dmcbud writes, "Had to compromise with my better half by getting AT - but I did treat myself by getting moonroof/leather. Will miss MT (I was able to test drive it and it is exceptional!) but I think I'll be pretty happy with the AT."
Take it from an XT 5-speed owner who also tested the automatic before mine arrived - you're getting a terrific car that in some ways is even better than mine. It will be noticably quieter inside, still very fast, more relaxed (lower revs) at freeway speeds, and did I say still very fast? (-;
juice, i was not referring to you,nor ken or bob or jack, as i can tell from your posts in several boards that you're way too committed to the notion of good automobile ownership experiences for that sort of stunt. I am not adverse to test driving under most circumstances and i certainly advocate test driving ANY car before you make a buying decision. I am set on the XT but need to sort out my own needs and preferences ( code for work out the compromises with my wife)to decide between the AT and the MT. but i dont need to be putting miles on somebody else's car to make that decision. in the meantime, posts from subaru- savvy test drives and the brave adventurers who put their money where their garage is will give me far more information than i could ever get in a five mile test drive. Mark
rslnp1 writes, "Before driving, the first thing that I noticed was that the optional turbo boost gauge is placed on the steering hub and blocks the view of the fuel and temp gauges and the transmission selector indicator. It's a good thing that this gauge is an option because its placement is terrible."
I worried about that too, initially. Bear in mind that the steering column is vertically adjustable, and the boost gauge moves up and down with it (whereas the fuel & temp gauges do not). So, quite likely, you'll be able to lower the column (as I was) getting the wheel nice and low (where I prefer it anyway) and then - take it from me - the boost gauge is completely out of the way of the fuel gauge and only obstructs the very bottom of the temp gauge. That's the COLD end anyway, so it doesn't matter at all. In other words, this is not a problem, and I HIGHLY recommend that people get the boost gauge with their XTs. I have my seat nearly all the way up (for visibility and back-seat room), and the steering wheel about 2/3 of its travel down, and the result with the highly entertaining boost gauge is perfection!
rs continues "The steering feels slightly heavier than the XS..."
Wow. The ultra-light steering on my XT is one of my major quibbles with it. I'd far rather the assist was about half what it currently is.
continuing, "But 0-60 in 5-6 second range is impossible for this automatic."
Not sure where that number came from, but no one anywhere has ever said, or even hinted, that an automatic XT would turn in sub-6-seconds 0-60. Subaru's official claim for the 5-SPEED is 6.1 seconds 0-100 kilometers per hour, which would be about 5.8 or 5.9 0-60mph. No data has yet been released (nor road test results) for the XT automatic, but most of us have already predicted that its 0-60 will likely be in the high sixes or low sevens. My personal prediction is that when a tester from C&D (or a similar 'agressive' tester') preloads the automatic to get the best possible 0-60 time, it will likely be around 6.6-6.8 seconds. That, in my opinion, is SMOKING for a $26-28,000 all-wheel-drive SUV that can still hover around 20mpg
rs continues, "I drive an Infiniti G-35 Auto which does 0-60 in about 6.3 seconds and the XT is significantly slower."
If that surprised you, why? The Infiniti's HP rating is substantially higher than the XT's, AND the Infiniti is NOT an all-wheel-drive SUV. It also carries a far higher price tag. That a humble little Forester automatic SUV can even be mentioned in the same breath with a G-35 is (IMO)a huge compliment to the XT and underscores just how exceptional this vehicle really is.
"...there is no way the auto XT can do 0-60 in under 7 seconds."
Time will tell. You're probably right if the tester is from CU or CG or another average-consumer-type publication. If it's C&D or M/T, I think the XT auto will come in under 7 sec. But if it doesn't, no one at Subaru has claimed otherwise, and it's a great little car even if the best 0-60 it can do is in the low sevens.
"I also noticed about a one-half second turbo lag in stomp the pedal passing from 55-70."
This is actually quite exceptionally responsive, for a turbo."
"...We will get an XT auto in November and I hope by then the prices will be near invoice"
They already are, depending on where you buy. Mine, at exactly $100 over invoice in the first batch to arrive in Portland, was less than $24,000 out the door including two Popular Equip Groups - and that $200 boost gauge I love so much!
"...The cash price at $25250.00 is reasonable but should come down to invoice at the end of the summer."
It's already just about there, if you find the right dealer.
I hope you enjoy yours as much as I'm loving mine.
A David (*) buys a Subaru, no surprise! I think they should have a special "Dave Signature Edition" with your name pre-personalized.
richard: prices have crept up, then! My 5 speed was just $23.9k. Maybe I should have bought it on the spot. <shrug>
Mark: I agree, hearing from an owner give invaluable insight. But still, you gotta test drive them, we all have personal tastes. For instance, Jack finds the steering too light. I found it just fine. My wife found the BMW 3 series too heavy, so she'd probably love it. So, YMMV.
