is getting used to it, when you have it for the first time.. My wife's Acura Vigor was the first car we had with ABS. I was driving on the freeway (in 1994), when the minivan in front of me locked them up, smoke coming off the tires, etc.. I was feathering the brake, trying to keep from locking up the brakes (duh!), and came within a foot of not bumping him in the rear end. That foot cost $1400 in damages. If I had just planted my foot on the pedal, I'm positive I could have stopped ten feet shorter, at least, and I consider myself a very good driver in emergency situations.
Of course, now that every car has it, its easy.. Every time my wife screams, I just slam on the brakes... did I mention that I don't pay attention the way I used to?
Practice in an empty parking lot, preferably on a wet or snowy day, to see how your car/truck behaves.
Once you've mastered it you can do things that even a trained professional cannot - modulate braking to each wheel independently.
Think about it - without ABS, one wheel will lock up before the others. If you pump, you diminish braking power to all four wheels, not just the one that locked up.
So it's basically a weakest link scenario, you can modulate only up until the first wheel skids, then you have no control over it.
ABS can modulate that one wheel, and keep full braking power on the other three.
No skidding, maximized stopping power.
Sorry but no human can match that without ABS, it's just impossible. You'd have to be an arachnoid and have 4 seperate brake pedals.
I am not new to ABS, I had enough experience with this system. In emergency situation, on a slick road ... yes it MIGHT help (better to avoid emergency situations rather that make them STANDARD - if you have a slick road - try to drive more careful). During regular driving - it makes braking less controllable. Generally speaking of these innovations like ABS, airbags, 4WD's and more powerful dynamic cars, etc, - looks like they are all "good things". But, as all we know, people have tendency to turn good things into bad. In other words, all these safety features, which were designed to make driving safer - really spoil people and they start to drive even more recklessly exactly because of having them. I believe, everybody know what I am talking about and I am not a hopelessly conservative retrograde.
Not all ABS is made the same, there have been several generations made by suppliers like Bosch, for instance. Aren't they on generation V or something?
it makes braking less controllable
I disagree, because ABS only engages when you already have a locked wheel. So you can still employ threshold braking and not trigger the ABS, giving up no control whatsoever.
Mercedes has a technology called Brake Assist, which does actually take over and apply full braking pressure when it senses an emergency braking scenario. This system IMO feels very articial in its feedback and might indeed sacrifice some control, though I doubt it would ever cause an accident.
I agree about people taking these things for granted, FWIW.
In 1992, I was driving our 1982 Toytota Corolla at about 40 MPH on a side street, and some bozo pulled out in front of me and then stopped, completely blocking my lane, broadside to traffic. I slammed on the brakes, intentionally locking up the rear wheels, and turned the car to the left, such that it was skidding sideways. At about 10 feet from the other car, I released the brakes and the car (by now going much slower) surged ahead, at which time I locked the brakes again and fishtailed around the front of the other car. The whole thing was over in a few seconds.
I didn't plan any of this, it was automatic - I'd been driving that kind of car (rear drive with normal brakes) for my entire driving experience up to that date.
These days my cars have ABS, and I have to remember to stomp and steer. BTW, I prefer ABS...
At 50,000 miles, I went to SAMS Club and replaced the 4 Bridgestone Dueller tires for my 1999 CR-V EX (AWD) with a set of 4 GoodYear tires. However, I still have the original Bridgestone tire as the spare. All are 205-70R15 tires. If I have a flat on the road, is it safe to use the Bidgestone tire to replace the GoodYear tire to drive to the next service station? Since CRV only kicks in 4WD when it detects slippage, would it cause any problem to the transmission?
No problems at all.. even taking into account tire wear, differences in tread pattern, etc.. using your spare will present no problems, as long as it is the original size.. And, I just did the same thing as you, so I'm following my own advice.. The 4WD system is just not that sensitive.
Well, I know of one owner who purchased tires that were marked with the same size as his original treads, but they turned out to be slightly different. The new tires were a different model, but both sets were made by the same manufacturer.
He ran a combination of these tires for a few weeks, but the RT4WD unit kept over-heating. His dealer noted that the differential unit was very hot. They changed the diff fluid just to be safe and replaced the problematic tires. So far, no negative fall-out.
This is the only person I know of who has experience such a problem. So my advice would be: you should be fine. Just keep an eye on things and document the situation if you start to have a problem.
