Jeep Wrangler

keats

This is so funny. I started getting Wrangler fever in 99. In fact, I remember coming to this board and reading about Tom trying to figure out how to get rid of that Pontiac.

Finally, in the Summer of 03 I settled for a very nice new 04 Grand Cherokee with select trac 4wd. The Rubicon had just come out and my wife kept say, "not practical." A year later when the Unlimited came out I told her I would have bought one of those if they had been around when I bought the Grand. To my surprise, she agreed to go with me for test drivers.

Well, the Unlimited ended up being "too practical" for me. So, I have been the proud owner of a new Rubicon for the past 10 months. I love it, love it, love it.

We sold my wife's car and she now drivers the Grand. So we're a two Jeep family. They looks so nice sitting together in the garage!

Just give in, like Tom and mtngal said. You won't regret it. I would encourage you to drive several different Wranglers, though. It's amazing the difference in ride quality and fun factor from one model to the next. Tire size and gear ratios and transmission all contribute to the differences.

karlw90

Hey all,

I posted on this forum a while ago, asking if the 2005 Unlimited had an option to have both the Hard and Soft top like it's smaller siblings do. It didnt seem it was availabe on the 2004 model.

Earlier, it was unclear on the Jeep.com website, however now when I go to "build & price" an Unlimited, there is a option of "Dual Top Group with Matching Colors", and it shows a picture of the Unlimited w/the Hard top and Soft Top.

When I inquired about this to a local dealer, they said that is wasn't available, and that I should buy one with a Hard Top and go about getting the soft top through Mopar.

Does *Anyone* know which is correct? Or even better, does anyone on this forum actually own an Unlimited with this Dual Top option??

Thanks again,
Karl

erickpl

from Mopar and take it to the dealer... if he wants your money, he'll work with you and wise up real quick.

Never underestimate the power of the Net.

-Paul

mtngal

I would have been upside down on the Taco, but I refinanced the house (lowered the payment, too) and took some of the equity and paid it off. The funny thing is that we said when we paid off the Taco we'd keep it for a while. There was nothing wrong with it other than the high mileage. However, we both hated it so much it was sold within a couple of months. After having the '98 Wrangler Sport as our only car for a while my other half was willing to admit a Wrangler wasn't as impractical as he had claimed since we bought it (in '98).

The extra room and stability of the Unlimited is sure nice, though, compared to the SWB Sport. We now have the best of both worlds - the fun of the Sport and the practicality of the Unlimited. When we finally decide to trade/sell the Sport we'll look at the Rubi first.

The Unlimited did NOT come with a dual top option last year (2004). It wouldn't surprise me if it were now being phased in for 2005, but I haven't seen it talked about yet. If it were me, I wouldn't let it be a deciding factor - I'd buy the hard top, then buy an aftermarket soft top later. If nothing else, it keeps the original cost a bit lower and you aren't financing part of the second top.

keats

Dealer is wrong, you can order with a dual top option now. I doubt it will be as popular as it is on the swb because the hardtops are unbelievably heavy. My Jeep video shows it taking 3 or 4 guys to get it off...

mac24

".....It wouldn't surprise me if it were now being phased in for 2005, but I haven't seen it talked about......."

I refer you to post #14912 from last October!

:--)

mtngal

As always, you're right on top of things. You have to give me those "senior moments" - that post was MONTHS ago!

koolbreeze2

Dan, sorry for not responding sooner but I just returned from 8 days in Aruba. I do drive some back roads in CT but they are very difficult to find. All are posted. I live in the area of many acres of tobacco farms and once in awhile just take a chance and drive the posted roads. In the non growing season I have had no difficulty but during the growing season its risky. You will get fined and possibly arrested for trespassing. Back to Aruba. I rented a 2001 Yellow automatic Sport. The island has more Jeeps than anyplace I have been.The rental agency had 30 vehicles and 25 were Jeeps. Its only about 16 miles by 8 miles and has more non paved roads than paved. The entire Northshore is all unpaved and the surface is spiny coral. Makes for interesting driving. Alot of water crossings, depending on the tides and no signs. The maps are useless so you are constantly exploring. Also no private property and the people very friendly. 85 every day (temp. not speed) and low crime rate. Never put the top up-even at night. Never went over 50-no highways. The driving is as rugged as anyone would want, especially in their Nat'l Park. Or easy for the dirt (coral) roader. My wife only got out once and walked as I manuvered up and down hill. She was my spotter for jagged coral. Anyhow its a good time. Also fished , beached, etc. But I enjoyed the Jeepin the most. Now to go back and catch up on what is happening in the discussions. By now I figure Tom has taught his dog how to drive and do a little offroadin. Perhaps he(or she?) could borrow Mac's Hummer:) Go Easy, John

