I would actually be disappointed if Honda caved into the pressure and dropped the 4 cyl. in favor of a 6. While a V6 is nice for effortless power, I would miss the spunkiness and fuel economy of the I4. Save the V6 for the Pilot.
When I wrote the question, I wasn't thinking of things like the 5MT or sunroof. I was thinking of the more unique stuff like the hand brake, picnic table, seating position, and whatnot. But I would be miffed if Honda stopped offering a manual.
I'd miss the rear glass that opens independently. I use that all the time for my dogs. It lets me give them direct access to air when we have to make a pit stop.
And as much as our Ford friends like to goof on it, the side-swinging door is also great for dog owners. I've watched many a dog get loose at a highway rest stop because the owner opened the lift gate on a van or SUV and the beast scooted under it before anyone could grab 'em. No such problem with the side gate. But I'd still miss the glass more.
You know, I don't know if I would miss that feature too much... I can see how it would come in handy, but from my experience would only see minamal usage. I would actually rather see Honda move the spare (full size of course) to be under the load floor. I can understand it was difficult before with the gas tank and the RT4WD system in the way but maybe with the next gen a more compact system will be incorporated (SH-AWD maybe?) :shades:
I was never bothered by the swinging door, having the glass separate was an advantage though especially compared to the barn door on the back of the RAV4...
I'm considering the CRV but would like some details on how the somewhat-odd dashboard-mounted auto transmission shift lever works.
Does it work like the old-style steering column shifters - that is, do you have to move it to the side each time you want to move it up or down?
Or, does it work more like a floor-mounted auto shift lever works - that is, once you get to the neutral position, does it move directly to the next position without any "side-to-side" movement?
Example: I'm moving down the road in drive. To get to neutral, do I have to 1. move shift handle to left, then 2. move it up from "D" to "N", and then 3. move it to the right to "lock it in position" -or- Do I just give it an upward push to go DIRECTLY into neutral?
Same for going from "N" to "D"....?
Over the years, I've developed my own "driving style". As I'm coming to a stop, I like to just "drop to neutral" by pushing the shift lever forward (on my current floor-mounted shift lever). When it's time to move, I just pull it back to drive. Almost as if I were "shifting" without a clutch, between "D" and "N".
The other vehicle I'm considering (Toyota RAV) will do this as a matter of course, as it has the traditional floor-mounted Auto shift lever.
But if the CRV (which I've not yet test-driven) works like a column shifter, I'd have to give up my driving style, which has coaxed 297,000 miles on my 93 Acura Integra which still does not use oil between changes. Not sure if I want to do that....
I'd miss the 5-speed auto in my '05. I avged 31.6 on one tankful through upstate NY mountains and credit the cruise control plus 5-sp auto for part of that.
But since I don't think that will be dropped in '07 --
I, too, like the side opening tail gate with opening window. It's come in handy on trips to Home Depot and, when I'm a little sore in the back, it's easy to take the kayak home inside the car.
I also like the handy, concealed storage area where the spare would go if it weren't mounted externally.
I wouldn't miss the design of the door pockets. I'm not sure what the heck the top one is for, since it doesn't have a bottom. The lower pocket is deep and skinny and, just to make it harder to fish stuff out of it, has a lip that curves back toward the door. Of course, there are plenty of other cubby holes in the cabin.
I know the owner's manual for the '02 specifically mentions that the auto shifter can be used to manually shift. Don't know if they changed it in subsequent manuals.
I understand about the strain it puts on the transmission and how the brakes are cheaper to replace but if Honda recommends it I don't think it will do harm (as long as it's not abused). YMMV.
I haven't driven the 5 speed AT so I can't say for sure but on the 4 speed AT model you can do what you describe. You do have to move the gear shift slightly to the left but it's no big deal. Whether you want to do it is up to you but it can be done pretty easily. Test drive one to be sure.
If you really want to shift for yourself why don't you just buy the manual transmission. What is the point of paying more for an auto if you want to shift it yourself? 99.9% of the time you would be better off in D in an auto tranny than trying to pick the gears yourself, unless you tow a lot and need to lock out the overdrive gear(s) in order to go up and down hills. Otherwise you are whizzing up the proverbial rope.