Playing a bit of catch-up and read at TOV of Honda Canada's 2005 CR-V features....5 speed Auto, 16" wheels'n tires!, new front & rear ends etc. Still wavering between and X-Trail and a CR-V.....if the Nissan had the flat floor and walk-through of the CR-V, that would seal the deal. Conversely, if the CR-V had a proper liftgate and the X-Trail's AWD system, that could swing things in Honda's favour. 5 Speed Auto should make a fairly economical vehicle (fuel-wise) even moreso. 16" wheels/tires are also welcome (CR-V was probably the only player still running on 15's). I don't expect much from the front/rear-end restyles....probably just a new grill, head & tail lights. Wonder if the wheel/tire upsize will mean a new brand of tire? No word on seat upholstery but an update there wouldn't hurt either. Still leaning (well, the wife is) towards a 6-7 seat mini-minivan if anyone cares to bring one out here(Mazda4/Flexa, Edix/Latitude, Corolla Verso), although after driving some logging roads in Northern Ont. in an Aerio this summer, AWD and a bit of ground clearance is looking more attractive. I guess a Highlander with the 3rd seat would be just about ideal, although they're pushing $40K in the great white north. Maybe the next Santa Fe would do it, if they seriously undercut the Highlander, although I haven't seen great fuel economy from Hyundai's V6's.
Varmint, I am a bit confused here, please advise: How would I know that my RT4WD unit kept over-heating? <<His dealer noted that the differential unit was very hot.>> Dealer checked the temperature (how?)just as owner arrived to the dealership? Did dealer made a test drive?
The tires will probably be the same ones used on the Element in our market. The Element already has stock 16" rims.
I doubt very much we'll see a change to the way the liftgate works. I know that many reviewers question it, but too many existing CR-V owners like it.
Another rumor posted on the TOV site mentioned a revision to the AWD system, but I suspect this is only the addition of VSA. The mechanicals will work the same, but the brakes will stop slipping tires from getting all the power.
I don't recall how the owner figured it out. There may have been a smell, or something like that. Despite all my attempts at banging my CR-V over the rocks and through the mud, I've never over-heating one of these. So, I can't speak from personal experience.
The dealer noted the heat when they put the car on the lift. I guess somebody got close to it and could feel the heat radiating from the diff case. They did not stick a thermometer in there, or anything like that.
"(better to avoid emergency situations rather that make them STANDARD - if you have a slick road - try to drive more careful)."
I would equate ABS similar to something like a defensive driving class. You are taking the defensive driving class as much for yourself as well as in defense from the other drivers on the road. ABS is similar. Yes it can come in useful if you are going a bit too fast on a slick road, and you should have been going slower anyway. But it can also come in handy when a driver who is not anywhere near as careful as you makes a clutz manuever right in front of you and you would not have time to slow down without ABS.
Anyway, my guess is that if ABS were not a packaged option that it would end up costing more for the people who wanted it in the first place.
I can't link to the original post/article on the subject, but I just found and reread it. I'll contact the author (a fellah who goes by Wildswing) and see if he'll let me edit and repost it as a new article for the CR-V FAQ thread.
Anyway, here are some of the details...
The driver heard a "whine" when he lifted his foot off the accelerator. It did not happen when accelerating, or braking, just for a moment when he lifted off the accelerator.
The tires were the same brand, same size, AND the same model. While reviewing the ordering sheet for the tires, Wildswing noted that there were three different part numbers for the "same" tire.
The difference in diameter between tires was almost 2 full inches.
I bet the tires on the new 16" rims will be better. A Plus One is 215/60R16, and you usually find H-rated tires in that size, vs. S-rated on the current rims.
Of course they might just use Element tires, which are bigger and would give the CR-V more clearance (and taller effective gearing).
5 speed auto would be a big plus. For mileage and rolling acceleration.
VSA is another big plus. Right now both axles are open, unmanaged, so there are situations where only one wheel on each axle gets power. VSA would double that.
2" is a huge variation, that's incredible. Measure yours and I doubt you'll see nearly that much.
