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Jeep Wrangler

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Comments

  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Jeff! Already thinkin' mods! Four inch lift and 33" tires!!! Yeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwww!!!!!!!!

    I WANT YOU TO WHEEL THAT JEEP BEFORE YOU GET THE LIFT! You just GOTTA see what a stock Jeep will do. PLEASE??? Come on down here and go to TB with me. We won't get too crazy or anything.

    Too bad you can't somehow take advantage of the great trade-in on those tires down here at my local tire dealer. You DID see my post above, didn't you? My bud (not really a personal friend, just a guy who gives me good deals on tires) would give you $375 to $440 trade-in on those five GSA's. No way to put 33s on without that lift, though. Could you get your lift put on and then come down here for the tires? That would be sweet, but then we couldn't wheel with your Jeep stock. That ain't no biggie.

    I'll bet with the 10" longer wheelbase, you can lift your Jeep further without as much change in driveline angle than would be the case for a standard Wrangler. Guess you would still need a T-case drop, but it wouldn't have to be dropped as far as it would on a regular Wrangler.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Learning to drive the standard configuration first will enable you to get the best out of any further mods.

    Biggest bang for the buck is a 2" suspension lift and 31's. It's a huge step up from stock in off road performance. Next big step, in both cost and performance, is a properly engineered 4"-6" suspension lift with 35"-37" tires. IMHO 33's give the worst of both worlds. The suspension lift is expensive to do properly compared to that needed for 31's. Ground clearance is minimally improved and COG is raised with little benefit.

    A well driven Wrangler on 31's will go virtually anywhere that you can go on 33's. The same doesn't apply to 33's compared to 35's though. Still, what do I know? There's lots of TJ's on 33's out there. Maybe it's because they look cool..............and there's nothing wrong with that!

    ;--)
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    after the lifts, what other mods do you recommend? I'm curious. :)

    -Paul
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Jeff would probably want to go to the bigger lift to gain belly clearance for the skid plate, since he has the Unlimited, with its 10" longer wheelbase. His Jeep would drag its belly on stuff that a standard wheelbase Wrangler would clear. (I'm talking breakover angle here.)

    If he goes with the four inch lift, then he might as well go with 33s, gaining another inch of belly clearance, and getting his differentials another inch off the ground, right?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Don't know about after, but before or as well as a lift, protection needs to be given serious consideration. A tank skid on earlier models (stock ones got better in '01), steering box skid, rocker protection, oil pan skid. I think tow hooks and a strap could be considered essential as well. Finally, if you wheel alone, a winch could be a lifesaver.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I must admit I was talking in terms of a regular wheelbase TJ. A properly engineered 4" suspension lift should really be using a long arm kit, SYE and driveshaft, adjustable trackbars etc., etc., as well as springs and shocks. However, there's lots of ways to cut corners to do it at a lesser expense (and capability).

    I've not had any practical experience with an Unlimited yet. Like any '03 on, it suffers less ground clearance than earlier models because of the lower belly skid. If the Unlimited will accept 33's with a suspension lift that doesn't require dropping the skid or modifying the rear drivetrain, then that might be the way to go for that vehicle. However, I don't believe that a 4" suspension lift will fit that description.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    With the longer wheelbase, I would think that a guy could get away with more suspension lift before driveline angles get too far out of whack. Not sure if a guy could go four inches without some T-case drop, but maybe he could. At least the T-case drop would be minimal, I would think.

    Since we are lifting for better belly clearance in breakover situations, a T-case drop is not exactly desirable: you are giving up part of what you gained with the lift. Guess that might be another argument for going ahead with the 33s vs 31s, i.e., regain the inch that the T-case drop cost ya.

