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What do you guys think of the certified Honda CR-Vs? Are they any good? A guy is selling a 1998 CR-V EX that he bought through the certified HONDA program last year. I searched the CARFAX and found the car has been driven in New York for the first 4 years and has failed emission test once. It was then certified by a California Dealership last year and the current owner bought this car. He has the Honda Care ext. Warranty also. But I am concerned about the emission test failure and the bad winters in New York might have rusted someting and cause problems later. Any thoughts, thanks.
Should be getting my new Black EX-CRV soon. I hate the chrome treatments and I am considering getting the chrome blackened. Anybody try this or have any friendly advice?
Well, my '97 CRV has lived its whole life in NY and not a spot of rust on it anywhere. Calif. has an emission inspection program right? It passed there didn't it? I would be more concerned if it had high mileage. Emission inspection is only required in downstate NY, so the way the winters have been mild in NY except for this past year, I doubt the car ever saw a large amount of salty roads.
The viscosity standards as set up by the API & SAE trace back to a measure of "how long does a standard size ball in a standard size cylinder at a standard temperature take to fall a standard distance".
Every "grade" of viscosity traces back to a number/rate of falling.
The numbers for a multi-vis oil (all number W number oils are multi- vis) are simply shorthand for saying no thicker than X at a standard low temp and equal to Z at a standard operating temp thus XwZ or 0w20, 5w20, 10w30 et cetera.
If the "0" part is giving you pause, think of it a just a point on a scale, the same way that 0 Celsius is 32 Fahrenheit and 100 Celsius is 212 Fahrenheit The scale itself is somewhat arbitrary. It is just a measure of how much "resistance to flow" the fluid presents. It says nothing about how slippery the lubricant is, how well it clings to surfaces & itself, how heat stable it is or anything else (though in practice some of those qualities do change in direct relation to viscosity...)
I've got a 2000 CRV. The pressure on my windsheild sprayers (those two little doohickeys on the hood that spray windshield cleaner) has suddenly gone very low. I've checked that nothing is blocking them.....dirt, rocks, etc. The rear window sprayer works great.............the pressure on the front one just won't giddeup. Is there a dead pump somewhere?
Try pulling the hose off before the "Tee" fitting that branches off to each nozzle under the hood and see if you get good pressure. Check the line back to the pump for kinks before replacing anything.
I'm not sure if the jets are held onto the hood with clips. You might try removing them and soaking in a hot water/soap solution. Must be dried car wax. In the past, I also once had a can of compressed air with the plastic nozzle wand attachment. Blasted some air through the outside orifice and through the hose tube inlet. If it's not car wax, you might want to flush/refill the washer tank, you might have contaminates in there that are going to clog up the jets again.
I was wondering if any of you CRV owners compared it to a Subaru Forester before buying, and if so, what made you go with the CRV? The Forester supposedly has better crash test ratings.
I have some bias towards hondas, but in my opinion, the forester felt just like a station wagon. I didn't get the "up high" feeling and sight lines in the forester. Even though they are both cars, the Honda has that "SUV" feeling.
Forester has standard side head/chest air bags, so it did better in the IIHS side impact tests. The CR-V tested was the LX model with no side air bags, but even the EX's air bags do not protect your head. Also, the Forester got a better structure/safety cage score.
The wagon comment is a little ironic, because the high up feeling did not translate into better protection when hit by a high barrier, meant to simulate a truck or an SUV impacting you on the side. The lower Forester protected passengers better:
Go try a Forester XT, 5 speed in particular. C&D reached 60mph in 5.3 seconds, that's quicker than a Honda S2000, never mind a CR-V. It's also within 3/10ths of a Porsche Cayenne turbo, and quicker than just about anything else with a two-box shape.
Or don't, 'cause once you do everything else will seem extremely slow (including my Forester, BTW).
There is no doubt that the Forester is the safer car. Lower center of gravity and side curtain airbags. Handles better also. (not to mention full-time AWD...oops, just did).
The "up high" comment was just a driving impression.. I didn't mean to imply that it made the vehicle safer.
The turbo would be great, but at that point, I'd just take the WRX wagon.
