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Comments
Lee
-juice
1.) We're moving to Chicago from the SF Bay Area at the end of July. Can anyone recommend a good dealer for service in Chicgaoland? We'll be in Hyde Park near the University of Chicago.
2.) We've put 7,300 miles on our 2003 Forester and still only get mileage of 20 max and usually in the range of 16-19. We consistently use 87 octane gas from Shell but haven't gotten the improvement other crew members discuss after 5000 miles. Our driving is mostly in the city. Any other suggestions for improving this? It's really pretty awful and disappointing.
3.) Our Forester is proving very tight in the back seat with the carseat & base in the middle, even though that is the safest position for the baby. Does the Outback provide any more room side to side?
4.) Also, the seat belt clips for the side passengers are inside of the clips for the center seat which makes it hard to fasten the passenger belts around the car seat base. Is this just a design flaw or is there a reason for this?
Thanks for any help.
Don
Yes, the Outback is wider. We have a '98 Forester and an '02 Legacy, the Legacy has a couple of inches extra width. Even the '99 Legacy and Outback were slightly wider.
I think the seat belt clips are there because 90% of commuter cars are occupied by just 1 passenger (the driver). So it's neat and tidy when the back seat is empty, i.e. much of the time.
-juice
I can't comment on your other queries, but I think I get the drift of this one. I also didn't like the illogical arrangement of the inner seatbelt buckles. I tilted the backrest slightly forward to open up a little space, and found that the four inner buckles (the two for the center position, plus one each for the inner buckles of the outer seat positions) have just enough length that if you tug, you can cross them. So now the inner buckle for the left seat is slightly outboard of the center seat's left buckle. Similarly, the inner buckle for the right seat is slightly outboard of the center seat's right buckle. Once moved, mine seem willing to remain in the new crisscrossed positions, especially after I re-latch the seatback. This arrangement is unarguably more convenient and much less confusing to rear-seat passengers, so I have no idea why Foresters aren't already set up this way.
jb
we have the 03 forester xs. we're at about 8k miles now too. our milage was crappy at first too but improved in past 3-4k and recent trip hit around 26-28 mpg. think our avg is around 24 mpg but wife drives car mostly & don't think she calcs the mpg regularly. we also have a babyseat in the rear center. definitely a little cramped back there w/seat installed but again, i don't drive the car much & we rarely haul other people around besides ourselves (up front of course) & the babe in the seat. also agree - the belt female receptors in the rear are reversed when looking at the center female next to the left passenger rear female belt receptor. don't know why. bad engineering. how bout using the LATCH system & avoiding use of the belt all together? the have the tethers both bottom & top. just a thought. guess i'm not adding much but letting you know yr not the only one who has these issues w/the forester. overall still a great car & very pleased. don't know how it compares widthwise to outback/legacy so no comment there. rgds, ken
Sent my dear old Mom there to buy a base Impreza wagon last year, and they treated her like royalty. Really. She was thrilled. They're also the only top ranked dealer listed in the last Drive magazine in Illinois. Excellent reputation for service as well.
It would be a hike for you from Hyde Park, but doable. Chicago is a big place. I'd keep them in mind should any difficult issues come up, anyway.
Hope this helps,
-brianV
-Bob
Thanks.
My educated guess for why they do this is that this is the only way Subaru can trick the EPA into classifying it as a 5 passenger vehicle rather than 4 passengers. If the center buckles were on the inside as they should be, they would only be about 8 inches apart, and I'm guessing that doesn't qualify as passenger space. So Subaru puts them on the wrong side and voila, they're 12 inches apart!
Bottom line is that it is virtually impossible to have a baby seat and two adults in the back of the Forester,although I've done it -- trust me, only do it for short trips, and buckle your seat belts before you close the doors!
Elliot
It's a problem even if there's no thought to putting a passenger (or a child seat) in the center position. When people climb into the back seat of any vehicle and begin to fasten seat belts, the logical thing for someone sitting in an outboard position is to bring the diagonal belt across and look for the most-outboard inner buckle to clip to. With Subaru's oddball arrangement, this never works. That's why I forced the inner buckles on mine to crisscross. Now the inner buckles for the outer seating positions are where people expect to find them.
jb
-juice
-juice
Gene
Has anyone else had problems with their airbag light coming on at random points? We tried to have the dealer who sold us the car fix it twice and finally had to start a case with Subaru USA to get them to really make an effort. They still haven't gotten it right but are trying a bit harder this time around I hope.
