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Jeep Wrangler



  • surfer454surfer454 Posts: 26
    Sorry to hear about your troubles. As you can see from my previous posts, my experience at a 5 star dealer was less than stellar. Hang in there. I hope things work out for you.

    Reading these posts about the rear swap kinda concerns me now. My vehicle is supposed to come with the 44 - in fact I have 4 way disc, so I'm hoping they could swap out the 44.
  • davids1davids1 Posts: 411
    It's not obvious, if done in a fraudulent manner.

    For example, was the vehicle presented as new with all the items indicated on the retail sticker. If the vehicle had the doors swapped, different wheels, carpet removed, and that fact was not disclosed to the buyer, although these items are in plain view, then the dealer is fraudulent.

    Should the buyer be more vigilant. Sure. Lack of vigilance on the buyers part is not a crime though.
  • bamatazzbamatazz Posts: 311
    CONGRATS man...
      Love that BLACK jeep.
    Tazz is fav color of a car to me.
    LOOKS awesome when clean.
    Did u know, only the PEFECT cars are painted black, every other color shows every blemish
    ( friend from mercedes told me that)
    so keep the JEEP lookin CLEAN!!

  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Not with you on swapping out the 44?? The Dana 44 is the more desirable differential: it is heavier duty than is the Dana 35. Maybe you are saying you are afraid you DIDN'T get the Dana 44???

    It's easy to tell the difference. Crawl under and see if your fill pug for the differential oil is made of rubber, or if it is a threaded metal plug. If it is metal, then you have a Dana 44.

    Also, the Dana 44 is not symmetrical along the vertical axis. The left side (driver)is larger than the right side. The shape is similar to a pear laid on its side, with the big end toward the left. The Dana 35 is more pumpkin shaped.

    As far as posting pics of that baby, go to Gill's web site and post them in his gallery. He doesn't charge anything for this service. Gill allows you to link your pics that you have in his gallery, so you could post them here in Jeep Owners Photo Gallery via link to Gill's.

    Once again, CONGRATS, Bill!


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    So I suppose that if the Monroney stated that the vehicle color was white and the color was actually Black, then that would be "fraudulent" as well? Wow. And just what does this mean:"It's not obvious, if done in a fraudulent manner." You're killing me!!! One more thing; just exactly where did you get your J.D.?
  • src48084src48084 Posts: 7
    Well, obviously, I did something right. I got a call from the Manager of Manhattan Chrysler Jeep telling me he wouldn't give me full metal doors but he would let me return the vehicle. I got a full refund. Thanks everyone for your help and advice.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    I'm thinking that he couldn't give you the doors because they were sold to someone else? Did they offer to find you another Jeep with the doors or is one of those "don't grace our door again" situations?

    Back to shopping?

    Steve, Host
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    My Wrangler is black, but it is rarely clean. It still looks really nice, even dusty and dirty. Glad you worked something out with it.

    src48084 - Now that you have a full refund, head on over to another dealer and look at more Wranglers (with an important lesson learned).

    Question - back in '98 when I was buying my Wrangler, one of the dealers I went to said that they would take a hard top from a Sahara they had and put it on a Sport I was looking at. They gave me the impression that they did it all the time. Is there anything wrong with the dealer taking the Sahara, changing the price to reflect the soft top rather than the hard top and still selling it as a new vehicle? (By the way, I did NOT buy that Sport - I knew it wouldn't come wired for the wiper/defroster).
  • hr0d316hr0d316 Posts: 1
    what are the major differences in all the diff types of jeep wranglers? From x to sahara, etc.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    The Jeeps start with the entry model, the SE. These have the four cylinder engine, with no option for the six cylinder engine. They also have only the Dana 35 rear ends, which are not as strong as the Dana 44's, and no option to get a Dana 44. They are geared at 4.11:1 for higher RPMs that the four cylinder engine needs to develop power.

    These are good Jeeps for folks that don't do a lot of highway driving, since the four cylinder engine doesn't get the job done for highway driving, especially in headwinds or on long hills. They are fine around town and on the trails, if you are going to off road.