scott919

I bought my 2005 unlimited a little over 3 weeks ago and it has the dual top package. It took alot of searching to find a dealer in my area that had one in stock and with the 6spd that I wanted. Most of the dealers I spoke with said that they didn't stock any with the dual top package because they just didn't sell many, but all said they'd order me one.

jeff62301

I have both tops,, but not "dual tops"

I got mine with the hardtop and bought a soft top on ebay from a dealer in AZ for $960 (shipped).

there has been a dealer selling hardtops for $1495 on ebay. if my math is correct and I remember what the options cost,, I'd say it might be cheaper to buy the soft top and then get the hardtop later .....

the other thing you might want to consider is your climate,,,, get the soft top on your new jeep, try it out,,,, then you have a chance to decide if you really need both...

our winter hasn't been as cold as usual and very little snow,,, for the extra $$ saved I wish I would have got the soft top to start and kept my coat on when driving on the coldest days...

tsjay

Welcome back, John. Sounds like a fun trip.

Ross Allen is a "he."

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

Anyone else finding that the link on the Edmunds home page that says "Forums" does not work? That's my usual way to get here, but now I have to click on one of the discussions listed on the home page, then click on message center, then click on Jeep Wrangler.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

stever

The link works for me, but I know that the IT folks are doing some changes with the stylesheets or something (ask Mac about his fonts... hmmm, maybe you shouldn't!)

Unless someone else is experiencing this, and I haven't seen any similar reports yet, it may just be something in your browser cache or cookies that's confused. Email me or send in a Contact Us form if it doesn't clear up.

Steve, Host

koolbreeze2

Hello Tom. My apology to Ross Allen. It was fun. Jeeps everywhere and no two alike. No Jeep wave. It would be difficult. You would have to keep your hand up at all times while driving or have your arm in a permanent cast. Met a guy from Kentucky who had been to Aruba several times but I could not convince him to rent a Jeep. No adventurous spirit!! Actually, I think the Jeep saved our lives there. A 10 wheel, fully loaded dump truck on a dirt road that crossed a narrow paved road we were on never stopped as we approached( no stop signs-just a strange system of right of way) and locked up his brakes and slid a good 100' while I locked up my brakes. He slid by the nose of my Jeep within 3-5'. He managed to keep the truck straight during his attempt to stop (slowing it down was more like it, no way he could stop). If I was in another mode of transportation I would have been driving faster and possibly been hit on the drivers side and squashed. It shook us both up. My closest call in years. I reacted to the sound of the truck sliding. Never saw him for a couple of seconds because he was flying. Perhaps he spotted the bright Yellow-who knows? The driver on the paved road supposedly has the right of way. So much for that rule. Good to hear from you-Go Easy. John

jefferson1964

Get ya an unlimited, there is room enough for your children. I take my 3 year old around and he really like riding with the top down. At least ya have a minivan for long trips but the wrangler is perfect for around town and if ya dont mind a little less room long trips can be done. :-)

chow3

Thanks for all the responses. i decided to make an appointment to drive the unlimited on Sat. I told the sales guy I was bringing my 6 year old to check it out, but I think I will bring both boys and the car seat. Wish me luck. (wife thinks the unlimited is not that crazy an idea\ I think she was afraid I wanted a motorcycle)
CHOW

tsjay

John:

When you left the island, did you say "Aruba-derci?"

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

stever

You're a tough act to follow Tom. Here's some silly cladding to admire:

Jeep Commander

Steve, Host

krispykeith

Yeah, the unlimited is an option I might consider. Either way it seems like the perfect time to have a wrangler when you have kids is when they are out of that car seat stage and can climb in and out on their own, but are still small enough to not need much leg room.

We never take the Liberty when we go anywhere as a family so it wouldnt really be any different with a wrangler other than a little less room on the 10 minute drives from daycare.

