I liked the Element concept and idea, as well the perfectly placed shifter. It would have been a nicer transition from the similarly dash mounted shifter in the Si. But, after a test drive, I realized that CR-V was a better handler for the type of driving I do, than the top heavy Element. I still find my self looking at them as I drive by one or two. The painted panel option is the greatest addition to the Element.
Glad she liked the Element, I hope the 2nd Gen Element is a little better in the handlig department, because I really like the versatility of ot over CR-V.
Apparently this price is approx $2700 below dealer cost. However, I don't know if the dealer received a discount on the dealer cost. What kind of deals have people from Canada been receiving?
pogs....if you're buying new in Canada, you should check out www.carcostcanada.com. They'll get you dealer invoice, as well as any incentives (no $ incentives on CRV's, only low finance rates). Well worth the small fee.
Not sure what trim level you are quoting - SE, EX or EXL? And does quote include PDI ($1,455 I think)?
My wife liked the Element... We ended up buying a manual EX CR-V: I love it! The only advantage the auto has (at least 2005+) is the longer gears. On the highway my 2004 manual turns about 3000RPM at 100kmh, 3500 at 120!...in 5th!!! It needs the European 6 speed manual.
I also keep staring at the Elements as they pass but I don't think I can make myself buy one. The lack of power would probably bother me eventually and the suicide doors would probably grate on me too. I didn't find the visibility to be all that great.
I found the RAV4 to handle and accelerate better than the CRV but it still nags me that the CRV gives you all the safety features standard and it's extra with the RAV4. I suppose it's no suprise the CRV is due for a remodel as I found the RAV4 to really blow it away on the interior layout. Not that the CRV is bad, but it just seems off, especially that shifter location.
In my area, the thing that drives me the most crazy is that ... every other person has a CRV!!! Sure the new RAV4 has only been out for a while, but it's amazing how many CRVs there are. I really like the Forester but it's rare you see a Subaru around here.
Everytime I think I've written off the CRV another goes by or I see the brochure on my dresser.
Is that a 2005 or 06 manual? I keep wanting the European 6 speed, the turbo diesel would be cool too... less power but a LOT more torque.
Yes the new RAV4 looks good in the interior, but I am very curious what the new CR-V will bring. I thought they might introduce it at the Detroit car show...
Oh yes, legroom is short too... I still love it though!
My wife liked the Element... We ended up buying a manual EX CR-V: I love it! The only advantage the auto has (at least 2005+) is the longer gears. On the highway my 2004 manual turns about 3000RPM at 100kmh, 3500 at 120!...in 5th!!! It needs the European 6 speed manual.
What do the 2005/2006 manuals do?
My tach is about 500 RPM higher than actual. 100 km/h = 62 mp/h --> about 3000 rpm sounds right. 3250-3300 rpm at 70 mph, and 3600 rpm at 80 mph.
I don't think the manual tranny chaged, only the auto changed for 2005.
As far as the 6 spd, I think it only comes with c-TDI, which I would have loved if Honda offered it as a replacement for the EX 5spd (the only manual version of CR-V). Don't forget that EU CR-V's get 2.0 liter, while we get 2.4 liter engine.
I have checked the dealer cost from a site like that. The trim level I was quoting was for the EX. The quotes do not include PDI.
I don't think there is a way of getting around that $1400-$1500 charge. However, I am reading that the quote does NOT include the dreaded Admin fee, that all dealerships seem to want to charge...for prepping the vehicle or silly things like that. Several dealerships tried to charge different amounts and no one was willing to explain in detail what the charges were for.
Sorry, this was from a past experience, when my brother went to buy a car in TO. We told every dealership that we weren't willing to pay anying unless the final price was $1000 off the MSRP...and we weren't going to pay the damn Admin/prep fee of $300-$500. The last dealership tried to make us pay $50. However, we said absolutely NOT. The guy went to talk to his manager who was probably listening in anyway. A few mins later, the manager asked if we were haggling over $50, and we said YES.
So, in the end we got what we wanted...after 6-7 dealerships.
However, with the popularity of the CRV's I am not sure if I will be able to squeeze much out of the dealerships. On the other hand, seeing as it's the last year of that model line...and the redesigned 2007 CRV coming out in Sept/Oct, just maybe I might be able to get a good deal.
I am in Toronto up in Canada. The Rav4 2006 is the first of a remodeled year, but unlike the Subaru Forester, it costs about a $500 more. Also, the various organizations that give out the dealer costs and have worked out a deal with certain dealerships to sell at a no-haggle price, list the Rav 4 at less of a discount than the Forester or the CRV. The Forester has been redesigned for 2006 as well.
