Toyota 4Runner

g_husky

Perhaps the reason Toyota does not want early pictures out is that there is still hope that an internal grass-roots effort there can save the day by smoothing out some of that body cladding! Of course they would all have to first agree that the Avalanche is not the future benchmark for styling. Okay, I concede it is probably too late to hold out hope for this. This poor judgement in design is tolerable in monotone Limited color, but to have to pay $39K large to distance myself from the dark cladding of lower trim levels is a stiff penalty to pay.

Still though, now that Toyota has put more engine under the hood, is perceived to have higher reliability and proven resale value than the other options out there, I'm sure this design violation will not be enough to keep the new 4runner from being in scarce supply.

md2002

I am glad I checked out things today and got the pics, but no PDF file. The next stop for me is to the dealer I buy from since they can't seem to get any good info. These pics will be printed on a nice color printer so they can be ready. WHY? They don't have any 4RUNNERs on their lot and this could help them out.

I don't like the black plastic on the Sport, it looks cheap, sort of Exploder look. I want the Sport with the color keyed, but most likely the only way you get that is Ltd or SR5???

I saved all 37 pics and sent them to the office and other places for safe keeping. Let the Toyo folks get a grip. Some people may not like the new look some may, some may want the 3rd Gen with a huge discount, me I don't care for the seats.

To all the Toyota Sales folks has anyone actually sat in one? I mean is there better overall height inside and are the seats better. Do they actually reach the tops of a normal persons shoulders?

Thanks and does anyone know where the PDF is?

superleggera

You shouldn't be placed in the awful position of being between two sets of lawyers. I understand your situation is a difficult one and none of us wants to make it worse. However, I have to agree that Toyota should realize that we, the "early adopters" of their newest products should be considered when making embargo decisions. Many consumer product companies understand that there is a bell curve effect here. We are the 10% of their customers at the leading edge of that curve who will want to know every detail about every bolt that goes into the product months before we can buy. I understand the cannibalization argument, but the embargo is effectively OVER now that magazines and TV shows feature this vehicle. Edmunds is the best site, and it must be trusted by all the stakeholders. I'm sure there is a lot of politics here that we don't know about, considering the amount of money invested in a new vehicle launch, but one would hope that for their cooperation with Toyota, Edmunds would get some exclusive photos and information that it could release to its loyal subscribers.

tidester

I'm sure there is a lot of politics here that we don't know about...

For sure! And thanks for understanding.

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

nippononly

does anyone think it possible that the plastic cladding can be cheaply removed by someplace without it looking totally tacky afterwards?

Why, oh why, would they put plastic on this thing?

md2002: I thought the only ways to get it were ltd, sport, or SR5...there isn't a base model is there? There certainly isn't for '02.

4wdisfun

Is this kind of a joke. In a free and global world, in the digital era in y2002 ????.
hahahahahahahaha

Logistics and marketing aren't talking (very dilbertish situation)

pbshann

Saw the Motorweek episode yesterday and the wife thought the new 4Runner was cute and stated she would look into more when they are out for a few years. Maybe if she gets one she will quit stealing my Trailblazer!?

maxamillion1

The darn pics of the new 4Runner are already in a couple of magazines in store racks in my area. I saw 2 pics, one that had monotone paint, and the other had two tone painting. I don't like the new one much.

Could someone PLEASE e-mail me pics of the interior, heck send me all the pics if possible.
Click on my name, and my e-mail address should show up.

mjohnr99

g husky, I am with you - if only this were a cruel joke, a red herring, anything to tell me that I would be able to option in a color keyed "cladding" on an SR5 or Sport! Poor 4Runner, poor Toyota, THE DRAM OF EVIL DOTH ALL THE NOBLE SUBSTANCE OF A DOUBT TO HIS OWN SCANDAL!

. . . please Cliffy, tell us that there is a way out from the plastic siding on the 2003 SR5s and Sports we all saw pictured here a few days ago - is there any hope in waiting until the 15th at this point?