I love the G35, why turn it in at all? Buy it, you seem to like it. The Forester is a very different type of vehicle, it's closer to the FX45 if you think about it (and still quite different from that vehicle).
-juice
* Dave is a very common name in our forums, there are literally dozens
subewannabe wrote, "juice, i was not referring to you,nor ken or bob or jack, as i can tell from your posts in several boards that you're way too committed to the notion of good automobile ownership experiences for that sort of stunt."
Well, I guess it's time to fess up, especially since my test-drive description is here and elsewhere, on the record, for all to see several weeks ago.
I did redline the black automatic XT I tested. It had fewer than 100 miles at the time. I realize that will offend your (completely appropriate) sensibilities, and I fully recognize that this was contrary to all break-in conventions, and borders on abusive. I, after all, am also the one who made my dealer commit in writing that no person would drive my 5-speed XT except as absolutely necessary in the customary process of prepping it for delivery to me. <as a result, it arrived at his lot with 2.2 miles, and I bought it with 2.5> I'm also the one who is so fanatical about break-ins that I'm doubling my break-in period (to 2000 miles) and am gradually ramping my RPMs up from 2500-3000 MAX for the first few weeks, and then adding just a few hundred more each few weeks until I'm done - probably not until late SEPTEMBER.
So why, you ask, did I drive the black automatic as I briefly did?
1. When buying a vehicle sight-unseen, that's so new not one single 3rd-party magazine has reported on it, that no one else even owns yet, I cannot proceed without at least some firsthand experience with which to evaluate it.
2. The dealer gave his permission. I assume he knows what he's doing. I assume this particular vehicle will likely become his demonstrator, perhaps even made available to his salesman-of-the-week to take home, and will eventually be sold as such. That's what dealers often do to accomodate prospective buyers and reward their people.
3. Even if that isn't the case, I (as a new car buyer) would not personally consider paying full-blown "new" pricing for a "new" car that already shows a hundred or more miles on the clock. My immediate assumption would be that this vehicle has been driven by prospective customers or dealer personell, and I would always assume those miles were hard miles. I would pay no more than justified under those assumptions.
I cannot dispute your contention that to drive an essentially-brand-new vehicle as I did for several miles is not conducive to its long, reliable service life. However, under the circumstances I described, I don't know how else a prospect for a completely unknown new model can evaluate its performance.
Did I feel great about driving that nice black XT as I did? No.
Hanging my head in shame, and ready to be horsewhipped and banished, I am...
The only solution to that problem is for a dealer to have a "demo" car available for test drives, at least for hot, new models.
Honda did that - they had a Pilot and an Odyssey at Ourisman Honda that were clearly labeled "Not For Sale". I was curious so I asked, they were actually not even the property of the dealer! Honda was providing test drive samples to each dealer, since wait lists meant there were no cars to test drive!
Clearly this is costly. Subaru has 600+ dealers, so to have an auto and a 5 speed would mean the first 1200 units would be demos.
Don't forget that the regular Forester takes regular gas. Since dealers are notoriously incompetent, don't be surprised if they're putting the cheapest 87 octane fuel in the XT. This would kill the real performance that this car offers.
Like I wrote, setting up test drive policies and enforcing them are ultimately the dealer's responsibility. I've had similar experiences with other testdrives where the salesperson encouraged me to drive harder.
Ballistic- Good way to handle the turbo boost gauge placement. Too bad Subaru couldn't find room for the gauge in the dash. You would love the steering feel of the G-35 which is slightly too heavy for me. The XT is a nice compromise. I was not the least surprised that the XT was not as fast as the G-35 which has awesome power and is a wholly different car (no kayaks on top of that puppy). Juice- I am not turning in the G-35. I love the car with the exception of it's unreadable clock and the lease runs for another 2 and 1/2 years. My wife's Forester's lease expires on 11/03 and the XT will replace that SUV.
Can anyone else verify the Car and Driver article? I'm going to the dealer tommorrow and put down a deposit. I'd hate to find out the whole thing was a hoax after I buy the car!
With all the froth, angst, and suspicion goin' on over the XT, I'm glad to be perfectly happy with my '01 S. Still, I hope all you guys get all you lust after. ;0)
Given your forthright confession and true contriteness, you are forgiven for your sins, my son. For your penance, you are to post a description of your XT driving experiences on a daily basis , or more often as you feel motivated, until you have achieved appropriate break in and driven your own XT to the redline. If you miss a shift and hit redline accidentally while your XT overrevs, all further reporting is absolved, as your own XT has assumed your punishment.