All of that being said, I've never heard of any car with an auto that couldn't be held in one of the gear selections manually. Just never had any real reason to do so.
The best thing about the CR-V to me is that you actually can buy it with a MANUAL transmission. Try finding another SUV with AWD and a manual, they are hard to come by. (BMW X3 is one)
I think a couple of people misinterpreted the original post. Shifting from "D" to "N" and back again is what they were asking. That is a little different than manually shifting throught the auto tranny's gears, IMHO.
As for why someone should buy a manual if they really want to shift. Maybe other family members will need to drive the vehicle (even if only in an emergency) and they might not know how to operate a manual tranny.
And as hard as it was for you to find an SUV with AWD and a manual option, that's how hard it could be to sell the vehicle when or if the time comes. With more than 92% of the US driving population using auto trannies, the resale pool is pretty small. YMMV.
True, you do take a hit on the trade and resale with the manual, but you also pay less up front. Finding someone else who is willing to shift there own gears in hard to do so it will probably take longer to find a buyer for my 2001 Audi A4. Still, I much prefer to shift my own gears, and will insist that everyone in my family learn how to drive a car with a manual.
Pretty far fetched about the emergency, but take it a step further and say your kid (or parent) is on a camping trip deep in the wilderness without cell phone coverage and the person who drove is severely injured and incapacitated. They need to be driven out to safety. Oops, their car is a manual and your kid/parent doesn't know how to drive it. I guess they all die there waiting for rescue.
Ok, very unlikely, but I just can't imagine not knowing how to drive a manual transmission.
I know most folks would rather talk on the phone or put on makeup or eat instead of actually drive their car, but I think it is much more fun to drive a manual and am very proud of Honda for at least offering it in the CR-V.
I agree that the table is not the most useful utility unless you go camping as a religion.
The opening glass is definitely a plus especially loading very long items. You don't want to be driving with the rear door open! I have a 2000 CR-V and it definitely comes in handy.
I'm interested i getting a Honda Pilot, so I was wondering how's the MDX? Recommended?
I would highly recommend the MDX. Even into it's 5th model year it is still a competitive offering against the likes of the ML350, X5 3.0, Highlander Lim., etc... Some will complain the interior is not up to snuff for the $$$ but as far as ergonomics go, it's spot on.
I would recommend the Pilot as well. I do notice some drivability differences between the 2. The Pilot is not as quiet due to it's boxier shape, and I think the handling isn't as crisp. I believe up until this year it has been mated to a 4 speed auto rather than the X's 5 speeder, as well as a de-tuned 3.5l motor. The nav screen is an inch smaller than the X but the rear seating is more "livable". A loaded Pilot without nav/RES goes for something like 33k which puts it into MDX base territory without nav or RES (along with a few other features found in the Touring model)
Also noted in my area we have 4 Honda dealers and 1 Acura dealer. I bought the MDX because the 1 dealer was better to work with than any of the Honda dealers and I also have the advantage of 4/50 warranty with loaner. I found that to be worth the price difference.
Sounds like you need to come up with a book on the many ways of the CRV picnic table! I never used mine once, so I guess I fall into the category of forgetting it was there...
Anyway... If you get creative, there are plenty of uses for the table. If people remembered it more often, it would get used.
A few years back I moved from Indianapolis to Rochester, NY (I'm now back in Indiana). The movers picked up my furniture a few days before I was able to leave Indiana due to work. For those few days I slept on an air mattress with a sleeping bag, lived out of a suitcase, and ate and worked off the CR-V's table and a folding chair. It was perfect.
True, you do take a hit on the trade and resale with the manual, but you also pay less up front. Finding someone else who is willing to shift there own gears in hard to do so it will probably take longer to find a buyer for my 2001 Audi A4. Still, I much prefer to shift my own gears, and will insist that everyone in my family learn how to drive a car with a manual.
Pretty far fetched about the emergency, but take it a step further and say your kid (or parent) is on a camping trip deep in the wilderness without cell phone coverage and the person who drove is severely injured and incapacitated. They need to be driven out to safety. Oops, their car is a manual and your kid/parent doesn't know how to drive it. I guess they all die there waiting for rescue.