Ohhh, how I long for the old days when Pat ran the board and folks like TILER et al. were all posting the dreams that made many of us wait: "However, I read this at autonews.com: With many automakers going carlike, Toyota will make sure the 4Runner stays trucky. A redesign comes in the mid-2002 calendar year as the lead vehicle off the new Tacoma platform."

Trucky? What the "heck" [pardon my french], you ignored the Tacoma's heritage and one-of-a-kind image and gave us a 4Ravlander that the snooty Lexus owners on my block will laugh at . . . especially if I paid 39K for the same thing that they got in there GX470.

Toyota: without more, from first to worst.

diploid

thecarconnection.com has a review of the 03 4Runner.

nippononly

autonews just arrived - I subscribe to autonews.com, and there is an article in there on the new Runner. One of the things they have said is that they are expecting to be able to deliver a V-8 4WD for $30K. One thing that seems to be an improvement (I can barely believe this) on the gen 4 is the price.

All models, even lowliest 2WD V-6 get automatic climate control, which to me is a sign of where the focus of this new gen is headed. They also all get the downhill assist for crawling down, and hill holder for going up steep hills.

They expect to sell 45% 2WD - this has GOT to be higher percentage than on 3rd gen, right?? Also, there are no more 15" rims on any model or trim, 16" is standard, and of course you can now get 17" if you want them. The air suspension is only an option on V-8 ltd.

They claim they want to keep its offroad heritage intact, but to me this part just sounds like a bunch of PR hype to avert 4Runner savaging Highlander sales just when they were doing so well.

nippononly

and they make a big deal about the fact that once the key is turned in the ignition, the engine will start in 0.2 seconds! This was not something I expected to see! What an odd thing to boast of.

tbcreative

I know many people, especially 4Runner loyalists, don't like the plastic cladding, but I think the black on black looks VERY COOL, and means I'm better protected from scuffs. Everyone keeps mentioning the Avalanche, but the first vehicle I think of, that Toyota states they were going after with this new model, is the Grand Cherokee Laredo, which looks good with the cladding, in my opinion. The Avalanche looks over-stated and clunky, but the Laredo looks fine, as does the Liberty Sport. I thought the whole purpose of the cladding was to protect from the elements when off-roading, so it's strange to hear all of the criticism about the cladding from off-road enthusiasts. But, if you don't like the way it looks, then you don't like the way it looks... I agree there should be a version of the SR5 without cladding, because, aside from a good portion of guys who don't like it, I know a lot of women don't like it either.

Even though the ground clearance has gone from 11" to 9.1", it appears as though the rocker height is very close to the 3rd gen. I don't worry about scuffing the shields underneath, but I do worry about the rockers! And since I like the SR5, or the Sport Edition (only if I can swap those ugly wheels for the 5-spokes) with the cladding, and with all the incredible new travel in the suspension, all I need to do is slap some BFG All-Terrain T/A KO 265/70 R-17s on those 5-spoke wheels for slightly more rubber, and I'm good to go!

intmed99

First off, the LOWEST part on a 3rd gen 4Runner is (happily!) the rear axle housing. I measured mine last night and it was 9.8" off the ground, which is the same as the Land Cruiser...i do have the new Bridgestone REVO (stock size: 265/70/16) tires, which may increase the height by a few millimeters. 9.8" for stock SUV is nonetheless quite impressive! Toyota uses a bogus ground clearance rating. They got 11" from measuring from the ground to the body (NOT frame or axle). So, don't worry too much about the ground clearance difference.

Therefore, unless Toyota officially states, "MINIMUM running ground clearance" (as it does in Land Cruiser brochure), do NOT trust the ground clearance ratings!

Lexus states the minimum ground clearance. I think the GX470 is 8.3". I cannot see how the new '03 4Runner can be any different...9.1" from rocker panel?? I guess we have to wait....

On another note, i think the new 4Runner looks nice and seems capable enough. I think it is the best in it's class. I think the Limited model is more user-friendly and looks better than the GX470.

glzr2

mrwhipple... are you sure the body cladding is painted? Painting exterior plastic goes against all Toyota's goals of cost reduction. Exterior cladding that is painted will show rock chips and scratches easily.