The wife is melting a little bit, especially if I will get a hard top for winter...maybe I need to show her the post from T about curing his trade-in issues....that might speak her language. At least now the window is open a little bit.

krispykeith

Sorry if this has been discussed, I didnt find much with a search. In the new 6 speed tranny put in the jeeps, does the 6th gear in effect act as an overdrive and lower the rpm's on highway at all compared to 5th gear in the old transmission? I have heard some complaints about the first gear in new jeeps being so short but I havent heard anything about the other end.

tsjay

I think 6th gear is about the same as the old 5th gear, which is a true overdrive with a ratio of 0.78:1.00. I'll look to see if I can find a post on the ratios. I'm almost sure I posted the caparison in here a while back.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

1st 4.46:1
2nd 2.61:1
3rd 1.72:1
4th 1.25:1
5th 1.00:1
6th 0.84:1

I searched on "ratio" and found my post, which was number 14757, I think.

Here are the ratios for the five speed, NV3550, that was used up until the new six speed came out.

1st 4.04
2nd 2.33
3rd 1.38
4th 1.00
5th 0.78

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

99tj

Thanks for the info John.

Aruba sounds great. A guy I work with has a time-share and goes every year. He loves it and says nothing but good things.

I can only dream of Aruba for now.

-Dan

gman1259

You must not live in California

koolbreeze2

Hello Dan. What town do you live in? There is a hugh car/vehicle cruise nite in East Granby each Mon. eveing during the summer. Usually 800 cars/vehicles plus each Mon. Sometimes many Jeeps included. Alot of the Jeeps are people from Conn who may have info on dirt roads in the state. Especially in the E.Granby and Granby areas. Look into Aruba for the future. Not as expensive as you would think. Go Easy, John

koolbreeze2

Well, you made me and my family smile. Actually a very easy thing to do. John

schafudd

Well the Unlimited hunt begins Saturday. I should have my taxes back by Friday and off i go to try to get a desent deal. I'm hoping to get somewhere around the Edmunds TMV price. If they come within $500 of the Bluebook value of my Eclipse i should be golden. I hate the fact that my trade-in will make or break the deal. Here's to hoping!!!!

tsjay

Scott:

Not that I am the world's greatest at trading vehicles, but until Thelma Jane came along, I sure got lots of practice. It might be helpful to you to read about my buying experience with Thelma Jane.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~tsjay51/thelma.html

Good luck!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

davids1

Does anybody in this community have any experience with the products marketed to stop oil and transmission fluid leaks. My 95 Rio Grande with the 4-banger leaks both a little bit of motor oil and an even smaller amount of transmission fluid. The amount of leakage isn't enough to require topping off between oil changes, so my desire to stop the leaks is to stop the nuisance of cleaning my garage floor.

I am considering buying separate products (i.e. STP Oil Stop Leak) for both the tranny and oil. Has anybody had any experience, good or bad, with any products claminig to stop leaks. I'm just trying to eliminate the nuisance of cleaning this up weekly.

Thanks,

David

erickpl

if possible. They end up gunking things up more. Chances are, if your tranny and oil are both leaking, then you have bad gaskets. My TJ was leaking oil from the head cover... bad seal job. I put in a new seal this weekend and so far, so good.

As for the tranny, where is it leaking - from the pan or someplace on the driveshaft? From the pan can indicate a bad gasket again. From the drivetrain, it may be a pinion seal.

Address the real issues and fix them instead of bandaiding them and you will find the vehicle lasts a LOT longer.

-Paul

davids1

Tranny is not leaking from the pan. I dropped the pan about a year ago and replaced the filter and fluid. What a mess!!! It was leaking prior to doing this and it is still leaking so I have eliminated the pan. I can't identify the source of the leak because the belly pan is in the way. Which, by the way makes dropping the tranny pan a real pain in the #$@. Come to think of it, I tried to drop the belly pan but couldn't budge the bolts.

The oil leak "appears" to be coming from the back of the engine, not from the top of the engine, so I think that eliminates the head gasket. I have been told that it could be the rear main seal, but I honestly don't know what that means. I'm more than willing to tear into it and fix it, I just don't have the time right now and don't have the previous experience to know what I am getting into.

