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We were pretty surprised by the 40 MPG figure, too. We'd never seen the mileage that high. Generally, our combined mileage (city/hiway) runs in the mid 30's. The only thing we can figure about the 40 MPG is that we had a tail wind. As you know, the long stretches of 80 headed back west from the Sacramento area can be pretty windy. We also drove about 30 miles on very slow roads (Hwy 49, from Grass Valley to I-80), so that probably pushed the mileage considerably. Additionally, where I'll drive pushing 80 MPH, my wife is more of a 65-70 driver (she was driving), so that may have contributed to it as well. We see a significant difference in gas mileage when we change the cruising speed from 80-ish to 70-ish. Since we're not seeing that mileage since that trip, there must've been some external factor. And oh yeah, in answer to your question about where I live, it's actually in Marin County, north of San Francisco.....where herds of Priuses roam, free range....glad we have a NAH!
I've heard that the computer isn't that accurate. That's cool, because I generally look for trends in gas mileage that would indicate better driving habits or some system problem, and don't trust it completely. However, the thing that should be considered is that there is significant chance for human error when filling a tank with gas. One gas pump may let you fill the tank much fuller before clicking off, than another. If the car is actually getting the same gas mileage from tank to tank, and you don't fill the tank to the same level each time, your calculations of mileage, based upon what you pumped v. miles you drove will differ, even though, in reality, your car is getting exactly the same mileage. A difference of a MPG or two is well within the margin of error for filling a gas tank differently. That is something to think about. When car mags and other organizations do mileage tests, they always try to fill the tank the same way each time, and sometimes even use external, carefully-calibrated tanks, when they do the checking.
The car, on the other hand, calculates gas mileage by monitoring the fuel injection system. It knows very precisely how much fuel is being used, since it needs to know that to manage emmissions correctly. In the new closed-loop emission systems, the sniffers in the exhaust system tell the car's computers how to adjust the fuel injection at a very precise level, to assure best performance of the emissions system. Having to do that makes the car pretty precise in its knowledge of fuel usage. If you make the assumption that the odometer is accurate, I'd bet that the car's calculation of gas mileage is probably the accurate number, not the hand-calculated number we humans make...catch my drift?
As far as why your gas mileage is so low, it's hard to say. It is unlikely that there's something wrong with the car, since one of those dozens of little lights on the instrument panel would most likely glare at you if there was. It probably has to do with a few things. Thing 1. Your driving style. If you like to squirt through traffic, and accelerate crisply away from stops, and drive fast, that will definitely lower your gas mileage. From the sounds of the cars you've owned, I'd bet ya coffee that's the way you like to drive. It's fun, but it uses gas. Thing 2. The Toyota-based hybrids like ours get their best mileage in stop-n-go traffic, where they can stay in EV mode. If you're not in knotty traffic, much, you won't get the high numbers.
This was a lesson we had to learn as we got used to our car. We were disappointed at first, too, until we realized that in our area we do very little "city" driving, and as a result don't see the high-end numbers. The other thing is, when I drive the NAH, I get mileage similar to yours, because I like to drive aggressively too. When my wife drives the car, she probably squeaks out an additional 5MPG, because she's a much more gentle driver, and actually enjoys trying to keep the thing in EV mode. As a matter of fact, I hear about it all the time from her, since she checks the mileage computer frequently. I did get even, though.
A few weeks ago, after hearing once again about how low my mileage was, I found a nice long hill. I reset the fuel mileage, and then rolled down that hill, hitting over 50 MPG at one point. I drove like I had egg shells between my foot and the accellerator for the mile or two headed home, and when I pulled into the driveway, my mileage, according to the computer, was in the mid-40's. I left the mileage indicator up, so my wife would see it next time she drove the car. OK. OK. So I cheated. But it WAS funny. She was oddly quiet about fuel mileage for a few days after that (probably trying to match my cheated numbers). When she finally mentioned it, I couldn't stop laughing, so she knew she'd been had.... Hmmmm...wonder if that's the way the EPA works it?
Your explanation makes sense. As for my driving habit, I drive very smoothly and this is where I don't understand my MPG. I got 31MPG on my last tank, but I filled up again yesterday and I got 39MPG. That is a big change and my driving habit is the same. It was the first time a I got 31MPG and the second time I got 39MPG. I keep a track everytime I fill up.