I have also had a salesperson encourage me to take a new car to its limits on a test drive, including a guy who knew almost nothing about the WRX when it was introduced. Many dealers used to be very intentional about demo cars that were designated as such and you werent allowed to take the other cars of that model out, even if you wanted different equipment, until the dealer had an offer on the table and a credit check in hand. That demo car tended to be later driven by the wives of the dealership sales staff until 2-3 years old then sold wholesale to an auction ...the infamous " only drove by a grandmother to church on sunday" car! Dang...the C&D numbers make me want to hurry up and buy my XT before my State Farm agent gets his copy this weekend! Mark
corkfish writes, "Can anyone else verify the Car and Driver article? I'm going to the dealer tommorrow and put down a deposit. I'd hate to find out the whole thing was a hoax after I buy the car!"
Holy cow, guys, WHOA. I got this started, I've gotta put it to rest. I'm 100% positive Brian was on the level. I only said "what if..." he or somebody else had seized the golden opportunity to pull one over on us wacked-out, XT-addled patsies and pitched us a spitball. I'm telling you, it would've worked to perfection!
This is just the way my twisted, diseased mind works. Brian's a fine, healthy, wholesome fellow - nothing like me at all!
Once, a very long time, on a local precursor to usenet news, I fooled someone into believing that a broadcasting company was colorizing Young Frankenstein.
When he wrote back a long, scathing, virulent post about the evils of colorization, I knew I had him. So, I added in reply, "Well, I didn't want to tell you, but, they are also adding sound and colorizing the old silent movies to make them more meaningful and relevant for today's audiences." That brought about another long winded reply.
End result - when he found out it was an April Fool's joke he didn't talk to me for a month.
Forester Tie In - You need an XT to outrun the folks you tee off. :)_
rslnp1 writes, "Ballistic- Good way to handle the turbo boost gauge placement."
I've already confessed my other blooper; do I have to admit here and now that it took me a whole day to figure that out?"
"Too bad Subaru couldn't find room for the gauge in the dash."
Your wish is granted. There is a "Performance Gauge Pack" that you or your dealer can install where the dashtop cubby sits. Its three gauges include not only the boost gauge, but also voltmeter and oil temp. I chose the column-mounted boost gauge because (1) it costs $200 (port-installed, probably more if by the dealer, less if you do it yourself) compared to well over $500 for the Pack, (2) the column-mount gauge is closer to my straight-ahead line of sight, and I can check it in a glance along with the main instruments, versus a sideways glance off to the right, (3) I retain the nifty dashtop cubby intact, which is useful in itself, and might provide the perfect place with lid up) to tuck a portable (thus transferrable from car to car) GPS unit, up high and nicely in view of driver or copilot. Oh - and the $200 installed cost of the column boost gauge was just slightly less than what I saved by deleting the pointless, expensive rear spoiler. For the costlier Performance Gauge Pack, I'd have had to give up ice cream for a whole month.
"I was not the least surprised that the XT was not as fast as the G-35 which has awesome power and is a wholly different car (no kayaks on top of that puppy)."
OK, then. For a moment there, it sounded like you were downing the poor, inexpensive little XT - SUV!!! - just because it might not keep up with one of the hottest mid-priced performance sedans going!
"My wife's Forester's lease expires on 11/03 and the XT will replace that SUV."
This guy is getting an XT - FOR HIS WIFE? Knock me over with a feather; I've just witnessed matchless true love.
subewannabe graciously lets me off the hook with, "you are to post a description of your XT driving experiences on a daily basis"
I can see it now. Today, guys, I actually hit 3,150 RPM.
Hey guys, today I hit 3300! This is really fun!
Holy cow, guys, I hit 3500 today, and the scenery became a blur!
Jeez Louise, this thing really hauls @$$ when you get to 3900!!
Oh, and by the way, <each day> the steering is still WAY too light, and the clutch still has to come too far up before it engages, and the backseat is still REALLY cramped, and the gas mileage sux, and I hate the cost of premium 91-octane, and the 4.41 axles are really only good for humbling/obliterating/demolishing/exterminating slammed punks at stoplight grand prx's,..."
"subewannabe graciously lets me off the hook with, "you are to post a description of your XT driving experiences on a daily basis" I can see it now. Today, guys, I actually hit 3,150 RPM. Hey guys, today I hit 3300! This is really fun! Holy cow, guys, I hit 3500 today, and the scenery became a blur! Jeez Louise, this thing really hauls @$$ when you get to 3900!!"