I guess you already know the invoice price of the EX. I know invoice on the EX-L is $ 31,293, so EX invoice is probably about $3k less or around $28-28.2k? Add at most $1k profit on that to get to $29-29.5k. Your quote of around $29.2k is a good number, IMHO. I've heard as well that PDI is virtually non-negotiable, although there's profit in that for sure for either the dealer or manufacturer.
On the admin fee, I'ld get over it. $50 is not the big ticket item. I can live with anything in the $100-200 range. Its the profit on the car itself that I'ld hammer away at. I know one car broker who guaranteed me $1k over dealer invoice, which sounds close to what you got. At most you might be able to find a dealer who'll knock off $200-250, but that's about it. No one is selling these things at less than $500 profit until late in the year (September). Then, the all-new 2007 will arrive and you might get an extra $1-1.5k off. I doubt there are any other 'hidden' incentives available - those are rare with Honda Canada.
Interesting aside - PDI on CRV's, Pilots and Odyssey's is the same at $1.4k, even though Pilots and Odysseys are made in Alliston, Ontario, an hour away from here while the CRV is made in Japan/England.
Try US dealer across the border. There are 3 immideatly in Buffalo Area (Don Davis, LIA, and Ray Laks) plus another one in Rochester (John Holtz), and in Canandaigua (Ontario Honda).
I know that Honda voids warranty if a US citizen buys in Canada, but I think it works the other way around.
"I ralso replaced my Duelers. I went with the Goodyear Triple Tred and wow...I mean wow is this an awesome tire!"
I replaced my Duelers at 42,500 miles (2003 EX) with Michelin Hydroedge. Good tires so far - quite and "grippy" on the road; I haven't used them in the rain yet. We don't get a lot of snow in LA, so I'm not too worried about that aspect. I'm not sure I would have purchased them if I was in a more northerly climate.
I passed on the Element because of the low max weight load - 680 lbs vs the CR-V 850 lbs. That and the fact it cannot carry 5 people put it out of my search.
One of the things I've come to hate about living in Massachusetts... Last year, we had enough snow to justify snow tires. This year, we've had hardly any. Can't buy decent handling or quiet tires with the expectation that I'll switch over to snow tires in the winter. We never know if the winter will be kind to them. Running snow treads on bare pavement for long periods is a good way to kill an expensive set of tires.
I thought it never rained in Calif. Why would you buy HYDROedge tires in CA?
I bought Goodyear Aguatreads for both my vehicles a couple of years ago (now both sold) because of all the rain we get in the midsouth. They handled well in the wet, and I thought that was the idea of the HydroEdges as well.
I will likely buy some more Goodyears for our Ody when the Michelins wear out and not sure what to do with the brand new tires on the CR-V. I really liked those Aquatreads though, maybe I'll try them (or their replacements)if they come in the correct size.
I replaced my Duelers at 42,500 miles (2003 EX) with Michelin Hydroedge. Good tires so far - quite and "grippy" on the road; I haven't used them in the rain yet. We don't get a lot of snow in LA, so I'm not too worried about that aspect. I'm not sure I would have purchased them if I was in a more northerly climate.
If you never see snow, Yokohama Avid T4 were awesome in the wet and dry, but were horrid in the snow. The "V" groove would fill up with snow and the AWD CR-V drove worse than tail happy mustang 5.0. At $40 a pop they were the best deal around. This was in 2002, I think the price went up a bit to $45 a tire on http://www.tirerack.com
"The "V" groove would fill up with snow and the AWD CR-V drove worse than tail happy mustang 5.0. "
Yeah, that worries me about the Hydroedge as well. However, I do have those trusty snow cables (aka "chains") under my driver's seat for those rare snow situations. The Hydro's were rated about 6 for snow, 8 or 9 for wet weather.
I replaced my Duelers with Triple Treds too, they were definitely better traction than the Deulers but I thought they were noisier. Also ran into strange tire "howling" on certain types of roads at certain speeds. I don't know if any tire can really help the CR-V much in the snow. Up and down hills was good but man is that car ever loose on snow covered roads. Yikes, glad its gone. Maybe the ones with traction control and VSC are better now.
I'm really pleased with my CR-V's snow handling too. I don't drive in a ton of powder or anything, but it's done great on the snowy days we've had here, and on snowy roads in the mountains. Maybe my standards are just low :-)
This was an '03 and I think Honda made some improvements to the rt4wd system starting in '05?? To me, the front end always seemed slippy on snowy roads esp sweeping curves. Sometimes felt like maybe the rear end was pushing the front around a bit? Nothing dramatic, but always felt like I had to be extra cautious with it in the snow...which is maybe not a bad thing The Duelers became worthless for snow after about 20K. Snows on the front probably would have been the best for the CR-V.
