I once was driving on Rock Creek Drive, in DC/MD, and the creek had flowed over and flooded some of the road. You could not even see where the curbs where, no street lines, nothing. Who knows how deep that was.
I did a U-turn and avoided the area entirely. I was in my Miata, which has about zero ground clearance, but I don't think I would have tried that even in my Forester.
I have the SAME problem in my 2001 Honda CRV. I picked it up after an oil change at the dealer and the passenger side interior was SOAKED (this was during the hurricane). I thought they left the window open...WRONG. I drove through the carwash this weekend and it came streaming in under the glove compartment. The Air Conditioner was NOT on. When I got home, I put a towel on the floor, took the garden hose and sprayed the windshield...same thing...SOAKED. I don't have a garage, I need to fix the problem. How do I get to the clogged drain? I made an appointment at the dealer for this week but they act like they never heard of such a thing! Thanks for any help. ntguthrie@yahoo.com
"Saw pictures of CR-Vs crossing a small stream in another forum. I guess the drivers were taking a big risk of messing up their engines?"
That would have been me. I'll see if I can get the video reposted on-line.
And, yes, what I did was very risky. The water was more or less level with the floorboards and moving briskly. I was more concerned with splashing water into the air intake more than quick-cooling the engine block. But either event could spell big trouble in a little Honda.
I got 4 new Yokohama Avid Touring installed on my 02 for 2 weeks now. The road noise becomes noticeable on freeway speed of 50 MPH and more. They are noiser than the OEM Dueler. But they are good tires for the money except the noisy ride.
Do you drive/own a CR-V too? We've been shopping for something perfect for my wife. I was pushing hard for the Tribeca, but she finds too many "sight" problems (front pillars, small back window, etc.) She's kind of settled on the CRV, so I'm wondering what you think.
Oi, that's like poking Juice in the eye! He and I used to butt heads in the old CR-V vs Forester :lemon: threads. (Still do from time to time.) He's a Soob guy.
Yeah, I know he's pretty much in love with his Forester. I see him posting rather regularly over here too. I thought maybe he was moonlighting with a new CR V...
We shopped the Forester too. Not enough back seat space, no side curtain air bags, no traction control.
We looked closely at a CR-V in 2002 when my wife was car-shopping, and I've stuck around in this thread ever since. The "vs." thread is inactive, despite my and varmint's best efforts to debate over every single last detail. :P
I think we ran out of things to argue about. I'm sure he'll disagree. LOL
I had a press fleet Tribeca for 4 days, and really liked it. It's big and not well suited to city driving, to be honest (16 mpg), but it was great for a road trip we took. Good suburbs/trip car (25 mpg).
Visibility is an issue. They need a backup camera option. Some owners install their own sonar device, they say that helps somewhat.
If you can get over that, the interior is a dream, the DVD screen for the kids is massive (9", same as the Ody and bigger than the MDX), the NAV screen is also massive (7"), the seats split 40/20/40, they're heated, the mirrors are heated, AWD is biased to the rear (45/55). It has everything you need in the snow.
The CR-V is boxy and practical, but feels more basic than a Tribeca. Then again, so does the Forester, which is closer in price to the CR-V. Tribeca is closer to the MDX in my opinion, just a tad smaller.
So Subaru takes a smaller, sportier approach in both segments. Question is, is the driving experience more important to you than the interior space? If not, you'll be happier with the CR-V or even a Pilot.
This is on the new Blogs section in Edmunds. Pretty neat, eh? And aftermarket means it's basically universal. So use it on a Tribeca or a CR-V (that spare blocks the view partially).
With 75 miles on the odometer, I must say, I'm very impressed!
I got the dealer to throw in the rubber mats and cargo floor pad, and front mud flaps.
I find the driver ergonomics very comfortable. I like the way it handles, particularily on curves. Plenty of power for my needs. No sign of the dreaded PTTR
And, its PRETTY!!
Tell me, whats the deal with the non-retractable antenna? Is that going to be a problem in the car wash?
My '93 Miata came with a power retractable antennae.
That's so 90's though. My 91 Accord had a power unit as well but I can't think of any vehicle with one now.
As for removing it, it couldn't hurt. It's been at least 10 years since I've driven through a car wash. I recall there being plenty of moving machinery in there that could damage an aerial.
"Also, when was the last time anyone had a retractable antenna??"
The first gen CR-V had a one-piece (non-telescopic) antenna which retracted into the A pillar. :P
Juice mentioned in-glass antennas, but I'm told the reception with these can be somewhat sketchy. The short, stubby antennas used on many european cars are better. Though, it shouldn't be mounted in the middle of the roof (like my MDX) as they get in the way of things placed on the roof rack.
