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Jeep Wrangler



  • I agree with you. That thing DC is going to call a wrangler is truly ugly. Why fix something that is not broken. I also agree with you on the dash. I would actually like to see a dash similiar to simplistic CJ on the current models.

    I would like to hear how everyone else feels about the 2003 wrangler...

    Tsjay, saharanut, saharagal, twylie, texasjeep, goducks1 and anyone else I left out. How do you guys feel about the new jeep?

    here is the link if you missed my previous post.......

  • tluketluke Posts: 52
    As some of you may know I am one who is waiting for a 2003 Wrangler. I lurk more than post but every time I hear mention of the 03 it gets my attention. I checked out the above site for the 2003. I don't believe DC would make such a radical change in a vehicle that depends on tradition and continuity. They made the leap with the Liberty and there is no need to destroy the Wrangler. I have heard that the 2003 Wrangler will stay vastly unchanged.I will put my faith in that rumor. Got to run lightning is hitting close.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Edmunds would not appreciate the language I would have to use to state my true feelings about anyone that messes with the Wrangler design!

    I think the CJs, YJs and TJs have evolved very nicely. There have been some definite improvements/refinements, but they have remained true to the basic concept. They are still Jeeps!

    That thing in the picture is NOT a Jeep! YUCK!

    Hopefully, this info is just pure speculation and will not prove out.



    Have you huggd your Jeep today?
  • jacknimblejacknimble Posts: 171
    I like the looks of it. It appears to have good ground clearance, probably rides even better than the TJ, and is packaged more efficiently and aerodynamic than previous Jeeps. Do I like it better? don't know, I also like other cj/yj/tjs - they're just different. I remember similar grumblings about the YJ when it first came out: "REAL Jeeps have round headlights.." and the such.

    Change is *usually* good, and frankly I'm glad the wranglers now have coil springs, greatly improved airconditioning and convenience features, while still providing the versatility of past models. Maybe on the next Wrangler, the removeable hard panels may eliminate the soft vs. hard top decision.

    Having said all that, only time will tell if it is a worthy replacement - lets just hope that government regulations don't kill the versatility of the Jeep, and DC management doesn't forget what Jeeps are supposed to be. Otherwise, we all might as well buy CRVs, Escapes, or whatever.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Did you see the same picture that I did????

    That thing is NOT a Jeep! Through all of the previous changes, the Jeep kept it's identity. The new TJ's are still immediately recognizable as a Jeep.

    Let them offer that thing as something else, if they want to market it, but it should never be considered as a replacement for a Wrangler!

    Jeeps (CJs,YJs, TJs) are all about history and tradition. They are a piece of americana. They must NEVER be radically changed!

    Better ride, better mileage, quieter, etc., etc? Hey, I gave all that up knowingly and willingly to have a "real" Jeep! I don't regret for a moment that I did.

    There are plenty of sissy alternatives in the marketplace if someone doesn't want to buy a real Jeep. We don't need another one, and certainly not if it will replace our Jeeps!


    Have you hugged your REAL Jeep today?
  • Good. That's what I wanted to do. Make everyone aware, spread the word and bombard DC with letters stating our displeasure with changing the wrangler so radically.

    Look, I am all for evolutionary improvements. I think the current wrangler is far better than any predecessor. And yes, without change we wouldn't have the current wrangler. BUT IT STILL LOOKS LIKE A WRANGLER!! I am also sure future changes will only enhance the performance of the TJ. But to be so radical, DC better think twice.

    tluke, Sorry to say (though I hope your rumor is correct) I have read several publications saying that the TJ will be retired. I think it is just a matter of when, 2003 or 2004, it is coming. It was rumored as early as 2000 that 2003 would be the year of change. At first I heard it was just simply replacing the inline 6 with a V6 (another mistake), but now I have seen articles in car and driver and somewhere else, can't remember, and several articles on the internet.

    jacknimble, I agree with tsjay. That thing is not a jeep. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
  • From what I have read on this, the "new" jeep will be very similiar to the jeep icon (that thing in the picture) than it will be to the current wrangler. Maybe not as ugly? One thing is for certain, whatever DC produces will get the same V6 that is in the liberty. 2002 will probably be the last year for the inline 6.