This is a big step in the wrong direction, a lot more van-like and less SUV-like. The US market should run, not walk, to a Toyota dealer to buy a RAV4, or maybe to Acura for an RDX.
I didn't even mention Subaru, I listed the RAV4 and RDX.
Any how, what I mean is this is a market that generally prefer trucky looks over van-like looks, so going in that direction would be a mistake for Honda, given the CR-V has been successful for them.
Do you actually like that drawing?
It removes function (less visibility) without adding anything in terms of aesthetics (lines sag to the rear so it looks droopy), so I see it as a step backward from the current design.
We're actually talking about the D-pillar in this case.
A-pillar comes first, basically the left side of the A is the windshield. It helps if you try to visualize the letter A on the car.
B-pillar is basically the line that goes between the driver and passenger doors.
C-pillar, on a sedan, is the back of the passenger door. This is easier to imagine if you look at the passenger side of a car, because they are usually shaped like a C.
On wagons and SUVs, because the green house extends back beyond the rear door, that leaves a 4th pillar, called the D-pillar.
You're awesome. I had the same problem as Twain78 and I followed your advice. Draining the dual pump fluid and filling it with fresh fluid saved the day. My CR-V works and sounds like a champ again!
Yes, I think there is a 500.00 deduction for a manual transmission. Since the automatics were about 900.00 more when the car was new, it's not much of a difference.
EXCEPT...
As used cars, the manuals are VERY difficult to sell compared to the automatics! Very few people will consider one...at ANY price!
I posted this on a different forum so I apologize if anyone has read this twice. I had all four tires on my 2004 CRV by a local shop and they used 205/75R15 instead of the original 205/70R15 size. When I had it into Honda service, they told me that this change would hurt the RT4WD system. I find this hard to believe, especially since there are diameter differences between tire manufacturers for the same size tire. Would appreciate any input on this.
We closed the dealership down early on Saturday as the snow was starting to grow in intensity. I head home and begin to relax. At 9pm my newborn son starts having breathing problems due to RSV (a respiratoiry virus) My wife and I head out in the storm to the hospital....1am we leave the hospital in white out conditions. The Triple Treds on our 04 EX CRV were totally marvelous.
Today I am at the dealership when I get a text message from my wife. Evidently as she and the kids were coming home this kid darted out into the street right in front of her as she was doing about 40mph. She said she slammed on the brakes, and steered towards the sidewalk...hit a pile of snow. Everyone was fine, the ABS worked as expected but the Triple Treds AGAIN did their job.
I didn't even mention Subaru, I listed the RAV4 and RDX.
Any how, what I mean is this is a market that generally prefer trucky looks over van-like looks, so going in that direction would be a mistake for Honda, given the CR-V has been successful for them. If true it would also be confusing when compared to the Element and Ridgeline which (to me) have more straight line look and not a rounded or swoopy look like the drawing. The drawing kind of reminds me of a hatchback. Actually, it has a similar look to the Murano which is very popular in my area.
Then again, I think the Element is cool looking so clearly there's something wrong with my opinion.
Comments
Glad she liked the Element, I hope the 2nd Gen Element is a little better in the handlig department, because I really like the versatility of ot over CR-V.
I am up in Canada, Ontario to be precise.
Can anyone get a better price than $29189?
Apparently this price is approx $2700 below dealer cost. However, I don't know if the dealer received a discount on the dealer cost. What kind of deals have people from Canada been receiving?
pogs
Not sure what trim level you are quoting - SE, EX or EXL? And does quote include PDI ($1,455 I think)?
We ended up buying a manual EX CR-V: I love it!
The only advantage the auto has (at least 2005+) is the longer gears. On the highway my 2004 manual turns about 3000RPM at 100kmh, 3500 at 120!...in 5th!!! It needs the European 6 speed manual.
What do the 2005/2006 manuals do?
Nothing compared to a motorcyle engine though, so I am not too worried about it.
TB
I found the RAV4 to handle and accelerate better than the CRV but it still nags me that the CRV gives you all the safety features standard and it's extra with the RAV4. I suppose it's no suprise the CRV is due for a remodel as I found the RAV4 to really blow it away on the interior layout. Not that the CRV is bad, but it just seems off, especially that shifter location.
In my area, the thing that drives me the most crazy is that ... every other person has a CRV!!! Sure the new RAV4 has only been out for a while, but it's amazing how many CRVs there are. I really like the Forester but it's rare you see a Subaru around here.