With the baby keeping us busy I haven't had to time to get video set up on-line. But I did find these still photos of the event. The first has me getting my nose into the deeper part of the stream. The second shows me getting to the other bank.
I love the Tribeca! I have spent many hours reading, researching, and learning about it. I have test driven it twice trying to convince my wife what a great vehicle it is. She agrees that the ride is superior, handling is better and the build quality and materials are first rate.
Unfortunately, she sees to many blind spots and limited sight areas for her taste. (Front pillars, rear window to small) Since I will only get to drive it on some weekends and maybe 2x a year on vacation we're probably going to settle on the CR-V--a vehicle with all the safety features we're looking for and better visibility(in her estimation).
I have relied heavily on posters over at the Tribeca forum and am over here to make sure I get the right CR-V.
Large metal bumpers are a thing of the past. Most of the "bumpers" you see on modern vehicles are plastic. Crumple zones are much better at protecting the occupants of the vehicle by absorbing the energy of a crash. Yes, it tends to do more damage to vehicle. But it does less damage to the occupants.
The bumper must be doing something right. My nephew got rear ended by a GMC pick-up truck which was totaled. The rear end of his CR-v sort of folded under a little bit and he drove away. Without really looking you can't even see much damage. The back door closes a little hard and the picnic table doesn't quite fit in any more. The adjuster thought they should tear off the back end and rebuild it. When the insurance company figured out how much that would cost they started looking for replacement pieces from the junk yard. Doesn't really make my brother happy, it's a 2004 and he still owes big $$!
I got hit in back by a Sunfire. It went under the bumper and lifted the rear off the ground momentarily. It pushed the storage trunk up and did other underbody damage but very little of it was visible from the back. No harm to either of us inside the crv.
look at the rear 'bumper' on the cr-v. it only extends beyond the rear hatch by maybe 2 or 3 inches.
In this case size does not matter. Unless of course you don't like the way it looks, which is not the same as the CR-V being an unsafe vehicle because of a small plastic bumper cover.
Juice mentioned in-glass antennas, but I'm told the reception with these can be somewhat sketchy I have integrated antenna on my '01 Galant, never had a problem, really miss that feature on the CR-V. But I guess it varies with manufacturer. The other thing I miss a lot on the CR-V is the 30 sec power memory and intermittent wiper speed. Hopefully Honda will include at least the last one in the next years.
I recently say on another message board that several 2003 V's had air conditioner compressor failures. Honda has not recognized this weakness and costs are near $3000. Has anyone heard of this and is it unique to 2003 or can the rest of us look forward to failures down the road much like the Honda Transmission failures in the '90's? George
That price sounds high. The compressor on my Escort failed and it was $700 for the whole thing, with labor. How did the cost reach $3 grand?
It just doesn't sound right.
Regarding rear-end collisions, aren't they supposed to be developing new rear-impact standards soon? I wonder if there will be tests to go along with it.
I'm not so concerned about the CR-V offering protection, but rather the cost of fixing a 5mph impact when the spare causes damage to the rear glass and hatch.
There was a poster on this very thread that spent $1500 when his daugther (IIRC) had a low-speed accident backing into something.
I was re-ended twice in my 1999 CR-V. Both times the bumper skin had to be replaced and the hard cover I had on my spare tire got scratched. Once I had to replace the muffler as it got pushed forward and bent the plumbing. Neither event required work on any painted body panels or replacement of glass.
Now, according the IIHS tests, the CR-V is very expensive to fix in rear collisions. They're testing with poles and walls. It's a valid test, but they're thinking about parking lot accidents with stationary objects not situations when you get hit by a vehicle.
Basically the RAV4, CR-V, and Forester get aces in all the tests.
IIHS only evaluates the head restraints for rear-end collisions, probably because whiplash is the most common injury. Again, all 3 do well here, with the Forester going a step further with active head restraints.
So they're not evaluating the safety structure in a rear-end collision, at least not yet. The bumper basher is only looking at the expense of repairing a fender bender.
That price sounds high. The compressor on my Escort failed and it was $700 for the whole thing, with labor. How did the cost reach $3 grand?
Apparently the way the Honda compressor fails (perhaps "explodes" is more descriptive) it distributes debris through out the entire A/C system, so that it's significantly more than just a compressor replacement.
He did (of course), but he decided it was not worth it.
$500 deductible, but then when we had a claim our insurance rates went up by $300 per year for the next 3 years. That's how long insurance takes to remove the dreaded "C" from your policy.