I don't think they will "plus one" it. That would make the tires look smaller than they are now, and increase one of the visual problems the car has now... Not only that, if they plus one, they might have to increase the wheel width to 6.5", although that is less of a problem. I don't think they'll use the Element size either, though they may use the same size wheel... I think you are going to see something in-between, like 215/65-16
It's Murphy's Law, if you run out and buy a 2004, the next day you'll find out the 2005 has a $10,000 price drop and runs on tap water and emits liquid gold exhaust.
A 5 speed auto, 16" rims, and VSA would be big-ticket upgrades, IMO. A little more than a refreshening, perhaps a mid-life-cycle update?
Well... I don't know about big ticket, but substantial... Not enough to sway me from a different car to the CRV, but enough to make me jealous, since I don't have those things on mine.
I say big ticket because there are trickle-down effects.
5 speed auto could be just a tad quicker, or more efficient, perhaps even both. That increases range. Resale would only improve.
VSA makes is safer, but it also gives it more traction for fun purposes, more capability with two managed axles.
16" rims and tires would likely increase ground clearance a bit and probably improve traction, which helps acceleration, handling, and braking. The wider rims and tires could offset any increase in the center of gravity.
I think there might be more than meets the eye, with these 3 upgrades.
Well, let's just be clear that the addition of VSA is a rumor. And, furthermore, the VSA may not include a function to brake spinning wheels. It may only work as a safety device for braking wheels based on yaw rates and such, to prevent rollover.
I've mentioned the possibility of it working as a traction control mechanism because of another rumor about a slight upgrade to the AWD. Some folks have jumped to the conclusion that the CR-V will be getting VTM-4. That system weighs 110 lbs more than RT4WD, so I think that is unlikely.
Okay, so would be likely?
If they are already adding VSA, then why not add a traction control function, as well. It's cheap, doesn't add weight, and would do the job well in combination with the existing RT4WD.
VSA that achieves traction control by braking a spinning wheel and heavier 16" wheels/tires are likely to hurt acceleration.. Perhaps that would be mitigated by the 5-speed automatic. That said, I still want all those things.
I wonder how Honda sorts out this issue - how do RT4WD and VSA interact with each other?
For instance, with Hyundai's AWD/traction control combination, I read that it's either/or, not both. The traction control is in effect with FWD, then when both front wheels spin the AWD acts, but traction control is disabled.
If Honda's system can use both simultaneously, it's smarter and likely more effective.
Yeah.. good question.. considering RT4WD seems to me to be an 'unsophisticated' AWD system in general, I'm guessing the interaction would be fairly basic.. My wife's car has stability control, and if you want the fastest launch from a dead stop, you turn it off (even the owner's manual tells you that).
Well, both systems will disengage when traction is restored.
The only problem that I see is this. In order to allow ABS to function properly, RT4WD will disengage. If VSA engages the brakes to stop a wheel from spinning, will it also shut down RT4WD?
I know that onda has worked this out in the past. CR-Vs in Japan use VSA. I just don't know exactly how.
Seriously, take a tire guage and check your air pressure when done.. and pop the hood and make sure the lids and covers are all down and hooked up.... That's about it.
my experience, and what i have heard from others, is that using brakes for traction control can cause more frequent brake service than you may be used to (wears out the pads). it's not a 'free lunch'.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Thanks for the info. Because SAMS Club does not stock the Bridgestone Dueller H/T tires the mechanic recommended replacing them with Goodyear tires. These are car tires with a bit less payload capacity than the Dueller H/T tires (8 lbs less for each tire) but I am having better riding, better gas mileage, and less road noise. The mechanic told me that because CRV is light, it is not a truck and using car tires would not cause any problem.
Varmint it never occurred to me that 110 lbs would make that much difference in a SUV. I would think a 110 lbs would be no different than carrying one small passenger in the vehicle you.
I would hope that carrying 1-2 people in the CR-V wouldn't be overly taxing on it.
It’s been a while since I posted - figured I’d wait until I had something new to say. I know many of you were sick of hearing about the CRV fires. But I’ve had a close encounter that I want to share.
The day I have been dreading - the day of the first oil change in our ‘04 CR-V - arrived yesterday. I explained to the service manager at the dealership my concerns, and he assured me - when I made the appointment, when I dropped off the truck, and when I picked it up - that they would take care of things, and not to worry.
This morning, I took the CR-V to run a couple of errands. I stopped at a gas station very close to home, started pumping gas, and did my usual walk around the truck to check the tires. When I got near the hood on the passenger’s side, I smelled something - a burnt something. So I popped the hood. There was a small amount of smoke coming from the back of the engine and the underside of the engine, and oil was noticeably dripping from several places.