Anybody else care to weigh in it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

erickpl

if the pan bolts are too tight, that would be a source of a leak right there. My tranny bolts only torque to about 25-30 lbs/ft. I overtightened bolts on my Grand Prix and never could understand why it leaked... It's tight so that CAN"T be the leak was my mentality.

If it is the rear main seal, a mechanic's visit may be in order. But call around and get estimates.

Good luck.

-Paul

mac24

Regard the miracle products as a short term fix. Handy if you're a second hand car dealer, but as useful as a Band-Aid for that axe in your head if it's your own vehicle. They work by softening and swelling the seals. The now soft, swollen (and weakened) seal works for a while until it wears away!

If it's as you describe, invest your 'miracle product' money in a drip pan from your local auto accessory store. Your leaks will deteriorate, but most likely very slowly. This will enable you to save up some time or money to do the job properly.

jeff62301

My Grandpa was the best mechanic I will ever know, his advice to me on an oil leak I had was "drive it, and keep extra oil with me". Now my dad on the other hand, didn't like any oil dripping on the driveway!!

jefferson1964

Keep us informed on how the "hunting" is going....get what u want and dont settle unless u wont regret it later......Jeff

jefferson1964

My son still uses a car seat. He is able to climb in back and get in by himself. However, me or the wife have to get back to buckle him in the seat. Its not too bad to buckle him in its just when he does not want to come out trying to get him out can be a trick....... :-)

chow3

I went with the wife to drive the unlimited on Sunday. We think it has the room of the liberty but with only 2 doors and a soft top. She was impressed with the size and very positive. Problem was we liked a 6 speed unlimited in khaki. This truck was load with flapping side windows and roof. Alot louder than the x I drove last week.. Drove a silver upgraded one and it was much much diferent. The khaki also had a broken wiper and we decided we were not interested in that vehicle. We were offered a good price on the silver one (22K) but I was not willing to to compromise on color as I have a silver LIberty now. Salesman calls today to tell me he was informed that all soft tops will be loud after 3-4 months I think the unlimited will be a great fit and will continue to look for the right jeep, MAYBE BLACK??.

wheelsdown

I have a 2000 Wrangler soft top. This was before they had the newer three ply sailcloth tops (2001 or 2002 for sure). Dont buy the story about them getting louder after 3 or four months. Mine is about the same as when new. Yes, a soft top is louder, just the nature of the beast. I my opinion , the soft top is better because 5 minutes gets it down when the weather is right. I live in the Chicago area and the soft top is plenty warm in the winter.

Terry

davids1

Thanks for the input. I kinda thought that everybody would take the "snake oil" line. Along the same line, i'm wondering if the Valvoline MaxLife line of oils would help. Yeah, I know, hit me over the head. I just don't want to tear into it right now.

Thanks

mac24

I think that oils of that type of formulation are designed to reduce the engine's consumption, rather than its incontinence.

:--)

99tj

Thanks John. I'll keep that in mind for this Summer.

Maybe I'll just "coincidentally" show up in Aruba the same week my co-worker goes down
He'd have to let me stay on his couch right?

-Dan

schafudd

Thanks for the advice. I'm really hoping to get a desent deal. I have a feeling they are going to try to "Bend me over" on my trade-in.

Also I have another quesion. someone i worked with told me i better buy a Wrangler now because as soon as the weather gets warmer here (NY) there will be no deals and no rebates, is that legit??

thanks again fellas!

tsjay

I use the Valvoline Max Life oil in my '89 S-10 pickup. The truck has 181,000 miles on it, and I drive it to work and back every day, a round trip of 54 miles.

The truck had 134,000 miles on it when I bought it, and I don't know what kind of oil was used by the previous owner(s).

Is the Max Life doing anything that other oils wouldn't? How do you prove something like that? Wouldn't my truck still be getting me to work and back every day, if it had never seen Max Life? Maybe I'm spending extra money for nothing, but their advertising convinced me to use it.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

embeeduece

If I recall from my days of Jeep hunting, there are of course times during the year when dealers clear out or run incenitves. That weather thing rings true, but from what I can tell, the whole U.S. autmotive sector is experiencing a looong winter in this economy.

I can't ctie any references, but I think dealers have monthly quotas. Every car on the lot is costing them money, and they want to move 'em. In a slow month, they might get more sale-friendly the last weekend of that month. There's also the axiom that with new popular models (like the Unlimited), they don't need to deal. "It sells itself!"