Maybe you can answer this question: when I fill up gas, do the gas tank really become full when the first click happens or can the gas tank take more gas? I have got varying answers, but I still don't know what is the truth. I usually fill up gas and then go one more click after the first click.
On my last car, which was a Mazda 6, my MPG's didn't change much. Always stayed around 28-29 range. Yet, with my NAH, its all over the charts. I see no consistency. I do a lot of freeway driving. I am more like 90% Freeway and 10% city. On my trip computer, I keep it on the "Range" reading and the funny part is, the range increases more on the freeway, while in city driving it decreases.
Lastly, I have started to keep my NAH going smooth at one speed in the city instead trying to keep it in EV mode because EV mode goes in and out. Do you think the MPG will be better this way or just accelerate and then keep it in EV and then accelerate again to keep it in EV mode and keep doing this over and over again? Wouldn't having a constant speed regardless of EV Mode, help your MPG?
Driving a hybrid is very interesting and there is always something to learn. I appreciate your input.
Mileage differences go back to that discussion we had about how you fill your tank. The nozzles on gas pumps are pretty variable, even within the same gas station. Some will click off too soon and some will actually click off too late, even going as far as to spew fuel on the ground (most drivers have probably experienced that). That can account for up to a gallon, even two, difference in the fill. The principle of a gas hose is that it clicks off when backpressure gets high enough. High backpressure indicates fuel touching the end of the hose (full tank). The problem, especially in California, is that there is a gas vapor recycling system (that's that accordion-like thing on the hose). If it is plugged, or if the hose slips out of the car even slightly, the pump will click off. Additionally, the sensors that sense the backpressure don't have any real standard, and can click off the fuel flow in a wide range of variables. You may THINK you have a full tank, but you may not actually have that.
I myself was on a trip a few weeks ago. Was filling up at some little gas station down in mid-state. That pump would NOT fill my tank past 3/4 full for some reason. Something wrong with the sensor on the hose. If I'd calculated my gas mileage there, I would have had some pretty strange numbers.
So, here's a scenario that would affect gas mileage..There's all kinds, but this one would probably be common. You fill up your tank. The pump clicks off too soon. You get 10 gallons into the tank, then look at your trip meter, which shows you've gone 400 miles. You think your gas mileage is 40 MPG. OK. Now you drive for a while. You fill up again after 400 miles. This time the pump works correctly. You pump 12 gallons of gas (10 gallons, plus the two you missed in the last fill-up due to the early shut off) You do your calculations. They show you've gotten 33.3 MPG. The reality is that your car is getting about the same gas mileage, but because of variability in the fill ups, you're showing a significant difference in mileage.
How do you fix that? Well, there's not really any way to fix it, other than to be really sure your tank is actually full (several clicks, and jockeying the hose in the filler pipe a couple of times will reduce the problem I just discussed, but not completely). By the way, on my NAH, I've noticed that the fuel gauge is pretty accurate. When it's showing 1/2 tank, I pump 10 gallons (assuming the pump is working right). That being the case, the range (which is, as you know, the car's calculation of how much range you've got left, based upon your average mileage, and the amount of fuel you have left) should be pretty accurate.
Now an interesting thing about your story is that you say your mileage range shown by the car's computer decreases in the city. This would indicate that your city driving doesn't stay in EV much. EV is where you'll get the big numbers. A car using it's ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) gets the crappiest mileage in the city, because acceleration and stop/go driving is what hammers gas mileage. Every time your ICE kicks in, in city driving, your range will decrease, since your hybrid is behaving more like a conventional car at that point. It's tough to stay in EV mode, especially with someone crowding you from behind, but staying in EV mode is necessary to get those long ranges, and "upsidedown" mileage numbers that hybrid cars are known for (big city mileage, not as good hiway milage).
One final comment (at least for now..haha). If you suspect that something isn't working right in your car, there ARE situations where something might be misbehaving, and your dashboard trouble lights won't illuminate. If you think you've got a problem, take your car in and get the Nissan folks to put it on the scanalyzer. If something is wrong, your car's computer will let them know, when it talks to the scanalyzer.....
Thanks for the explanation. I just might take it in for a scanalyzer and find out what is going on. One time I filled up the gas and it was full, but the fuel gauge didn't show that until a few minuted into driving. I thought something was wrong with the fuel gauge. Also, I figure out my MPG by doing my own calculations.
You are totally right about EV mode. First, its hard to stay in EV mode and second, people crowd up behind you. I try to stay in EV mode whens its possible, but most of the time, I keep a constant smooth speed.
