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....sort of disappointing compared to the Type R hatch that's available in England/Japan (with 200 hp no less!)
I found them in 1994 and was amazed. Local Honda dealers hate them especially when new models come out. Be warned this dealer sells its allocation fast on new body styles since other dealers sell at MSRP initially or close to the first year. I bought my first car from them over the phone with a $500 deposit. I was faxed a buyers order with price clearly shown. Only add is $49 doc fee which is reasonable. Deals generally take 15 minutes in and out if you have financing elsewhere. You could arrange financing anywhere for that matter. I was able to get a 99 Odyssey for $316 over invoice in 1998. They no longer sell the Odyssey for that price. I do not blame them. However, they are honest. I recommend ordering one soon (if you want one) before they come out and we end up with a 6 month wait. I can tell you I have sent about 25 people there in my best guess over the years and no one was ever disappointed. I recently had to cancel an order for a 2002 Odyssey due to my involvement with military but will order one as soon as my life gets back to normal. Just tell John Page that INKY sent you. As for out of state. In OK you do not pay tax or anything like that until you register. So you simply take Honda title and buyers paperwork to you DMV and pay your states taxes. You can check on that by calling your DMV.
Hope this helps.
INKY
$800 manual adjustable ground control coil overs
$240 front and rear adjustable no-sway bars
$643 16"x7" rims with tires
Total $1683.
With the coilovers you can set your own ride height. Lift it for off road trips, then lower it for the track. The sways will keep her level at no expense in comfort. The tire package is what I paid to have mine delivered to my doorstep.
You could still get a short shift lever, urethane bushings for the sway bars and gearbox, and still only spend about half as much.
It's cool that OE manufacturers are getting into the customizing game, but pricing has to be more realistic.
-juice
If both vehicles are only meant for dirt roads then I think that the CRV is a better buy???
Kinda strange putting a deposit on a vehicle I haven't seen, driven or even know the price of but I feel comfortable with my decision. John Page seems like a very nice person and thorough. And yes, Inky, I did let John know you were the reason I called them. Good luck! Joe
The Highlander's system is more sophisticated. They employ a truly full-time AWD system, using a center viscous coupling. That means both axles get power all the time, so it doesn't really feel like FWD, and it may have a slight edge in terms of traction available.
The Highlander also offers an optional rear limited-slip differential (LSD) on the rear axle. So it can also shift power from side-to-side on the rear axle.
Beyond and instead of that LSD, Toyota offers stability control coupled with 4 wheel traction control. That effectively manages slip on both front and rear axle, really the ideal setup. It can also correct some understeer and oversteer situations.
The CR-V has a similar option in Japan, but Honda has chosen to not offer it here, which is a shame IMO. In practice, the CR-V offers an extra margin of traction for rain and light snow, which is probably fine for most people, but the Highlander's system is above and beyond.
-juice
If anyone cares, Grand Honda in Elmhurst Illinois is now selling 2001 SE for $20400, which according to the ad includes destination. I figure that to be $873 below invoice. Similar pricing on other models. They better watch out - if it goes any lower I just might buy a 2001.
Oh yeah - thanks Inky!
Michael
It does seem to me that Honda would sell even more CR-Vs if it added additional safety options: side curtain airbags and stability control would be at the top of the list. I'll probably buy a new CR-V anyway, but I'd be willing to pay more for those two options.
Toyota's VSC is a $650 stand-alone option. The cool thing about that is you can get it with any model (I4 or V6, 2WD or 4WD).
-juice
Is VSC available on 2 WD 4 cylinders in the real world? Are the dealers misleading me by suggesting that it is mostly the $30,000+ models that have this option? I certainly haven't found any 2 WD 4s with VSC in a dealer's stock. Thanks.
Sandhurst - The JDM CR-V is competition for a vehicle that is based on the Lexus RX300 in Japan and the price shows it. To make VSC work with the CR-V, it also has four channel ABS instead of the 3 channel that we get here. The shower kit is a nice attachment as well. :-)
Toyota has been doing AWD for a long time, in the Celica All-Trac, for example. Reliability should be quite good.
It certainly costs more, though.
You joke about the shower kit but one car at the Tokyo show actually had a shower head attachment! Honda even had two scooters in the front doors of its concept. Talk about wild stuff!
-juice
BTW, an AWD Highlander 2.4l starts at $25,790, and really only lacks a couple of items the CR-V EX comes with (alloys, side bags). Add those and you hit $26,560.
The 2001 CR-V EX auto costs $22k, but the 2002 EX 2.4l is expected to cost $23-24k. That's certainly getting mighty close, and the Toy has a longer warranty and 0% financing right now that could make the payment similar.
Add VSC for $650 more, but Toyota shouldn't be penalized for offering that (or a V6) as an option while Honda doesn't.
I like the Highlander, much more so than the RAV4. It feels substantive, like the RX300 without the fluff (as it is).
-juice
I'm fan of the Highlander, as well. It's just that getting one with AWD and either LSD or VSC costs quite a bit more (according to Edmunds, you can't get both LSD and VSC). And no, the Highlander shouldn't be penalized for offering a V-6. It just puts it into a different class. The '02 CR-V is almost a competitor with the 2.4 version, but not quite.
I do think a lot of people will cross-shop the CR-V, stripped down Highlander, and the VUE. Toyota has mastered packaging options so that adding even a few things you want quickly kicks the price up to $30k. But if you can keep the options under control you can get one for $26 or $27.
You may be right. The stripped down Highlanders certainly aren't on dealers lots. Others here have said that you can order one with the items you want, but I admit that I don't know how accommodating Toyota would be about that. The way Toyota packages options is very annoying.
Perhaps I should have said that people will cross-shop CR-V, VUE and Highlander until they find out that the Highlander they want will cost over $30k!
jheil, which state do you live in? You buy car/truck from CA and OK, do you fly there and drive home?
