But a locked torque converter should be what you want for acceleration at higher rpm -- the locking prevents "fluid losses" that would result.
When the speed is low you want/need the torque multiplication and "engine buffering" that the fluid gives you -- thus a torque converter that does NOT unlock properly when you speed falls below the lock-up point would lead to poor driveability.
I still think that you need to verify that the behavior is not "as designed"...
All Honda automatics downshift when you floor them, unless that would cause you to exceed redline in the lower gear... I have two currently and have owned 7 altogether (just 5 automatics, to be fair). As I stated above, I did a real world test on the way home.. At 50mph, it downshifts to 2nd. At 60mph, downshifts to 3rd. I can't think of any automatic that wouldn't downshift if you floor it.. If the lockup torque converter won't unlock, then something is definitely wrong.
if you're cruising at ~2700-3000 rpm in top gear (which I'm assuming is the situation with the poster) with the torque converter locked, you definitely want it to unlock and downshift to accelerate. the efficiency of the locked torque converter is secondary to the fact that the shift of gears gets the engine into the meat of it's powerband.
Now, in situations where the engine is at 5k and you're trying to accelerate, as you describe, the car probably won't downshift, as the gear below would be above redline. 5k in top gear might even be over the limiter, I'm not sure.
You're first scenario describes my problem exactly.
One additional piece of info is that it will downshift from top gear when I am at lower speeds (ie less than 50mph). Sometimes there is a delay but more often than not it will downshift.
it's the TCC solenoid. The clutch in most lock-up torque converters is hydraulically engaged. This engagement and disengagement can be controlled by a combination of hydraulic valves, pressure switches, electric solenoids, computer signals, etc. Most lock-up converters can be "felt" applying and releasing by cruising at a speed above 50mph at a light throttle setting (not accelerating or decelerating), and gently pushing on the brake pedal (just enough to turn on the brake lights, but not enough to apply the brakes), and releasing the brake pedal SLOWLY. As you push the brake pedal down, you will feel a subtle "downshift", and as you release the brake pedal (sometimes there is a slight delay), you should feel a subtle "upshift". The fact that he can take it out of OD and it will downshift and the fact that it downshifts below 50 mph confirms it in my mind.
agreed. This would be the first thing I would troubleshoot too.
Good Luck, aggie.
ps...I knew you were the one with the problem, I was just responding to rerenov8r's post in reference to your problem. I guess all of the "you's" made it tough to keep straight
Been a while since I posted, but I've enjoyed keeping up. Got almost 20K miles on my manual '02 CR-V. Have taken it in to dealer for minor adjustments a couple of times.
Lingering problems:
1. Getting shifter into Reverse has always been very balky, much more so than my last manual. Is that normal for Honda?
2. I've tried everything I know before asking this: No matter whether the A/C is on or off, no matter what "expensive" or cheap brand of gas I use (regular), no matter that I've changed my air filter, no matter that it's not time yet for a major tune-up, no matter that this vehicle is driven very gently and on-road, no matter whether I drive under 68 mph or over 68 ... my gas mileage sucks, esp. in town.
When car was still under 10K, I got 21 - 23 mpg in town, 24 - 26 on hwy. Not great but acceptable to me. Now I'm lucky to get 20 mpg in town, lucky to get 23 on hwy. Only place I still get good mileage is in the mts. Unacceptable. Is this normal for CR-Vs? Is there anything I can ask dealer to look for? Why is vehicle getting worse mileage than it did new if it's not due for a tune-up and spark/distributor change until well after 30K miles?
Dealer has made it clear that if electronic motherboard doesn't say there's a problem (codes), there's nothing they can look for when I inquire. I think that's BS! Should I bother them some more? Thanks, folks, for any advice.
As they say, YMMV. Your numbers are still kinda close to the EPA's, so I don't think a dealer could investigate unless they were way out of whack, and IMO they aren't.
Edmunds' Tribute got 14-16mpg on some tanks, FWIW.
Are you carrying any extra weight in the car? Do the tires look unevenly worn (indicating possible scrubbing)? Are they inflated properly?
I'm sure you've taken driving habits and your commute into account.
