Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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Comments

  • 1972z1972z Member Posts: 3
    Juice, too many times I miss the obvious. Checked the right side inner boot and it has the same light coating of a sticky substance. I'm thinking it was the undercoating overspray.
    Lee
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, that's good news. Make a note to check it again in a month, just to make sure nothing changes.

    -juice
  • ddunbarddunbar Member Posts: 31
    I've been away for awhile and busy with the birth of our son two months ago, but I could use some advice now on a few items.

    1.) We're moving to Chicago from the SF Bay Area at the end of July. Can anyone recommend a good dealer for service in Chicgaoland? We'll be in Hyde Park near the University of Chicago.

    2.) We've put 7,300 miles on our 2003 Forester and still only get mileage of 20 max and usually in the range of 16-19. We consistently use 87 octane gas from Shell but haven't gotten the improvement other crew members discuss after 5000 miles. Our driving is mostly in the city. Any other suggestions for improving this? It's really pretty awful and disappointing.

    3.) Our Forester is proving very tight in the back seat with the carseat & base in the middle, even though that is the safest position for the baby. Does the Outback provide any more room side to side?

    4.) Also, the seat belt clips for the side passengers are inside of the clips for the center seat which makes it hard to fasten the passenger belts around the car seat base. Is this just a design flaw or is there a reason for this?

    Thanks for any help.
    Don
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You might want to reset the ECU, to see if mileage improves. It'll actually drop at first, then improve and the ECU leans out the fuel mix. Seems like you have nothing to lose.

    Yes, the Outback is wider. We have a '98 Forester and an '02 Legacy, the Legacy has a couple of inches extra width. Even the '99 Legacy and Outback were slightly wider.

    I think the seat belt clips are there because 90% of commuter cars are occupied by just 1 passenger (the driver). So it's neat and tidy when the back seat is empty, i.e. much of the time.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Don wrote "Also, the seat belt clips for the side passengers are inside of the clips for the center seat which makes it hard to fasten the passenger belts around the car seat base. Is this just a design flaw or is there a reason for this?"

    I can't comment on your other queries, but I think I get the drift of this one. I also didn't like the illogical arrangement of the inner seatbelt buckles. I tilted the backrest slightly forward to open up a little space, and found that the four inner buckles (the two for the center position, plus one each for the inner buckles of the outer seat positions) have just enough length that if you tug, you can cross them. So now the inner buckle for the left seat is slightly outboard of the center seat's left buckle. Similarly, the inner buckle for the right seat is slightly outboard of the center seat's right buckle. Once moved, mine seem willing to remain in the new crisscrossed positions, especially after I re-latch the seatback. This arrangement is unarguably more convenient and much less confusing to rear-seat passengers, so I have no idea why Foresters aren't already set up this way.

    jb
  • ken_from_njken_from_nj Member Posts: 105
    don,
    we have the 03 forester xs. we're at about 8k miles now too. our milage was crappy at first too but improved in past 3-4k and recent trip hit around 26-28 mpg. think our avg is around 24 mpg but wife drives car mostly & don't think she calcs the mpg regularly. we also have a babyseat in the rear center. definitely a little cramped back there w/seat installed but again, i don't drive the car much & we rarely haul other people around besides ourselves (up front of course) & the babe in the seat. also agree - the belt female receptors in the rear are reversed when looking at the center female next to the left passenger rear female belt receptor. don't know why. bad engineering. how bout using the LATCH system & avoiding use of the belt all together? the have the tethers both bottom & top. just a thought. guess i'm not adding much but letting you know yr not the only one who has these issues w/the forester. overall still a great car & very pleased. don't know how it compares widthwise to outback/legacy so no comment there. rgds, ken
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    I can't really speak from personal experience to all the other dealers in the Chicago area (live in Denver now), but Libertyville up on the far north side is head and shoulders above the rest from what I've gathered from others on this board.

    Sent my dear old Mom there to buy a base Impreza wagon last year, and they treated her like royalty. Really. She was thrilled. They're also the only top ranked dealer listed in the last Drive magazine in Illinois. Excellent reputation for service as well.

    It would be a hike for you from Hyde Park, but doable. Chicago is a big place. I'd keep them in mind should any difficult issues come up, anyway.

