Jeep Wrangler

tjy

In my humble opinion, regardless of where you live, buying a vehicle without A/C is a HUGE mistake....and you live in AZ...maybe the heat IS getting to you!? Hee hee hee....seriously though, you can spend a little more now (mind you spread out over all your payments) or a lot later (around $1200) all at once. I'm sure you realize trying to sell a car in AZ without A/C can present a serious challenge....I'd suck it up and buy the A/C..... I can't imagine the trouble I'd have trying to sell a car here would be without A/C and we don't get near as hot as AZ, although it is a disgusting nasty humid place in the summer... Even if you only use it a few times a year, on those particular days you'll be soooooooooooo glad you did!

tjy

P.S. - GO MARYLAND!!!!!!!!!! TERPS GONNA ROCK THA' HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

saharanut

hey y'all..
had a great time in chat last night
the hour flew by..Mrs. Nut..couldnt believe grown men chatting about their jeeps...(its a guy thing)
anyway..looks like it maight be awhile before I get my TJ..sniff sniff...Mrs. Nut..said we just couldnt afford it yet...now if some of you want to make a contribution...i'll take it.
Take care guys...think of me when your in your jeeps..
TSJAY...hug thelma for me..

Sharanut

markbuck

I live at 7,000' in the mountains, and have a big ol Crew Cab (A/C'd) for trips so I really only want a back and forth driver plus jeepin'. Oh ya, want to order vinyl seats, but this option only includes two front seats, no rear.

Can you get a rear vinyl to add in?

Agree, want the Dana44, cruise control, maybe the sentry key, but nothing else. If'n I'm gonna drive this thing for 10 years, and only where it is cool, and with a dog and maybe an outdoorsy female, why do I need A/C?

Seems like I could order a bunch of Durango4x4 add ons like a front and rear bumper and sparetire carrier, maybe some bigger tires,....

goducks1

You can get the back seat is vinyl form. Cloth all around is extra on SE and Sport. And if you are looking at the SE (which it sounds like you are since you talk about ordering the back seat as extra, it is standard on the 6-cylinder models) you can't get the Dana 44 or 30" tires group.

tjy: Oh, I'm cheering for the Terps and all the other ACC schools. I went to NC State when Jimmy V was the coach. Oregon sucks at b-ball, and the PAC-10 all around is a cupcake conference.

tsjay

CONGRATULATIONS! Did you get the exact time of birth, like I did for Thelma Jane?

What a bummer about the timing of your ski trip! What a tough choice that would be for me! I'm not a skier, mind you, but a chance to go to the beautiful Rocky Mountains or the Uintas would be hard to pass up. I love the mountains!

Just have that Jeep delivered here, and I'll break him in for you.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

Back seat to carry friends around??? Maybe Jeffery Daumer could carry some of his friends around after their visits to his place, but even he would have a hard time getting more than one in there.

But who cares? I'll take the fun over seating capacity any day!

tsjay

Have you hugged you Jeep today?

tsjay

Well, people, it's time for old tsjay's Thelma gas mileage report.

She got 18.6 tonight! Ok, that's 18.6, 17.5, 17.9,18.0,17.9,19.0 over the last six tanks. That averages out to 18.15 MPG! Yahoooooo! I'll take it! And she still isn't on Mobil 1 yet.

I found out this week that I really can go all week to work and back on a tank of gas (5 days).
I am not usually one to let the gas gauge get below a quarter of a tank, but I have to do that to get my five trips to work. The gauge was not quite to the very bottom of it's range, but it was close. She only held 15.906 gallons, though, when I filled her up, so there was theoretically still three gallons left. That would come close to getting me one more trip to work and back if I count on 18.0 miles per gallon (It's a 27 mile trip one way, so three gallons would just exactly get that one more trip). I'm not going to try that!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

saharanut

Yes..I have made my mind up...
The black 60th Wrangler is what i am after
the look great! The Interior is much better than the sahara...But..Mrs Nut has siad there is no way we can get one right now...but i'm not giving up..wish me luck guys..

TSJAY...keep hugging Thelma

tsjay

You just didn't understand Mrs. Nut. She said there's just no way we CAN'T get one now.