I have already had one problem with my NAH and that was the car was pulling to the right. The dealer fixed the problem, but no after I filed a claim with BBB and went through tremendous hassle. Actually, I have never spent so much time on any of my cars trying to fix a problem until I has this problem with my NAH (pulling to the right.) I still believe the problem is not fixed because the shop foreman couldn't guarantee the problem was not going to comeback.
I think it all depends on the pump. There were some places where I could put in an extra gallon after the first click. and then there were other places where gas spews out right after the 1st click. I don't think your long-term gas mileage is really affected by this as it all gets weighed out in the end
Don't make the assumption that the odomenter is correct. Using my GPS, which I believe is very accurate, I've determined that my NAH odometer is off by about 2+% - under reporting. That's about the same difference between manual calculations and the computer.
I was driving south on 495 in MA and the GPS said 50 miles until the next turn at my exit. I reset the trip meter and when I arrived at the exit 50 miles later the trip meter was reading about 48.5 miles.
I drove my NAH with GPS directions on a highway. I had a second portable GPS I just bought as a gift for my dead but wanted to test it first; at the same time, 2 miles before an exit, NAH GPS says "exit in 2 miles", the portable GPS says "exit in half a mile". Maybe an extreme example but this discrepancy did happen couple of times.
I'm not saying your GPS is not accurate but I don't think it's a valid measuring tool no matter how great it is. 'Drive by wire' GPS, such as in NAH, would be probably better, as if you loose a signal it still shows your correct location.
I drive Holland Tunnel from NY to NJ daily and it shows precisely where you are at all time. If you come out of tunnel and get a signal again, the car icon doesn't even have to adjust itself, it points exactly where you are. Pretty cool.
But I guess we can leave GPS talk to another forum...
I use a GPS receiver/logger connected to TomTom Navigator 6 on my Treo 755p. The GPS sends lat, long and measured speed to the software. The speed is displayed on the screen. As a longtime GPS user, I know that the speed from the GPS receiver is the most accurate.
Having said that, when I used my portable GPS in our NAH, I found that the speed readout on my portable GPS matched the speedometer. Assuming that the odometer and speedometer are tied together, I believe the NAH odometer is accurate. On my RAV4, the speedometer indicates about -1-2 relative to the GPS readout.
Regarding the differences in "distance to a turn," that is a software based algorithm that is dependent on the mapping database. The system may use a plus or minus 50 yards to give a warning, depending on the system being used. Accuracy is not as important.
When using the GPS, as I described to check my odometer, it's the map data that determines the distance between two different points such as my starting point and the end point, which was my exit. The map data, in my opinion, is pretty accurate - similar to the maps you'd find on MapQuest. These are the detailed maps that you have to load - not the base map. The GPS just determines how close you are to the starting point and how close you are to the end point when you get there so, at the worst, it would be no more than 400 ft off. My odometer was like a mile and a half off.
GPS is, of course, actually a military system. There are two levels of accuracy transmitted by these GPS "constellations" (groups of GPS satellites). The military broadcast is accurate down to about a yard, or even less, depending upon other factors (I'll get to those in a sec). The civilian broadcast is much less accurate, and the military actually imbeds what's called a "dither factor" into that signal, so that the accuracy continually changes from a yard or two, to easily dozens of yards. This is to prevent a foreign nation from using our own technology to guide their weapons. What you will see in civilian GPSs of ANY kind or maker, is a changing accuracy caused by this dither factor. But wait, there's more!
GPS accuracy is also depended upon the number of satellites your unit can "see". The minimum number of GPSs your unit must be able to see to get lat/long and atiltude are 4. Cheap GPSs, then, often have just 4 channels. But your GPS can be a lot more accurate, if it can see more satellites. Thus, good GPSs often have 12 channels. Now here's the rub. GPS satellites are not geosyncronous, meaning they do not stay in the same place in the sky at all times, like TV, weather, and communications satellites do. So, at any given time, there will be a number of GPS satellites in the sky, with others popping up over the horizon, and others going out of sight over the horizon. Your GPS unit keeps track of where these satellites are supposed to be with something called ephemeris data (it's a file that uses time of day and lat/long of the unit to generate a sky map for the GPS of where the birds are). Downloading this file from a satellite is why your GPS takes longer the first time you turn it on, or after it's been stored for a while. The accuracy of that ephemeris data and how it is updated is actually closely guarded by GPS manufacturers. It is the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. Becasue of all these factors, your GPS, ANY GPS (without the inertial navigation system that NAHs have for tunnels and deep valleys) will have varying accuracy from day to day, and yes, even from minute to minute.