    Hope this helps,

    -brianV
  • forestergumpforestergump Member Posts: 119
    I get an average of between 24-25 mpg driving around the Chicago area (mixed highway and city driving). There could be a number of factors affecting your mileage, such as tire inflation, fuel quality, air filter, etc. I live in the north suburbs, and have found Grant Dean Subaru in Highland Park to be good for service. Bought our Forester at Mid-City Subaru on Irving Park Rd. in the city, but never had to get any service done there, as we moved shortly after. But the sales experience was relatively painless. There are a few dealerships mentioned in these forums that you probably want to avoid for service. Just do a search. My suggestion (which I have tried in the past) is take your vehicle to your nearest dealer for a relatively simple service like an oil change, and see how they do. In that business, first impressions can say a lot. Congradulations on your new baby, and welcome to Chicago!
    -Bob
  • dagpotterdagpotter Member Posts: 71
    I am ready to try and buy a Forester again. Couldn't make a deal in May due to my trade, but situation has improved. Any recommendations on dealer? Fitzmall prices are good, but it is a hike. How about Stohlmans? Any opinions?

    Thanks.
  • eps105eps105 Member Posts: 216
    I noticed the same thing with the center seat belt latches being on the outboard of the side seat latches.

    My educated guess for why they do this is that this is the only way Subaru can trick the EPA into classifying it as a 5 passenger vehicle rather than 4 passengers. If the center buckles were on the inside as they should be, they would only be about 8 inches apart, and I'm guessing that doesn't qualify as passenger space. So Subaru puts them on the wrong side and voila, they're 12 inches apart!

    Bottom line is that it is virtually impossible to have a baby seat and two adults in the back of the Forester,although I've done it -- trust me, only do it for short trips, and buckle your seat belts before you close the doors!

    Elliot
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Elliot says, "I noticed the same thing with the center seat belt latches being on the outboard of the side seat latches."

    It's a problem even if there's no thought to putting a passenger (or a child seat) in the center position. When people climb into the back seat of any vehicle and begin to fasten seat belts, the logical thing for someone sitting in an outboard position is to bring the diagonal belt across and look for the most-outboard inner buckle to clip to. With Subaru's oddball arrangement, this never works. That's why I forced the inner buckles on mine to crisscross. Now the inner buckles for the outer seating positions are where people expect to find them.

    jb
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd avoid Farrish Subaru, they didn't honor the original price they quoted me. I bought it there anyway, out of pure frustration since it was the 3rd dealer I had visited.

    -juice
  • dagpotterdagpotter Member Posts: 71
    I tried there but they so lowballed me on my trade it wasn't worth it. The price they quoted in May was OK.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Careful, they tried to add freight twice on my sale. Sheez.

    -juice
  • gened1gened1 Member Posts: 256
    I tried your crisscross rear belt method and it makes sense. I don't have the latch system in my 02 Forester and with a booster seat and a carseat for the grandkids I always wonder if they are as secure as they need to be with the tether and the seatbelt pulled all the way out until it rachets and then fed back until tight. Thanks for the idea.There is very little room for their Mom in back if she decides to go with us. She hopes it would be a short trip too!!
    Gene
  • rsay777rsay777 Member Posts: 100
    in addition to the rattling cruise control unit (cruise still functions) The car now has an annoying squeak in the clutch pedal. It is most apparent at the top of it's travel. it sounds as if it is coming from the assembly inside the cabin rather than under the hood. Is it possible to hit it with some lube to correct this? Thanks, Bob L.
  • ddunbarddunbar Member Posts: 31
    Thanks for advice on Chicago dealers and the commiseration on the seatbelt problems in the '03 Forester back seat. We're tempted to put the car seat on one side rather than the middle and use the latch system to make it a bit less claustrophobic when one of rides in the backseat to take care of our son. Unfortunately, it would not be quite as safe for him and prohibits sliding the front seat back as far as we'd like. We bought the Forester for safety and are finding ourselves very disappointed with this back seat situation and the consistently awful gas mileage.

    Has anyone else had problems with their airbag light coming on at random points? We tried to have the dealer who sold us the car fix it twice and finally had to start a case with Subaru USA to get them to really make an effort. They still haven't gotten it right but are trying a bit harder this time around I hope.

    To be honest, we're really disappointed with our purchase of a Forester.
  • mjsnd80mjsnd80 Member Posts: 48
    I took delivery of my 03 XS 5-speed on Dec 31, 2002. I have an 80-mile round-trip commute each day... so I've racked up a bit over 16,000 miles already.

    No problems whatsoever to report. I switched out the front speakers for Sony X-Plods, and they sound 100% better! The original speakers are cheap garbage - meant to make you want their upgrades!

    Now that we're off the dreaded Winter-Formula gasoline, I've averaged 32 to 32.5 miles per gallon for the last 3,500 miles or so. Very delighted with that!