Oh, and by the way, <each day> the steering is still WAY too light, and the clutch still has to come too far up before it engages, and the backseat is still REALLY cramped, and the gas mileage sux, and I hate the cost of premium 91-octane, and the 4.41 axles are really only good for humbling/obliterating/demolishing/exterminating slammed punks at stoplight grand prx's,... ...You sure this is what you really want? jack"
Motor Trend has a page on the turbo Baha and Forester. Estimated 0-60 for the Forester is listed at 8.5 seconds. They had the Forester, why didn't they test it instead of printing "8.5(est.)."?
Hi. I'm new to the site. I have a 2001 Forester S, and I'm ready for new tires. What would you recommend, and what tires to avoid? Not using the car off road, and live in the Northeast - rain and snow (especially this year!) a regular event. Thanks!
I also have a 2001 Forester S. I replaced my OEM Yokohama Geolandars at 60K miles with a set of Continental ContiExtremeContacs. I paid $66 per tire from Tire Rack in March '03. Now they are around $79 per tire. So far, they re working extremely well. Great traction in the rain and in the dry. Smooth and quiet ride. I'm very happy so far after 5K miles on them.
Thanks for the replys. My driving is typical city / highway, not off road, 12-13K pr year. Very concerned about snow / wet weather traction, since the one and only accident I ever had occured when my Nissan Sentra hydroplanned on a highway exit - that accident caused me to get my Forester in the first place. As for budget, not really a concern...if the tires increase safety and improve chances of avoiding an accident, they're worth the price.
For winter's sloppy conditions, there are few better than Nokians (made in Finland- they know snow) http://www.nokiantires.com/ Some are all season, winter rated, others are winter only.
I own a 2003 2.5XS Premium with AT and with 4400 miles of mostly suburban driving under the belt, am a little skeptical of the MPG figures that have been posted on this board. The worst tankful of gas gave me 18.3MPG and the best was 20.7. Over 4400 miles of accurate record keeping I only averaged 19.8 MPG.
Things got much better this past week when I took a 1900 mile trip through Northern Wisconsin, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and the iron country of Minnesota. Driving mostly in the 55-65 range on paved two lane roads I averaged 28.5 MPG for the trip. Many of those roads are like roller coasters (a few with 8% grades) and so with the speed control on, the car was constantly shifting gears which was not an unpleasant experience, even when it shifted down to 2nd.
I realize that most of you are car enthusiasts and are excited by the XT, but I found no difficulty in passing other vehicles with my car on the two lane highways, even when I was moving along at 65MPH.
The speed control seems different then similar controls on the previous other makes I have owned. This control keeps the speed level, even when going down hill, yet the car did not seem to shift down. If I turned off the control on a long downward run the car started to speed up, but did not do so with the control on. Can anyone tell me how the car is doing this?
I agree, the regular 2.5l is more than adequate. Even with the auto, I rode in my sister's car last Wednesday night, the tranny shifted quickly and smoothly, and it really stepped off the line nicely.
Funny thing is her b-friend is a big guy, I mean BIG. He is 6'8", the size of an offensive lineman. Seat is all the way back and reclined.
So with the 4 of us (including my wife), I'd guess she had 1000+ lbs in the car, slightly over the payload limit. Yes, I told you he was big.
Anyhow, even with that load, it stepped off the line nicely. It's also very quiet, more so than my '98. She has an X model, automatic.
MT's figure is the for N/A engine, 8.3 seconds to 60, something like that. Not too shabby, but the turbo is in another league entirely.
Every time I went over a bump, I heard it. Sometimes louder, sometimes quieter. A definite rattle.
Coming from the Passenger Side. I started by pulling everything out of the glove box. Still got a rattle. Then, I moved all the CD jewel cases out of the top storage bin, and all the CD's in the player out too.
Still get the rattle. Make sure all the doors are locking correctly. Make sure it is not a loose seat belt dangling.
Get my brother in the car, and he goes nuts too. He's holding the glove box while we go over a bump, and still it makes a noise.
(I'll bet Juice is really stumped )
Finally, he reaches over and says, "It's your EZ Pass suction cup holder" Pulls it off and Voila! no more rattle!
My brother is a GENIUS!
So folks, if you have EZ Pass, beware the suction cup holders for the tags, as it could make a "rattling" sound and drive you nuts.
I could relate to that tale! I had a rattle that was driving me to distraction - until I discovered it was my keychain scraping against the steering column. The rattle is still there but doesn't phase me in the least - it's just not knowing the source that is the real distraction!
Your mileage might have to do with gas or tires, two of the most common causes of poor mpg. make sure your tires are properly inflated, at least to specs on the driver's door. other thing is gas. experiment with different brands and start by resetting the ECU. My wife got one time 19.4 mpg for a tankful and then i reset the ECU and it was back to normal (23+ mpg for city). this was when the local gas stations switched from oxygenated (winter) fuel to summer mix. maybe your Forester's ECU "learned" on winter fuel?? my long term average (@ 14,140miles) is 26.5mpg wish you the best, keep us updated on your progress...