You make a small advantage sound like a disadvantage.
Forester actually has a lot more equipment available, a lot:
* heated seats * heated mirrors * front and rear wiper de-icers * 67% longer powertrain warranty * 3 years of roadside assistance * roof rack cross bars standard * fog lights standard * side air bags that protect the head, standard * ABS standard on base model (EX only for Honda) * rear limited slip differential * 16" rims * more front leg room (esp. for passenger)
The 16" rims are required because the brakes are bigger (and use twin piston calipers), they do not even fit inside 15" rims like the CR-V uses.
Also, CR-V's tumble and fold seats require two steps, the Forester's seats fold down much more easily and in one step.
You cannot get them comparably equipped, they're both packaged differently. Generally a Forester has more equipment when you compare an X to an LX (ABS for starters), or an XS Premium to an EX.
The XT I test drove was $23.9k, and some have found deals for about $23.5k. That's a little more money for a bunch more performance and features.
The CR-V EX makes a good budget buy, since Honda packaged the moonroof and 6CD standard, and it has the side air bags and ABS. But you're forced into the top model to get those basic safety features that a stripped Forester X includes standard (for about $18.5k too).
Also, CR-V's tumble and fold seats require two steps, the Forester's seats fold down much more easily and in one step.
I thought head-rests had to be removed and the lower cusion had to flip up? I know the seats in the CR-V are supposed to be snapped into position when they're tumbled but, I never have and, they never go anywhere.
After looking into the MPG figures it came back to me. The Forester has lower MPG numbers and it's smaller. That was a plus for the CR-V. The CR-V has more cargo area. More passenger area. It sits higher. Tighter turning radius. Has excellent safety ratings. And it was cheaper than a Forester with 6 disc changer, sunroof, tinted glass, auto tranny, floor mats and air filtration. The CR-V had everything we wanted without making us pay for premium stuff we didn't care about.
The one thing the Forester had that I couldn't get on the CR-V (and actually wanted) are the heated wipers.
On my '98, you don't have to remove the head rests. On the 2003 it may depend on how far back the front seat is, but you can leave them on if you want.
The lower cushion does not come up. It does on the Legacy, but not the Forester.
We were shopping for MT; the CR-V got 20/25, a Forester gets 21/27 (+1.5 mpg avg), higher not lower. Even auto is 22/26 for Honda and 21/26 for the Forester (-0.5 mpg avg), hardly worth mention. Plus the Forester's gas tank is bigger, so range is better with either tranny. Advantage Subaru.
The XT's mileage is lower, but like I said it's quicker than an S2000, so if you expect that kind of performance you ought to be willing to pay a little more.
Forester's shape allows for big, boxy items. CR's measurements have it bigger than the previous generation CR-V (I don't recall if the new CR-V has more space), also more than the Pathfinder. I fit a large capacity Maytag still in the box, that's enough for me.
The roof rack has more capacity (150 lbs) and the payload is higher (900 lbs). That offsets the CR-V's extra size. Towing is also 2000-2400 lbs, vs. 1500 lbs.
Did you check out the moonroof? It's HUGE, more than twice as big as any competitor's. It serves the front and back seats. Sure it costs more, it's worth more.
Most subie owners get closer to the low end of their EPA range
Not true. I'm averaging 25 mpg, 24 is about average for most Forester owners. Even XT owners are reporting mileage in the 21-22 range, well above EPA estimates.
You may have seen XT mileage figures and compared them to XS' EPA estimates.
icvci: I agree that you shouldn't have to pay extra for things you don't want, for example having to get a moonroof on the CR-V to get side air bags and ABS. Those are basic safety features that should be standard on every model, not just reserved for the rich.
Like I said, though, I do think the EX is well packaged and priced, it's a good budget buy.
-juice
PS Look at how many Civic hybrid test drives have had actual mileage well below EPA estimates. YMMV, as they say.
Good article in the latest issue of Popular Mechanics. They run a Civic EX against a Civic Hybrid across the country. Verdict - It would take 144,000 miles to get the extra money spent on the Hybrid back in your wallet. Of course, hybrid technology is about more than just saving money though.