    Thinking of installing a K&N Filter in the next few weeks. Anybody have any reports on using the K&N?? If I can believe their ads, the power will improve, and the gas mileage might get better too.

    Aside from the Turbo, the only change I see in the 04 models is that the XS loses the cassette. With my long commute, I use it for books-on-tape; so I bought at the right time!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't think they claim any increase in mpg. I think the other claims are "up to."

    Check out K&N Air Filters, bolt-on power? too.

    Steve, Host
  • gened1gened1 Member Posts: 256
    My son bought me a drop-in K&N filter for Fathers Day and I installed it and then took a trip to Maine. I have to say I am sure my mileage improved from the previous trips I have taken.I didn't figure it all out but for mostly highway travel at 75 or so I was getting around 30 mpg. Previously it was around 24-26. It does seem that I have a little better pick up too.My 02 Forester just turned 11,000 miles.
    Hope this helps.
    Gene
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I have to say I am sure my mileage improved from the previous trips I have taken...

    Wow! We're going to have to ask you to repeat that trip under controlled conditions: repeat the trip TWICE once with the filter and once without.

    Be sure to record your gas usage and miles driven and we'll calculate the mileage. ;-)

    tidester, host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - you could try a spray lithium grease. Just line the surrounding carpet with a rag so it doensn't stain them.

    Don: stay on the dealer's back, you should not have to pay 3 visits to fix one thing. The air bag light is uncommon, so perhaps they'd never seen it before, but still. 3 strikes would qualify it as a lemon if it's all within one year of purchase.

    Martin: you are getting 32+ mpg. I would change absolutely nothing. Keep doing exactly what you are doing, it's obviously working wonders. I would not do any mods at all.

    -juice
  • from_awayfrom_away Member Posts: 12
    I've noticed an improvement this year with my 2002 Forester. When purchased April 02 was getting 26-28. Now 14 months and 18,000 miles later am getting 30-32. Maybe that had something to do with needing to have both oxygen sensors replaced with the first 10 months?

    It'll drop off again this during the cold Maine winter.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    in both my OB and Sienna. Can't say I noticed a big change in either gas mileage or power.

    Greg
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    Well in theory ....in a NA engine if you increase the air in and improve the exhaust flow ....you will get more power which should equate to better gas mileage.

     I've always done this to my cars and while I have no emperical date (dyno/etc) to prove it....it has always been a given to me. My 01 Forester has a CAI and a free flowing cat back. I think I get better power/mileage because of it.

      With that said .....you pays your money and takes your choice.

      Caveat is that you cannot induce more air than the fuel system can accomodate. A lean condition will result......NOT good! For a basic mod on our subes......not a problem.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    More air, more fuel. Isn't that how the MAF regulates fuel pressure, by measuring air flow?

    I suspect gas mileage would be the same.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I wouldn't worry too much about fuel flow on the subies. We turboed a 2.5RS w/o upgrading the injectors and it still ran ok, eventually we upgraded the fuel rails and fuel pressure riser and fuel pump.

    -mike
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    "Well in theory ....in a NA engine if you increase the air in and improve the exhaust flow ....you will get more power which should equate to better gas mileage."

    Why would this produce better gas mileage? If you reduce the restrictions (either on the intake side or the exhaust side) so that the engine can ingest more air than before (i.e. you improve its volumetric efficiency), one of three things will happen: (1) The engine management system will provide an exactly corresponding increase in fuel flow, so that you get the increased power you mentioned but WITHOUT any improvement in gas mileage at all, or (2) you reduce your throttle opening slightly, so that you actually get the same total airflow - and power- as before (thus still burn the exact same amount of fuel as before). In neither case is there any reason to think miles-per-gallon will improve. That would require an increase in the energy conversion efficiency of the engine. No air filter will accomplish that on a properly-operating engine.

    jb
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well put, Jack.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    jack, that sounds technically correct. I would add though that better air flow means more oxygen and better combustion for the same amount of fuel. Same holds true for higher octane rating fuel.

    One big compaint I have with the summer "emissions" grade fuel here in California is that it drops my mpg down by 10% (it isn't just the ac). While the rest of the US improves in the summer, the oxygenated stuff here dings mpg at the benefit of lower emissions.

    John
  • lakepoplakepop Member Posts: 221
    I think of the NA engine as an air pump......and if I can maximize the air in......air out equation I will produce more power. The limitation is of course the fuel system as it must be capable of providing enough fuel to meet that increase in air. Our ECU attempts to keep that air/fuel ratio at approx 14.7 to 1. It can in fact do that until you add forced induction.