    Of course, like most of you, I hope DC just continues to tweak to wrangler.....
  • ottowrkrottowrkr Posts: 778
    For those of you wondering what the next generation jeep will look like all you have to do is look at the current Jeep liberty, it has been reported by DC that this is the future for the jeep Wrangler.
  • saharanutsaharanut Posts: 134
    hey, are we sure that is the "future" wrangler
    or just a concept Vehicle.. maybe they will take some aspects from that into future models.
    I belive the modular hard top will be a GREAT idea. We all know that the internal conbustion engine will be replaced in the future.
    While in my heart i hope they dont change the wrangler I know they will. you cant stop progress. If we dont want progress we might as well get our horse & buggy out..& turn off the COMPUTER..
    Look at it this way..All of us that have jeeps we will have the last of the lot.
    Never live in the past so much so it limits your future

    Got Jeep?
    PS..That is an UGLY JEEP!! What are they thinking?
  • saharagalsaharagal Posts: 88
    I don't lke the looks of it at all. I can't imagine that DC would actually make such a drastic design change on such a successful product. I would think they would make the changes more gradually over time. How reliable is this source??
  • sahargal: I don't know how reliable that source is. But I have read from other sources that all point to the jeep icon concept as the model idea for the new jeep. Hopefully it will not be as ugly as the one in the picture. I do know that the liberty is similiar to the concept version.


    saharanut: I agree with you on the modular hard top being a great idea. It has been a long time coming.

    Enjoy your jeeps while they last!!!

    here is another link on this "thing"

  • nkelly1nkelly1 Posts: 105
    Improvements are one thing, coil springs, heaver duty soft tops, better seats and so on. The law has changed the engine a lot where it may have taken another direction other wise. Yesterday my mechanic told me that the engine has 4 O2 sensors, just what I need. I asked him about the distributor, lack of, he showed me how the "new improved" system works. It works really good…….. when it works. He also said it is very reliable, BUT When it does crap out it will leave you right where you are. You will not be able to nurse it home, call a tow truck.

    Having said all that most of the improvements are probably for the better, insert hawking luggie here. I felt the same way, and still do, when they took the kick starter off the Harleys. If you can't kick it over buy a car. Change is inevitable, it is the way of things. But change just for the sake of change is counter productive, ask Smith Wesson.

    All in all Jeep has a good thing going. But it is a jeep not a Lincoln Continental or Lamborghini and this prospective should be at the forefront of any "improvement". There are plenty of SUVs out there, but there is only one Jeep and it should stay the way. I would like to see them come out with a built in CB or ham radio, a good trailer, duel door option, a more compact dash board, (for those of us that are over 6 feet tall and eat our food with a knife and fork not chop sticks), ect.

    One thing I did note was most, if not all, of the "improved jeeps" were all automatics… what's that all about? Its not that I don't like automatics I love them my 1911 .45 is my little sweetheart and my Desert Eagle (big sweetheart) is my companion when I am in the woods.

    In a Jeep I want a stick! That is until I get to old and feeble to handle one, then just put me in a hole and shovel the dirt in.
  • saharagalsaharagal Posts: 88
    Did you guys see the Dakar shown on the same web site cited above? It's with the other concept Jeeps. I sure like the looks of that one! Basically a four door Wrangler. Cool! I'd like to know when it will be coming out.
  • saharagal: I also like the dakar. But why? Because it looks like a jeep!! nuff said....

    nkelly1: I am in agreement with you about jeeps being available in manual transmissions. The "suits" are making decisions and I'd bet they don't drive stick shifts.

    OK, I'm posting a lot today because it is raining, actually thunderstorms......haven't been zapped yet.......
  • nkelly1nkelly1 Posts: 105
    The Dakar looks like a good design, but it would be better presented as a new line of jeep, NOT a replacement for the wrangler. It looks like a cross between the old Willys and a Rover, not bad really. But leather and walnut interior, 4 doors…? OK fine, then let them introduce a "luxury line" of jeeps, and leave it at that. If that is what you want then buy it, but if you want a jeep leave that open too.

    As for the "long wheel base", they have had these for years… they are call jeepnees (sp). Any one who has ever been in the Philippines has seen them, they are illegal here. Basically they are a "stretched" 4 door jeep. I think they hold 5 or six people (depending how you stack them). I saw one here a month ago, donno how they got it here, they are really cool looking. I doubt if they would be any good for "off roading" , which is the point of a jeep.

    If Dur Chrysler wants a "change" then start a new line of jeep, I was told by my dealer that the Cherokee is going to be discontinued, put the "new jeep" in that spot.