I know the moonroof is HUGE. Personally, I don't care. It's cool but, nothing I'd want to pay more for.
Even auto is 22/26 for Honda and 21/26 for the Forester (-0.5 mpg avg), hardly worth mention.
That's really funny, when I thought it was the other way around, you said it was a small advantage but an advantage none the less. LOL : )
The Forester tank holds six tenths of a gallon more, city range goes to the CR-V and highway to the Forester (according to Edmunds). Either way, it is negligable.
I don't know what the roof rack rating is on the CR-V or the payload lbs. Do you? If I were going to tow something I'd buy a different vehicle, like the Liberty.
I fit a Maytag Neptune washing machine in the back of my Civic hatch, (not in the box). I needed room for my child, my wife, luggage, baby things and 2 dogs, the Forester wasn't going to cut it. (Without something on the roof. Forget about mileage once you throw a carrier on the roof.)
I was shopping for manual trannies, remember, and there the advantage is 3 times bigger. In other words, we were both right, it's just we were both talking about different trannies.
I think the CR-V's roof rack can handle 100 lbs, anyone confirm? I've put five 4'x8' sheets of plywood, 3/8" thick, even got a photo. I've also hauled two sections of 6'x8' fencing. It's handy to have those cross bars. The 2003s actually deleted a useful feature - the roof rails on the newer Forester do not have handles, which used to be great as tie-downs.
Don't you get a $3000 tax deduction if you own a hybrid? Or is that only for pure electrics? If you're in a 40% tax bracket, you could get $1200 per year in tax credits.
The biggest benefit, though is RANGE. You could drive forever, or get gas twice a month instead of 4-5 times.
Loading the roof costs me about 1-2 mpg on trips, not too bad. Towing kills mileage, though. I pulled about 2000 lbs and measured mileage during towing exclusively, managed an awful 17.3 mpg, my worst ever by a long shot.
Of course that's about what you'd get in that Liberty without a trailer.
I thought it was $2000 back on hybrids. Very good point. That would offset much of the additional cost, I wonder why PM didn't mention that?
I really did like the Forester. Especially when they told me I could use my Uncle's status as a former GM employee to get a discount. Ultimately though, the CR-V just fit my needs best.
My wife loved the seating position when she was pregnant too. She found it much easier to climb up a little than to sit down and pull herself up to get out.
Last I heard, the tax benefits for hybrids were factored into your taxable income, not something that comes off the amount you might owe. In the end, they amount to no more than $200 for most people.
This is an older thread (about 7 months ago), so the information may now be out of date. However, it makes the point that the tax break is a deduction, not a credit. The rest of the discussion is about whether or not the government should be offering tax deductions, but that's a whole other subject.
If you are up in the highest brackets, you'd get back about $200. The lowest brackets could get about $300. Do a search in that thread and you'll find quite a few posts on the subject.
Yeah.. I just looked at Honda's website. A one-time $2000 federal tax deduction. My top tax bracket right now, with the new tax bill, is 25%, which would be a savings of $500. The car might pay for itself over a normal car lifetime of usage, but not worth the difference on that count alone, I don't think.
"I agree that you shouldn't have to pay extra for things you don't want, for example having to get a moonroof on the CR-V to get side air bags and ABS. Those are basic safety features that should be standard on every model, not just reserved for the rich."
I get your message, but the side airbags are available all the way down to the lowly LX 2WD as a stand alone option. the EX package of ABS, side airbags, moonroof and 6-disc changer is typical of Honda, packaging the most requested options together at a much cheaper cost.
I'm not sure side airbags are basic safety features yet, though they may become that way. But, I would like to see ABS become a standard feature on all cars, as it really improves the braking ability of the average driver in panic situations.
Kyfdx - $500 is more than I've read in other threads, so that actually looks promissing! My wife and I calculated (using realistic numbers) that a Civic Hybrid would save us about $50 per month on our Mobil bill. In the end, that means 2 nights at the movies with popcorn and a drink.
Robmarch - FWIW, I agree. I don't think you can call side airbags a "basic feature" when they are not even available on some models. If we go that route, we'd have to include things like four wheel disks, dual belt pretensioners, and other tech bits in base models. Subaru would appear to be the oddity (in a good way) as far as airbags and base models go.