    We all know that SYE and CV driveshaft are the proper mods for driveline angles, but that stuff is expensive, especially when paying labor charges for someone else to do the install.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    you guys are asking / answering all the questions i didnt' even know to ask (yet)

    thanks for all the information!

    what is SYE????

    jeff
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Slip Yoke Eliminator. It's an adapter that turns the sliding joint on the transfer output into a flange. The sliding joint is then built into a new driveshaft. This enables the driveshaft to run at a greater angle and still have a functioning sliding, or slip, joint.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    SYE stands for slip yoke eliminator. The output shaft from your T-case slips in and out on splines, since the overall length of the driveline must be able to increase and decrease as the rear axle articulates. This is accomplished by the slipping within the yoke of the standard transfer case.

    In a SYE, the slip yoke is replaced by a fixed yoke, which is shorter than the slip yoke. The distance from the transfer case to the point where the rear driveshaft is attached is thereby shortened. This, of course, necessitates a longer driveshaft, and there is still the need for the overall length of the drivline to be able to increase and decrease.

    That is where the CV driveshaft comes into play. The lengthening and shortening is accomplished in the driveshaft itself. I have never actually taken a close look at one, but I guess the splines and the slippage are built into this type of driveshaft, similar to the way the transfer case slip yoke works. (Mac?)

    The SYE/CV driveshaft combo is taking care of the driveline angle problem and giving you a set-up that is beefier and more durable than the factory set-up.

    To back up a few steps and explain the driveline angle problem, a suspension lift raises everything that rides on the springs, or, in other words, everything BUT the axles. So, your differentials, being part of the axles, stay in their original positions, but the transfer case goes up by the amount of the lift. This then changes the angle of the driveshafts, which run from the transfer case to the differentials. I guess because of the lengths of the driveshafts, the rear driveshaft (shorter of the two) seems to be more of a problem with respect to driveline angles compared to the front driveshaft. (right, Mac?)

    The U-joints have an operating range that they were designed for, and they work within that range without vibrations. When a lift of sufficient height is installed (usually above 2"), the driveline angle that results takes the U-joint out of its designed operating range.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Just a couple of points. The main purpose of the SYE is to relocate the slip joint....... the increased length of the driveshaft is a side, but useful, benefit.

    The added 'u'joint in the new shaft is a Double Cardan Joint, similar to the one fitted as standard to the front shaft. A CV (Constant Velocity) joint is the type fitted to the outer end of a front wheel drive vehicle's driveshaft. It's encased in a grease filled boot and has a much greater articulation than a 'u' joint. It comprises an inner and outer section connected by five or six large balls that are located in machined grooves. A picture would describe it better, I'll try and find one.

    OK, found one!

    image

    and another,

    image

    In comparison, this is a double cardan joint:

    image

    and a complete shaft with a slip joint in the middle:

    image
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Here's a link for an SYE "How To" with lots of good detail and pics.

    http://www.jrfarrar.com/jeep/install/tomwood/sye/
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    YOU DA MAN!

    Thanks!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • wheelsdownwheelsdown Member Posts: 250
    Tom,

    If you are still thinking about getting Thelma Jane Rhino sprayed,you might want to go to the link mac shows for the SYE kit.

    From the link, go to the home page (jrfrarr.com), then Jeeps. The guy had his '01 sprayed. He has an outstanding write-up about it.

    Terry
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    You're welcome, though it's probably more than you wanted to know!

    :--)
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Thanks, I will check it out.

    It will be a LONG time before I can spend the bucks to have that done, but it is still something that I want to do.

    I just got the wondeful news today that after 30 years of service with the company with them footing the entire bill for health insurance, I will now have to start contributing. Same as a pay cut. :(

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Check your email.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    That's what we've been seeing here for the last couple of years - no raises but higher premiums and co-pays for health and higher fees for parking. Net decrease in salary.