Interesting side note here. In the beginning of the second Gulf War, when we weren't sure when the military was actually going to attack, I had my GPS turned on. It's an older Garmin model which displays the dither factor. Minutes before the first cruise missles slammed into downtown Bagdad, we saw the dither factor go nuts. We knew something was about to happen.
OK. So you have two GPS units in your car which are telling you different things. My guess is that there is a part of the car or surrounding environment that is blocking the sky view for one of the units, making it less accurate. If your TomTom is more accurate, that's cool, but I bet if you kept using the GPSs, together, you'd find days where the NAH is more accurate.
One other thing you have to consider is that the two GPS systems may actually be affecting each other. GPS is nothing more than fancy radio signals. Units on the ground lock onto radio signals by generating their own radio signal, and then comparing it to the signals in the environment until it finds what it's looking for (It's actually called "superhetrodyne" for you electronics geeks). Since there is a radio signal being broadcast by each GPS unit, the OTHER unit in close proximity to it can actually be picked up, and confuse the unit. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen....
Additionally, the designers of the GPS systems have to make judgement calls as to things like "what is an exit?" Sounds like a simple question. But where do you place the "X" that says "exit" in your onboard maps? At the tip of the lane split? At the first curve? Half-way between one highway and another, along the exit ramp? This can be a very difficult decision, since there are so many different kinds of exits, ramps, merges, etc., etc. Obviously, since this is proprietary software, TomTom and the people that make Nissan's GPS make different decisions....
All that being said, I've been particularly underwhelmed with my Nissan's GPS. It has taken us on some sight-seeing trips that got us to a destination nowhere near where we wanted to go. Odd. Very odd. Now, we basically use the GPS on long trips to let us know how much farther it is, miles/time-wise to our destination (Are we therrrrrre yet?!?!)
http://www.eagerodometers.com/advise.html
I had an interesting situation last summer. I ride motorcycles. A buddy of mine and I both have Garmins on our bikes. His is a Street Pilot (can't remember the exact model) and mine is an older GPS V. We would always show a variance between the two GPS units regarding how far we had to go to the next waypoint. I assume his was more accurate, since it was a newer unit, but over a day's course, we'd often show a difference of a mile or better. For fuel calcs over a long haul, this wouldn't even come up into the first order of magnitude, calculations-wise (wouldn't make any difference), but it's a variance, never the less.
I do mostly freeway driving. 85% Freeway and 15% stop and go. I am due for a oil change and will get the 0W20 sythetic oil. I live in Northern,CA and right now the temperatures are low 30's at night and high 50's in the day time. I am not a aggressive driver. There are no hills. I think you lose MPG when climbing hills, but if you coast down a hill, you save gas. Overall, I take it very easy with my NAH when braking, accelerating etc. Whenever there are no cars behind me on city streets as well as the speed limit being 35MPH, I drive in EV mode. All my fillups have given me a minimum of 360 miles to the half tank. My goal is to get 38MPG. I change my air filter every 10,000miles, oil 4,000 to 5,000 miles. Also, I use fuel treatment every 10,000 miles. On my previous car, I used to rotate and balance tires every 5,000 miles, but on my NAH I will do it every 10,000 miles.
http://www.edmunds.com/tmv/used/2007/nissan/altimahybrid/index.html
PS - we got the Altima over the Camry - seemed more user friendly, less cabin clutter, more usable trunk volume, better $$ incentives.
Hope this helps, have fun!
you can't get a dealership to trade for one?
the future will of course be better, but how long will that take? by then I would have already broke even on getting a hybrid (another 3-4 years depending on gas prices). so i'm not a big believer of "waiting for the new model to come out" before i make my next purchase
the thinking is, if i were to go on a road trip to ohio, and my car has problems, what am i supposed to do?
I went back to the dealership and spent a whole day with the service department and they said they fixed the problem. Well, driving home, the problem still existed.
I filed a claim with BBB and Nissan contacted me to solve the problem. They gave me a rental for a day and kept my NAH to fix it. The worked on it, aligned, rotated, used computers to solve the problem. They called me up and said the problem was fixed. They finally fixed the problem. I talk to the shop foreman and he said he couldn't guarantee me the problem was fixed.