I also have an '02, and the first set of mileage figures you gave seem about the same as mine. I have an auto, which believe it or not, should probably get better highway mileage than yours, due to the lower final drive ratio.. I'm pretty happy with that mileage.. 160 horsepower, and 3400 lbs, and blocky aerodynamics with crappy tires....seems okay to me.. Not sure why your mileage would be getting worse though. Maybe as your engine loosens up, you are flooring it more? I know I am!!
Thanks to robmarch,atexeira, varmint, & kyfdx for your suggestions. Unfortunately, I have already done everything (except have valves checked) you guys suggested, with no improvement. I do not floor the vehicle or "race" it, although I do keep a firm acceleration through the gears. My tire pressure does vary, but is always between 30 - 35 psi, which is where I want it. Tires are wearing evenly.
I'm not driving any differently (except I changed air filter last month) and my mileage is just steadily dropping. I'm about fed up with it. First 23 mpg was my "worst," now it's 19-20 ... what next, 14-15 mpg? That stinks, IMO.
I will ask dealer about valve adjustment, Varmint. Thanks.
"Getting shifter into Reverse has always been very balky, much more so than my last manual. Is that normal for Honda?" Any ideas about what's the problem here? Thanks so much.
I was betting on the air filter how about running a bottle of fuel system cleaner?
and...I've not driven a manual CRV. but, since reverse doesn't have any synchros on most manuals, it can be hit or miss getting into reverse.
It's tough to tell how much poor mileage is due to driving habits, and how much is due to the car, unless you take a long trip and set the cruise control to ~60mph and check it there.
and, I've seen gas mileage differences even between 30psi and 35psi.
Arkydog - You haven't recently installed any exterior accessories, have you? The addition of something like a roof rack or rack attachments can have a negative affect on fuel economy.
Conversely, adding a skid plate may actually improve airflow under the vehicle and help with fuel economy. A few Gen 1 owners reported 1-2 mpg increases after buying one, but my own fuel economy did not change. The new one costs something like $200 bucks and is (IMHO) not a cheap fix. Though it does look pretty spiffy.
Depress your clutch twice before shifting into reverse. All the way to the floor lift all the way to the floor and shift.
My hatchback did the same thing.
As for mileage. Don't get mad at me, but are you sure you're calculating correctly? You know that the estimated range of the CR-V is 321 city and 383 highway? I suggest you try getting that. Take a can of gas with you and see how much you can get out of a tank. I bet you'll be surprised.
I just got 348 miles on my last tank using the A/C for about half of that during mixed driving.
about running your fuel tank empty to check mileage. The reason: on fuel injected vehicles the fuel pump, mounted inside the gas tank, is cooled by the gasoline that surrounds it. Insufficient gas in the tank can allow the pump to overheat. The bad news is that in hot weather, when gasoline returns to the tank from the hot engine (these systems continuously recirculate fuel between the tank and the engine) its cooling capability is diminished, further shortening the life of the pump. Replacing a fuel pump on the typical car can cost $500 or more.
About when did that low fuel warning light come on? I noticed on the '02 it comes on much earlier than the '98. When mine comes on at 270 miles, I just can't bring myself to push it past about 310... I had a couple 340 mile tanks on the '98, but 320 is the best I've done on the '02.
It came on at about 280. I didn't want to wait an hour for gas so I figured I'd drive to a better location.
I wouldn't recommend running the vehicle to empty either but, the can will give you confidence to get the range as advertised. Once you do it a couple of times, keep the tank in the garage. It's silly to have a range of 383 and only use 283. Learn what it's capable of and never worry again.
The most I've gotten from a single tank is 401 miles ('99 5 speed). I was on fumes when I got to the pump and those were almost all highway miles. Typically, I range about 320 miles in the winter and 340 during the summer.
My refuel indicator used to come on with 1/6th of a tank left. I'd go another 40 miles before filling up. Now it only lights up when the fuel gauge is at rock bottom. I guess I trained it to behave the way I want it to.
Yeah, on my '98 it normally wouldn't come on until right at 290-300, so going up to 320 was no big deal.. but now, my '02 comes on at 255-275, and even though I get about the same mileage with it, I find myself stopping at 290-300. I'm going to start stretching it out though.. Wish me luck!! LOL
It is the only real complaint I have. 20K miles and not one single problem.