So the overall "cost" of a claim would be about $1400, i.e. hardly worth it.
Insurance is not really ideal for minor fender benders. YMMV.
"I recently say on another message board that several 2003 V's had air conditioner compressor failures. Honda has not recognized this weakness and costs are near $3000."
A lot of these incidents have been covered for most of the cost by Honda American, after the warranty had run out. You have to call the HA people, not the local dealer.
I recently say on another message board that several 2003 V's had air conditioner compressor failures. Honda has not recognized this weakness and costs are near $3000. Has anyone heard of this and is it unique to 2003 or can the rest of us look forward to failures down the road much like the Honda Transmission failures in the '90's? George
George, I assume you know how to read since you read those posts. You would have seen that Honda has covered all or partial costs, depending on the mileage. But you have to be pro-active and call Honda America on your own and open a case. How hard can it be to call the number on the back of the owner's manual?
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I saw where other people had air conditioning problems on their 2003 V's. (exploding compressors with lots of costly damage) They were having problems getting Honda to acknowledge a problem and most were dissatisfied with Honda's lack of response. My question was, has any other V owners had similar problems and if so, is it unique to the 2003? I was the owner of a 2000 and now a 2004 and was wondering if there is something I should be concerned about.
Go to the Honda CRV "problems and solutions" thread and in the search function type in "compressor". You will see a lot of past posts- a lot of failures seem to take place around 40, to 70,000 miles. Our 02 V compressor failed at 60,000-neighbors first generation CRV failed a little earlier-Honda mechanics say they are seeing higher than expected failure of these units. Our replacement unit has started to get noisy and knock- going to try to sell before I get another $3000 estimate/diagnosis. Honda's Customer Service appears rather arbitrary as to how they handle these failures-and since dealers to not make any money on "warranty" type work they could care less. It takes some persistence to get past the "No's" to "Maybe" to "out of the goodness of our heart we will pay" some percentage to make you go away. epm1
emp1 Thanks for the input. That is exactly the info. I was looking for. I am wondering if those failures are in very hot climates or is it happening in various climate areas? Honda seems prone to closing their eyes on many problems. I find it interesting that we never or seldom see these things show up on the annual Consumer Report auto stats. Hundreds of Transmissions have failed, sometimes multi times but never seem to show up on any reliability reports. Thanks again. George
"I find it interesting that we never or seldom see these things show up on the annual Consumer Report auto stats. "
Sorry George, but I just don't think that one is true. You mentioned transmissions as an example. However, when I look up my own 2001 TL at CR, the 2000, 2001, and 2002 models all have lower marks for the tranny than other years. Same with the Accord.
Honda never advertises their problems, that's true enough. But they stepped up to the plate for those affected by the tranny issue. Owners were given an extended warranty. When there was a problem with the 2002 CR-V's seat belts, they literally repo'd people cars to get them fixed. They wouldn't risk letting the owner drive the car back to the dealer.
Step back and take a look at what other manufacturers have done when problems arise. I think you'll find that Honda is no less active in getting things done.
What insurance do you have? Sounds good, I may have to switch!
I was on AMEX at the time, I believe, through the Costco Executive Program. They're a low-risk pool, so maybe we got bumped out after that one claim? :confuse:
You are right. I expected to see something that stands out on the CR report. think the Accord Trans. problem was with the V6. The new CR edition scores the 4 cyl only. I wonder why? The 2005 report showed no weakness on '99 Odyssey Trans. but the current report shows poor ratings. Slow to catch up, I guess. I have driven nothing but Hondas since 1984 and try to keep abreast of the weaknesses. I have a friend in AL that had 4 transmissions replaced on his Odyssey. Honda took no responsibility after the first replacement. He had to finally dispose of it with less than 60k miles because he couldn't afford to be without it when being repaired and the constant cost to replace. You couldn't GIVE him another Honda. I'm not a Honda basher but I do think a manufacturer should stand behind a car when there is an obvious weakness in their manufacturing or engineering. Last year my family purchased 5 new autos. Two CR-V's, one Element, One Pilot and a Subaru Baja. I would like to know when we are buying a potential problem. Doesn't that make sense? Thanks for the response and your insight. George
Comments
I once was driving on Rock Creek Drive, in DC/MD, and the creek had flowed over and flooded some of the road. You could not even see where the curbs where, no street lines, nothing. Who knows how deep that was.
I did a U-turn and avoided the area entirely. I was in my Miata, which has about zero ground clearance, but I don't think I would have tried that even in my Forester.
-juice
That would have been me. I'll see if I can get the video reposted on-line.