Ok, very unlikely, but I just can't imagine not knowing how to drive a manual transmission.
I know most folks would rather talk on the phone or put on makeup or eat instead of actually drive their car, but I think it is much more fun to drive a manual and am very proud of Honda for at least offering it in the CR-V.
I am with you. Manuals are fun and I can't imagine anyone with a little bit of coordination not being able to drive stick. And if family emergency is the only reason to get auto, why not teach family members to drive stick. It is not rocket science, which can be taught as well. Unless the person really can't chew gum and walk at the same time. In that case, I don't think they should be driving.
As far as losing on resale. There are people who are desperatley searching for used manual vehicles. I know of one on the other board, who was looking for Gen 1 EX with stick and had hardest time finding anyone willing to sell it. People who had it would not sell it, and the rest were auto's or LX's.
Sometimes people forget than when they are behind the wheel, their main job is to drive, talking, eating, listenning to the radio are all secondary. Shifting becomes automatic after a week or two. Maybe they are affraid of expanding energy???
I agree that everyone who can drive in the family should at least be able to drive a manual transmission just in case of an emergency.
I definitely prefer a manual just because you can determine when you need more or less power for the driving situation. Also a manual doesn't require the use of your radiator, thus your radiator can be more efficiently cool your engine instead. Manuals also, on the average, save more gas than autos, however autos are very close nowadays. You can also throw a manual tranny in neutral when going down hill to save gas. And lastly, it's just more fun!!!
I had a manual Civic once upon a time. had never driven a stick before but was assured I would learn it, it would become second nature, etc. Well, I had lessons, I was taught, but I never got good at it. I mean, I could drive my car around town with only the occasional stall at a traffic light, but it never became second nature and there were some things that I always did improperly (for instance, I never ever downshifted - just could not get the hang of that - I would just put the clutch in as I decelerated and then, when I was ready to accelerate again, I would basically "upshift" to whatever gear was right).
Yet I drive an automatic just fine. I mean, not with any unusual amount of skill, but I don't have any problems either.
So, while I think it's good for everyone to learn to drive a stick, I don't necessarily think everyone will be able to do it, really. (I had my car for almost a year.)
At least I know never to take up, you know, flying airplanes.
I should mention, I did enjoy driving the stick. I thought shifting gears was fun. But when I got back into an automatic, it was just so relaxing. I can't see going back.
My wife and I both drive manuals - when driving an automatic I find myself instinctively reaching for the clutch and shifter!
I have to laugh - last week I was driving a loaner from the VW dealer. It was an auto Passat. I had to panic stop and instinctively slammed both feet to the floor. I thought I broke my left ankle.
None of the dealers in my area (Long Island) has a CR-V w/MT that I can test-drive. I have owned & driven other Honda vehicles - a Civic & 2 Accords - all with sticks. If the shift/clutch feel in the CR-V is the same, more or less, as it is in other Hondas, I'll be quite happy. Can anyone who has driven an MT CR-V &, say, a recent vintage MT Accord tell me if this is indeed the case? Thanks in advance for your observations.
I've driven 5MT CR-V from both generations (I own an old one) and can report that they're very similar. However, I haven't driven a 5MT Accord in a very long time.
I can tell you the throw is slightly longer than the Accord. The clutch engages a little high in the pedal stroke. That's common with all Honda's.
You might have better luck finding a 5MT Element to test drive. Although I haven't driven one, the feel should be pretty much the same as a CR-V.
"when driving an automatic I find myself instinctively reaching for the clutch and shifter!"
I have the same situation. I was driving another 04 EX V - same color - which a friend has. We decided to take her AT up to a honda meet in CT - about 7 hrs drive. I constantly was waving my hand around, reaching for the shift - it was pretty funny as she noticed from the passenger seat. I also do the same when visiting my parents and driving their new Camry AT. Geesh. When I switched from an Accord MT to an Accord AT, I thought I was going to fall asleep. So, back to an MT when I purchased the V.