A lot of people will look at their overall tax rate (tax/income) and make assumptions on savings from that. However, any extra tax deduction you receive saves you money at your highest tax rate, which for most middle income taxpayers is 25%. 25% times $2000 = $500. I'm not sure what other savings you could expect, other than gas. I would think maintenance costs might be higher. You have a battery and electric motor to maintain, as well as a gasoline engine.
Guess we overestimated the deduction for hybrids. Put it this way, it should be that much. :-)
Sad about the pollution on that river.
rob: can you get the side air bags on the LX 5 speed? We were looking at manual trannies, that may be why I couldn't get them. I think it was an option on the automatics only. Weird.
varmint: while I agree with you, Honda should lead in terms of safety, not follow. Look at how many safety features VW offers. Suddenly VW is charging more for the same size car than Honda and people are gladly paying it. How did that happen?
Even Toyota offers stability control and at least a-la-carte availability of many safety features.
I guess I just much prefer the way Acura packages their cars. I realize they're more upscale than Honda, and I do think new models like the Accord have better levels of equipment on the base models (but not Element).
has anyone put the cladding on there 02 or 03 crv if so any thoughts on installation or happy or not with the way it looks. i myself have been thinking about dressing up my 02 silver, must be this mid-life thing,lol, really wish it came with colored bumpers and moldings like canada version. carm
can you get the side air bags on the LX 5 speed? We were looking at manual trannies, that may be why I couldn't get them. I think it was an option on the automatics only.
Side air bags are an option on the LX 5 speed with RT4WD. The LX 2WD only comes with an automatic transmission, with or without the side air bag option.
actually, the CRV EX is exactly how Acura packages their cars, putting all of the options together and charging a cheaper price for them by making them standard equipment. Acura, as you pointed out, is an upscale make, so they don't have to worry about making a stripped TL or RSX, they have the Accord and civic Si for those buyers.
Some people like to pick the options they want only, and some people would rather have all of the options standard, for the price of a few of them. One downside to this is the included sunroof, which can intrude into headroom for the tall folk out there. but, you can't get a TL without it
Use economies of scale - put side air bags and ABS on all models. Streamline assembly to save costs.
I think when IIHS expands the side impact testing, manufacturers will be forced to make more safety features standard because IIHS tests the lowest priced models, i.e. Hondas without side air bags.
Honda improved all their models in IIHS offset crash scores, so we know they're paying attention.
"Honda should lead in terms of safety, not follow"
Well, Honda offers (as either an option or standard) the same levels of safety equipment as most other manufacturers. Are there a few with more gear in their cars? Yes. However there are also others with less safe designs. Honda is competitive in this area. They may not be leading, but they certainly aren't trailing, either.
It also depends on how you want to focus your attention. Last I checked, the CR-V was the only off-road vehicle to earn a high marks for pedestrian impacts in European safety tests. IIRC, the CR-V scored higher than the Volvo. Why aren't the others leading instead of following?
A company can only lead in so many areas. If Honda took the best of everything they do and put it into the CR-V, it would cost as much as an X5. Honda is already among the leaders when it comes to emissions control, quality, fuel economy, engines, suspension, ergonomics, manual transmissions, reliability, alternative fuels, value, and other areas. There will always be a niche where someone can surpass them. No company has the resources to be the best at everything.
I'm with you guys on the ABS. it should be standard on all cars.
I don't have a problem with them charging the reasonable option price for the side airbags on the CRV, just as they do on the civic. those who don't want it can save a couple hundred. those who do, pay a couple hundred more.
ABS actively protects not only yourself, but other drivers, pedestrians, etc., in foul weather. it should be standard on every car.
"ABS actively protects not only yourself, but other drivers, pedestrians, etc., in foul weather. it should be standard on every car."
Actually, there is little evidence to support that. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have ABS, too. But the studies conducted by the insurance industry show little real-world benefit to having ABS. Or, at the least, the advantages are countered by the problems with them. I believe many insurance companies have actually removed any discounts for cars with ABS.