Just to introduce myself, I've been reading this forum for over a year and a half, lusting over the new CRV's, and unable to afford one. Well now I own one (it's only a 98 version-and I don't even get to drive it). So, I guess its time to register here. I currently have 4 Honda's, and a fifth work vehicle (F150-yuck), so you can guess why its not new- Hint: 2 kids in college, wife, myself, and daily work vehicle. Still dreaming.... Wrascal
- LOVE IT - After owning F*RDS.... I finally got smart and bought a Honda CRV.... My 2002 CRV EX has 45,000 miles and has never gone into be serviced except for normal maint. activities. If my F*RDS had only been trouble free, who knows if I would have ever experienced a Honda. I commute 250 miles/day and enjoy the vehicle. I have the side cladding, fog lights, roof rack, darker tinting, and looking into having larger wheels put on. In 2004 I will begin to look at the Honda Pilot for my wife to replace her 1987 CH*VY ASTRO VAN..... We have become a Honda Family.
icvci - Yes, I've run the tank way down, but usually don't. I calculate gas mileage with every tank. Sorry, but I consider that a more useful standard than seeing if car can reach a distance "within the range" that Honda guesstimates a tank of gas will travel. Talk about wiggle room!!
And thanks, icvci, for clutch reminder -- I have to do that sometimes on my Suzuki, too. Seems when I cut engine off with clutch depressed, it should easily engage in Reverse when I cut it back on, but ... nope, at least not on this Honda.
varmint - No, my roof rack is detachable and I'm complaining only about the gas mileage when it is NOT there (99.9% of the time). Actually, I got about the same hwy. mileage with rack and kayak up there as I usually do without. Mountain mileage was about 5 - 6 mpg better than usual, even with rack and kayak up there. I know some of that improvement has to do with steady hwy. speed and fewer gear shifts, plus mt. mileage is always better, presumably because of the differences in fluid pressure and volume.
I have had my CR-V for 3 weeks now and I need to know how I can add fuel. I am down now to about 1/4 tank & I need to figure out how to add some fuel to my CR-V. Anybody know how?
but here in Minnesota it's cheaper to have the empty tank replaced with a full one than it is to trade. Now if I only knew where to buy full tires.................
Has anyone installed the side steps on the 2003 crv? I'm going to do it myself. There're 12 flange bolts to be installed each side. I just check the underside of the body, only one row of 6 holes each side. Where are the remains, another row of 6 holes?
Has anyone had a leaking windshield problem with their CRV? After a heavy downpour, I noticed a puddle of water on my drivers side all weather mat. The floor under the mat, under the seat,and in front of the back seat were all soaked. I made an appointment with my Honda dealer which happened to be the morning after another heavy rain. The mechanic for Honda ran a hose on my CRV for an hour and could not get it to leak. He first pushed in the "circulate the air in the car " button. He said that this button needs to be on to prevent leaking. It closes the outside vents and keeps the water from coming in. They told me that they have not had this problem with the CRV before but have had it with civics. They gave me a hand out about it and sent me on my way. If I forget to push that button in over night or during a heavy downpour, I risk ruining my interior. Eventually it will get that musty smell...........I'm not at all happy.
Some 1st Gen CR-Vs (1997-2001) had a problem on the passenger side with the weather stripping on the plastic cowling at the base of the windshield not sealing correctly as the cowling aged and warped. The cabin air intake is in that area of the engine compartment, and water could get into the ducting and then leak into the passenger side foot well.
I'm not familiar with the 2002+ CR-Vs. Honda might have moved the intake to the driver's side. Open the hood and see what's located at the rear of the engine compartment just above the driver's foot well. Might be something similar.
Can anyone tell me what to expect as far as the price for the Honda extended warranty they offer at the time you buy a brand new Honda? I will be buying a new 2003 CRV soon and I just want an idea of what to expect. I think I remember the guy offering me it for $1,000 last on my last Honda purchase when I was not interested, I think he said $1,500 at first and when I didn't bite I think he went down to $1,000. The 75K warranty that covers everything, it is actually a Honda warranty not a third party. Also, what about window tint and the basic alarm system (nothing fancy)? Anyone know what I can expect to pay for these items as well, what a good deal would be? I live in AZ if that changes anything?