    Guess tomorrow I'll find out how much heavy wet snow an Unlimited can go through. Good thing I changed my wipers yesterday - ones that scrape and drag on a window isn't so hot when it is snowing. We've got several inches on the ground now, and it didn't start snowing here until after 4 pm. Is it OK to wish for 30 inches and to get stuck in my driveway - I sure would love to go out and play in it tomorrow morning, instead of going to work. I'm sure it will all melt by Thursday or Friday at the latest.
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    thank you,

    those posts had more information than a 300 level college course. I knew changing the angles created problems, but never knew how anyone overcame the problems it created.

    jeff
  • gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    Tom,

    I have a government job (so we all know I do not make a lot of money) in the richest county in the nation (so they keep telling me) and I pay over a $100.00 per pay period for an HMO medical plan. Plus 1% more so I will have metical coverage when I retire (only 18 more years to go). To top it off with…next July my retirement contribution is going up somewhere around a $100.00 (improved retirement…so they tell me) on top of the 7.5% of my salary I already pay. All this and I have not had a raise in 3 years and won’t for at least another 2 years.

    So, what I guess I am trying to say is I just can’t feel your pain. Sorry :(

    Glen

    I hope this helps you feel a little better about having to contribute towards your medical.
  • yjbobyjbob Member Posts: 56
    Looking at TJ's and unlimiteds (possibly in the distant future). Gas milage is pretty low. I have been able to eke out 22-23 mpg in my 4-cyl 2.5L YJ (5-speed manual.) Don't think I could do as well with a 6-cyl TJ, and the unlimited (4 speed auto) rated 14/18 mpg, kind of low.

    Is the 2.8 (or any other diesel) being considered for the TJ and/or unlimited? Is it a reasonable motor for these vehicles? What is the history of this motor? Is it worth considering as an alternative to the 4-cyl or 6-cyl gas engines?
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    at Camp Jeep, the diesel is being looked at closely for inclusion here in the US. I think they are waiting to gauge the success of the diesel in the Liberty before committing to it for the Wrangler.

    I personally think it makes sense - added HP AND torque at the low end is ideal for a Wrangler.

    -Paul
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    There's a little more to add to the equation than engine output.

    Gas/diesel fuel price differential.

    Gas/diesel mpg differential.

    Gas/diesel maintenance cost differential.

    Additional purchase price.

    Additional resale value.

    Expected length of ownership.

    Expected annual mileage.

    Other things to consider are the availability of diesel fuel compared to gas, plus the conditions you encounter when buying it, and the smell when you get it on your clothing and shoes.

    Now, I like the smell of diesel fuel, both burned and unburned. I also like the idea of a diesel engine. However, there are reasons why there are so few small diesel engined vehicles in North America, one of which is the high sulphur content of the fuel available here. Briefly, its lower lubricity makes it less suitable for the higher injection pressures required for Direct Injection (DI) engines and it makes it harder to meet US emissions specs.

    However, if DC gives the Wrangler a diesel option I'm sure it will be a runaway sucess.
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I got the same impression at Camp Jeep - DC would like to add the diesel. I'd buy one in a heartbeat, if they would be legal in California (the diesel Liberties are not being sold here because they don't meet California air standards.

    They are going to have to do something about the I6 engine they have been using. It's a great engine in many ways, but just too inefficient by today's standards. I'll be sorry to see it go - it is low-tech and lasts a long time. But I sure would like to see better gas mileage.

    As far as Unlimited gas mileage - I've been getting betweeen 16 plus and 18 plus mpg - nothing lower than 16 and only a couple higher than 19. Most of the time I get either just below or just above 18 - this is almost all highway driving.

    I still can't get over how stable the Unlimited is in high winds. It handles drenched, slushy roads quite well, too - we got some heavy wet snow last night. No problems with the soft top, though it wasn't much of a challenge for it - just for my cottonwood trees that are still covered with green leaves!

    The windshield wipers that were on it were dried out - they dragged on the windshield and left black marks. The dealership I bought it from didn't do much of a prep. Luckily I had bought an extra set of wipers at Camp Jeep and they worked wonderfully last night. Do you suppose I could get the dealership to replace the bad ones? It just bothers me that I had to buy new wipers for a vehicle I bought a month ago.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    but how long was it sitting in the hot and dry california air? Working at Edwards AFB, my wipers on the cars I drove to work dried out much faster than on my TJ, which I didn't drive there very often.