OK, but then they're middle of the pack, watching folks like VW lead the way. They offer side curtain air bags and stability control on their basic mid-size sedan (Passat).
Honda has the resources, more so than Subaru, who is 1/10th Honda's size. So yes, it may be unfair, but I do expect more from them.
I bet the pedestrian impact thing was a lucky coincidence. I doubt that influenced the design of the structure.
FWIW, I still get an insurance discount for ABS, except on my Miata, which doesn't have it (it was rare back in '93). It hydroplanes when braking in the rain so I just don't drive it at all in foul weather.
I am considering an 02 or 03 CRV and have a couple of questions. I would on occasion need to use a Thule or Yakima carrier in which I could carry 2 or 3 sets of golf clubs. Is the roof rack sturdy enough to safely do this and what is the weight limit? Also, when does the model year change on this vehicle? I am thinking of buying used and believe the 02's would take a small hit when the 04's are released. Thank you in advance for the info.
Pedestrian safety will become a bigger issue as both the EU and Japan have standards for protecting pedestrians in case of impact with an auto which are tightening - things like higher front ends and concealed wiper arms.
Juice - Honda is also watching the other half of the pack trying to keep up. Honda has standard ABS, side airbags (both curtain and torso) on one of their mid-size sedans. It happens to be badged as the Acura TSX and it costs about the same as a similarly equipped Passat.
Honda is about 1/10th the size of companies like GM. The fact that they lead in so many areas is quite remarkable, given that they are the smallest of the major players.
As posted by Robr2, the high scores in pedestrian impacts were not a happy turn of fate. Ever wonder why the CR-V's wiper jets are recessed into the hood? Now you know.
Wasjr - I doubt that the 2004 model will have a significant impact on resale fo the 2002. No major changes have been rumored. As for when they come out, I'm expecting late in the year. Probably sometime in November.
Comments
Here's my link to counter Tidester's synthetic one :-)
Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2
The motor oil debate is almost a more "religious" one than the posts by the car wax buffs.
Steve, Host
INKY
Every "grade" of viscosity traces back to a number/rate of falling.
The numbers for a multi-vis oil (all number W number oils are multi- vis) are simply shorthand for saying no thicker than X at a standard low temp and equal to Z at a standard operating temp thus XwZ or 0w20, 5w20, 10w30 et cetera.
If the "0" part is giving you pause, think of it a just a point on a scale, the same way that 0 Celsius is 32 Fahrenheit and 100 Celsius is 212 Fahrenheit The scale itself is somewhat arbitrary. It is just a measure of how much "resistance to flow" the fluid presents. It says nothing about how slippery the lubricant is, how well it clings to surfaces & itself, how heat stable it is or anything else (though in practice some of those qualities do change in direct relation to viscosity...)
I've got a 2000 CRV.
The pressure on my windsheild sprayers (those two little doohickeys on the hood that spray windshield cleaner) has suddenly gone very low. I've checked that nothing is blocking them.....dirt, rocks, etc. The rear window sprayer works great.............the pressure on the front one just won't giddeup.
Is there a dead pump somewhere?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Followed your instructions and took all the hoses out and flushed them and re-installed. The pressure is fine coming through all the hoses.
So it needs to be in the spigots/sprayers themselves. I've gotten in their with a needle and tried to get them unblocked ........... no luck.
Any other suggestions about how to get them cleaned out would be terrific.
Thanks
If it's not car wax, you might want to flush/refill the washer tank, you might have contaminates in there that are going to clog up the jets again.
Now if I can just get these dang things unhooked.
I'll look for a clip or ??????? Obviously the clip is on the inside of the hood???Dosn't seem to be screwed on. Must be a clip
It's a bit tough getting to them but will persevere.
Thanks
kyfdx
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The wagon comment is a little ironic, because the high up feeling did not translate into better protection when hit by a high barrier, meant to simulate a truck or an SUV impacting you on the side. The lower Forester protected passengers better:
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_smsuv_side.ht- - m
Go try a Forester XT, 5 speed in particular. C&D reached 60mph in 5.3 seconds, that's quicker than a Honda S2000, never mind a CR-V. It's also within 3/10ths of a Porsche Cayenne turbo, and quicker than just about anything else with a two-box shape.