So, I drove it to the dealer (about 10 miles) and I have to admit that a small part of me wanted to pull up in front of their showroom with smoke billowing out from the engine.
When I got there and explained that the oil had been changed, for the very first time, only yesterday, and that oil was leaking, they tried to pass it off as something that happens from time to time, a small amount of oil must have dripped from the old oil filter when the technician changed it ... but they would take care of it.
I said sure, went inside, and sought out a customer service rep. I told her the story and she went back and raised hell. In the next 15 minutes or so, I had 1) the salesman who sold us the CR-V, 2) the customer service rep, 3) the service manager who I had talked to when I brought the truck in this morning, 4) his boss, and 5) his boss, all apologizing to me.
Turns out - surprise! - that the cause was a double-gasket. Now, this was a Honda dealer, and all the Honda dealers and technicians by this point should have heard of the CR-V fires and should be even more careful than usual. And this was after I had expressed my concerns directly to the service manager before they ever touched the truck.
The “big boss” in their service department was the last one to talk to me. He said he could offer no excuse because there simply was no excuse. He said they train and train, and he knew that each and every technician in there knew how to do a proper oil change, and that they were trained to look up to see if the old gasket was still there, and to look down to make sure the old gasket came off with the filter. I said that I guessed it didn’t work all the time, and he agreed.
I asked him what the cause was, and if technicians were suddenly forgetting how to do an oil change. He said no, that it was a combination of things: the original filter installed in the factory is installed very tightly; the gasket may or may not be properly lubricated; and the heat near the oil filter can “bake” the gasket, making it stick more than usual. The technician is just the last in that chain of events - if he messes up, a fire may result.
He said that you can run into double-gaskets with other cars - it all depends on how much the technician is paying attention. And certainly CR-Vs aren’t the only vehicles ever to catch fire. I asked if he could remember any other car that was this prone to fire after an oil change, and he said no, he couldn’t. He also said that double-gaskets are tricky. They can hold for a while, or leak just a little for a while, or they can just let go at any moment and the oil can gush out of the engine. He said he was glad I had brought it in right away. I replied that I was glad my wife or my daughter hadn’t been driving it, and that I was glad I stopped for gas instead of getting out on I-95 the way I had planned.
I know that there’s no way I can be certain, but I can’t help thinking that we came close today. I also can’t help thinking that whatever Honda did in reaction to ‘03 and ‘04 CR-Vs catching on fire, it wasn’t nearly enough.
That's not Honda the manufacturer's fault. No matter how the gasket sticks, its the tech's job to make sure it's not there when he installs a new filter. Looks like NHTSA and Honda were correct in your case.
That's the dealership and again.. the technician.
If anything, your having a double gasket proves the guy changing the oil is a dip.
the original filter installed in the factory is installed very tightly; the gasket may or may not be properly lubricated; and the heat near the oil filter can “bake” the gasket, making it stick more than usual. The technician is just the last in that chain of events - if he messes up, a fire may result.
The first three things in that chain have manufacturer written all over them.
Interesting threads on "'05s maybes" and ABS/VSA. Not identical, but analagous: our X5 uses that brake one or more wheel(s) deal to control spin. Works fine on flatter surfaces; does Not work on our very steep 4 mile mtn climb to home. They, BMW, get around it by putting in a switch the driver can use to disable the Dynamic Stability Control, effectively shutting off the micro/fast brake rotor "pinches" and turning off the 'puters at each wheel. Thus, one get nail it, or at least power on, and get all four wheels turning and sending power to the ground. It sometimes is the only way we get up,in snow, and using oem 17"s and dedicated snows in place of the summer oem 18s and huge street tires.
On another note, that new oil change horror story is freaking amazing in light of his concern to the Stlr, the publicity,etc. I'll avoid the mfg'r vs "tech" responsibility, but: in 40+ years of DIY oil changes and an occas. quick lube joint, on all kinds of 2 and 4 wheel rides, I've Never seen or experienced a "dbl gasket" fiasco like these CR-Vs have. You cannot make that situ up, lol! But, a serious fly in the soup, regardless of who/why. BR,md
But the fact remains if technician looks and makes sure the old gasket is gone as in does his job...there will be no double gasket. No matter why the gasket sticks, it the techs job to remove it. It's sloppy work if you ask any reasonable person.