    The next level is the "X" model, which gets you the 4.0 L inline six engine, but doesn't give you the option of the Dana 44 rear end.

    Next is the Sport model, which comes with the 4.0 L inline six and has the option for getting the Dana 44 rear end. The Dana 35 is standard on the Sports, but the Dana 44 is an available option, which, in my opinion, is a good thing to have.

    The next level is the Sahara, and, if I'm not mistaken, the only differences are cosmetic (different seats and color-matched, wider fender flares) compared to the sport. I guess some things that are optional on the Sport are standard on the Sahara. I never seriously considered the Sahara, so I don't know all the details concerning how they differ from the Sports.

    The ultimate Wrangler is the Rubicon. These are for people that are going to be doing some serious off roading. They come from the factory with 31" Goodyear MT/R tires (mud tires). They have a 4:1 transfer case gear ratio in low range, which gives you much slower crawl speed than the standard transfer case, which has a 2.72:1 gear ratio in low range. They also have selectable lockers in the front and rear differentials. They are a great bargain for people who would modify their Jeeps to a similar configuration anyway with after market stuff. If a person bought a Sport and added these features, he would spend much more money than he would if he just bought a Rubicon to start with.

    Hope this helps, but you should go to to learn more details.


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • surfer454surfer454 Posts: 26
    Hey Tom -
    It appears to be the 44 since it has the threaded metal screw. After reading some of these posts I wanted to make sure no one did a swap-a-roo on the rear. I had to run out and check (even though it is dark).

    Gonna wait on taking off the top - expecting rain tomorrow.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    Good deal, dude! That might be real important to ya some day, if you want some bigger tires, and if you want to go off roading. The Dana 44s hold up much better.

    Did ya see my post about gill's web site hosting your pics? I just gotta see that black beauty!

    Oh, yeah, on the top... they say it really ain't a good idea to run too long with both tops installed. I'm sure a day or two won't matter, but I wouldn't wait too long.


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • leafchildleafchild Posts: 24
    I installed the Manik front end bar (grille guard) for the factory bumper on my 2003 Sahara a while back. When I installed it, I noticed that the factory fog lamps and the top brackets of the front end bar couldn't fit together without rubbing on each other. (Which made me worry that the plastic casing of the lamps will eventually crack.) If I mount the fog lamp on the top bracket's 'hole for lights', the lamp won't fit unless tilted upwards, which would not be good for oncoming traffic. I called the manufacturer, and they sent me these extension brackets, which make me install the lights in a way it sticks up way in front of the vehicle, in front of even the bumper extension, so should I hit/scrape anything, the fog lamps would be the first thing to catch.

    Anybody else have this problem? If so, are you pointing the fog lamps funny, or are you running with the fog lamps for bumper extensions, or did you rig up something else?

    I think I am getting ready to rig up something else, but curious to see if anybody had any experiences/ideas.

  • jacknimblejacknimble Posts: 171
    Hey guys, long time no post!

    Right after buying my 2001 Sahara, I installed power windows, door locks, and remote entry. I've had a couple of people that after seeing the work, asked if I would install them in their Jeeps. I was wondering if you guys could give me input on this, such as do these things interest you, would this make a nice factory option, how much would you pay, etc.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Also, has anyone experienced downshift problems with the automatic when cold?
  • redkey1redkey1 Posts: 270
    How much did it cost you to do?
  • larry18larry18 Posts: 48
    My bumpers are finally here and installed! Took less than an hour to install both front and rear bumpers. Had the help of a mechanic so that cut the time considerably. Will try to get some pics posted in the near future.
  • 01r101r1 Posts: 280
    nolid5- These side bars:

    From Turbo City, called Rock-it Sidebars. Here's a link:

  • boredbored Posts: 300
    I'm no big fan of power windows. Although a good feature, especially for the handicapped, they are not reliable at all. I don't really know of a car that has power windows, and has not been in the service department for some type of repair for them going up, or down, terribly slow, or not working at all.

    Power Locks are a different story. That is one feature that I actually like. Of course, I don't mind bending over to unlock the doors for others, but in a 4-Door car/suv... it's not very comfortable. Occasionally, I wouldn't mind doing that, but daily... no...