    Enhancing that efficiency with a properly maintained car will then give me more power. With that increase in power/efficiency one could expect that mpg would be enhanced.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    John says, "better air flow means more oxygen and better combustion for the same amount of fuel."

    But that's the issue - you won't get an increase in airflow without also getting a symmetric increase in fuel flow. Any increase in airflow will be sensed, and will bring about a matching increase in fuel delivery. The engine's control systems will always try to maintain the programmed optimal air-fuel ratio.

    jb
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    MAP and MAF sensors come into play. I think MAF is better for this because it gives a truer reading v. the MAP which is more reliable, but less acurrite.

    -mike
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I thought this board was for discussing Subaru Foresters. :)

    -james
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Come to the chat in ~30 minutes and there'll be lots of Forester talk.

    Some, anyway. The rest will be about food and libations. And the WRX.

    Link's on the left.

    Steve, Host
  • mjsnd80mjsnd80 Member Posts: 48
    Thank you for the K&N information. After reading the posts and the link to specific K&N discussions... I think I'll stick with a good paper filter because I have a long commute here in Maine.

    Plus, I plan to keep the car a good long time. They say these babies will run for 200,000 miles... I'm going for it!

    Thank you!
  • dwest6dwest6 Member Posts: 5
    Just got my XS. Small thing, but what are people doing for a car wastebasket? (It would be nice if car manufacturers built these into the car).

    I know you can get the hook over the headrest kind, but haven't looked at what else is out there. I don't like just tossing stuff onto the floor until I make a stop somewhere.

    David
  • gened1gened1 Member Posts: 256
    I need to restrict the air going into my FORESTER (Oregon boy!!)engine. Thus with more restriction the ECU will lessen my vehicles' fuel consumption and I will get higher miles per gallon. Gee I think I'll try three dirty paper filters squash them up and force them into the filter holder and maybe put a small potato( as in our famous salt potatos) into the snorkus. Then take my trip to Maine again. Man I bet the fuel companies will be on their knees.
     (Am I the the only devil's advocate here?)
    Gene
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, all XS models get the rear LSD as well. But don't fell like you have to spring for that extra $2 grand if your alternative is the Element EX, which doesn't have it either.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, then your engine would bog, and you'd have to use a lower gear to accomplish any given task. That would cost you efficiency.

    We're talking about well tuned engines with clean filters, plus or minus 3% air flow. 3% more air, 3% more fuel (if the MAP reads it correctly), 3% more power (if you believe K&N's claims).

    Any how, the supposedly bad thing about the K&N is that once it's dirty it allows dirty air through, at least per that one study and per claims Amsoil (a competitor) makes. Also, there are far fewer pleats and therefore much less surface area vs. the OE paper filter.

    Then K&N claims Amsoil restricts air flow more than the stock filters. Ugh. Who can you believe?

    If the K&N really did improve efficiency and power, Subaru would include one with every car they made. CAFE fines are enormous, remember.

    I don't get caught up in the debate; I just stick with the stock filter.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    for me since it's more enviromentally suitable for me and also suits my lazy butt when I need to replace the filter @ like 2am cause I'm leaving for a trip. (I can just clean it at that point) as well as the water repelent properties of the K&N.

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    "I don't get caught up in the debate; I just stick with the stock filter."

    My sentiments exactly.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Deep water Xings are a different story! LOL

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I'd been running an Amsoil filter in my '00 for 2 years until last week, when I switched back to OEM paper at the 60K service (56K on odo actually). I'd come to the conclusion that any performance gains from the Amsoil were measurable only in my ears. Still this week it seems like the car has lost a little in the acceleration department but again, that perception may be psychological.

    Ed
  • nypaulnypaul Member Posts: 35
    David,
       Who needs a waste basket? I just throw my old coffee cups and muffin wrappers over my shoulder. I figure that it's going to take a lot of years before I have to clean out the back of our Forester. :-)
       I dont have any useful info on this. I'm just in some kind of mood today.

    Paul
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Some thoughts as I hit the one year and 12k mark of Forester ownership this week. Hopefully will help anyone out there thinking about purchasing a Forester.

    Mine is a 2003 XS w/Premium package. I've added the hood deflector, rear window deflector, armrest extension, tweeters, flaps, alarm, diffy protector, bumper protector, day night mirror, and cabin air filter. The color combo is Cayenne Red with beige leather interior.