Or don't, 'cause once you do everything else will seem extremely slow (including my Forester, BTW).
-juice
I didn't buy it because -
Back seat didn't have enough leg room.
Gas mileage wasn't much better than the CR-V.
CR-V insurance was lower (for me).
Past experience with Honda.
Back seats recline and slide.
Flip down table for back seat access.
Easier to use cargo area. (Just tumble the seats.)
I liked the CR-V's interior materials and look better. (Not the seat fabric though, I HATE the fabric.)
Not a fan of the color choices.
A comparably equipped Forester was more money.
I liked the Forester, I just didn't like it more than the CR-V.
The "up high" comment was just a driving impression.. I didn't mean to imply that it made the vehicle safer.
The turbo would be great, but at that point, I'd just take the WRX wagon.
regards,
kyfdx
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You make a small advantage sound like a disadvantage.
Forester actually has a lot more equipment available, a lot:
* heated seats
* heated mirrors
* front and rear wiper de-icers
* 67% longer powertrain warranty
* 3 years of roadside assistance
* roof rack cross bars standard
* fog lights standard
* side air bags that protect the head, standard
* ABS standard on base model (EX only for Honda)
* rear limited slip differential
* 16" rims
* more front leg room (esp. for passenger)
The 16" rims are required because the brakes are bigger (and use twin piston calipers), they do not even fit inside 15" rims like the CR-V uses.
Also, CR-V's tumble and fold seats require two steps, the Forester's seats fold down much more easily and in one step.
You cannot get them comparably equipped, they're both packaged differently. Generally a Forester has more equipment when you compare an X to an LX (ABS for starters), or an XS Premium to an EX.
The XT I test drove was $23.9k, and some have found deals for about $23.5k. That's a little more money for a bunch more performance and features.
The CR-V EX makes a good budget buy, since Honda packaged the moonroof and 6CD standard, and it has the side air bags and ABS. But you're forced into the top model to get those basic safety features that a stripped Forester X includes standard (for about $18.5k too).
-juice
I thought head-rests had to be removed and the lower cusion had to flip up? I know the seats in the CR-V are supposed to be snapped into position when they're tumbled but, I never have and, they never go anywhere.
After looking into the MPG figures it came back to me. The Forester has lower MPG numbers and it's smaller. That was a plus for the CR-V. The CR-V has more cargo area. More passenger area. It sits higher. Tighter turning radius. Has excellent safety ratings. And it was cheaper than a Forester with 6 disc changer, sunroof, tinted glass, auto tranny, floor mats and air filtration. The CR-V had everything we wanted without making us pay for premium stuff we didn't care about.
The one thing the Forester had that I couldn't get on the CR-V (and actually wanted) are the heated wipers.
Most subie owners get closer to the low end of their EPA range as far as MPG goes. (At least that is what most people are posting)
Most CR-V owners get closer to the upper end of their EPA range some seem to get well above those numbers also.
The lower cushion does not come up. It does on the Legacy, but not the Forester.
We were shopping for MT; the CR-V got 20/25, a Forester gets 21/27 (+1.5 mpg avg), higher not lower. Even auto is 22/26 for Honda and 21/26 for the Forester (-0.5 mpg avg), hardly worth mention. Plus the Forester's gas tank is bigger, so range is better with either tranny. Advantage Subaru.
The XT's mileage is lower, but like I said it's quicker than an S2000, so if you expect that kind of performance you ought to be willing to pay a little more.
Forester's shape allows for big, boxy items. CR's measurements have it bigger than the previous generation CR-V (I don't recall if the new CR-V has more space), also more than the Pathfinder. I fit a large capacity Maytag still in the box, that's enough for me.
The roof rack has more capacity (150 lbs) and the payload is higher (900 lbs). That offsets the CR-V's extra size. Towing is also 2000-2400 lbs, vs. 1500 lbs.
Did you check out the moonroof? It's HUGE, more than twice as big as any competitor's. It serves the front and back seats. Sure it costs more, it's worth more.
Most subie owners get closer to the low end of their EPA range
Not true. I'm averaging 25 mpg, 24 is about average for most Forester owners. Even XT owners are reporting mileage in the 21-22 range, well above EPA estimates.