And, yes, what I did was very risky. The water was more or less level with the floorboards and moving briskly. I was more concerned with splashing water into the air intake more than quick-cooling the engine block. But either event could spell big trouble in a little Honda.
-juice
Do you drive/own a CR-V too? We've been shopping for something perfect for my wife. I was pushing hard for the Tribeca, but she finds too many "sight" problems (front pillars, small back window, etc.) She's kind of settled on the CRV, so I'm wondering what you think.
Thanks,
jdr
front muds, cargo tray, cargo cover, moon roof visor.
congrats on your new V.
We shopped the Forester too. Not enough back seat space, no side curtain air bags, no traction control.
I think we ran out of things to argue about. I'm sure he'll disagree. LOL
I had a press fleet Tribeca for 4 days, and really liked it. It's big and not well suited to city driving, to be honest (16 mpg), but it was great for a road trip we took. Good suburbs/trip car (25 mpg).
Visibility is an issue. They need a backup camera option. Some owners install their own sonar device, they say that helps somewhat.
If you can get over that, the interior is a dream, the DVD screen for the kids is massive (9", same as the Ody and bigger than the MDX), the NAV screen is also massive (7"), the seats split 40/20/40, they're heated, the mirrors are heated, AWD is biased to the rear (45/55). It has everything you need in the snow.
The CR-V is boxy and practical, but feels more basic than a Tribeca. Then again, so does the Forester, which is closer in price to the CR-V. Tribeca is closer to the MDX in my opinion, just a tad smaller.
So Subaru takes a smaller, sportier approach in both segments. Question is, is the driving experience more important to you than the interior space? If not, you'll be happier with the CR-V or even a Pilot.
-juice
http://automobiles.honda.com/element/index.aspx
Play the game, it's pretty hilarious.
-juice
This is on the new Blogs section in Edmunds. Pretty neat, eh? And aftermarket means it's basically universal. So use it on a Tribeca or a CR-V (that spare blocks the view partially).
-juice
With 75 miles on the odometer, I must say, I'm very impressed!
I got the dealer to throw in the rubber mats and cargo floor pad, and front mud flaps.
I find the driver ergonomics very comfortable.
I like the way it handles, particularily on curves. Plenty of power for my needs.
No sign of the dreaded PTTR
And, its PRETTY!!
Tell me, whats the deal with the non-retractable antenna? Is that going to be a problem in the car wash?
You should be able to unscrew the antenna for going through the car wash.
Steve, Host
Only if you leave it on. Take the time to remove with when going through car washes.
Also, when was the last time anyone had a retractable antenna??
Not sure why people tell others to remove it when the manufacturer doesn't recommend it.
I imagine it won't do any harm but it is not necessary. Ever seen how the antenna bends when you're driving 55+ mph? It can handle a car wash. YMMV
Nowadays they should be integrated in the glass, totally seamless.
-juice
That's so 90's though.
As for removing it, it couldn't hurt. It's been at least 10 years since I've driven through a car wash. I recall there being plenty of moving machinery in there that could damage an aerial.
The first gen CR-V had a one-piece (non-telescopic) antenna which retracted into the A pillar. :P
Juice mentioned in-glass antennas, but I'm told the reception with these can be somewhat sketchy. The short, stubby antennas used on many european cars are better. Though, it shouldn't be mounted in the middle of the roof (like my MDX) as they get in the way of things placed on the roof rack.
-juice
Unfortunately, she sees to many blind spots and limited sight areas for her taste. (Front pillars, rear window to small) Since I will only get to drive it on some weekends and maybe 2x a year on vacation we're probably going to settle on the CR-V--a vehicle with all the safety features we're looking for and better visibility(in her estimation).
I have relied heavily on posters over at the Tribeca forum and am over here to make sure I get the right CR-V.
Thanks for the input.
jdr
Not trying to turn you away from the CR-V (I loved mine), but there are other alternatives.
Large metal bumpers are a thing of the past. Most of the "bumpers" you see on modern vehicles are plastic. Crumple zones are much better at protecting the occupants of the vehicle by absorbing the energy of a crash. Yes, it tends to do more damage to vehicle. But it does less damage to the occupants.
JM2C
In this case size does not matter. Unless of course you don't like the way it looks, which is not the same as the CR-V being an unsafe vehicle because of a small plastic bumper cover.
JM2C
I have integrated antenna on my '01 Galant, never had a problem, really miss that feature on the CR-V. But I guess it varies with manufacturer. The other thing I miss a lot on the CR-V is the 30 sec power memory and intermittent wiper speed. Hopefully Honda will include at least the last one in the next years.