I have an 'o2 EX and have been through heavy torrents and never had to switch to "recirculate air" to prevent leaks. Ask the "mechanic" where in the manual does it tell you to recirculate air when you see it starts to rain. It could be a onetime deal due to an open window or door as Robmarch says but if it happens again don't take any b.s. from the dealer. If they can't satisfy you go elsewhere or contact Honda.
Loading up the family Friday for our first really big road trip in the CR-V. 48328 to 81230 According to Yahoo - Distance: 1594.2 miles Approximate Travel Time: 24 hours 31 mins.
Going from Waterford MI (48328) to Gunnison CO (81230). Did my vehicle prep last night. Changed the oil (finally found Mobil1 0w-20) and filter. Rotated the tires. What a pain. Actually, the biggest pain was noticing the wife got too close to a curb and damaged the wheel. I was thinking about throwing a K&N air filter in it.
Tonight I'll throw another coat of wax on it, set tire pressures and wash the windows.
Sounds fun. I'm going to Tucson next month but we're flying. Actually, we fly into Phoenix and drive to Tucson. Had to sneak a lil' road trip in there some how!
Yeah, I'm thinking it'll be fun. First big trip with the baby so, we'll learn alot I'm sure. We're in a hurry to get there but, the ride home should be relaxing.
Our little girl sure has it better than I did as a kid. My parents had a black Plymouth Valiant. No air and black vinyl seats. What a sticky combo that was.
I rode in the back of a Buick Electra TWO door, cream vinyl seats, 3 boys in the back. At least I wasn't stuck in the middle. My poor lil' bro is complexed to this day! LOL
Hi...Is there a break in period for the new CRV's. I had heard in the past that for new cars you're supposed to drive under a certain speed for the first 1000 miles or so. Is this still the case and if so what are the rules of breaking in a new car. I just got my CRV EX yesterday
6 hours in a big yellow Bel Aire wagon. My folks and the four of us kids. My little sister and I typically slept on top of the luggage in the back (nevermind car seats). You won't find that happening anymore.
Two week road trip from Lexington, Ky to Florida, down the atlantic coast and back up the gulf coast.. My aunt, uncle, mother, grandmother and 18 year old sister.. I was 11 yrs old. Six of us, five adults, in a '67 Bonneville... Leather and air, though. Best family vacation I ever went on. Except for Grandma's bitching, though. LOL
Comments
Now, that doesn't rule out a problem with the torque converter locking mechanism, so definitely take it in and have it checked out.
When the speed is low you want/need the torque multiplication and "engine buffering" that the fluid gives you -- thus a torque converter that does NOT unlock properly when you speed falls below the lock-up point would lead to poor driveability.
I still think that you need to verify that the behavior is not "as designed"...
regards,
kyfdx
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Now, in situations where the engine is at 5k and you're trying to accelerate, as you describe, the car probably won't downshift, as the gear below would be above redline. 5k in top gear might even be over the limiter, I'm not sure.
You're first scenario describes my problem exactly.
One additional piece of info is that it will downshift from top gear when I am at lower speeds (ie less than 50mph). Sometimes there is a delay but more often than not it will downshift.
Good Luck, aggie.
ps...I knew you were the one with the problem, I was just responding to rerenov8r's post in reference to your problem. I guess all of the "you's" made it tough to keep straight
Lingering problems:
1. Getting shifter into Reverse has always been very balky, much more so than my last manual. Is that normal for Honda?
2. I've tried everything I know before asking this: No matter whether the A/C is on or off, no matter what "expensive" or cheap brand of gas I use (regular), no matter that I've changed my air filter, no matter that it's not time yet for a major tune-up, no matter that this vehicle is driven very gently and on-road, no matter whether I drive under 68 mph or over 68 ... my gas mileage sucks, esp. in town.
When car was still under 10K, I got 21 - 23 mpg in town, 24 - 26 on hwy. Not great but acceptable to me. Now I'm lucky to get 20 mpg in town, lucky to get 23 on hwy. Only place I still get good mileage is in the mts. Unacceptable. Is this normal for CR-Vs? Is there anything I can ask dealer to look for? Why is vehicle getting worse mileage than it did new if it's not due for a tune-up and spark/distributor change until well after 30K miles?
Dealer has made it clear that if electronic motherboard doesn't say there's a problem (codes), there's nothing they can look for when I inquire. I think that's BS! Should I bother them some more? Thanks, folks, for any advice.
Check your tire pressure too.