    Keyless entry is the only reason why I would even want Power Locks. It's nice to have the doors unlocked before you get in. :-) Of course, once again, I don't mind turning a key.

    Nice features, but all of them are unnecessary, in my opinion. Depends on the person.

    Now, factory options on the Jeep... well, I don't really care, but I would only buy one with the locks, and not the windows.
  • jacknimblejacknimble Posts: 171
    It cost about $350, and took about 6 hours to install both of them. The power windows are made specifically for the wrangler and are first rate in quality and fit. The power door locks was a universal fit, so it took some ingenuity to hook up the locks, especially with the tailgate. I've installed them so the doors are still removeable.
  • jacknimblejacknimble Posts: 171
    Good points all, although I have only had problems with power windows once out of the 6 or so cars I've owned with them. I don't expect to have trouble with these either, but if I do, they have a lifetime warranty.
  • surfer454surfer454 Posts: 26
    Well 254 miles and the idiot light came on. I hope this is not a sign of things to come. The cat converter is bad - new one is on order :(
    The mechanic said it is OK to drive.

    I haven't even got the top off yet - but that will change this weekend - rain or shine.
  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    sorry to hear that you have a problem. I'm suprised the cat is bad, being new. I would have suspected a bad O2 sensor or some other type of sensor. Let us know how it turns out.

  • redkey1redkey1 Posts: 270
    Make sure your gas cap is on right, this can trigger the light. It takes a few starts after tightening it to get it to turn off.
  • bcmalibu99lsbcmalibu99ls Posts: 625
    According to the Canadian Guide to Lemon Cars, which I briefly read yesterday at a local book store, the quality control at the factory which makes TJs is, direct quote, "atrocious." Crying, crying shame :-(
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    That's sad indeed. However, do they quantify what "atrocious" means, and do they reference where they get their information. I tried to check it out myself, but couldn't find anything at all on Google for the "Canadian Guide to Lemon Cars".
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    There are several stories out this week about North American car factory productivity - more efficient factories generally means better quality:

    Chrysler productivity gain highest (South Bend Tribune)

    Steve, Host
  • bamatazzbamatazz Posts: 311
    I hit 19,800 miles my "idiot" light came on today. Taking it in tomorrow to get check out, It was time to get TAZZ all seviced anyway. I will just do it all at one time. Great reading all the post keep it going. U guys have more to say than I do, epecially TOM.. just kidding MAN, wouldnt be our jeep board without you.

  • redkey1redkey1 Posts: 270
    My faults so far:

    paint chipping off door handles
    faded fender flares
    paint chipping on tailgate
    rusting on door hinges

    While the engines are bulletproof....the bodies / paint are shabby.
  • guy21guy21 Posts: 129
    I now have 800 miles on the replacement transmission, 2,000 total on the vehicle, and thought I would post an update.

    On June 3, I took it back to the dealer who installed the replacement trans and stated that it was hard to shift and grinding between gears the way the first one did before it failed. The dealer had their mechanic drive the vehicle, but refused to write it up on a repair order. This was my 3rd repair visit on the trans problem.

    I am investigating filing a complaint against the dealer as my state's DMV has told me that I am entitled to one for the June 3 visit.

    I would suggest caution to anyone considering the 2003 2.4L with the 5-speed. Although the engine seems great and gas mileage is up in the 23 mpg range.
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    I was in this message board for probably six months before I actually got Thelma Jane, and I have now had her two and a half years. I think I have seem more posts about problems with new Jeeps in the last month or two than I had seen in the previous 34 months!

    Don't get me wrong you guys... if you have a problem, then you SHOULD post about it, but it is depressing to hear of so many problems in such a short period of time.

    Has the Jeep quality suffered that much since I bought Thelma Jane? I had a couple minor problems that were efficiently corrected under warranty, but some of you guys are having serious problems.

    Oh well, I can only say that Thelma Jane is doing fine, and she now has 32,000 miles on her. I am still IN LOVE! She is so much fun that I can't even find the words to describe what a joy it is to have her.

    Hope everyone's problems get taken care of soon. Owning a Jeep should be nothing but pure joy!


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
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