It makes a difference who is teaching you to drive MT. My Dad only let my sisters and I drive the only Datsun B210 when we were learning and after we had our permits and new licenses. He is a very patient guy, over and over reinforced what to do. I'm sure he had whiplash from us each driving that thing.
My significant other has a 2002 Civic Coupe 5 speed, which I drive occasionally. I'll repeat what varmint said: the throw is longer in the CR-V. The clutch in the Civic also feels a little smoother ("like butter" as my SO likes to say) than the CR-V, although that may just be the difference in mileage between the 30,000 miles on the 2002 Civic and and the 75,000 miles on the 1999 CR-V 5 speed.
None of the dealers in my area (Long Island) has a CR-V w/MT that I can test-drive. I have owned & driven other Honda vehicles - a Civic & 2 Accords - all with sticks. If the shift/clutch feel in the CR-V is the same, more or less, as it is in other Hondas, I'll be quite happy. Can anyone who has driven an MT CR-V &, say, a recent vintage MT Accord tell me if this is indeed the case? Thanks in advance for your observations.
I test drove the 2002 Accord 5 spd before buying my 2002 Civic Si, and it had a very buttery shifter. It was very short and you could literally flick it with your fingers. Neither Si nor the CR-V are as smooth. They are better than the Ford sticks, and better or as good as BMW sticks.
CR-V has a very low first gear, which I got used to in the Si. So, none of that "slamming into first while rolling" business. Even if you are going 5-10 mph, you can not get it into the first without rev matching. It is very crisp and precise, and the clutch is buttery and smooth.
"CR-V has a very low first gear, which I got used to in the Si. So, none of that "slamming into first while rolling" business."
Ah, yes. That's very true. I've gotten so accustomed to that I didn't think to mention it. You pretty much have to be a complete stop to work it into first.
I've owned a 94 Accord EX 5sp.....put 248,000 miles on it with original clutch! Also had a 02 CR-V EX 5sp. Slightly longer shifts.....still Honda precise and smooth. Now have 04 CR-V EX auto........my wife wanted an auto(after 02 was totaled) In the CR-V.....manual is FAR more fun to drive.....I don't like the 'hesitation' the auto gives you
Comments
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Steve, Host
Oh wait, it was assembled by Ford....
Steve, Host
-juice
I'd miss the rear glass that opens independently. I use that all the time for my dogs. It lets me give them direct access to air when we have to make a pit stop.
And as much as our Ford friends like to goof on it, the side-swinging door is also great for dog owners. I've watched many a dog get loose at a highway rest stop because the owner opened the lift gate on a van or SUV and the beast scooted under it before anyone could grab 'em. No such problem with the side gate. But I'd still miss the glass more.
I was never bothered by the swinging door, having the glass separate was an advantage though especially compared to the barn door on the back of the RAV4...
I'm considering the CRV but would like some details on how the somewhat-odd dashboard-mounted auto transmission shift lever works.
Does it work like the old-style steering column shifters - that is, do you have to move it to the side each time you want to move it up or down?
Or, does it work more like a floor-mounted auto shift lever works - that is, once you get to the neutral position, does it move directly to the next position without any "side-to-side" movement?
Example: I'm moving down the road in drive. To get to neutral, do I have to
1. move shift handle to left, then
2. move it up from "D" to "N", and then
3. move it to the right to "lock it in position"
-or-
Do I just give it an upward push to go DIRECTLY into neutral?
Same for going from "N" to "D"....?
Over the years, I've developed my own "driving style". As I'm coming to a stop, I like to just "drop to neutral" by pushing the shift lever forward (on my current floor-mounted shift lever). When it's time to move, I just pull it back to drive. Almost as if I were "shifting" without a clutch, between "D" and "N".
The other vehicle I'm considering (Toyota RAV) will do this as a matter of course, as it has the traditional floor-mounted Auto shift lever.
But if the CRV (which I've not yet test-driven) works like a column shifter, I'd have to give up my driving style, which has coaxed 297,000 miles on my 93 Acura Integra which still does not use oil between changes. Not sure if I want to do that....
Thanks,
- John
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
But since I don't think that will be dropped in '07 --
I, too, like the side opening tail gate with opening window. It's come in handy on trips to Home Depot and, when I'm a little sore in the back, it's easy to take the kayak home inside the car.