You could go get one and then try that approach, couldn't you???? Just say your hearing is going bad.

tsjay

yjbob

I may be the only other guy in the country who does not have A/C. Ordered my YJ ('way back in '95 - last millenium) with 4 cyl 2.5, manual steering, back seat, and not much else (see message 1232, I think). Funny thing, the YJ came with an A/C bracket - just no A/C on it - although it has an idler wheel so they can fit the same belt you A/C guys use. I prize simplicity not only because there is less to break, but also because there is more ROOM under the hood to work. (Have you looked under some hoods lately - can't get past the plastic air scoops, let alone to something real like spark plugs or oil filters.)

I live in NY state and have driven as far as Ohio with ol' YJ. Haven't felt any need for A/C, because I get quite a breeze when I open the windows (due to the brick-like aerodynamics of the vehicle, the breezes swirl smartly around the edges of the windshield). Soft top is a little louder, but not bad for me because I cruise at 58 (2500 rpm, at the torque peak of the 4-banger). I also get as high as 23 mpg at the lower speeds. As several of you have said, life is not all about how fast you go, but about how much fun you have getting there.

I have the rear seat, and my 2 kids (13 and 15) fit back there. Before I ordered ol' YJ, I tried out the back seat myself at the dealer. I fit back there (6'0") without hitting my knees. I call it the "mother-in-law" test (you wouldn't let her sit up front with you, would you?

If I were to go for a TJ, I would order a basic SE, and then get a rear seat from one of the catalogs - I think they are vinyl - and bolt it in.

Enjoy reading all your stories - they remind me of the time I spent waiting for my YJ to come in. Jeepin' is still fun a few years down the road. Enjoy.

shotgundan

Well I just got back from the store buying a 12 pack of beer. Called the dealer today and they show my NJ as being built but not shipped today. Well looks like I will drown my troubles this evening but he did say it could ship on the 17th or 18th and still get here by the end of the month. What a sad day today..... sure am ready to hug her......

loseit

Thanks onlyinajeep!
I thought i would keep you updated with whats happening. Went to the dealer to drop off my car. They said they would fix the leaks, i would have to leave it for a couple of days. Fine no problem. Then i asked about the shake. Which, by the way, i spoke to a tire guy about.....he never heard of anything like that!! They service manager (who checked the problem the first time i went in) says that the tech cant replicate the problem. I said to him that he (the service manager) was able to replicate it last time. I said that Iwould be more than happy to replicate it for his tech. Blah blah blah, i ask for a loaner (because i have no car) and he says that they dont give loaners for rubber parts or whatever. Can you believe that? The jeep is not even three weeks old, i have taken it in twice to my dealaer (who, by the way, i paid cash to) and he cant gibe me loaner. Unfortunately, neither the manager or my salesman were in at that time. This is amazing. I have never felt so taken for a ride before in my life. I replicated the shake up and down the street and at another dealer. I dont know what is wrong with my dealer. They are supposed to be one of the better dealerships. We will see what happens today.

I did like the 4 wheel drive in the snow last night, though! While everyone else was pullin over in the snow last night i reached home on time. Nice.

tsjay

Hang in there, Brother. Even though my wait was only three weeks and two days, I know how tough it is. The wait is a mixed blessing. It's actually kind of nice to have something to look forward to. When you're having a bad day, you can
look ahead and think about that great day coming when you get to pick up that Jeep.

I just about went nuts before I even ordered Thelma. It was literally months that I had Wrangler Fever and could figure out no possible way that I could afford to trade so soon after having bought the Grand Prix just a few months earlier. Finally, I decided that not being able to afford it wasn't going to stop me, and I did it anyway.

Hope she gets there soon.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

You lucky dog! Northern Arizona, 7000 ft elev., jees!

I have never been to you area, but I have been a few different places out west, and I truly love the Rockies and the other mountain ranges. If where you live is anything like Colorado, you are living in heaven! I spent a week at a Dude Ranch near the Continental Divide about 50 miles east of Gunnison back in 1988. What a wonderful week that was! The ranch grounds were at 8600 ft. elev. and there were snow capped 13,000 and 14,000 ft peaks nearby. It just don't get no better than that!!!

I have also spent a little time in Estes Park, checking out Rocky Mountain National Park. That is sure a beautiful area too.

Anyway, never take those mountains and that fresh air and LOW humidity for granted. Have you ever been anywhere in the summertime where they have extremely high humidity? It is MISERABLE! I could never even consider getting a vehicle without air conditioning here in western Kentucky. But out there where you live, I can see leaving off the air conditioner.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

I am so sorry about your Jeep troubles, man. I just can't imagine having the joy and excitement of a new Jeep being diminished by problems like you are experiencing.