    -Paul
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Just buy 28" refills from WalMart or your local auto store for $2-$3 which will give you enough for four blades. You might spend more than that in gas going to the dealers and back.
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    i got home tonight and allen had bought a 92 wrangler!!

    jts

    already trying to negociate storage room in the shed i bought to store my hard top.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    That your bud who caught Wrangler Fever?

    How 'bout some details???? When are the two of you gonna convoy on down here and wheel with me at Turkey Bay?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    yes,, Allen's my next door neighbor, got the jeep bug when i came home with mine.

    i don't believe they have a computer, or i'd get him hooked up with this group.

    jts
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    When I picked up GiGi, one of the guys let slip that it had been at a dealership in Victorville. Definitely desert! And if the dealership was correct about how this color doesn't sell well, it could have been sitting there for a good part of the year, so it isn't surprising.

    One of the reasons why I was happy to buy the second set of wiper blades is that I go through them so fast. The ones I put on my Noble Black Steed last year only got used a couple of times and by the summer they were in terrible shape, so I figured that buying the second set and leaving them in the house would give me wipers for 2 years. And anyway, I wanted the free duffle bag that came with buying 6 wiper blades...
  • 99tj99tj Member Posts: 187
    Whatever they replace the I6 with, I hope it's reliable. The I6 is so dependable and long lasting it'll be sad to see it go. I've heard so many stories of it acting like the energizer bunny; it keeps going and going and going....

    -Dan
  • rankinhubrankinhub Member Posts: 19
    Couldn't agree more. I've been driving a '93 Cherokee with the I6 / 5-speed combination everyday for over 12 years and it performs now as well as it did on Day 1. Currently pushing 138,000 miles. That's one solid engine....
  • yjbobyjbob Member Posts: 56
    A couple of you have picked up used YJ's recently. I bought mine mew in 1995. My YJ is listed 'way back in post 1240 (I looked - it's still there).

    Still have it and still like it. Hope you enjoy yours.
  • koolbreeze2koolbreeze2 Member Posts: 252
    I finally got around to requesting a "factory build sheet" per your suggestion. I got a response within one day with all the info I need and more.I would recommend this for anyone who buys a used Jeep because the dealers seldom know what the specs are for any used Jeep someone wants to purchase. The build sheet is a little over 2 pages and goes into the exact detail of my 03 Freedom. Thanks again, very helpful. John
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    You are most welcome, Jeep Bud.

    So, do you have 3.07 gearing?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • jeepheadjeephead Member Posts: 49
    I would also love the idea of the diesel engine in a Wrangler. I've been happy with the I6, and love the idea that it will run forever, but it sure would be nice to have improved MPG. From what I understand, the US will have better diesel standards starting around '06 - '07, which will decrease the sulphur content. Once that happens, a lot of the newer and higher tech diesel engines currently popular and in use in Europe would run on US diesel. I also like that DC is putting biodiesel in the diesel engines in the Libertys right out of the factory. Biodiesel seems like a great intermediate alternative fuel until we get the issues with fuel cells and electric cars sorted out a little better.

    JeepHead
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    I hear from a normally reputable source that Black will replace Medium Gray with the start of December's production.

    Time will tell, but I'd wait a few weeks if I was ordering a new Wrangler. If it does happen then the Medium Gray tops and flares will probably become sought after collectors items!
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    that the Unlimited will be getting a dual top option soon. Not such a surprise really compared to my previous post though.
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    well i only got one choice,,,

    there is an unlimited soft top on EBAY, just the skin, no hardware.

    any ideas as to what it would be worth?? can the OEM hardware be bought separately??

    I've not found any aftermarket tops available yet.

    jeff

    ps,, for mtngal

    there is an unlimited hardtop on ebay now too,,, don't know what happened or why someone would be selling them, (stolen?? ) if the price is right I'll bid.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Sure hope your source is right about DC "bringing back the black!"