You may have seen XT mileage figures and compared them to XS' EPA estimates.
icvci: I agree that you shouldn't have to pay extra for things you don't want, for example having to get a moonroof on the CR-V to get side air bags and ABS. Those are basic safety features that should be standard on every model, not just reserved for the rich.
Like I said, though, I do think the EX is well packaged and priced, it's a good budget buy.
-juice
PS Look at how many Civic hybrid test drives have had actual mileage well below EPA estimates. YMMV, as they say.
I know the moonroof is HUGE. Personally, I don't care. It's cool but, nothing I'd want to pay more for.
Even auto is 22/26 for Honda and 21/26 for the Forester (-0.5 mpg avg), hardly worth mention.
That's really funny, when I thought it was the other way around, you said it was a small advantage but an advantage none the less. LOL : )
The Forester tank holds six tenths of a gallon more, city range goes to the CR-V and highway to the Forester (according to Edmunds). Either way, it is negligable.
I don't know what the roof rack rating is on the CR-V or the payload lbs. Do you? If I were going to tow something I'd buy a different vehicle, like the Liberty.
I fit a Maytag Neptune washing machine in the back of my Civic hatch, (not in the box). I needed room for my child, my wife, luggage, baby things and 2 dogs, the Forester wasn't going to cut it. (Without something on the roof. Forget about mileage once you throw a carrier on the roof.)
I think the CR-V's roof rack can handle 100 lbs, anyone confirm? I've put five 4'x8' sheets of plywood, 3/8" thick, even got a photo. I've also hauled two sections of 6'x8' fencing. It's handy to have those cross bars. The 2003s actually deleted a useful feature - the roof rails on the newer Forester do not have handles, which used to be great as tie-downs.
Don't you get a $3000 tax deduction if you own a hybrid? Or is that only for pure electrics? If you're in a 40% tax bracket, you could get $1200 per year in tax credits.
The biggest benefit, though is RANGE. You could drive forever, or get gas twice a month instead of 4-5 times.
Loading the roof costs me about 1-2 mpg on trips, not too bad. Towing kills mileage, though. I pulled about 2000 lbs and measured mileage during towing exclusively, managed an awful 17.3 mpg, my worst ever by a long shot.
Of course that's about what you'd get in that Liberty without a trailer.
-juice
I really did like the Forester. Especially when they told me I could use my Uncle's status as a former GM employee to get a discount. Ultimately though, the CR-V just fit my needs best.
My wife loved the seating position when she was pregnant too. She found it much easier to climb up a little than to sit down and pull herself up to get out.
Juice did you see the pictures on Yahoo of the Tiete river? YIKES! http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?c=news_photos&p=Tie- te+river+
What a mess.
regards,
kyfdx
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john1701a "Is it time to buy a hybrid? Are they up to the chore?" Dec 19, 2002 2:21pm
If you are up in the highest brackets, you'd get back about $200. The lowest brackets could get about $300. Do a search in that thread and you'll find quite a few posts on the subject.
regards, and thanks,
kyfdx
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I get your message, but the side airbags are available all the way down to the lowly LX 2WD as a stand alone option. the EX package of ABS, side airbags, moonroof and 6-disc changer is typical of Honda, packaging the most requested options together at a much cheaper cost.
I'm not sure side airbags are basic safety features yet, though they may become that way. But, I would like to see ABS become a standard feature on all cars, as it really improves the braking ability of the average driver in panic situations.
Robmarch - FWIW, I agree. I don't think you can call side airbags a "basic feature" when they are not even available on some models. If we go that route, we'd have to include things like four wheel disks, dual belt pretensioners, and other tech bits in base models. Subaru would appear to be the oddity (in a good way) as far as airbags and base models go.
regards,
kyfdx
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Sad about the pollution on that river.
rob: can you get the side air bags on the LX 5 speed? We were looking at manual trannies, that may be why I couldn't get them. I think it was an option on the automatics only. Weird.
varmint: while I agree with you, Honda should lead in terms of safety, not follow. Look at how many safety features VW offers. Suddenly VW is charging more for the same size car than Honda and people are gladly paying it. How did that happen?