Well, time came to rotate/balance my tires and I went and got my tires rotated and balanced. The same problem is back again. The car pulls to the right. It went back to doing the samething. I called the service advisor to tell him the problem is back after 3 months and hasn't called me back.
I need some advice on what to do? Please, if anyone can help me, I would highly appreciate the suggestions. I have never spent so much time trying to fix a problem with any of my cars, except for this NAH. Its has been a problem since day one. Is it a problem with the alignment, tires or something worse?
I had a similar problem a few years back on another car I owned (not the NAH). Brand new tires. Bad pull. It was driving me crazy. I finally got the car to someone who wasn't just a tire flipper, but knew suspensions and tires. He spotted the problem (but not until after some work with a strobe light). One of my tires had an uneven sidewall. Balanced fine. No weird tread wear. But that thing pulled like a sled dog within sight of the finish line. New tire and the problem disappeared.
If the service manager at the Nissan dealership where you take your car hasn't returned a call in 3 months, you've waited quite a long time. I probably wouldn't have let him/her get away with that for more than a week or so. It may be likely that your "case" has been forgotten. At any rate, they should have gotten back to you by now. I would give the dealership General Manager one last call, and tell him/her that if they don't help you, you're going to Nissan's Consumer Affairs. Don't get nasty. Don't threaten to sue (as soon as you open that can of worms, they will not communicate with you, in case a case does occur). Just state the facts, and politely tell them how much you love the car, but how unhappy you are that this problem can't be resolved.
Dealerships are very carefully watched by Nissan, and if they don't hit their marks, Nissan can make life miserable for them. They do NOT want you to "got to corporate" (even if the guy laughs and says, "Go ahead"). My guess is that the General Manager will get some action in the service department for you.
In cases such as this, where you are still not getting local satisfaction, elevate the problem (this works for ANY industry). In Nissan's case, I would contact Nissan Consumer Affairs at 800-647-7261. Have all your paperwork. Have a diary of when you experienced the problem and what was done about it. Get names of who you talked to and what they said to you and when. Have receipts. Have your story straight so you can step through the situation on a time-line. Be polite. Don't get nasty. Be sure to tell them that the problem came back after a balance/rotate. You might even suggest a new set of tires.You'd be surprised how things will get fixed for you. I'd guess they'd offer to pro-rate your current tires, so you pay a small percentage of the new tires, which, if was me, would seem reasonable.
If you're not organized, and just complain in general, without giving specifics about the problem it will be difficult for the dealership to take you seriously, as much as they should. Keep your eye on the ball, and show them you have a problem that needs resolution, and that you're willing to work with them, and they'll be more reponsive. But again, if they don't respond. Call Nissan Corporate.
Give it a shot, and let us know what happens!
What I did was, I went to a different dealership in town and talk to a technician and he said its most likely a tire problem. He said to make a appointment and bring it in. I have the service this coming up Saturday 3/15/08.
Its been a very frustrating, confusing and more importantly, I have spent so much time on this problem. I am even thinking about trading or selling my car because its been such a hassle. I'll see what happens this Saturday and if the dealership cannot fix the problem, I just might sell the car and never buy a nissan again. I have never spent so much time trying to fix a problem on any of my previous cars. Lets see what happens and I'll let you know.
I have a G35 (that I love) that I'm thinking about trading for a NAH. I like that many of the G35's features are found in the Altima. Like you, I live in a state (Tennessee) far from where they are sold. Has the experience been good for you? Have you had any service issues living in Houston? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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I'm in NYC myself, and yes, got a chance to use AC for the first time sine the weather got nice finally, but there's no smell at all; just nice cold air (unless you're right behind stinky truck burning oil). Might want to have it checked at the dealer.
K
when you turn on the AC, the vents are cooled and if it gets more humid out, condensation will build up on your vent. the water causes there to be a stench.
shouldn't be anything to worry about unless it keeps on occurring
I'm happy to report that the smell previously mentioned has gradually lessened over the past few days so it probably was nothing serious. If this issue ever surfaces again I'll just have to bring it in to a Nissan shop to have it checked. But thanks to everyone who have responded to my SOS!!
I spoke to dealer & they will check it out when I bring in for next oil change, but I sure hope it can improved, that perhaps I have a bad mike or something.
Anyone else have any problems with this? Otherwise, I love the vehicle.