VW discussion....
Isn't the VW Touareg going to be badged as a Porsche also? I would freak if I saw a VW/Porsche on the logging trails up North. I'll make sure I have my tow strap.

tbcreative... I have... oops.. had a blazer ZR2.

IMO the reason Toyota is so secretive about the next generation 4-runner is because they have been stung in the past with trying to sell the older models. Toyota has been the leader in launching redesigned car/trucks at the same price as the old model. Who wants to buy the old version if the new one is the same price? Although the new 4-runner isn't going to be the same price as the old... Toyota is just following SOP.

Gadgets galore... the wife's VW has the driver side back-up mirror. I though it was a nice touch at first, but who uses their drivers side mirror to parallel park? Does the new 4-runner have the back-up mirror on the drivers or passengers side?

mhenderson1

I saw the Motorweek last Saturday and I have to tell, I expect to see another update on this vehicle. Usually during a vehicle testing, they would show in great detail and up close, the interior and all the amenities as well as a vehicle speed and braking test. They did not do this during this episode. This epsiode was very generalized compared to other reviews. Although it was nice to see the 4-runner in action. Toyota must have had a hold on them as well. The price range was from $27K for a 2WD-V6 to $37K for a 4WD-V8. I'm hoping I can get a 4WD-V6 with a sunroof for around $30K. If Toyota prices the 4-runner right, i think you will see a mad rush of consumers canceling their order with Acura and Honda to get a Toyota 4-runner. I hope Toyota will negotiate after a few months, unlike Acura which is still gouging consumers, two years after their vehicle came out.

If you live in the Wash., DC area, Motorweek will repeat the episode on thurs. at 8:30 on channel 22 (PBS).

deloid

I have seen many complaints about the plastic cladding and as a true off roader I can tell you that the vehicle would be better with even more plastic like the Jeep GC. Take the vehicle spinning on rocks or narrowly squeezing between tree branches and see what looks good.....plastic or scratched up paint.
If you don't intend to take the vehicle off road get the highlander or the limited 4R.

deloid

rsholland

<< VW discussion....
Isn't the VW Touareg going to be badged as a Porsche also? I would freak if I saw a VW/Porsche on the logging trails up North. I'll make sure I have my tow strap. >>

Porsche's Cayanne is a very close relative, for sure. The VW version is said to be geared more for the off-road crowd, and will offer an optional off-road package for those who want more off-road capability.

I'm wondering if today's new releases on the 4Runner is more a result of all the news leaks (the cat's out of the bag, so we might as well 'fess up...), or that the releases were actually scheduled for today?

Bob

rsholland

pwitz

Ok, just saw a site that had a first review and pics of the 2003 (I won't give out the name of to break the rules here, but it try a Google search on "car connection" and voila!)
The problem with the cladding, like the Avalanche, is the damn square wheel openings. Tires are round! Upgrading the tire size to even huge 20" doesn't solve the problem of that it looks like the vehicle is riding on stilts. That, and the fact the cladding is so thick...looks to be a healthy 6" in spots, plus with the "rivets" look of that makes the flares on the Nissan Frontier look overdone. GM is making the Avalanche without cladding an option mid year...I bet that there a lot of takers for that.
Also, was disappointed to read that the rear seat leg room and door openings are smaller! Not good. That is a step backwards, and why a lot of people have skipped the Pathfinder.

world_traveler

What do you mean: Today new releases about the 2003 4Runner. I haven't seen anything ?

beagles3

I just did a TV Guide search and found that on Sept 30th (Monday) @ 2:00 AM on Channel 12 KBTC, their will be the 4-Runner segment here in the Puget Sound area....

dmetzger

If the article you read stated the 2003 Runner has less leg room, than they are mistaken. It has increased 1 1/2" to 38 1/4". the 2003 is larger in every dimension except for cargo area.

See a previous post that list the dimensions.

rsholland

There are "official" reports (today) on the Automotive News site, and the Car Connection site, that I've seen. There are probably(?) others too.