George
It just doesn't sound right.
Regarding rear-end collisions, aren't they supposed to be developing new rear-impact standards soon? I wonder if there will be tests to go along with it.
I'm not so concerned about the CR-V offering protection, but rather the cost of fixing a 5mph impact when the spare causes damage to the rear glass and hatch.
There was a poster on this very thread that spent $1500 when his daugther (IIRC) had a low-speed accident backing into something.
-juice
Now, according the IIHS tests, the CR-V is very expensive to fix in rear collisions. They're testing with poles and walls. It's a valid test, but they're thinking about parking lot accidents with stationary objects not situations when you get hit by a vehicle.
Basically the RAV4, CR-V, and Forester get aces in all the tests.
IIHS only evaluates the head restraints for rear-end collisions, probably because whiplash is the most common injury. Again, all 3 do well here, with the Forester going a step further with active head restraints.
So they're not evaluating the safety structure in a rear-end collision, at least not yet. The bumper basher is only looking at the expense of repairing a fender bender.
-juice
Apparently the way the Honda compressor fails (perhaps "explodes" is more descriptive) it distributes debris through out the entire A/C system, so that it's significantly more than just a compressor replacement.
IIHS Frontal: Best Pick vs. Average
IIHS Side: Good vs. Poor (Good only with optional SA)
IIHS Head Restraing: Good vs. Good/Average (depends on model)
Escape fares better in the bumper basher but I think everyone can agree these safety tests are far more important.
-juice
Yep I'm aware that high cost to repair could drive up the cost to insure the vehicle etc.
My motto: Have insurance (I'm pretty sure it's law in most States) and then you won't care about what it costs to fix.
$500 deductible, but then when we had a claim our insurance rates went up by $300 per year for the next 3 years. That's how long insurance takes to remove the dreaded "C" from your policy.
So the overall "cost" of a claim would be about $1400, i.e. hardly worth it.
Insurance is not really ideal for minor fender benders. YMMV.
-juice
A lot of these incidents have been covered for most of the cost by Honda American, after the warranty had run out. You have to call the HA people, not the local dealer.
George
George, I assume you know how to read since you read those posts. You would have seen that Honda has covered all or partial costs, depending on the mileage. But you have to be pro-active and call Honda America on your own and open a case. How hard can it be to call the number on the back of the owner's manual?
(exploding compressors with lots of costly damage)
They were having problems getting Honda to acknowledge a problem and most were dissatisfied with Honda's lack of response. My question was, has any other V owners had similar problems and if so, is it unique to the 2003? I was the owner of a 2000 and now a 2004 and was wondering if there is something I should be concerned about.
Thanks for the input. That is exactly the info. I was looking for. I am wondering if those failures are in very hot climates or is it happening in various climate areas?
Honda seems prone to closing their eyes on many problems. I find it interesting that we never or seldom see these things show up on the annual Consumer Report auto stats. Hundreds of Transmissions have failed, sometimes multi times but never seem to show up on any reliability reports. Thanks again.
George
Sorry George, but I just don't think that one is true. You mentioned transmissions as an example. However, when I look up my own 2001 TL at CR, the 2000, 2001, and 2002 models all have lower marks for the tranny than other years. Same with the Accord.
Honda never advertises their problems, that's true enough. But they stepped up to the plate for those affected by the tranny issue. Owners were given an extended warranty. When there was a problem with the 2002 CR-V's seat belts, they literally repo'd people cars to get them fixed. They wouldn't risk letting the owner drive the car back to the dealer.
Step back and take a look at what other manufacturers have done when problems arise. I think you'll find that Honda is no less active in getting things done.
I was on AMEX at the time, I believe, through the Costco Executive Program. They're a low-risk pool, so maybe we got bumped out after that one claim? :confuse:
-juice
The 2005 report showed no weakness on '99 Odyssey Trans. but the current report shows poor ratings. Slow to catch up, I guess.
I have driven nothing but Hondas since 1984 and try to keep abreast of the weaknesses. I have a friend in AL that had 4 transmissions replaced on his Odyssey. Honda took no responsibility after the first replacement. He had to finally dispose of it with less than 60k miles because he couldn't afford to be without it when being repaired and the constant cost to replace. You couldn't GIVE him another Honda. I'm not a Honda basher but I do think a manufacturer should stand behind a car when there is an obvious weakness in their manufacturing or engineering.
Last year my family purchased 5 new autos. Two CR-V's, one Element, One Pilot and a Subaru Baja. I would like to know when we are buying a potential problem. Doesn't that make sense?
Thanks for the response and your insight.
George