I guess I ought to knock on wood, but after buying many, many new cars, trucks, and now a Jeep, I have never had a lemon. Now, I don't think you are ready to call your Jeep a lemon, but I'm just saying that I have never had any serious problems with a brand new vehicle.

The odds are stacking up against me the more I trade, but I sure don't think I'll be trading my Thelma for a long, long time anyway. I think I've finally found the vehicle that I will never get tired of.

I hope that everything about your Jeep that has been a problem will get permanently fixed and that you can start getting all the enjoyment out of that Jeep that you have a right to expect.

Please keep us posted. We are all pulling for you.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today? (even if it has a few problems)

twylie

Compared to the nonexistant (read none) back seat in an MGB, the Wrangler looks like a living room. Granted not much room to store stuff behind the rear seat, but for cruising around town, in the mountains, or on the beach, the fold and tumble will hold 2 friends just fine. I rode in the back when we were test driving them and at 6'+, it wasn't cavernous, but more than adequate for cruising around.

Talked to the dealer yesterday and he said he expects ours in by Friday of next week! If that happens, I'll bag work on Friday to get some break in mileage on it. Whoo Hoo!

-twylie

tsjay

Could my Jeep buddies do a senile old man a favor?

I can't keep it all straight about who has what Jeep or who is getting what Jeep. I also have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time.

Here's what I'm asking: could you guys please go to the "Meet the Members" message board in the Wrangler Owners Club and give the vital statistics about yourself and your Jeep (or Jeep to be)?

We're all friends here, and I have had no problem at all as a result of my email address being made public in my profile. I would like to be able to email some of you when the need arises, but without your email address, the only way to communicate is through posting messages on the board.

I think we are all interested in where the others live too, so maybe you could include at least the general area where you live in your post in "Meet the Members?" (And/or in your profile?)

I think that almost all of us have Instant Message, so it would be nice to have each others user names to put on our buddy lists in Instant Message. Chatting with fellow Jeepers is fun.

Then, give us a detailed description of your Jeep that you own, or have ordered, or would really like to buy.

And, of course, include the name you have given your Jeep! (If you are one of those nutty people like me that feel that a Jeep must be given a name)

If all of this info is in "Meet the Members," then we can go there and review the details without having to scroll back through the main board to find a post where someone has told us about their Jeep.

If you have already posted in "Meet the Members," but have left out some of this info, and if you feel comfortable giving more details, then please go back and post a new article.

Do you guys think this would be a good idea?

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today

tsjay

Brother, if I had known for sure which day my little girl was going to show up, I would have definitely taken the day off too!

I was at work on Friday, December 8th, when the dealer called about 1:30 PM and said, "Thelma Jane is here." Yep, they all knew her name at the dealership before she ever came in. Needless to say. I finished the stuff that had to get done as quickly as possible and hustled over there. It was about an hour's drive from the town that I work in to the town where my dealer was located, and it was all that I could do to keep from driving 100 MPH on the way over there.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

Hey, man, I should have apologized for making a joke about your Jeep troubles in the chat Thursday night. When you said your Jeep wiggles in the rear end, I responded that you didn't really have a problem, but that it's just a girl Jeep.

You are new here, and you probably don't know that old tsjay likes to make jokes but doesn't mean any harm by them.

If you have read my post #1519, then you know that I really do care about your problems and wish you the best.

Sorry, loseit. Forgive me?

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

Thanks for the info in "Meet the Members." I hope others will decide to do that too.

How can you NOT be a racing fan when you are from Hueytown? As you said, that's where the Allison's are from, and I believe Neil Bonnet was from there too, right?

Keep working on Mrs. Nut! She'll see the light before long.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today/

markbuck

BTW I grew up in S. and Central Florida and one of our houses didn't actually have A/C!!!

Don't miss the bugs and humidity one bit, only miss the flat roads for riding my road bicyle.

