and goes-the temperature seems to affect it, anyone have a way too find out where this annoying noise could be coming from?

crashton6

My 2000 Forester exhibits the same behavior. Whenever it's very cold I get a buzzing from the dash. I kept putting my hands on different parts of the dash until I finally found where it was coming from. I found that on my car it was coming from the plastic surround on the middle of the dash by the radio & heater controls. I recently replaced my single cup holder with a double out of a 2001 & when I had the dash apart I made sure the clips that hold that center piece on were nice & tight. I'll have to wait & see if my buzz is gone because it's not cold enough here for a test.

My wifes solution...."Honey turn the radio up"

kens

Sometimes going back and putting a dab of lithium grease on the attachment points will quieten things up a bit.

Ken

paisan

Also don't forget if you bring it in for a minor problem, it's the same as say an engine re-build...

-mike

paisan

It's that time of the year again!!!

Yep we are doing the 48hrs of Tri-state again this year. We will be raising money for the American Cancer Society this time. Dates are set Jan 3-5. It will be a beautiful ride starting in Long Island and heading up to Albany, then backroads through the Adirondacks to Rochester and over to Niagara Falls. Then we'll head down to Pittsburgh and over to Philadelphia!

Anyone who wants to participate or meet up with us can keep track of the events at http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/48hrs-2/ Also anyone who can get their dealership or SOA to donate paraphanalia that would be great too!

-mike

justin

but i wanted to ask a few questions:

i looked at an 03 Forester XS with leather. what can i say? the interior is flawless.

from what i understand, Subaru is considered a pretty durable car. what about reliable?? is the large sunroof in the Forester prone to having issues like leaks? what about the boxer engine? are they put together well? electronic issues? auto tranny issues?

what should one know when thinking about Subaru?

thanks!

stever

One should know Patti, LOL.

(sorry, couldn't resist - one of the best things going about Subarus is the manufacturer support, i.e., Patti and her cohorts, and the other owners).

Steve, Host

justin

i have posted this before, and i come back and it says there are 6 new posts, only i don't see them? TH must be down or something...but just in case, i will ask again:

i looked at an 03 Forester XS with leather. what can i say? the interior is flawless.

from what i understand, Subaru is considered a pretty durable car. what about reliable?? is the large sunroof in the Forester prone to having issues like leaks? what about the boxer engine? are they put together well? electronic issues? auto tranny issues? also, since the doors don't have frames, what about noise/water leaks?

what should one know when thinking about Subaru?

thanks!

stever

Can you scroll up 20 messages and see your other recent post?

Steve, Host

bsvoller

Wow Justin, you're really asking for it, posting a request to a bunch of Subaru nuts to sing the praise of their favorite vehicles!

I research all major purchases to death. My contribution to the OCD-club, I guess. We shopped almost 3 years ago, looking for a vehicle to go camping and skiiing with in Colorado.

I compared mini-SUV's, wagons, mini-vans and mid-size SUV's for the 2000 and 2001 MY. Our criteria were safety, reliability, performance, utility and value for the dollar, in that order. Performance ranked higher than utility because we live at altitude, and we wanted a vehicle that would "go up the hill" as we say in these parts.

The Forester consistently came in at or near the top on all points: best in class crash rating (IIHA offset), 2nd best reliability rating (CR, mini-SUV's - these boards for anecdotal stuff), 2nd best power/weight ratio, 2nd highest towing capacity (we tow a 2000# pop-top camper), best handling (various road tests), great value for the dollar. The competition has gotten stiffer, but the Forester still ranks highest overall for our purposes. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.

2.5 years and 30k miles later, we couldn't be happier. I get 28 mpg in the city and 22 towing, and I don't drive like my grandmother. Try that in an Exploder...

Hope this helps,

-brianV

justin

yes, i can see both of my posts, with only one post between them. but when i log back in, it says there are 6 posts waiting for me since my first one, but i don't see them. so i wonder if i am missing responses to my questions....

hopefully not. thanks!

stever

Oh ok you're seeing everything then, Justin. There's probably something going on with your browser or cookies that's not keeping track of your read messages.

Steve, Host

kens

what about the boxer engine? are they put together well?

The Forester uses the Phase II 2.5L Boxer engine that has been Subaru's workhorse engine for the last 4 years. It's got a nice powerband for an engine of it's size.

electronic issues?

As with many Japanese cars, Subaru has very few electronic issues, if any.

auto tranny issues?

None that I've heard of. The auto tranny, IIRC, is designed to handle much higher power than the 2.5L engine.

also, since the doors don't have frames, what about noise/water leaks?

A common misconception about frameless windows is that they leak or are noiser. Conventional door frames actually don't do any of the sealing (check any vehicle). The seal is formed by the glass and gasket around the window. Subaru isn't the only manufacturer that uses frameless windows.

what should one know when thinking about Subaru?

One big advantage for Subarus, in my opinion, is that the company is able to take designs for their rally cars and put them into production. The chassis and drivetrains are all derived from real-world rally needs.

And as Steve mentioned, the other bonus is all the loyal and helpful owners. :-)

Ken

p0926

Justin- If you don't have time to read thru the previous 8000+ posts you should at least try going back a couple of months. Doing so will give you a much better feel for what the Forester offers. I think you will also discover that 95+% of Foresters owners are satisfied with their vehicle.

-Frank P.

rsholland

Thinking of replacing the Geolanders with Yokohama Avvids. Any thoughts? How do they come compare to the current Geolanders as an all-around tire? In the snow? Off-road? Load-carrying? Etc.?

Any other tire recommendations?

Bob