And for inky, thanks for serving our country!!!
Terry
http://www.handa-accessories.com/crv/crvkeyless.pdf
INKY
As I wandered through the show several vehicles caught me eye. A 112K Humvee..why would any person want one? Several Hyndai models looked real fine with prices that make you think twice. The Highlander does look nice at 34K. The RAV 4 just looks small. The Saturn Vue is interesting; however, what's with the 1980's truck looking headlights and nose? Triscapes too...nice space and looks...but are the recalls over? What a great way to "shop". All are in the same area for comparison without running all over.
I'm still sold on the CR-V. Just wish I could have seen one without a salesman breathing down my neck.
I DROVE the 2002 yesterday and can tell you that it is an incredible vehicle. Honda has change almost EVERYTHING with the CR-V. You might ewant to compare the changes to the Odyssey from 1998 to the new change of 1999.
Whats changed?
Engine, the 160 hp 162 ft lbs torque actually powers up and continues further than the 200 hp Escape, 210 Liberty...and FORGET the RAV-4. Yes we drove those too.
Suspension. They are now going to the 'modified' Macpherson strut, similar to the Civic change. I personally believe it has to do with the 5 star saftey rating.
Interior...very cool and user friendly. New shift knob placemnent, e brake placement, and the EX now comes standard with moon roof, 6 disc cd changer and more.
This new 2002 will do very very well.
Jerry
Jerry
Thanks.
I think Honda would rather have that walk-thru space between the two front buckets because the Honda MDX will most likely have a flat floor.
The Acura MDX itself already has a rather wide track, and yet it can only fit 7 (barely)...how is Honda going to fit an extra person in without making it super-wide?
I think Honda is being smart with the sizing. The new CRV is pretty big by "mini" SUV standards, so it will be attractive to those looking for what has classically been considered a "mid-size" SUV. The new Explorer is pretty large for a "mid-size" SUV. So Honda is probably aiming a liitle in front of the curve with the Honda MDX's size - by the time it hits the market "mid-size" might have a new meaning.
Besides, Honda learned a valuable lesson with the Odyssey. The last generation was conservative in size and didn't sell well. The current Ody is (or was) the largest minivan on the market and enjoys a huge demand. Honda knows America thinks "bigger is better" when it comes to family vehicles. Those who want a more upscale vehicle than the CRV will probably embrace the Honda MDX, regardless of it's larger size.
If not, they can buy an Envoy or Trailblazer...let them eat cake!!
Just my $0.02
I guess that we will all find out this Spring wont we?
Jerry
About pricing. Honda has always been pretty secretive regarding pricing. They dont put the Monroni labels on the side windows til they hit the port. So at this point NOBODY has MSRP or invoice info.
After speaking with some dealers on the 2002 I take it that we will be again in the supply/demand pricing situation.
Jerry
6 speed manual transmission
5 speed automatic transmission
Will we ever see those upgrades in the CRV.
Speaking of 6 speed transmissions, I remember the dark ages of the American automobile, the late '70s and early 80s. Someone wrote in when of the monthly magazines that the American manufactureres would start giving us 5 speeds when the Japanese began offering 6 speeds.
A creeper gear in first would be an interesting option, but it's already pretty low.
What your take on the guy in Oklahoma selling his allotment of 2002 CRVs @ $316.00 over invoice? Dose it sounds to good to be true, so it isn't?
How many 2002 CRVs are planned to be shipped to USA? 100,000 ?
Based on all the changes and upgrades of the 2002...and supplies being what they are projected to be, I would say that they will be sold pretty close to MSRP. We (my dealership) does not have a policy of adding a ADM sticker, so the highest we can go is MSRP. There will be dealers that will go above that both in price/or other misc charge like doc fees and in options. You see it everytime a new car is brought into the fold. Honda is treating this just like a new car.
So, again it comes down to this. Is what you are buying a good value to you? If it isn't then dont buy it. I get this frequently from people that are looking for Odysseys. They will say "I never pay MSRP". Thats fine, everyone has their own buying motivation...but if you look at what is being sold by D/C and Ford and GM...an invoice deal still is VERY close to MSRP on an Odyssey. So, it does come down to perspective.
Now, don't get me wrong. I sell Civics and Accords ALL day long at flat invoice. So it doesn't matter one whit to me what they go for. If I have them on the lot (CR-V) and they don't move as fast as say the Odyssey, then they will be discounted.
Hope this helps
Jerry
Honda bases their manufacturing their car on projections of 'what they can sell'. This means that cars are sold to people like me and you...NO FLEET sales. You dont see any fleet specials on Honda's do you? Residual values are consistently in the mid-upper 50%'s right? AND...and this is the big AND...Honda customers are generally the most loyal there is. So, a Honda sale is to keep a customer in the Honda family for a long time.
If a dealer was smart, and sometimes we let pride get in our way with these things, when someone comes up and says that Joe Blow Honda in Bartles and James OK is selling this or that at 316 over invoice...if this car is a hot seller, I won't honor someone elses business model. Why should I?
Again, using Odysseys as an example. At our last ride and drive I spoke with the rep for a buying service at a another dealership close to us. He told me that they are "working on July deliveries" for orders on Odysseys for the dealership...the buying service is on a 15 month waiting list. So you can wait 1 year and 3 months for a 'deal' on a Odyssey or you can buy one at MSRP+900+doc fees...in July. Go figure!
Enough of my rant! :-)
Jerry
/fine line/
Thanks!
Steve
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JM2C
I was curious - do you know whether that figure takes inflation into account? At today's typical prices, that $200K would get you as many as 10 cars. 30 years ago, 200K would have gotten you perhaps 30 or 40, better than 1 a year!
tidester
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