    This is a good subject, to bad old TsJay can't get in on it (yuk yuk) I know he is lurking out there….. come on TsJay I know you would love to get in on this. If this thread don't stay running till you get back, we'll wait for your late posting…. you picked a fine time to leave huh! :o)
  • yellowmanyellowman Posts: 209

    I saw a picture of the Icon when I went to look at Wranglers on my buying trip. Big thumbs down as far as I'm concerned. I sure am glad I picked up my Wrangler before it's too late! Looks like - sadly - I'll have to get a used one when I'm done with this one 5 years or so down the line. All I can hope is that they delay this Icon thing as long as possible...Or, as tsjay says, introduce it as a separate line. They're going with the GC and the Liberty at once, so why not keep the Wrangler around while testing the Icon's marketability? Only time will tell.

  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    I'll cast my vote that the '02 will remain unchanged, the '03 will carry the same body, but lose the 4.0 I6 and get the 3.7 V6, the '04-'05 gets a mild exterior rework, and the '06 could be a radical change or the end of the TJ in anything remotely close to it's current look. '06 is the first year that the govt. will be mandating better side protection, and the current Wrangler would not offer the engineers enough to work with in fitting the new systems. I would guess that '06 will see the end of removable doors, fold down windshield, and more of a spaceframe for the cage structure. Look at the Icon and Jeepster for the idea I'm talking about. The safety guys will have to have a fixed point to attach the side bags to.

    I look at the fact that DC could have easily offered the Cherokee and the Liberty concurrently for a year or two to see how it went, but chose to scrap the "old favorite" and take a gamble with the "new" thing. Not to be too selfish, but I've got mine and in a few years, I'll have it juuuuust right.

    One "rumor" source that seems to be well tempered and somewhat accurate:

    read through the archives and you'll see some interesting thoughts...

    While not exactly a 4 door wrangler, AEV does some quality work for those wanting a bit more room in their Wrangler. I have seen one of the 104" conversions and it was top drawer... Maybe for when I check out of the rat race and move to the mountains...


  • nkelly1nkelly1 Posts: 105
    I think I'll hang on to this jeep. If it plays out the way I think it will, in 5 years I'll be looking into buying a land rover (if they haven't ruined them buy then). The only saving grace will be after market products, to help keep my jeep alive. That is if the government don't out law that (don't laugh… they tried it a few years ago).

    I am glad I got this one when I did, wish I could afford another one. Looks like we all have a piece of history….. better hang on to them.
  • DC isn't coming out with the Dakar any time soon what so ever, it's just a concept they did a while ago. They aren't replacing the Wrangler with it. I still love that thing though.
  • jacknimblejacknimble Posts: 171
    Wow! What a nerve! I thought I was in the minority, but never thought I would get flamed by everyone on the board.

    Look, if you want a REAL Jeep, buy yourself an early Willys or CJ (2 or 3, not 5-8).

    Of course a Jeep is not a Lincoln or Lamborghini, but saying that improved ride, comfort, and mileage is not desirable is like saying a Mazda Miata is not a true sports car because it doesn't leak oil and suffer from electrical problems like true English tradition. Besides, if gas mileage doesn't matter, why do you check it?

    One more thing - Everyone that wants to stay true to the original should NOT have any of the following: power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, 4.0L engine (the 4 banger is still WAY too much power compared to the original, but its all thats offered), or radio. Anyone left?

    All I'm saying is as long as the new Jeep can truly prove itself as rugged, dependable, and has improved off- AND on-road capability, then why is it not a true Jeep?

    Change is not always bad, and if it truly improves the vehicle and its purpose, then it is at least worth an objective consideration. Jeez, there is no use in getting all bent over something that is just a concept - the REAL Wrangler (if its called that) replacement is years away. We'll be lucky if it is even close to the current TJ anyway with all the CAFE cops and safety Nazis regulating trucks now. This concept may the closest thing possible to the original.

    By the way, my favorite concepts were the Dakar and the Tabasco Wranglers.

    I'll take my new Wrangler with AC, CD, auto, AND a Dana 44!
  • saharanutsaharanut Posts: 134
    What are we geeting so upset about...
    a "maybe" its not worth it..
    isnt it choices is why we love our wranglers..
    soft top, dual top, no top, manual, automatic (my choice), color, full doors, half doors, no doors,
    tire size, color,
    how many other vehicles can be this versitile?
    personally i dont wanna drive around in the 1st jeep 60 years ago..I like my ac, cloth seats, my CD player..
    "cant we all just get along?"