Is the problem only for the first oil change? Has anybody had any problems with the subsequent oil changes, or is the problem with the original factory intalled gasket? I survived the 1st oil change at 5000 and am going back in now at 10000 for another change. Any reason to mention anything to the service dept. on the 2nd change?
Yeah, but it's a circular argument - here we have a Honda trained tech and a knowledgeable consumer who reminded the service writer about the issue. And it still happened.
I think there's more that Honda can to do before the CR-V leaves the factory - don't tighten the factory filter so tight, use a different gasket material (or lube), put some shielding in the area - something! Just hoping the tech does it right doesn't seem like quite enough to me.
The Complaints section at the NHTSA has one fire reported August 8th and another customer reported on 8/18 that their dealer had never heard about the first oil change issue. (link)
Like Cybernut04, I have been laying low, but since cybernut04 supported me, I need to support him. Things apparently have not changed.... First, file a NHTSA report. Eventually something will happen.
Second, a quick look through NHTSA complaints on 04's shows about 20 leaks/fires. This is just NHTSA - unknown what the real number is. Anyway, if we just take this number, my calculation shows that statistically if you purchase a 2004 CRV, you have about a 1 of 5000 chance of the car not surviving its first oil change. If we use the ratios from the 03's (NHTSA complaints to actual cases), the ratio is a lot worse - probably 1 of 2000. And this is not counting the "warranty claims". Seems excessive.
Forget for a minute whose fault it is...This is, IMO unconscionable, especially when I read that some dealers still don't know.
Interestingly, some people are complaining to NHTSA about the fires even though they didn't even have fires (I didn't count them). That has to be a first for Honda. One person traded in the car rather than get an oil change (yikes).
I have no idea IF fires happen more often with CRVs than other makes, but for this argument, lets ASSUME they do...
Even if every fire could be prevented by the tech doing his job correctly, it doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with the car. If the gaskets are inferior and prone to sticking, if the gasket lubrication at initial assembly is inadequate, if the design of the filter/engine interface is causing it. If any manufacturing or parts or assembly defect causes these gaskets to stick more often than normal, or if the design of the engine/exhaust routing causes fires to be more prevalent if the gasket fails, then the manufacturer is partially at fault. EVEN IF all fires were preventable by the techs doing their jobs properly.. Techs aren't doctors, and if every time they make a small mistake, the car catches fire and burns up, then something else is wrong.
All that said, I don't know if any of that is the case..
Comments
Of course, now that every car has it, its easy.. Every time my wife screams, I just slam on the brakes... did I mention that I don't pay attention the way I used to?
regards,
kyfdx
(long live ABS)
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Once you've mastered it you can do things that even a trained professional cannot - modulate braking to each wheel independently.
Think about it - without ABS, one wheel will lock up before the others. If you pump, you diminish braking power to all four wheels, not just the one that locked up.
So it's basically a weakest link scenario, you can modulate only up until the first wheel skids, then you have no control over it.
ABS can modulate that one wheel, and keep full braking power on the other three.
No skidding, maximized stopping power.
Sorry but no human can match that without ABS, it's just impossible. You'd have to be an arachnoid and have 4 seperate brake pedals.
That's not marketing, it's fact.
-juice
During regular driving - it makes braking less controllable.
Generally speaking of these innovations like ABS, airbags, 4WD's and more powerful dynamic cars, etc, - looks like they are all "good things". But, as all we know, people have tendency to turn good things into bad. In other words, all these safety features, which were designed to make driving safer - really spoil people and they start to drive even more recklessly exactly because of having them.
I believe, everybody know what I am talking about and I am not a hopelessly conservative retrograde.
it makes braking less controllable
I disagree, because ABS only engages when you already have a locked wheel. So you can still employ threshold braking and not trigger the ABS, giving up no control whatsoever.
Mercedes has a technology called Brake Assist, which does actually take over and apply full braking pressure when it senses an emergency braking scenario. This system IMO feels very articial in its feedback and might indeed sacrifice some control, though I doubt it would ever cause an accident.
I agree about people taking these things for granted, FWIW.