Good Luck
Edmunds' Tribute got 14-16mpg on some tanks, FWIW.
Are you carrying any extra weight in the car? Do the tires look unevenly worn (indicating possible scrubbing)? Are they inflated properly?
I'm sure you've taken driving habits and your commute into account.
-juice
regards,
kyfdx
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I'm not driving any differently (except I changed air filter last month) and my mileage is just steadily dropping. I'm about fed up with it. First 23 mpg was my "worst," now it's 19-20 ... what next, 14-15 mpg? That stinks, IMO.
I will ask dealer about valve adjustment, Varmint. Thanks.
"Getting shifter into Reverse has always been very balky, much more so than my last manual. Is that normal for Honda?" Any ideas about what's the problem here? Thanks so much.
If that sounds kinky, it wasn't meant to be! LOL
Our 626 was hesitating, we had that service done and it ran like new. It was like we found the missing 40hp or so.
-juice
and...I've not driven a manual CRV. but, since reverse doesn't have any synchros on most manuals, it can be hit or miss getting into reverse.
It's tough to tell how much poor mileage is due to driving habits, and how much is due to the car, unless you take a long trip and set the cruise control to ~60mph and check it there.
and, I've seen gas mileage differences even between 30psi and 35psi.
Good Luck figuring out what's going on
Conversely, adding a skid plate may actually improve airflow under the vehicle and help with fuel economy. A few Gen 1 owners reported 1-2 mpg increases after buying one, but my own fuel economy did not change. The new one costs something like $200 bucks and is (IMHO) not a cheap fix. Though it does look pretty spiffy.
-juice
My hatchback did the same thing.
As for mileage. Don't get mad at me, but are you sure you're calculating correctly? You know that the estimated range of the CR-V is 321 city and 383 highway? I suggest you try getting that. Take a can of gas with you and see how much you can get out of a tank. I bet you'll be surprised.
I just got 348 miles on my last tank using the A/C for about half of that during mixed driving.
regards,
kyfdx
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I wouldn't recommend running the vehicle to empty either but, the can will give you confidence to get the range as advertised. Once you do it a couple of times, keep the tank in the garage. It's silly to have a range of 383 and only use 283. Learn what it's capable of and never worry again.
My refuel indicator used to come on with 1/6th of a tank left. I'd go another 40 miles before filling up. Now it only lights up when the fuel gauge is at rock bottom. I guess I trained it to behave the way I want it to.
It is the only real complaint I have. 20K miles and not one single problem.
regards,
kyfdx
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And thanks, icvci, for clutch reminder -- I have to do that sometimes on my Suzuki, too. Seems when I cut engine off with clutch depressed, it should easily engage in Reverse when I cut it back on, but ... nope, at least not on this Honda.
varmint - No, my roof rack is detachable and I'm complaining only about the gas mileage when it is NOT there (99.9% of the time). Actually, I got about the same hwy. mileage with rack and kayak up there as I usually do without. Mountain mileage was about 5 - 6 mpg better than usual, even with rack and kayak up there. I know some of that improvement has to do with steady hwy. speed and fewer gear shifts, plus mt. mileage is always better, presumably because of the differences in fluid pressure and volume.
Anybody know how?
http://www.suvxccessory.com/xccessory/2003-honda-cr-v.html
Check out the grille guard. The headlight covers would probably change the look considerably too.
Well, fuel prices in Potomac, MD are such that you should first apply for a home equity line of credit...
;-)
-juice
I'm going to do it myself.
There're 12 flange bolts to be installed each side.
I just check the underside of the body, only one row of 6 holes each side.
Where are the remains, another row of 6 holes?
Thanks,
Which one is better for a 2-3 yrs kid?
I'm not familiar with the 2002+ CR-Vs. Honda might have moved the intake to the driver's side. Open the hood and see what's located at the rear of the engine compartment just above the driver's foot well. Might be something similar.
Good luck.
Changing the oil and rotatng the tires tonight.
Check all the fluids, too. Oh, and don't forget gas, if you can afford it! LOL
-juice
Tonight I'll throw another coat of wax on it, set tire pressures and wash the windows.
-juice
Our little girl sure has it better than I did as a kid. My parents had a black Plymouth Valiant. No air and black vinyl seats. What a sticky combo that was.
-juice
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