Bob

airbur

a. overall length >4.5" 187.8
b. wheelbase >4.5" 109.8"
c. ft leg room >2" 44"
d. rr leg room >1.5" 3.25"
e. headroom >.5" 39.7"ft, 39.1"rr
f. pass-pass width >2" 30"
g. shoulder room >4.5" 58"ft, 57.2rr
h. hip room >5.25" 55.3"ft & rr
i. track >2.5" 62"
j. overal width >3" 73.8"

airbur

"4Runner scales Everest

The redesigned 4Runner sport-utility will lead Toyota's truck advertising.

The division has teamed with the Outdoor Life Network and ABC TV to promote the sport-utility in a program called "Global Extremes: Mt. Everest-4Runners of Adventure."

Adventure competitions starting Oct. 26 will determine four winners who each receive a 4Runner and get to climb Mount Everest in May, weather depending. It will celebrate the 50th anniversary of the first person to climb the mountain. The commercial, which stars Mount Everest's first climber, Sir Edmund Hillary, breaks Oct. 25.

"This is a monumental vehicle launch. We need to re-establish its credentials," Sturm said.

He expects to sell 80,000 4Runners this year and 100,000 next year.

The 4Runner also will have a big presence in the TV show, "Push, Nevada," which premiered Tuesday, Sept. 17. The mystery program also is a contest to find the show's missing money. Key characters drive Toyota vehicles.

Toyota continues to position the 4Runner as a rugged, off-road vehicle, while the Highlander is the sport-utility for the city"

peter78

If Motor Week got the first 2003 4Runner review, this must be the second. I especially like the 24,000 price tag, but some how I don't believe it.

http://thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5349&sid=181&n=157

superleggera

I like the look too. The cladding is okay, it's just the gap in the rear wheel well (huge!) that looks kinda funny.

beagles3

I have to be honest, the front end looks great,but, the back end looks kind of like a Volvo station wagon..What's with the tailpipe? Kind of like the new Trailblazer, front looks good,but, the back end looks slapped together?

goltgo

First off, thanks to Beagles3 for posting the Seattle-area time for MotorWeek's 4Runner episode.

Second, I've got just a little more on the cladding...

Sure, on the Limited it looks okay. It matches the paint color and it's pretty smooth. However, I think the indentations in the cladding on the SR5 and Sport models are useless and ugly. On Nissan's Frontier, I believe the cladding indentations are meant to mimic screws (who knows ... are they fastened with 3M tape anyway?). On the new 4Runner, the indentations are rectangular and just plain look weird. I agree that getting the black cladding on a black SR5 or Sport 4Runner will look better than any other color, but that's partly because you are imitating the Limited's single-color look, and also because the indentations get "lost" in all that black.

Maybe it'll look better in person or maybe the 2004 4Runner will sport different cladding. I know the Limited is supposed to look like the best of the line to warrant the price, but sheesh IMO it's almost like you get punished for buying the SR5/Sport.

newgrad

Just saw the first review of the new 2003 4Runner here at edmunds.com. Love the new interior and all the cool new gadgets and safety features! However, I'm still undecided about the exterior, although I could see it growing on me. IMO, I think it has lost a little bit of it's ruggedness (as well as cargo room) which is a bummer. Wish I could put the interior of the new 4th gen into my 3rd gen because I love the current exterior styling. That would be awesome. Anyways, I heard that Oct. 15th is the official release date and I hope whoever is the lucky duck to drive the first one off the lot will let us know how it is...

JPham

Does this mean it's safe to post those pics again?

JP

tidester

LoL! Now there's no need to go elsewhere to see the pics - we have a full collection of them right here! :-)

---

---

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

rsholland

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/74756/article.html

And think, just yesterday there was a picture embargo...

Bob

tidester

And think, just yesterday there was a picture embargo..

I didn't even see that coming! We'll have to coordinate with the writers a little better.

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

beagles3

Is it really 9-9 1/2 in or did we get to keep the 11??

JPham

Is that a Toyota or a Pontiac?