Even Toyota offers stability control and at least a-la-carte availability of many safety features.
I guess I just much prefer the way Acura packages their cars. I realize they're more upscale than Honda, and I do think new models like the Accord have better levels of equipment on the base models (but not Element).
-juice
if so any thoughts on installation or happy or not with the way it looks. i myself have been thinking about dressing up my 02 silver, must be this mid-life thing,lol, really wish it came with colored bumpers and moldings like canada version.
carm
Side air bags are an option on the LX 5 speed with RT4WD. The LX 2WD only comes with an automatic transmission, with or without the side air bag option.
Some people like to pick the options they want only, and some people would rather have all of the options standard, for the price of a few of them. One downside to this is the included sunroof, which can intrude into headroom for the tall folk out there. but, you can't get a TL without it
I don't think the cosmetic items (moonroof, alloys) should be packaged with safety items (ABS, side air bags).
The new Accord LX has those safety features standard. Then you can step up to an EX if you want (and can afford) the cosmetic goodies.
That's how they should package the entire lineup. I think they nailed it on the new Accords.
-juice
-juice
Exactly! And, safty features should be available as an option on base models, if not offered as standard features.
I think when IIHS expands the side impact testing, manufacturers will be forced to make more safety features standard because IIHS tests the lowest priced models, i.e. Hondas without side air bags.
Honda improved all their models in IIHS offset crash scores, so we know they're paying attention.
-juice
Well, Honda offers (as either an option or standard) the same levels of safety equipment as most other manufacturers. Are there a few with more gear in their cars? Yes. However there are also others with less safe designs. Honda is competitive in this area. They may not be leading, but they certainly aren't trailing, either.
It also depends on how you want to focus your attention. Last I checked, the CR-V was the only off-road vehicle to earn a high marks for pedestrian impacts in European safety tests. IIRC, the CR-V scored higher than the Volvo. Why aren't the others leading instead of following?
A company can only lead in so many areas. If Honda took the best of everything they do and put it into the CR-V, it would cost as much as an X5. Honda is already among the leaders when it comes to emissions control, quality, fuel economy, engines, suspension, ergonomics, manual transmissions, reliability, alternative fuels, value, and other areas. There will always be a niche where someone can surpass them. No company has the resources to be the best at everything.
I don't have a problem with them charging the reasonable option price for the side airbags on the CRV, just as they do on the civic. those who don't want it can save a couple hundred. those who do, pay a couple hundred more.
ABS actively protects not only yourself, but other drivers, pedestrians, etc., in foul weather. it should be standard on every car.
Actually, there is little evidence to support that. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have ABS, too. But the studies conducted by the insurance industry show little real-world benefit to having ABS. Or, at the least, the advantages are countered by the problems with them. I believe many insurance companies have actually removed any discounts for cars with ABS.
Honda has the resources, more so than Subaru, who is 1/10th Honda's size. So yes, it may be unfair, but I do expect more from them.
I bet the pedestrian impact thing was a lucky coincidence. I doubt that influenced the design of the structure.
FWIW, I still get an insurance discount for ABS, except on my Miata, which doesn't have it (it was rare back in '93). It hydroplanes when braking in the rain so I just don't drive it at all in foul weather.
-juice
Honda has built one of the most advanced safety testing facilities in the world:
http://www.world.honda.com/news/2000/c000327.html
As for pedestrian safety, see the following:
http://www.world.honda.com/safety/
Pedestrian safety will become a bigger issue as both the EU and Japan have standards for protecting pedestrians in case of impact with an auto which are tightening - things like higher front ends and concealed wiper arms.
Honda is about 1/10th the size of companies like GM. The fact that they lead in so many areas is quite remarkable, given that they are the smallest of the major players.
As posted by Robr2, the high scores in pedestrian impacts were not a happy turn of fate. Ever wonder why the CR-V's wiper jets are recessed into the hood? Now you know.
Wasjr - I doubt that the 2004 model will have a significant impact on resale fo the 2002. No major changes have been rumored. As for when they come out, I'm expecting late in the year. Probably sometime in November.