I bet it was engine braking -- the cruise was probably just lifting off the throttle, maybe all the way. That would certainly help maintain speed on all but the steepest grades.
Man, he really couldn't get over the outward appearance. To this, I will again re-register my opinion: A world of difference would be seen if the car was made to "smile" by rotating the grill 180 degrees from what it now is.
taft4, Usually, fuel economy improves as the engine fully breaks in. According to a mechanic I once knew, this can take upto 30,000 miles! But, in many cases fuel economy improves after the first 3,000-5,000 miles.
On an unrelated note, what kind of deals are dealers giving on 2004 Foresters i.e. how much over invoice for which trim levels? Consumer Reports recommended a certain level (X?) as being a particularly good value.
Haven't been here for quite some time. I want to install a hitch on my 02 Forrester S+. My question/request is for the message# that had pictures and instructions for installing hitch.
The nose is the least flattering angle on the new design, we'll see if they face-lift it for MY2005.
Richard: check out fitzmall.com for some prices, they're a no-haggle dealer in MD. 2003s have incentives, when I checked some are up to $1450 under invoice (I think they have a $1250 incentive). The 2004 XT was $400 over invoice, and actually some brand-new XTs were full MSRP! So it varies.
I installed the OE hitch. E-mail me if you'd like photos and you buy the OE hitch to install yourself. It's not hard. 7 bolts, though you do have to remove the vacuum canister and reinstall it. That just involves reconnecting a couple of rubber tubes.
I replaced a set of Touring T/A TR4 (215/60R16) on my Forester S early this year. They had gone 42,000 miles and still had 4/32 of tread on them. The could have gone at least 48,000 by my estimate. They were great in all conditions until more than half worn, but then became very slippery in snow. However, this deterioration of snow performance is true of most tires. Overall, I was very happy with them and felt that they were superior to the OEM Geolandars in all condtions, particularly in snow. My only complaint is that one of the tires was apparently delivered with a pair of pinhole leaks which the dealer (BJ's wholesale) insisted must have happened from a road hazard. Since they were on opposite sides of the tire with one on a sidewall and one in the tread area and since they were noticeable three days after purchase, I think they happened during shipping. They were repaired and did not affect the life of the tire.
I replaced them with Bridgestone Turanzas, the new all weather design that is claimed to retain rain and snow performance as they age. They are much more expensive, but so far, are performing even better. They worked well on snow and even ice, this winter.
Just bought a 2003 XS; wish it were just a little higher. Has anyone put on bigger tires to raise the height? If so what is your advice? Any drawbacks?
You'd probably have to do something with the suspension as well, plus there's the odometer and speedometer to consider. Just how much clearance do you need?
Comments
Take it from an XT 5-speed owner who also tested the automatic before mine arrived - you're getting a terrific car that in some ways is even better than mine. It will be noticably quieter inside, still very fast, more relaxed (lower revs) at freeway speeds, and did I say still very fast? (-;
jack
Mark
I worried about that too, initially. Bear in mind that the steering column is vertically adjustable, and the boost gauge moves up and down with it (whereas the fuel & temp gauges do not). So, quite likely, you'll be able to lower the column (as I was) getting the wheel nice and low (where I prefer it anyway) and then - take it from me - the boost gauge is completely out of the way of the fuel gauge and only obstructs the very bottom of the temp gauge. That's the COLD end anyway, so it doesn't matter at all. In other words, this is not a problem, and I HIGHLY recommend that people get the boost gauge with their XTs. I have my seat nearly all the way up (for visibility and back-seat room), and the steering wheel about 2/3 of its travel down, and the result with the highly entertaining boost gauge is perfection!
rs continues "The steering feels slightly heavier than the XS..."
Wow. The ultra-light steering on my XT is one of my major quibbles with it. I'd far rather the assist was about half what it currently is.
continuing, "But 0-60 in 5-6 second range is impossible for this automatic."
Not sure where that number came from, but no one anywhere has ever said, or even hinted, that an automatic XT would turn in sub-6-seconds 0-60. Subaru's official claim for the 5-SPEED is 6.1 seconds 0-100 kilometers per hour, which would be about 5.8 or 5.9 0-60mph. No data has yet been released (nor road test results) for the XT automatic, but most of us have already predicted that its 0-60 will likely be in the high sixes or low sevens. My personal prediction is that when a tester from C&D (or a similar 'agressive' tester') preloads the automatic to get the best possible 0-60 time, it will likely be around 6.6-6.8 seconds. That, in my opinion, is SMOKING for a $26-28,000 all-wheel-drive SUV that can still hover around 20mpg
rs continues, "I drive an Infiniti G-35 Auto which does 0-60 in about 6.3 seconds and the XT is significantly slower."