To be honest, we're really disappointed with our purchase of a Forester.
No problems whatsoever to report. I switched out the front speakers for Sony X-Plods, and they sound 100% better! The original speakers are cheap garbage - meant to make you want their upgrades!
Now that we're off the dreaded Winter-Formula gasoline, I've averaged 32 to 32.5 miles per gallon for the last 3,500 miles or so. Very delighted with that!
Thinking of installing a K&N Filter in the next few weeks. Anybody have any reports on using the K&N?? If I can believe their ads, the power will improve, and the gas mileage might get better too.
Aside from the Turbo, the only change I see in the 04 models is that the XS loses the cassette. With my long commute, I use it for books-on-tape; so I bought at the right time!
Check out K&N Air Filters, bolt-on power? too.
Steve, Host
Hope this helps.
Gene
Wow! We're going to have to ask you to repeat that trip under controlled conditions: repeat the trip TWICE once with the filter and once without.
Be sure to record your gas usage and miles driven and we'll calculate the mileage. ;-)
tidester, host
Don: stay on the dealer's back, you should not have to pay 3 visits to fix one thing. The air bag light is uncommon, so perhaps they'd never seen it before, but still. 3 strikes would qualify it as a lemon if it's all within one year of purchase.
Martin: you are getting 32+ mpg. I would change absolutely nothing. Keep doing exactly what you are doing, it's obviously working wonders. I would not do any mods at all.
-juice
It'll drop off again this during the cold Maine winter.
Greg
I've always done this to my cars and while I have no emperical date (dyno/etc) to prove it....it has always been a given to me. My 01 Forester has a CAI and a free flowing cat back. I think I get better power/mileage because of it.
With that said .....you pays your money and takes your choice.
Caveat is that you cannot induce more air than the fuel system can accomodate. A lean condition will result......NOT good! For a basic mod on our subes......not a problem.
I suspect gas mileage would be the same.
-juice
-mike
Why would this produce better gas mileage? If you reduce the restrictions (either on the intake side or the exhaust side) so that the engine can ingest more air than before (i.e. you improve its volumetric efficiency), one of three things will happen: (1) The engine management system will provide an exactly corresponding increase in fuel flow, so that you get the increased power you mentioned but WITHOUT any improvement in gas mileage at all, or (2) you reduce your throttle opening slightly, so that you actually get the same total airflow - and power- as before (thus still burn the exact same amount of fuel as before). In neither case is there any reason to think miles-per-gallon will improve. That would require an increase in the energy conversion efficiency of the engine. No air filter will accomplish that on a properly-operating engine.
jb
-juice
One big compaint I have with the summer "emissions" grade fuel here in California is that it drops my mpg down by 10% (it isn't just the ac). While the rest of the US improves in the summer, the oxygenated stuff here dings mpg at the benefit of lower emissions.
John
Enhancing that efficiency with a properly maintained car will then give me more power. With that increase in power/efficiency one could expect that mpg would be enhanced.
But that's the issue - you won't get an increase in airflow without also getting a symmetric increase in fuel flow. Any increase in airflow will be sensed, and will bring about a matching increase in fuel delivery. The engine's control systems will always try to maintain the programmed optimal air-fuel ratio.
jb
-mike
-james
Some, anyway. The rest will be about food and libations. And the WRX.
Link's on the left.
Steve, Host
Plus, I plan to keep the car a good long time. They say these babies will run for 200,000 miles... I'm going for it!
Thank you!
I know you can get the hook over the headrest kind, but haven't looked at what else is out there. I don't like just tossing stuff onto the floor until I make a stop somewhere.
David
(Am I the the only devil's advocate here?)
Gene
-juice
We're talking about well tuned engines with clean filters, plus or minus 3% air flow. 3% more air, 3% more fuel (if the MAP reads it correctly), 3% more power (if you believe K&N's claims).
Any how, the supposedly bad thing about the K&N is that once it's dirty it allows dirty air through, at least per that one study and per claims Amsoil (a competitor) makes. Also, there are far fewer pleats and therefore much less surface area vs. the OE paper filter.
Then K&N claims Amsoil restricts air flow more than the stock filters. Ugh. Who can you believe?
If the K&N really did improve efficiency and power, Subaru would include one with every car they made. CAFE fines are enormous, remember.
I don't get caught up in the debate; I just stick with the stock filter.