-juice
In 1992, I was driving our 1982 Toytota Corolla at about 40 MPH on a side street, and some bozo pulled out in front of me and then stopped, completely blocking my lane, broadside to traffic. I slammed on the brakes, intentionally locking up the rear wheels, and turned the car to the left, such that it was skidding sideways. At about 10 feet from the other car, I released the brakes and the car (by now going much slower) surged ahead, at which time I locked the brakes again and fishtailed around the front of the other car. The whole thing was over in a few seconds.
I didn't plan any of this, it was automatic - I'd been driving that kind of car (rear drive with normal brakes) for my entire driving experience up to that date.
These days my cars have ABS, and I have to remember to stomp and steer. BTW, I prefer ABS...
Sorry, no.
If I have a flat on the road, is it safe to use the Bidgestone tire to replace the GoodYear tire to drive to the next service station? Since CRV only kicks in 4WD when it detects slippage, would it cause any problem to the transmission?
regards,
kyfdx
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Mark a point in the tire and do a full rotation, maybe two, then measure the distance.
Subaru has a tolerance of 1/4" for extended use. Honda's may be more or less, but use that as a reference.
Of course for temporary use the difference could probably be bigger.
-juice
He ran a combination of these tires for a few weeks, but the RT4WD unit kept over-heating. His dealer noted that the differential unit was very hot. They changed the diff fluid just to be safe and replaced the problematic tires. So far, no negative fall-out.
This is the only person I know of who has experience such a problem. So my advice would be: you should be fine. Just keep an eye on things and document the situation if you start to have a problem.
-juice
No word on seat upholstery but an update there wouldn't hurt either. Still leaning (well, the wife is) towards a 6-7 seat mini-minivan if anyone cares to bring one out here(Mazda4/Flexa, Edix/Latitude, Corolla Verso), although after driving some logging roads in Northern Ont. in an Aerio this summer, AWD and a bit of ground clearance is looking more attractive.
I guess a Highlander with the 3rd seat would be just about ideal, although they're pushing $40K in the great white north. Maybe the next Santa Fe would do it, if they seriously undercut the Highlander, although I haven't seen great fuel economy from Hyundai's V6's.
How would I know that my RT4WD unit kept over-heating?
<<His dealer noted that the differential unit was very hot.>> Dealer checked the temperature (how?)just as owner arrived to the dealership? Did dealer made a test drive?
I doubt very much we'll see a change to the way the liftgate works. I know that many reviewers question it, but too many existing CR-V owners like it.
Another rumor posted on the TOV site mentioned a revision to the AWD system, but I suspect this is only the addition of VSA. The mechanicals will work the same, but the brakes will stop slipping tires from getting all the power.
It's all rumors, though.
The dealer noted the heat when they put the car on the lift. I guess somebody got close to it and could feel the heat radiating from the diff case. They did not stick a thermometer in there, or anything like that.
I would equate ABS similar to something like a defensive driving class. You are taking the defensive driving class as much for yourself as well as in defense from the other drivers on the road. ABS is similar. Yes it can come in useful if you are going a bit too fast on a slick road, and you should have been going slower anyway. But it can also come in handy when a driver who is not anywhere near as careful as you makes a clutz manuever right in front of you and you would not have time to slow down without ABS.
Anyway, my guess is that if ABS were not a packaged option that it would end up costing more for the people who wanted it in the first place.
Drive safe.
Anyway, here are some of the details...
The driver heard a "whine" when he lifted his foot off the accelerator. It did not happen when accelerating, or braking, just for a moment when he lifted off the accelerator.
The tires were the same brand, same size, AND the same model. While reviewing the ordering sheet for the tires, Wildswing noted that there were three different part numbers for the "same" tire.
The difference in diameter between tires was almost 2 full inches.
Of course they might just use Element tires, which are bigger and would give the CR-V more clearance (and taller effective gearing).
5 speed auto would be a big plus. For mileage and rolling acceleration.
VSA is another big plus. Right now both axles are open, unmanaged, so there are situations where only one wheel on each axle gets power. VSA would double that.
2" is a huge variation, that's incredible. Measure yours and I doubt you'll see nearly that much.
-juice
regards,
kyfdx
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I do think they'll have better tires than the Duelers. Hard not to. hee hee
-juice
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A 5 speed auto, 16" rims, and VSA would be big-ticket upgrades, IMO. A little more than a refreshening, perhaps a mid-life-cycle update?