Sadly, these days even invoice isn't invoice anymore. They do something called a "holdback" which I don't fully understand. The point is that there isn't any reason you shouldn't be paying close to the supposed invoice.

If you live in an area with multiple dealerships, you can bargain shop (I played them off each other and got $100 above invoice). If you are in an area with one or few dealers, and you want a Jeep, they've sorta got you.

Somewhere on this Edmunds site they list MSRP, invoice, and market average prices, so you'll know if you're getting a square deal or not.

A final thought: once you buy it, don't look back. Never recalculate the deal in your head, never see what new incentives are out there. Feel good about whatever you worked out and enjoy the Jeep.

Long answer; hope it helps.

stever

We also list holdback, but remember that the dealer has to make some money somewhere to stay in business. But it's better if they make it off the next buyer and not you!

Steve, Host

jefferson1964

Loud after 3-4 months, huh??? Never heard this one before. Mine is relatively quite for a soft top. I can carry on a normal volume conversation with anyone in the front seat, but is a little tougher with someone in back. Also, i use my cell phone for work all the time and never have any problems hearing or being heard.......Do not believe this story your being told, maybe if they said 3-4 years and then just maybe.....

schafudd

E-Duece,

Thanks for the advice. I live In rochester there's about 5 dealers in a 50 mile radius. I should be able to get a desent deal out of this. All the current incentives run out on monday so i'm hoping they will want to move a truck and give me a good deal. That's how i ended up with my Eclipse (last day of a promotion, they gave me like 6,500 for a 4yr old Cavalier rs) so i got my fingers crossed.
I'll be reading (and re-reading) about Dealer Hold-back. Thanks for the heads up you guys!

Take care and Thanks
Schafudd

erickpl

I wouldn't even let a single dealer in a remote area stop you. Internet shopping kinda negates that. Jeff lives in Texas and got his from Indiana!

-Paul

mtngal

I hate the whole car salesmen-bargaining thing. So I emailed a number of dealers in the area. I used ones on Edmund's site, along with a couple of dealers I knew about. I don't mind dealers making some money off me, considering how often I test drive vehicles. So I figured the first one to offer me $500 over invoice would get my business (knowing they make more than that due to the holdback). The one who did that was one of the ones from Edmunds, and I had no idea where they were located. I was amazed to find out that the dealership was the closest to my office! Everything was decided by email - I just went in and signed the papers. It was GREAT (and how we'll probably continue to buy our cars).

GiGi, our Unlimited, is now just over 5 months old and the soft top isn't any louder than it was new. It has as many miles as many 2 year old cars, and most of those miles are high speed highway miles (it is our daily-driver). My other half smokes and always cracks a window when he lights up. The back window does softly flap a bit when the window is open. Traffic noise is louder than the hard top, but not that much louder.

jst

Would like some thoughts on two maintenance actions...bought my '99 Sport (six cylinder engine and the three speed auto transmission) new in '99; now I have 58,000 miles logged. Hope to keep this jeep for several more years, so I am paying attention to maintenance intervals.

First, the jeep owner's manual recommends changing the auto transmission fluid at 30,000 miles for normal usage and at 12,000 miles for the schedule B heavy usage conditions.

Due to short trips and the hot summers here in Middle Georgia, I have been maintaining my jeep on schedule B, and have changed the auto trans fluid at 12,000 miles, but this seems like an especially short interval. On this forum, mention has been made that the three speed auto "shifts hard internally"....is the heat build-up so significant that the 12,000 mile change interval is needed to keep the transmission from breaking down? ...if I had a transmission cooler installed, could I extend this interval?

Second, will soon be getting the tune-up due at 60,00 miles (plugs & wires)....when I had the plugs, distributor & rotor cap replaced at 30,000 miles, the jeep dealer recommended that I also have a BG major injection service flush performed to remove excessive carbon buildup. (He recommended this action before begining work on the vehicle.)I authorized the work.

Now, I have never had such work performed on any other vehicle I have owned. Is there something inherent in the design of the I-6 engine making it prone to excessive carbon buildup? ....or is this just a money-maker for the dealer?

...stated another way....since I expect to keep this jeep for many more years, would it be prudent to have this carbon build-up flush performed at every tune up....thanks...JST