I also like the handy, concealed storage area where the spare would go if it weren't mounted externally.
I wouldn't miss the design of the door pockets. I'm not sure what the heck the top one is for, since it doesn't have a bottom. The lower pocket is deep and skinny and, just to make it harder to fish stuff out of it, has a lip that curves back toward the door. Of course, there are plenty of other cubby holes in the cabin.
You dog, you!
I understand about the strain it puts on the transmission and how the brakes are cheaper to replace but if Honda recommends it I don't think it will do harm (as long as it's not abused). YMMV.
I mean.. sure... I shifted my mother's '72 Lincoln like crazy.. but, I still wouldn't recommend it...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
All of that being said, I've never heard of any car with an auto that couldn't be held in one of the gear selections manually. Just never had any real reason to do so.
The best thing about the CR-V to me is that you actually can buy it with a MANUAL transmission. Try finding another SUV with AWD and a manual, they are hard to come by. (BMW X3 is one)
Good luck
2. They don't recline that much!
As for why someone should buy a manual if they really want to shift. Maybe other family members will need to drive the vehicle (even if only in an emergency) and they might not know how to operate a manual tranny.
And as hard as it was for you to find an SUV with AWD and a manual option, that's how hard it could be to sell the vehicle when or if the time comes. With more than 92% of the US driving population using auto trannies, the resale pool is pretty small. YMMV.
Pretty far fetched about the emergency, but take it a step further and say your kid (or parent) is on a camping trip deep in the wilderness without cell phone coverage and the person who drove is severely injured and incapacitated. They need to be driven out to safety. Oops, their car is a manual and your kid/parent doesn't know how to drive it. I guess they all die there waiting for rescue.
Ok, very unlikely, but I just can't imagine not knowing how to drive a manual transmission.
I know most folks would rather talk on the phone or put on makeup or eat instead of actually drive their car, but I think it is much more fun to drive a manual and am very proud of Honda for at least offering it in the CR-V.
The opening glass is definitely a plus especially loading very long items. You don't want to be driving with the rear door open! I have a 2000 CR-V and it definitely comes in handy.
I'm interested i getting a Honda Pilot, so I was wondering how's the MDX? Recommended?
Tailgating prior to a Dave Matthews concert.
I've used it as a place for rags, sponges, spray bottles, and such when washing the car. (Don't want your sponge getting dirt or other grit in there.)
Any time I work on the vehicle, it serves as a bench. (Got dozens of scratch marks from when I installed leather seats.)
Family cookouts.
Yeah I've used it camping, too.
Wrapping the gift my wife bought on the way to a friend's wedding shower.
Shade for my sister's toddler. Also a changing station.
Sorting the wild flowers my wife picked on a trip through maine.
I've even used it as a gate to prevent my hounds from escaping a fenced in ball field.
Anyway... If you get creative, there are plenty of uses for the table. If people remembered it more often, it would get used.
I would recommend the Pilot as well. I do notice some drivability differences between the 2. The Pilot is not as quiet due to it's boxier shape, and I think the handling isn't as crisp. I believe up until this year it has been mated to a 4 speed auto rather than the X's 5 speeder, as well as a de-tuned 3.5l motor. The nav screen is an inch smaller than the X but the rear seating is more "livable". A loaded Pilot without nav/RES goes for something like 33k which puts it into MDX base territory without nav or RES (along with a few other features found in the Touring model)
Also noted in my area we have 4 Honda dealers and 1 Acura dealer. I bought the MDX because the 1 dealer was better to work with than any of the Honda dealers and I also have the advantage of 4/50 warranty with loaner. I found that to be worth the price difference.
Nothing the aftermarket can't address.
-juice
A few years back I moved from Indianapolis to Rochester, NY (I'm now back in Indiana). The movers picked up my furniture a few days before I was able to leave Indiana due to work. For those few days I slept on an air mattress with a sleeping bag, lived out of a suitcase, and ate and worked off the CR-V's table and a folding chair. It was perfect.