-juice
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5 speed auto could be just a tad quicker, or more efficient, perhaps even both. That increases range. Resale would only improve.
VSA makes is safer, but it also gives it more traction for fun purposes, more capability with two managed axles.
16" rims and tires would likely increase ground clearance a bit and probably improve traction, which helps acceleration, handling, and braking. The wider rims and tires could offset any increase in the center of gravity.
I think there might be more than meets the eye, with these 3 upgrades.
-juice
I've mentioned the possibility of it working as a traction control mechanism because of another rumor about a slight upgrade to the AWD. Some folks have jumped to the conclusion that the CR-V will be getting VTM-4. That system weighs 110 lbs more than RT4WD, so I think that is unlikely.
Okay, so would be likely?
If they are already adding VSA, then why not add a traction control function, as well. It's cheap, doesn't add weight, and would do the job well in combination with the existing RT4WD.
-juice
regards,
kyfdx
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For instance, with Hyundai's AWD/traction control combination, I read that it's either/or, not both. The traction control is in effect with FWD, then when both front wheels spin the AWD acts, but traction control is disabled.
If Honda's system can use both simultaneously, it's smarter and likely more effective.
-juice
regards,
kyfdx
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The only problem that I see is this. In order to allow ABS to function properly, RT4WD will disengage. If VSA engages the brakes to stop a wheel from spinning, will it also shut down RT4WD?
I know that onda has worked this out in the past. CR-Vs in Japan use VSA. I just don't know exactly how.
Any suggestions, thing s to watch out for etc.
Inputs appreciated
Seriously, take a tire guage and check your air pressure when done.. and pop the hood and make sure the lids and covers are all down and hooked up.... That's about it.
regards,
kyfdx
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Not only that, Honda also uses BF Goodrich Touring T/As as original equipment, and they ARE a passenger car tire.
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VSA usually acts on a single wheel. So it might still be compatible and run in parallel with RT4WD.
Brake pads are cheap, FWIW.
-juice
I would hope that carrying 1-2 people in the CR-V
wouldn't be overly taxing on it.
What if payload dropped to 740 lbs? That's about what the Element offers, and an oft-expressed concern among shoppers.
-juice
The day I have been dreading - the day of the first oil change in our ‘04 CR-V - arrived yesterday. I explained to the service manager at the dealership my concerns, and he assured me - when I made the appointment, when I dropped off the truck, and when I picked it up - that they would take care of things, and not to worry.
This morning, I took the CR-V to run a couple of errands. I stopped at a gas station very close to home, started pumping gas, and did my usual walk around the truck to check the tires. When I got near the hood on the passenger’s side, I smelled something - a burnt something. So I popped the hood. There was a small amount of smoke coming from the back of the engine and the underside of the engine, and oil was noticeably dripping from several places.
So, I drove it to the dealer (about 10 miles) and I have to admit that a small part of me wanted to pull up in front of their showroom with smoke billowing out from the engine.
When I got there and explained that the oil had been changed, for the very first time, only yesterday, and that oil was leaking, they tried to pass it off as something that happens from time to time, a small amount of oil must have dripped from the old oil filter when the technician changed it ... but they would take care of it.
I said sure, went inside, and sought out a customer service rep. I told her the story and she went back and raised hell. In the next 15 minutes or so, I had 1) the salesman who sold us the CR-V, 2) the customer service rep, 3) the service manager who I had talked to when I brought the truck in this morning, 4) his boss, and 5) his boss, all apologizing to me.
Turns out - surprise! - that the cause was a double-gasket. Now, this was a Honda dealer, and all the Honda dealers and technicians by this point should have heard of the CR-V fires and should be even more careful than usual. And this was after I had expressed my concerns directly to the service manager before they ever touched the truck.
The “big boss” in their service department was the last one to talk to me. He said he could offer no excuse because there simply was no excuse. He said they train and train, and he knew that each and every technician in there knew how to do a proper oil change, and that they were trained to look up to see if the old gasket was still there, and to look down to make sure the old gasket came off with the filter. I said that I guessed it didn’t work all the time, and he agreed.
I asked him what the cause was, and if technicians were suddenly forgetting how to do an oil change. He said no, that it was a combination of things: the original filter installed in the factory is installed very tightly; the gasket may or may not be properly lubricated; and the heat near the oil filter can “bake” the gasket, making it stick more than usual. The technician is just the last in that chain of events - if he messes up, a fire may result.