Everytime I think I've written off the CRV another goes by or I see the brochure on my dresser.
Yes the new RAV4 looks good in the interior, but I am very curious what the new CR-V will bring. I thought they might introduce it at the Detroit car show...
Oh yes, legroom is short too...
I still love it though!
pogs
We ended up buying a manual EX CR-V: I love it!
The only advantage the auto has (at least 2005+) is the longer gears. On the highway my 2004 manual turns about 3000RPM at 100kmh, 3500 at 120!...in 5th!!! It needs the European 6 speed manual.
What do the 2005/2006 manuals do?
My tach is about 500 RPM higher than actual.
100 km/h = 62 mp/h --> about 3000 rpm sounds right.
3250-3300 rpm at 70 mph, and 3600 rpm at 80 mph.
I don't think the manual tranny chaged, only the auto changed for 2005.
As far as the 6 spd, I think it only comes with c-TDI, which I would have loved if Honda offered it as a replacement for the EX 5spd (the only manual version of CR-V). Don't forget that EU CR-V's get 2.0 liter, while we get 2.4 liter engine.
I have checked the dealer cost from a site like that. The trim level I was quoting was for the EX. The quotes do not include PDI.
I don't think there is a way of getting around that $1400-$1500 charge. However, I am reading that the quote does NOT include the dreaded Admin fee, that all dealerships seem to want to charge...for prepping the vehicle or silly things like that. Several dealerships tried to charge different amounts and no one was willing to explain in detail what the charges were for.
Sorry, this was from a past experience, when my brother went to buy a car in TO. We told every dealership that we weren't willing to pay anying unless the final price was $1000 off the MSRP...and we weren't going to pay the damn Admin/prep fee of $300-$500. The last dealership tried to make us pay $50. However, we said absolutely NOT. The guy went to talk to his manager who was probably listening in anyway. A few mins later, the manager asked if we were haggling over $50, and we said YES.
So, in the end we got what we wanted...after 6-7 dealerships.
However, with the popularity of the CRV's I am not sure if I will be able to squeeze much out of the dealerships. On the other hand, seeing as it's the last year of that model line...and the redesigned 2007 CRV coming out in Sept/Oct, just maybe I might be able to get a good deal.
What do you guyz think?
cheers,
pogs
I'm in US - PA. Dealers are decent to deal with for the most part, but yes, it would be best to wait until later in the year to haggle on an 2006.
You can search over on the Prices Paid thread also.
I am in Toronto up in Canada. The Rav4 2006 is the first of a remodeled year, but unlike the Subaru Forester, it costs about a $500 more. Also, the various organizations that give out the dealer costs and have worked out a deal with certain dealerships to sell at a no-haggle price, list the Rav 4 at less of a discount than the Forester or the CRV. The Forester has been redesigned for 2006 as well.
pogs
I guess you already know the invoice price of the EX. I know invoice on the EX-L is $ 31,293, so EX invoice is probably about $3k less or around $28-28.2k? Add at most $1k profit on that to get to $29-29.5k. Your quote of around $29.2k is a good number, IMHO. I've heard as well that PDI is virtually non-negotiable, although there's profit in that for sure for either the dealer or manufacturer.
On the admin fee, I'ld get over it. $50 is not the big ticket item. I can live with anything in the $100-200 range. Its the profit on the car itself that I'ld hammer away at. I know one car broker who guaranteed me $1k over dealer invoice, which sounds close to what you got. At most you might be able to find a dealer who'll knock off $200-250, but that's about it. No one is selling these things at less than $500 profit until late in the year (September). Then, the all-new 2007 will arrive and you might get an extra $1-1.5k off. I doubt there are any other 'hidden' incentives available - those are rare with Honda Canada.
Interesting aside - PDI on CRV's, Pilots and Odyssey's is the same at $1.4k, even though Pilots and Odysseys are made in Alliston, Ontario, an hour away from here while the CRV is made in Japan/England.
Good luck.
I know that Honda voids warranty if a US citizen buys in Canada, but I think it works the other way around.
Nice seeing you at the chat last night.
Steve, Host
I replaced my Duelers at 42,500 miles (2003 EX) with Michelin Hydroedge. Good tires so far - quite and "grippy" on the road; I haven't used them in the rain yet. We don't get a lot of snow in LA, so I'm not too worried about that aspect. I'm not sure I would have purchased them if I was in a more northerly climate.
THX
Steve, Host
TB
I bought Goodyear Aguatreads for both my vehicles a couple of years ago (now both sold) because of all the rain we get in the midsouth. They handled well in the wet, and I thought that was the idea of the HydroEdges as well.