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I went to Jeep.com and did the "contact Jeep" thing. (Same means you would use to ask for a build sheet.)

    I asked them if they could confirm that black flares and tops would be made available again on the Wrangler.

    I had contacted them earlier, if you will remember, to complain about their dropping black flares and tops. I asked them then if they were considering bringing back the black, and their reply was that they had no plans at that time.

    They were able to simply say "no" last time, so if they say anything but a definite "no" this time, I am going to believe that we will see the black flares and tops again!

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I'd sure like to see the black again! I wouldn't be surprised to see them go back to black - they'll do what sells and if the grey doesn't sell...

    I figured they would come out with the Unlimited in dual tops as soon as they could get the production up and as soon as they were sure that it would sell.

    Jeff - I don't have a garage so I don't have any place to store a hard top when it isn't on my Jeep. The hardtop on the Sport has never been off, and that was one of the factors in my buying the soft top on the Unlimited. I really wanted to experience top-down driving. My timing was terrible, though. Here I have a brand new soft top and the temp has dropped too low to put it down (it was 28 at the house this morning).
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    I bought a $200 shed at sears, its not assembled yet, but thats where I'm planning to store my hardtop, provided i get a soft top bought, and provided the top gets in there before all the other accumulation around the house that doesn't have a place to stay, lawnmower, weed wacker, etc.

    jeff
  • koolbreeze2koolbreeze2 Member Posts: 252
    It has the 3.07 with a 5 speed. It seems to work for me. On road during the week and dirt roads almost every weekend. The dirt roads are not extreme but lots of fun. Thanks again, John
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    actually looks okay if you are a Raiders fan! :)

    -Paul
  • pigfarmerpigfarmer Member Posts: 4
    The wife's 2004 Wrangler (6 cyl.) has been knocking for some time now. Typically occurs at highway speed (i.e. 65 mph)as you gently try to accelerate or going uphill. Usually around 1900-2300 rpm's in 4th. and 5th. gear. We've tried various gasoline brands-to no avail. Had the local dealer look at it 2 weeks ago and they found some timing reference (my terms)out of tolerance. It seemed slightly better for awhile though she now says it's back louder and more consistently than before. Anybody had similar problems? I've searched their service bulletins and found nothing.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    as this is the time of year dealers shift to a winter blend. This has been noted on other forums here as well with other cars.

    But you may also want to find out exactly what the dealer specifically meant by the issue and ask what may cause it to do that. With it being only a 2004, make sure any issues with the engine itself are addressed to prevent any damage from occurring.

    You can also try a fuel octane booster to see if that fixes it. I use mid-grade in all my cars and don't have any knocking problems at all (97 TJ 4cyl, 2000 Grand Cherokee V8, 2002 BMW 325xi).

    -Paul
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Hopefully, you will hear from our resident technical guru, Mac24.

    I hope you have a "ping" and not a "knock." I guess some people use the terms interchangeably, though. A ping is not really a problem, unless it is very pronounced.

    Have you tried higher octane gas? You said you have tried different brands, but you didn't say that you tried different grades.

    If you are using 87 octane, try some 89 octane.

    Depending on where you live, you might even be buying 85 octane, which is theoretically acceptable, but in reality might tend to cause more pinging.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?

    P.S. Welcome to Edmunds Jeep Wrangler! Stick around and be part of the family.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I called the guy I bought my Thelma Jane from and asked him what kind of deals they were making on new Wranglers, in case I had someone to send to him to buy a Jeep.

    He said they were currently letting them go at invoice, and then there is the $500 rebate on top of that. So, a guy could buy a brand new Jeep there for $500 below invoice, counting the rebate!

    Man, why didn't they make deals like that when I bought Thelma Jane????

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?

    P.S. He also said that to the best of his knowledge it is true that the black flares and tops are back! YES!!!
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Tom is thinking about an Unlimited Rubi. :) Thelma Jane needing a stablemate? :)

    -Paul
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