He said that you can run into double-gaskets with other cars - it all depends on how much the technician is paying attention. And certainly CR-Vs aren’t the only vehicles ever to catch fire. I asked if he could remember any other car that was this prone to fire after an oil change, and he said no, he couldn’t. He also said that double-gaskets are tricky. They can hold for a while, or leak just a little for a while, or they can just let go at any moment and the oil can gush out of the engine. He said he was glad I had brought it in right away. I replied that I was glad my wife or my daughter hadn’t been driving it, and that I was glad I stopped for gas instead of getting out on I-95 the way I had planned.
I know that there’s no way I can be certain, but I can’t help thinking that we came close today. I also can’t help thinking that whatever Honda did in reaction to ‘03 and ‘04 CR-Vs catching on fire, it wasn’t nearly enough.
That's the dealership and again.. the technician.
If anything, your having a double gasket proves the guy changing the oil is a dip.
the original filter installed in the factory is installed very tightly; the gasket may or may not be properly lubricated; and the heat near the oil filter can “bake” the gasket, making it stick more than usual. The technician is just the last in that chain of events - if he messes up, a fire may result.
The first three things in that chain have manufacturer written all over them.
Steve, Host
Not identical, but analagous: our X5 uses that brake one or more wheel(s) deal to control spin.
Works fine on flatter surfaces; does Not work on our very steep 4 mile mtn climb to home. They, BMW, get around it by putting in a switch the driver can use to disable the Dynamic Stability Control, effectively shutting off the micro/fast brake rotor "pinches" and turning off the 'puters at each wheel. Thus, one get nail it, or at least power on, and get all four wheels turning and sending power to the ground. It sometimes is the only way we get up,in snow, and using oem 17"s and dedicated snows in place of the summer oem 18s and huge street tires.
On another note, that new oil change horror story is freaking amazing in light of his concern to the Stlr, the publicity,etc. I'll avoid the mfg'r vs "tech" responsibility, but: in 40+ years of DIY oil changes and an occas. quick lube joint, on all kinds of 2 and 4 wheel rides, I've Never seen or experienced a "dbl gasket" fiasco like these CR-Vs have. You cannot make that situ up, lol! But, a serious fly in the soup, regardless of who/why.
BR,md
I think there's more that Honda can to do before the CR-V leaves the factory - don't tighten the factory filter so tight, use a different gasket material (or lube), put some shielding in the area - something! Just hoping the tech does it right doesn't seem like quite enough to me.
The Complaints section at the NHTSA has one fire reported August 8th and another customer reported on 8/18 that their dealer had never heard about the first oil change issue. (link)
Steve, Host
Things apparently have not changed....
First, file a NHTSA report. Eventually something will happen.
Second, a quick look through NHTSA complaints on 04's shows about 20 leaks/fires. This is just NHTSA - unknown what the real number is. Anyway, if we just take this number, my calculation shows that statistically if you purchase a 2004 CRV, you have about a 1 of 5000 chance of the car not surviving its first oil change. If we use the ratios from the 03's (NHTSA complaints to actual cases), the ratio is a lot worse - probably 1 of 2000. And this is not counting the "warranty claims". Seems excessive.
Forget for a minute whose fault it is...This is, IMO unconscionable, especially when I read that some dealers still don't know.
Interestingly, some people are complaining to NHTSA about the fires even though they didn't even have fires (I didn't count them). That has to be a first for Honda. One person traded in the car rather than get an oil change (yikes).
Even if every fire could be prevented by the tech doing his job correctly, it doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with the car. If the gaskets are inferior and prone to sticking, if the gasket lubrication at initial assembly is inadequate, if the design of the filter/engine interface is causing it. If any manufacturing or parts or assembly defect causes these gaskets to stick more often than normal, or if the design of the engine/exhaust routing causes fires to be more prevalent if the gasket fails, then the manufacturer is partially at fault. EVEN IF all fires were preventable by the techs doing their jobs properly.. Techs aren't doctors, and if every time they make a small mistake, the car catches fire and burns up, then something else is wrong.
All that said, I don't know if any of that is the case..
regards,
kyfdx
(who got his oil changed Friday)
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