    Got jeep?
  • wheelshighwheelshigh Posts: 30
    First of all, how can you decide what is a real jeep and what is not? Have you ever ridden in an original 1940 bantam 1/4 utility how can you say what is or isn't a true JEEP? Why would you say Willys and cj2s and cj3s are the only true there some kind of seperation line which causes later cjs and wranglers to not be true jeeps. Lastly, a jeep and what it is, is a general term which can be interpreted differently to different people. Sorry for lashing out I just hate when people classify what is a "True Jeep".
  • nkelly1nkelly1 Posts: 105
    What flaming? Who's flaming? Unless you're the CEO of DC everything I have posted has nothing to do with you at all. If DC is lurking on this board.... everything I have posted is aimed directly at them! If I had them eye ball to eye ball I would tell them a lot more.

    This is a text environment. It is easy to read emotions into a "statement", that aren't there. I have read everything posted and saw it as people venting at what was/is perceived as an unwanted change to something we all love and enjoy……. our jeeps. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Everyone has their own view point, and "I" respect all of them. I also have the right to express mine, without being accused of disrespecting someone. If that is to much to expect, let me know and I will leave the board.
  • dwranglerdwrangler Posts: 127
    I hope no major changes are done to the Wrangler so I can get mine before the changes. I would prefer for DC to not make major changes and let the owners of the Jeeps be the ones to make their own changes to suit themselves. I for one love to see the photos on the owners section to see their interpretations of what a Jeep is to them.

    Things are getting a bit stressful on the job front. Many people are unhappy and several maybe looking elsewhere for employment. I just hope that I can use my vacation time and get a better paying job that will help me with my top three plans. First and most importantly GET MY WRANGLER, since that accident back in October I feel on edge. That 18-wheeler's trailer came too close to turning my firebird into a convertable, which makes me want to get into my new Wrangler as soon as possible. I used to think I would drive it til' the wheels fall off, but not any more.

    Tsjay, yes I am a dog lover. If I had my way I have more than one, but I don't have a place of my own. That leads me to the second wish, a place of my own. I've been looking at an apartment but at $570 a month (not even including utilities), on what I make a month and the debt I have now that one's not possible. And the last is the job of course, but I really hope to someday go on a Jeep Jamboree. That sounds like a blast.

    Well, it's late for me and 6:30am comes way too early.

    Hug your Jeeps for me today ;)

  • yellowmanyellowman Posts: 209
    For me, it's all about the look. Go ahead, add A/C, better suspension, plush seats, whatever. As long as the outside has that "Jeep" look, particularly with the classic fender and grill, I'm pretty happy. That's my biggest problem with the concept that we all saw - too much departure from the familiar front end, windshield, and fenders. It's a qualitative thing, something where you look at it and it either says Jeep to you or it doesn't. Obviously that'll be different for everyone, but I think for most of us we can accept the Wrangler as a solid continuation of a great lineage. Hopefully the next changes will be able to maintain that lineage without any radical departures in the "looks" department.

    See what happens when you leave for a couple days, tsjay? :-)

  • tntbeautytntbeauty Posts: 22
    Not knowing what all the fuss was about (unusual for this discussion) I hit one of the links. Yikes! No wonder Mom is having me hunt down information on the new H2 - a new GM product, sort of a mini Hummer conveniently pictured at:

    ... it looks more like a Jeep than... well... this Jeep. What she is planning on replacing her current Wrangler with when it poops out. Luckily, based on Dad's Pioneer going close to 200K she's got some time left. :o)

    Sorry to those who might be offended, but add my vote the the "fugly" column. **looking at Drew to see if he noticed her "typo"**

  • jacknimblejacknimble Posts: 171
    Agreed. I was just trying to make a point that IF better ride, gas mileage, etc does NOT define a REAL jeep, then only the original can be one, because all jeeps have made improvements in those areas since then.

    Also, I would like to know what everyone else things is a real Jeep. Since the Wagoneer, Cherokee, Jeepster, Grand Cherokee, etc. dont look like the original Bantam, are they "Real" Jeeps? Willys wagons? How about the Hummer? (yes, it was created by American Motors. The military end was spun off as a separate company when Chrysler purchased Jeep).