JP

intmed99

It sure is nice to tell people that the 4Runner (3rd gen) has 11" of ground clearance! However, i think 9.8" is a slightly more "truthful" answer. Remember, this is still excellent! Name me another stock SUV that has as good of a ground clearance. There isn't too many...here are some for reference:

2003 Land Rover Discovery = 8.3-8.5"
2002 Toyota Land Cruiser = 9.8"
Mercedes G500 = 8.3-8.5"
Nissan Pathfinder/QX4 = 8.3"
Mitsubishi Montero = 8.7"
Jeep Grand Cherokee = 8.5-9.0" (depending on suspension)
2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon = 9.5"
2003 Range Rover = 8.8-11" (at center of vehicle only)
2002 Acura MDX = 6.5-8.0" (at center of vehicle only; 6.5" at control arms)
2003 Lexus GX470 = 8.3"
2002 GMC Envoy = 8.0"
Hummer H1 = 16" (!!!)
Hummer H2 = 10"

Thus, 9.8" is easily still class-leading, and only 1 or 2 SUVs in ANY class have more ground clearance. When you factor in the excellent approach/departure angles of 3rd gen 4Runner (36/28 degrees), you have a class-leader for sure.

beagles3

Thanks...It makes more sense now..My first 4x4 was a 1983 CJ7 that I maxxed out with swampers, aftermarket gears, full roll cage, etc...so, I just keep in mind when I really used to off-road compared to driving in the snow/logging roads. Thanks for the info on the other vehicles...I need to start working O/T so that I may be able to afford my Limited...

intmed99

emale

wow, is GM building the new 4runner? in pictures it certainly looks like it went to the pontiac school of body cladding. imo, its platform mate, the GX 470, looks better. guess i might change my mind when the real thing shows up on dealer lots, but for now i'm underwhelmed and frankly a bit disappointed...

bswansea

I agree with emale in the above post. I've always loved the 4Runner and Toyotas in general but the styling on some recent models, like the new Camry, is really making me question who Toyota is targeting for customers (obviously not me). The body cladding and bulging wheel flares on this new 4Runner is just too much. It's not nearly as streamlined as the model that it's replacing which is too bad. That was a really good look for the 4Runner. The interior, on the other hand, is quite handsome, IMO. I'm sure this new 4Runner will surpass its predacessor in handling, power, and comfort, and knowing Toyota, it will be very reliable, but I think they've lost a bit of their appeal with the styling.

cliffy1

One thing has really been bugging me here. How can the overall length and width be increased, the seats fold flush to the floor but the cargo room decreased? I have a possible answer and it is similar to the answer that has been proposed for the reduced ground clearance.

Toyota seems to have measured ground clearance in the front and ignored the rear differential. Likewise, Toyota has been a bit tricky about how they measure interior volume. In fact, they were almost sued by Ford for their figures on the Sequoia because they pretended the back seat didn't exist. It is possible that they are just now giving an accurate measurement for this volume.

Its just a theory right now. I'm going to take a tape measurer to it when it comes in.

emale

bswansea,

agreed about the interior. it looks like it belongs in a lexus! and u r right about the current generation looking better. to me even the old sequoia looks better than this new 4runner...

coolguyky7

The 4Runner is made in Japan.

kullenberg

When I consider Toyota reliability, longevity, and resale value, and then I close one eye when I look at the new one (LOL), I guess it will have to go back on my short list. I mind the cladding less on the LTD, but would like to see it in other colors, green perhaps. Next step is pricing, but I think that will not happen until next month. I hope it continues to grow on me!

coolguyky7

Why are people not liking the styling of the Limited? I don't think it has that ugly Pontiac look. Is it styled for a younger generation perhaps? My cousin and I like it.

diploid

I think the beef with the styling has to do with the rather overdone black cladding.

rsholland

the new 4Runner, with the black cladding will look very good with a dark paint scheme. The cladding will almost disappear into the background.

I think most people will be turned off, when it's against a light color, which will make the cladding stand out.

Bob

g_husky

The AutoNews article "Toyota expands 4Runner in size and engines" is available there on-line without need for subscription. Interestingly in another article there today the chief Toyota engineer says no third-row seat because the 4runner will be purchased by "young people and young couples". Oh my gosh, after deciding against the Pilot I may not qualify for 4runner as I'm 40's with two kids!!! (mmmmm, is this the reason I don't get the body cladding era????)