If that surprised you, why? The Infiniti's HP rating is substantially higher than the XT's, AND the Infiniti is NOT an all-wheel-drive SUV. It also carries a far higher price tag. That a humble little Forester automatic SUV can even be mentioned in the same breath with a G-35 is (IMO)a huge compliment to the XT and underscores just how exceptional this vehicle really is.
"...there is no way the auto XT can do 0-60 in under 7 seconds."
Time will tell. You're probably right if the tester is from CU or CG or another average-consumer-type publication. If it's C&D or M/T, I think the XT auto will come in under 7 sec. But if it doesn't, no one at Subaru has claimed otherwise, and it's a great little car even if the best 0-60 it can do is in the low sevens.
"I also noticed about a one-half second turbo lag in stomp the pedal passing from 55-70."
This is actually quite exceptionally responsive, for a turbo."
"...We will get an XT auto in November and I hope by then the prices will be near invoice"
They already are, depending on where you buy. Mine, at exactly $100 over invoice in the first batch to arrive in Portland, was less than $24,000 out the door including two Popular Equip Groups - and that $200 boost gauge I love so much!
"...The cash price at $25250.00 is reasonable but should come down to invoice at the end of the summer."
It's already just about there, if you find the right dealer.
I hope you enjoy yours as much as I'm loving mine.
jack
richard: prices have crept up, then! My 5 speed was just $23.9k. Maybe I should have bought it on the spot. <shrug>
Mark: I agree, hearing from an owner give invaluable insight. But still, you gotta test drive them, we all have personal tastes. For instance, Jack finds the steering too light. I found it just fine. My wife found the BMW 3 series too heavy, so she'd probably love it. So, YMMV.
I love the G35, why turn it in at all? Buy it, you seem to like it. The Forester is a very different type of vehicle, it's closer to the FX45 if you think about it (and still quite different from that vehicle).
-juice
* Dave is a very common name in our forums, there are literally dozens
Well, I guess it's time to fess up, especially since my test-drive description is here and elsewhere, on the record, for all to see several weeks ago.
I did redline the black automatic XT I tested. It had fewer than 100 miles at the time. I realize that will offend your (completely appropriate) sensibilities, and I fully recognize that this was contrary to all break-in conventions, and borders on abusive. I, after all, am also the one who made my dealer commit in writing that no person would drive my 5-speed XT except as absolutely necessary in the customary process of prepping it for delivery to me. <as a result, it arrived at his lot with 2.2 miles, and I bought it with 2.5> I'm also the one who is so fanatical about break-ins that I'm doubling my break-in period (to 2000 miles) and am gradually ramping my RPMs up from 2500-3000 MAX for the first few weeks, and then adding just a few hundred more each few weeks until I'm done - probably not until late SEPTEMBER.
So why, you ask, did I drive the black automatic as I briefly did?
1. When buying a vehicle sight-unseen, that's so new not one single 3rd-party magazine has reported on it, that no one else even owns yet, I cannot proceed without at least some firsthand experience with which to evaluate it.
2. The dealer gave his permission. I assume he knows what he's doing. I assume this particular vehicle will likely become his demonstrator, perhaps even made available to his salesman-of-the-week to take home, and will eventually be sold as such. That's what dealers often do to accomodate prospective buyers and reward their people.
3. Even if that isn't the case, I (as a new car buyer) would not personally consider paying full-blown "new" pricing for a "new" car that already shows a hundred or more miles on the clock. My immediate assumption would be that this vehicle has been driven by prospective customers or dealer personell, and I would always assume those miles were hard miles. I would pay no more than justified under those assumptions.
I cannot dispute your contention that to drive an essentially-brand-new vehicle as I did for several miles is not conducive to its long, reliable service life. However, under the circumstances I described, I don't know how else a prospect for a completely unknown new model can evaluate its performance.
Did I feel great about driving that nice black XT as I did? No.
Hanging my head in shame, and ready to be horsewhipped and banished, I am...
jack the redliner
Honda did that - they had a Pilot and an Odyssey at Ourisman Honda that were clearly labeled "Not For Sale". I was curious so I asked, they were actually not even the property of the dealer! Honda was providing test drive samples to each dealer, since wait lists meant there were no cars to test drive!
Clearly this is costly. Subaru has 600+ dealers, so to have an auto and a 5 speed would mean the first 1200 units would be demos.
-juice
Ken
Juice- I am not turning in the G-35. I love the car with the exception of it's unreadable clock and the lease runs for another 2 and 1/2 years. My wife's Forester's lease expires on 11/03 and the XT will replace that SUV.