    Pro's -
     1) decent mileage around town (low 20's)
     2) great mileage on trips - hi 20's to 30.
     3) really peppy acceleration around town, decent on highway
     4) good quality interior, good grade of leather. Not cheap looking or feeling, IMHO.
     5) cabin air filtration - keeps the dust down in the cabin, definitely collects lots of stuff I'd rather not collect in my lungs
     6) AM/FM/Cassette/CD/Weatherband radio - with the added tweeters its as good as any stock system I've heard in its price range. I think dumping the cassette in the 04's is not a great idea.
     7) The seat adjustment works well for me, but I'm only 5'9", my father in-law can fit behind me without being cramped and he's 6'1".
     8) The moon roof - enough to justify the added cost of the package all by itself, if you really like an open air experience.
     9) The all wheel disk brakes - w/ABS and EBD, I had to make full use of them a couple of times and they are great.
    10) The AWD by itself is a really great thing to have if you live in the snow belt.
    11) The all weather package - great heated seats, heated mirrors, rear window and front window wiper defroster elements. Great for the colder climates, don't know how I'd feel about it if I lived in Arizona.
    12) The wide variety of factory options you can add at initial purchase or later. I know I listed a long list above, but I've found them useful.

    Now for the cons' just so people don't think I'm over the top about this car:

    Con's
    1) If you lose a tire, you may have to buy 4 new ones. Thats per the all tires must be within a quarter inch of circumference rule. In many cases it will negate the value of the full size spare unless you buy the same tires again.
    2) Paint quality - my nice red front bumper could stand a coat of paint, it's picked up that many hits from road rash. Shows the hits much worse than any car or color I've owned, and not just on the bumper. A friend of mine at a body shop questions if Subaru is scrimping on the special hardner they're supposed to use on bumper paint.
    3) The auto climate control. People seem to love it or hate it, I've just learned to live with it. Not on a par with the auto control in the Sables I've owned.
    4) Miscellaneous noises: There are known issues with the auto trans making a whining noise in the 60-70 mph range, sound insulation overall is minimal, not on a par with my wife's Outback at all, but still quieter at 70mph than my last Sable was. It's just that my wife's Outback is very quiet.

    Summary - I'd buy it again, I'd option it out the same way, BUT - I'd either use a nose bra or some of that 3m film protector on the entire nose, or I'd switch color's (but I really like the Cayenne Red).

    Hope this helps someone somewhere.

    Larry
  • chaynes1chaynes1 Member Posts: 27
    Just passed my first anniversary with the 2003 XS (Black Pearl auto) at 18,000 miles. Same comments as his except for these:

    The center dash compartment is a godsend
    The door-switched dome light should be located over the front seats.
    Center arm rest (with extension) should be extended an additional one or two inches forward
    Replace the XS wheels with XT wheels
    Should have power seat option on drivers side
    More soundproofing for road noise (I'd pay extra for it)
    Driving lights should stay on when high beams are on (for side lighting)
    Throttle tip-in not linear (Dealer tells me that the control module can be adjusted)
    Rear cargo cover locking dogs should be rubber-covered. They scratch the plastic when extending and locking the cover.
    Needs another 20-40 HP without going to a turbo or premium gasoline

    Altogether, a more livable vehicle than the WRX that preceded it. In fact, as close to an automotive "Swiss Army Knife" as I've been able to get so far.
  • mcwheatonmcwheaton Member Posts: 1
    Hi. I have a 98 Forester 5-spd manual which has shuddered in low gears since I bought it used from the dealership 2 years ago. When I was test driving it, I thought it was just me and that it would shift smoothly once I got used to it. Now I see it's a common problem, even though the TSB addresses 99-03 Foresters, leaving out the 98 for reasons I can't explain. Since, it's not a recall, I'm wondering about what the prescribed replacement of flywheel, disc and pressure plate ought to cost.
    Thanks for any help. -- mcwheaton
  • gened1gened1 Member Posts: 256
    Ahhh it's good to see I am not the only one who wishes for an electric powered drivers seat.
    Currently I am trying to find a Legacy or Outback powered drivers seat and failing that, a powered base to put my existing 02 Forester on and hook up.
    If anyone knows of one please let me know. It does not have to be in great shape as I probably will get it reappolstered anyway. I just needs to be working.
    Gene
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    "Center arm rest (with extension) should be extended an additional one or two inches forward"

    At least! And an armrest isn't an armrest unless it has at least some padding on top.

    "More soundproofing for road noise (I'd pay extra for it)"

    So would I.
     
    "Driving lights should stay on when high beams are on (for side lighting)"

    They aren't driving lights; they're foglights. Foglights are *never* intended to be on with high beams, because that would defeat the purpose of having a low, wide, sharply-cutoff beam that doesn't reflect off the fog back into the driver's eyes.

    jb
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