Pretty far fetched about the emergency, but take it a step further and say your kid (or parent) is on a camping trip deep in the wilderness without cell phone coverage and the person who drove is severely injured and incapacitated. They need to be driven out to safety. Oops, their car is a manual and your kid/parent doesn't know how to drive it. I guess they all die there waiting for rescue.
Ok, very unlikely, but I just can't imagine not knowing how to drive a manual transmission.
I know most folks would rather talk on the phone or put on makeup or eat instead of actually drive their car, but I think it is much more fun to drive a manual and am very proud of Honda for at least offering it in the CR-V.
I am with you. Manuals are fun and I can't imagine anyone with a little bit of coordination not being able to drive stick. And if family emergency is the only reason to get auto, why not teach family members to drive stick. It is not rocket science, which can be taught as well. Unless the person really can't chew gum and walk at the same time. In that case, I don't think they should be driving.
As far as losing on resale. There are people who are desperatley searching for used manual vehicles. I know of one on the other board, who was looking for Gen 1 EX with stick and had hardest time finding anyone willing to sell it. People who had it would not sell it, and the rest were auto's or LX's.
Sometimes people forget than when they are behind the wheel, their main job is to drive, talking, eating, listenning to the radio are all secondary. Shifting becomes automatic after a week or two. Maybe they are affraid of expanding energy???
I definitely prefer a manual just because you can determine when you need more or less power for the driving situation. Also a manual doesn't require the use of your radiator, thus your radiator can be more efficiently cool your engine instead. Manuals also, on the average, save more gas than autos, however autos are very close nowadays. You can also throw a manual tranny in neutral when going down hill to save gas. And lastly, it's just more fun!!!
Yet I drive an automatic just fine. I mean, not with any unusual amount of skill, but I don't have any problems either.
So, while I think it's good for everyone to learn to drive a stick, I don't necessarily think everyone will be able to do it, really. (I had my car for almost a year.)
At least I know never to take up, you know, flying airplanes.
-juice
I have to laugh - last week I was driving a loaner from the VW dealer. It was an auto Passat. I had to panic stop and instinctively slammed both feet to the floor. I thought I broke my left ankle.
-juice
I've driven 5MT CR-V from both generations (I own an old one) and can report that they're very similar. However, I haven't driven a 5MT Accord in a very long time.
I can tell you the throw is slightly longer than the Accord. The clutch engages a little high in the pedal stroke. That's common with all Honda's.
You might have better luck finding a 5MT Element to test drive. Although I haven't driven one, the feel should be pretty much the same as a CR-V.
I have the same situation. I was driving another 04 EX V - same color - which a friend has. We decided to take her AT up to a honda meet in CT - about 7 hrs drive. I constantly was waving my hand around, reaching for the shift - it was pretty funny as she noticed from the passenger seat. I also do the same when visiting my parents and driving their new Camry AT. Geesh. When I switched from an Accord MT to an Accord AT, I thought I was going to fall asleep. So, back to an MT when I purchased the V.
It makes a difference who is teaching you to drive MT. My Dad only let my sisters and I drive the only Datsun B210 when we were learning and after we had our permits and new licenses. He is a very patient guy, over and over reinforced what to do. I'm sure he had whiplash from us each driving that thing.
I test drove the 2002 Accord 5 spd before buying my 2002 Civic Si, and it had a very buttery shifter. It was very short and you could literally flick it with your fingers. Neither Si nor the CR-V are as smooth. They are better than the Ford sticks, and better or as good as BMW sticks.
CR-V has a very low first gear, which I got used to in the Si. So, none of that "slamming into first while rolling" business. Even if you are going 5-10 mph, you can not get it into the first without rev matching. It is very crisp and precise, and the clutch is buttery and smooth.
Ah, yes. That's very true. I've gotten so accustomed to that I didn't think to mention it. You pretty much have to be a complete stop to work it into first.
Also had a 02 CR-V EX 5sp. Slightly longer shifts.....still Honda precise and smooth.
Now have 04 CR-V EX auto........my wife wanted an auto(after 02 was totaled)
In the CR-V.....manual is FAR more fun to drive.....I don't like the 'hesitation' the auto gives you
Found a 2004 MDX-T, though.