I'm going to the dealer tommorrow and put down a deposit. I'd hate to find out the whole thing was a hoax after I buy the car!
I have also had a salesperson encourage me to take a new car to its limits on a test drive, including a guy who knew almost nothing about the WRX when it was introduced. Many dealers used to be very intentional about demo cars that were designated as such and you werent allowed to take the other cars of that model out, even if you wanted different equipment, until the dealer had an offer on the table and a credit check in hand.
That demo car tended to be later driven by the wives of the dealership sales staff until 2-3 years old then sold wholesale to an auction ...the infamous " only drove by a grandmother to church on sunday" car!
Dang...the C&D numbers make me want to hurry up and buy my XT before my State Farm agent gets his copy this weekend!
Mark
Holy cow, guys, WHOA. I got this started, I've gotta put it to rest. I'm 100% positive Brian was on the level. I only said "what if..." he or somebody else had seized the golden opportunity to pull one over on us wacked-out, XT-addled patsies and pitched us a spitball. I'm telling you, it would've worked to perfection!
This is just the way my twisted, diseased mind works. Brian's a fine, healthy, wholesome fellow - nothing like me at all!
jack
When he wrote back a long, scathing, virulent post about the evils of colorization, I knew I had him. So, I added in reply, "Well, I didn't want to tell you, but, they are also adding sound and colorizing the old silent movies to make them more meaningful and relevant for today's audiences." That brought about another long winded reply.
End result - when he found out it was an April Fool's joke he didn't talk to me for a month.
Forester Tie In - You need an XT to outrun the folks you tee off. :)_
- Lou
I've already confessed my other blooper; do I have to admit here and now that it took me a whole day to figure that out?"
"Too bad Subaru couldn't find room for the gauge in the dash."
Your wish is granted. There is a "Performance Gauge Pack" that you or your dealer can install where the dashtop cubby sits. Its three gauges include not only the boost gauge, but also voltmeter and oil temp. I chose the column-mounted boost gauge because (1) it costs $200 (port-installed, probably more if by the dealer, less if you do it yourself) compared to well over $500 for the Pack, (2) the column-mount gauge is closer to my straight-ahead line of sight, and I can check it in a glance along with the main instruments, versus a sideways glance off to the right, (3) I retain the nifty dashtop cubby intact, which is useful in itself, and might provide the perfect place with lid up) to tuck a portable (thus transferrable from car to car) GPS unit, up high and nicely in view of driver or copilot. Oh - and the $200 installed cost of the column boost gauge was just slightly less than what I saved by deleting the pointless, expensive rear spoiler. For the costlier Performance Gauge Pack, I'd have had to give up ice cream for a whole month.
"I was not the least surprised that the XT was not as fast as the G-35 which has awesome power and is a wholly different car (no kayaks on top of that puppy)."
OK, then. For a moment there, it sounded like you were downing the poor, inexpensive little XT - SUV!!! - just because it might not keep up with one of the hottest mid-priced performance sedans going!
"My wife's Forester's lease expires on 11/03 and the XT will replace that SUV."
This guy is getting an XT - FOR HIS WIFE? Knock me over with a feather; I've just witnessed matchless true love.
jack
I can see it now. Today, guys, I actually hit 3,150 RPM.
Hey guys, today I hit 3300! This is really fun!
Holy cow, guys, I hit 3500 today, and the scenery became a blur!
Jeez Louise, this thing really hauls @$$ when you get to 3900!!
Oh, and by the way, <each day> the steering is still WAY too light, and the clutch still has to come too far up before it engages, and the backseat is still REALLY cramped, and the gas mileage sux, and I hate the cost of premium 91-octane, and the 4.41 axles are really only good for humbling/obliterating/demolishing/exterminating slammed punks at stoplight grand prx's,..."
...You sure this is what you really want?
jack
I can see it now. Today, guys, I actually hit 3,150 RPM.
Hey guys, today I hit 3300! This is really fun!
Holy cow, guys, I hit 3500 today, and the scenery became a blur!
Jeez Louise, this thing really hauls @$$ when you get to 3900!!"
Oh, and by the way, <each day> the steering is still WAY too light, and the clutch still has to come too far up before it engages, and the backseat is still REALLY cramped, and the gas mileage sux, and I hate the cost of premium 91-octane, and the 4.41 axles are really only good for humbling/obliterating/demolishing/exterminating slammed punks at stoplight grand prx's,...
...You sure this is what you really want?
jack"
I am pretty sure, not.
-Brian
Man, you have no idea how relieved I am to hear that. I was afraid you'd demand pictures of all the cops I outrun.
jack
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/war_worlds.html
If the C&D XT test were a hoax (which it isn't), it would have similar consequences in the Subie War of the Gearheads.