I will likely buy some more Goodyears for our Ody when the Michelins wear out and not sure what to do with the brand new tires on the CR-V. I really liked those Aquatreads though, maybe I'll try them (or their replacements)if they come in the correct size.
Are those Hydros pretty quiet?
TB
If you never see snow, Yokohama Avid T4 were awesome in the wet and dry, but were horrid in the snow. The "V" groove would fill up with snow and the AWD CR-V drove worse than tail happy mustang 5.0. At $40 a pop they were the best deal around. This was in 2002, I think the price went up a bit to $45 a tire on http://www.tirerack.com
Common misconception. It rains a lot here between December and March. Some years, that is... other years it is dryer.
Yes, the hydroedge is quiet. Of course, anything would be quiet next to a Dueler.
Yeah, that worries me about the Hydroedge as well. However, I do have those trusty snow cables (aka "chains") under my driver's seat for those rare snow situations. The Hydro's were rated about 6 for snow, 8 or 9 for wet weather.
I never had problems in snow or mud with the stock Duelers.
I got my first oil change today!
Reminds me a lot of the Stream minivan:
http://www.honda.co.jp/STREAM/SP/gallery/tvcm01/index.html
This is a big step in the wrong direction, a lot more van-like and less SUV-like. The US market should run, not walk, to a Toyota dealer to buy a RAV4, or maybe to Acura for an RDX.
-juice
That looks like an artists rendition of a photochopped picture that's been around for awhile. The front hood looks like something off a CRX.
I've got even money the 2007 CR-V won't look like that. Any takers?
JM2C
-juice
Gee I always thought looks were subjective. Funny, I don't see Subaru winning any beauty contests with their vehicles.
Any how, what I mean is this is a market that generally prefer trucky looks over van-like looks, so going in that direction would be a mistake for Honda, given the CR-V has been successful for them.
Do you actually like that drawing?
It removes function (less visibility) without adding anything in terms of aesthetics (lines sag to the rear so it looks droopy), so I see it as a step backward from the current design.
-juice
Square that up, and it would look pretty good..
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A-pillar comes first, basically the left side of the A is the windshield. It helps if you try to visualize the letter A on the car.
B-pillar is basically the line that goes between the driver and passenger doors.
C-pillar, on a sedan, is the back of the passenger door. This is easier to imagine if you look at the passenger side of a car, because they are usually shaped like a C.
On wagons and SUVs, because the green house extends back beyond the rear door, that leaves a 4th pillar, called the D-pillar.
-juice
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Here's a pick to make the pillars more clear.
-juice
You're awesome. I had the same problem as Twain78 and I followed your advice. Draining the dual pump fluid and filling it with fresh fluid saved the day. My CR-V works and sounds like a champ again!
Yes, I think there is a 500.00 deduction for a manual transmission. Since the automatics were about 900.00 more when the car was new, it's not much of a difference.
EXCEPT...
As used cars, the manuals are VERY difficult to sell compared to the automatics! Very few people will consider one...at ANY price!
Left home in a Maine Nor'easter - snowing hard.
The original Duelers were wobbly at best (36M on the '05 CRV)
Replaced them with Goodyear Tripletreads...
Holy Cow!!! What a difference! Goes. Turns. Stops. And it was snowing much harder (and accumulations were deeper) on the way home.
Recommended Upgrade!
We closed the dealership down early on Saturday as the snow was starting to grow in intensity. I head home and begin to relax. At 9pm my newborn son starts having breathing problems due to RSV (a respiratoiry virus) My wife and I head out in the storm to the hospital....1am we leave the hospital in white out conditions. The Triple Treds on our 04 EX CRV were totally marvelous.
Today I am at the dealership when I get a text message from my wife. Evidently as she and the kids were coming home this kid darted out into the street right in front of her as she was doing about 40mph. She said she slammed on the brakes, and steered towards the sidewalk...hit a pile of snow. Everyone was fine, the ABS worked as expected but the Triple Treds AGAIN did their job.
Impressive tire, not cheap but impressive.
Any how, what I mean is this is a market that generally prefer trucky looks over van-like looks, so going in that direction would be a mistake for Honda, given the CR-V has been successful for them.
If true it would also be confusing when compared to the Element and Ridgeline which (to me) have more straight line look and not a rounded or swoopy look like the drawing. The drawing kind of reminds me of a hatchback. Actually, it has a similar look to the Murano which is very popular in my area.
Then again, I think the Element is cool looking so clearly there's something wrong with my opinion.
I like the look of the Element... and I like the Ridgeline, so I must be insane...