-juice
-mike
My sentiments exactly.
-Frank P.
-juice
Ed
Who needs a waste basket? I just throw my old coffee cups and muffin wrappers over my shoulder. I figure that it's going to take a lot of years before I have to clean out the back of our Forester. :-)
I dont have any useful info on this. I'm just in some kind of mood today.
Paul
Mine is a 2003 XS w/Premium package. I've added the hood deflector, rear window deflector, armrest extension, tweeters, flaps, alarm, diffy protector, bumper protector, day night mirror, and cabin air filter. The color combo is Cayenne Red with beige leather interior.
Pro's -
1) decent mileage around town (low 20's)
2) great mileage on trips - hi 20's to 30.
3) really peppy acceleration around town, decent on highway
4) good quality interior, good grade of leather. Not cheap looking or feeling, IMHO.
5) cabin air filtration - keeps the dust down in the cabin, definitely collects lots of stuff I'd rather not collect in my lungs
6) AM/FM/Cassette/CD/Weatherband radio - with the added tweeters its as good as any stock system I've heard in its price range. I think dumping the cassette in the 04's is not a great idea.
7) The seat adjustment works well for me, but I'm only 5'9", my father in-law can fit behind me without being cramped and he's 6'1".
8) The moon roof - enough to justify the added cost of the package all by itself, if you really like an open air experience.
9) The all wheel disk brakes - w/ABS and EBD, I had to make full use of them a couple of times and they are great.
10) The AWD by itself is a really great thing to have if you live in the snow belt.
11) The all weather package - great heated seats, heated mirrors, rear window and front window wiper defroster elements. Great for the colder climates, don't know how I'd feel about it if I lived in Arizona.
12) The wide variety of factory options you can add at initial purchase or later. I know I listed a long list above, but I've found them useful.
Now for the cons' just so people don't think I'm over the top about this car:
Con's
1) If you lose a tire, you may have to buy 4 new ones. Thats per the all tires must be within a quarter inch of circumference rule. In many cases it will negate the value of the full size spare unless you buy the same tires again.
2) Paint quality - my nice red front bumper could stand a coat of paint, it's picked up that many hits from road rash. Shows the hits much worse than any car or color I've owned, and not just on the bumper. A friend of mine at a body shop questions if Subaru is scrimping on the special hardner they're supposed to use on bumper paint.
3) The auto climate control. People seem to love it or hate it, I've just learned to live with it. Not on a par with the auto control in the Sables I've owned.
4) Miscellaneous noises: There are known issues with the auto trans making a whining noise in the 60-70 mph range, sound insulation overall is minimal, not on a par with my wife's Outback at all, but still quieter at 70mph than my last Sable was. It's just that my wife's Outback is very quiet.
Summary - I'd buy it again, I'd option it out the same way, BUT - I'd either use a nose bra or some of that 3m film protector on the entire nose, or I'd switch color's (but I really like the Cayenne Red).
Hope this helps someone somewhere.
Larry
The center dash compartment is a godsend
The door-switched dome light should be located over the front seats.
Center arm rest (with extension) should be extended an additional one or two inches forward
Replace the XS wheels with XT wheels
Should have power seat option on drivers side
More soundproofing for road noise (I'd pay extra for it)
Driving lights should stay on when high beams are on (for side lighting)
Throttle tip-in not linear (Dealer tells me that the control module can be adjusted)
Rear cargo cover locking dogs should be rubber-covered. They scratch the plastic when extending and locking the cover.
Needs another 20-40 HP without going to a turbo or premium gasoline
Altogether, a more livable vehicle than the WRX that preceded it. In fact, as close to an automotive "Swiss Army Knife" as I've been able to get so far.
Thanks for any help. -- mcwheaton
Currently I am trying to find a Legacy or Outback powered drivers seat and failing that, a powered base to put my existing 02 Forester on and hook up.
If anyone knows of one please let me know. It does not have to be in great shape as I probably will get it reappolstered anyway. I just needs to be working.
Gene
At least! And an armrest isn't an armrest unless it has at least some padding on top.
"More soundproofing for road noise (I'd pay extra for it)"
So would I.
"Driving lights should stay on when high beams are on (for side lighting)"
They aren't driving lights; they're foglights. Foglights are *never* intended to be on with high beams, because that would defeat the purpose of having a low, wide, sharply-cutoff beam that doesn't reflect off the fog back into the driver's eyes.
jb