Bob
j/k
Steve, Host
I think Siddhartha drove a Subaru.
I also have a 2001 Forester S. I replaced my OEM Yokohama Geolandars at 60K miles with a set of Continental ContiExtremeContacs. I paid $66 per tire from Tire Rack in March '03. Now they are around $79 per tire. So far, they re working extremely well. Great traction in the rain and in the dry. Smooth and quiet ride. I'm very happy so far after 5K miles on them.
I hope this helps.
What type of driving do you do? Are you willing to give up a little poor weather traction for better dry traction? What's your budget?
Ken
Cheers
Pat
Things got much better this past week when I took a 1900 mile trip through Northern Wisconsin, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and the iron country of Minnesota. Driving mostly in the 55-65 range on paved two lane roads I averaged 28.5 MPG for the trip. Many of those roads are like roller coasters (a few with 8% grades) and so with the speed control on, the car was constantly shifting gears which was not an unpleasant experience, even when it shifted down to 2nd.
I realize that most of you are car enthusiasts and are excited by the XT, but I found no difficulty in passing other vehicles with my car on the two lane highways, even when I was moving along at 65MPH.
The speed control seems different then similar controls on the previous other makes I have owned. This control keeps the speed level, even when going down hill, yet the car did not seem to shift down. If I turned off the control on a long downward run the car started to speed up, but did not do so with the control on. Can anyone tell me how the car is doing this?
Funny thing is her b-friend is a big guy, I mean BIG. He is 6'8", the size of an offensive lineman. Seat is all the way back and reclined.
So with the 4 of us (including my wife), I'd guess she had 1000+ lbs in the car, slightly over the payload limit. Yes, I told you he was big.
Anyhow, even with that load, it stepped off the line nicely. It's also very quiet, more so than my '98. She has an X model, automatic.
MT's figure is the for N/A engine, 8.3 seconds to 60, something like that. Not too shabby, but the turbo is in another league entirely.
-juice
Coming from the Passenger Side. I started by pulling everything out of the glove box. Still got a rattle. Then, I moved all the CD jewel cases out of the top storage bin, and all the CD's in the player out too.
Still get the rattle. Make sure all the doors are locking correctly. Make sure it is not a loose seat belt dangling.
Get my brother in the car, and he goes nuts too. He's holding the glove box while we go over a bump, and still it makes a noise.
(I'll bet Juice is really stumped
Finally, he reaches over and says, "It's your EZ Pass suction cup holder" Pulls it off and Voila! no more rattle!
My brother is a GENIUS!
So folks, if you have EZ Pass, beware the suction cup holders for the tags, as it could make a "rattling" sound and drive you nuts.
I could relate to that tale! I had a rattle that was driving me to distraction - until I discovered it was my keychain scraping against the steering column. The rattle is still there but doesn't phase me in the least - it's just not knowing the source that is the real distraction!
tidester, host
wish you the best, keep us updated on your progress...
Funny how we automatically assume it's the vehicle.
Remember the time wdb had a problem with the throttle? It was a rodent of some sort that got into the throttle mechanism!
So, how do you score that on your CR reliability survey?
-juice
Craig
He averaged 26mpg!
No other measured tests.
-juice
To this, I will again re-register my opinion:
A world of difference would be seen if the car was made to "smile" by rotating the grill 180 degrees from what it now is.
Usually, fuel economy improves as the engine fully breaks
in. According to a mechanic I once knew, this can take upto
30,000 miles! But, in many cases fuel economy improves
after the first 3,000-5,000 miles.
On an unrelated note, what kind of deals are dealers giving
on 2004 Foresters i.e. how much over invoice for which trim
levels? Consumer Reports recommended a certain level (X?) as
being a particularly good value.
Thanks!
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Steve Z.
Richard: check out fitzmall.com for some prices, they're a no-haggle dealer in MD. 2003s have incentives, when I checked some are up to $1450 under invoice (I think they have a $1250 incentive). The 2004 XT was $400 over invoice, and actually some brand-new XTs were full MSRP! So it varies.
I installed the OE hitch. E-mail me if you'd like photos and you buy the OE hitch to install yourself. It's not hard. 7 bolts, though you do have to remove the vacuum canister and reinstall it. That just involves reconnecting a couple of rubber tubes.
-juice
Historically she has been one of the best/lowest priced Subaru dealers around. No haggle pricing ....reputation for good service.
-juice
I replaced them with Bridgestone Turanzas, the new all weather design that is claimed to retain rain and snow performance as they age. They are much more expensive, but so far, are performing even better. They worked well on snow and even ice, this winter.