    Gotta go, I feel a big hawking luggie coming up. :)
  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    Ahhhhhh. The sounds and smell of passion... The fact that we all get bent out of shape over a material object shows how much we care about our Jeeps and the image/lifestyle/functionality that they afford us. My plan is that if something happens to my TJ (accident, theft,...), I'll buy another one if I still like the offering. If DC has changed it to a point that I don't like it, I'll buy an older one and "restore" it. This is the same thing that I have done with previous cars. I love the look and feel of the early chrome bumpered MGB's (up to '74). This was before the govt. safety and emission standards killed the fun in that car. My choice was to buy an older model and restore it as opposed to buying a newer one that needed no work. Same thing for my '73 240Z. I loved that car, but once they got heavier and bigger, I wasn't interested in a newer one. I chose to buy something else even though I LOVED the Z car heritage. After 30+ years from the origional release, Nissan will re-release the Z next year. All signs point to a design that is very close to the origional I love. Nissan refers to it as Z-DNA. They made the designers look over and drive older versions of the Z when they were doing the styling, etc. I hope it pays off. Ford supposedly did the same thing with the Thunderbird. They made the engineers work around restored examples from the 50's-60's. They did not want an evolution of the car that was last sold as a Thunderbird through the 90's. The common thread here seems to be that while car companies may royally screw up cars that are fundametally great, the great companies will eventually see the error of their ways and issue a "proper" redesign. I, for one, hope it doesn't come to that, but if it does, I'll be wrenching on my '01 20 years from now...

    I will welcome some modern convienience to a new Z car (mine had no AC and wasn't available as a convertible), but will have to forego some of the things that "made" my Z. Nissan will use a V6 instead of an I6, but I'll get more power, torque, and reliability. Although I love the smoothness of an I6, this is an acceptable tradeoff for me. They will keep rear wheel drive, independant suspension, etc. to keep it a true sports car, not the luxo-sporty car the midling Z cars became (I liked the last iteration of the Z, but wasn't in the market for one at the time). Hopefully, they will have fixed the car's propensity to rust away, twitchy high speed handling, manual choke, having to manually adjust the valves once a year, and all the other stuff I would like to see "modernized".
    Hmmm. Maybe that's the issue here. Do we feel that the TJ has become as modern as it needs to or should be? (I know nkelly will one day figure out how to swap that sissy dash for one with a spedo in the center.) If we feel it doesn't need to evolve functionally or from a convienience standpoint, that the only thing driving change will be govt standards (for safety, gas mileage, etc.), and the marketing crowd at DC trying to figure out a way to reach more buyers. Just trying to provoke some thought here.

    While some may see the last days worth of posts as "heated", I think a little disagreement is healthy for everyone . We still have to be one of the most civil boards on Edmunds, if not the whole 'net. I am proud to be a participant amongst such fine posters.

  • It is amazing to see the response, and rightfully so, to an ugly jeep picture.

    Tywlie makes a great point about most of us getting bent out of shape over a material object. It is not only about the vehicle itself but what it represents, freedom, fun, adventure, lifestyle, individualism and even history. The wind in your hair, splashed in sun and the ability to go just about anywhere your heart desires. Not to mention the ability to add your own identity. That's what makes a jeep, well just that, a jeep. A jeep has always been know as a unique means of transportation. How many of you, before owning a jeep, would see a jeep on a bright sunny day with the top down and saying to yourself "I would certainly enjoy one of those if I had one". Seeing a convertible on the road just didn't hit the same nerve. A jeep is medicine for the soul. Have a bad week, put the top down, put on some good cruising tunes and drive for a while. I would bet your spirit is raised everytime.

    Now I don't fear change. I agree with many of you, change is usually for the better. But (and this topic deserves at least that), no other vehicle looks, smells, tastes, and acts like a jeep. Why would DC want to change, so radically, such an icon is beyond any of us. Yes, it is also true that the current jeeps are nothing like the old willy's in just about every facet except that they still look like a jeep and offer the same freedom as their predecessors. That new thing (my name) does not look like a jeep. Looks like something we all drive on mars one day.

    Lets face it, suits who probably have never driven a jeep are making decisions for the jeep. Let them change it. They will see what the response is.

    In the mean time, enjoy the rest of the summer with your jeeps and your families........
  • ottowrkrottowrkr Posts: 778
    Do you actually think DC is going to ruin the Jeep name and legacy. They know it is the bread and butter of the Chrysler group .The Jeep name is one of the most recognized in the world .Lookin4sahara don't think that the people who are responsible for the Jeep are a bunch of suits who never drive jeeps. These guys are big into Jeep's but they know that things have to change to sell more Jeeps and stay in front of the competition . Just look at the Cherokee ,its time had come.So they designed the Liberty The Liberty is a much better vehicle than the Cherokee .Sure the styling is a bit radical but I can tell you this baby will sell like no Cherokee ever could. Go and try and get one, in my area there is a 6 month wait . You cant please all the people all the time , but I think DC is doing a great job with its new vehicle design . Just watch what they do in the next few years. Also don't forget the Government mandates changes that auto companies must do for future vehicles. So maybe there wont be removable doors in the future or a flip down windshield, but you can blame that on the government not DC.
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