I do want the Sport... with vinyl, and if I understand yawl correctly, it comes with a back seat. Great. I'm sold. Gonna wait until after April 4th to see if the rebates get better. So, I'll be ordering the Wrangler sport with 5speed, stof to, no a/c and the only options are Dana 44 and speed control and full sized spare. Really like the Camel colored interior and top. Leaning towards PatBlue or Red or White for paint. Headed to Moab last week in April, will rent one to be sure....

ilvdirt

What is the largest tire you can fit on a 97' and up wrangler without a lift and whthout rub. I don't really don't want to lift my 2001 while it's under warranty because my salesman told me it would void it. I really want to lift it BAD, but i think i'll wait until i have really started to break it in. I've had "qualified" mechanics say 31" 32" and even 33", can someone help me please. The stock rubber SUCKS (in my opinion). Another thing I have always wondered, why is it that wrangler's have a 3 speed auto? is there an advantage over having 4 gears?

Drive Carefully

jacorob

From what everyone on the jeeps unlimited forum say 31" is the largest you can go without a lift. They said you'll need to put a washer or two on the turn stop to prevent rubbing in tight turns even with the 31". Obviously yur turn radius will go down slightly, but not real noticable - unless you make tight turns constantly.

PS - i wouldn't take my jeep to the mechanic who said it could fit 33" tires without a lift. Obviously he's smoking something...

tsjay

Hey, man, welcome! I wish I could answer your technical questions, but I am a rookie Jeeper too. I'm sure the guys and gals in here will respond with some good answers for you.

I can answer one question, though. You asked for a good source for mods, and I know that a lot of folks here go to quadratec.com. I've been to their site just "window shopping," and it looks like they have about everything covered.

Just wanted to welcome you to the group.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

Hey, I truly thank all of you who have humored an old man and posted your info in "Meet the Members" so far. I hope the rest of my pals will do the same. I think we will all be able to make good use of that message board. If you have forgotten the details about someone's Jeep or about the person himself/herself, then you know that you can go there and find the info rather than scan through a million posts on the main board.

There's just not much room in your "profile" to give much info, and it runs everything together.

Please see my earlier post (#1521) about everyone giving their vital statistics in "Meet the Members," if you don't know what I'm talking about here.

Thanks Brothers and Sisters!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

hosstj

Hey, I have 2001 Sahara with 2.5 in. Rancho rock crawler, with 33x12.5 tires installed by dealer. He has stated a lift of less than 4 in. would not void any warranty. I talked to an aftermarket shop owner today and he says any height will not void warranty if done properly. The best thing is to talk to dealer where you bought it, see what they say.

jacorob

My dealer told me that any lift over 2" would void the warranty. Regardless of what anyone says i'd make sure that if you want to keep your warranty and you just have to put a lift on it during the warranty period (understandable *grin*) then get a manager at your dealership to state in writing how much lift you can put on w/o voiding the warranty. I would also put in a clause about if the manufacturer won't honor the warranty simply due to lift being on that the dealership will. CYA. Dealers will try and get out of everything - especially with modified jeeps. Best bet would be to have dealer install the lift for you.

mac24

Any factory unapproved modification you make will allow the manufacturer to disallow a warranty claim, to both those parts that you modified and to those directly affected by them. However, it won't void the warranty on the whole vehicle.

For example, you install a 4" lift and some time afterwards the driveshaft joints fail. No cover. However, if the cylinder head gasket blows, the manufacturer can't refuse warranty coverage because of the lift.

Of course, the dealer that fitted the lift (or supplied the vehicle), may choose to cover you for the items that the manufacturer declines.

Finally, here's one to think about. You install tough new bumpers to replace the wimpy originals. Trouble is, in an accident they'll transmit the shock loading of an impact in a very different way to the originals. This will affect the way that the sensors work that trigger the airbag. It will also affect the amount of damage done to the chassis, and consequently the body panels. Who accepts responsibility for the above? Vehicle manufacturer? Dealer who fitted the bumper? Bumper manufacturer? Insurance company? You?

In my case, it's me. I wanted better bumpers with built in receiver hitches, so that's part of the price that I had to pay. I haven't had the accident yet, but I'm aware of the ramifications of the modifications that I've made.

That's the point I'm making. Make the modifications that you want to, but be aware of the possible consequences.

tsjay

Thanks, pal, for the nice writeup in Meet the Members. I think you summed up Jeep ownership pretty nicely in your advice to prospective buyers as far as the things they can expect to sacrifice compared to driving a car or an SUV.

What you didn't do, and couldn't do, is to explain the pure joy of driving a Jeep. That is beyond description! There's no substitute for a nice long test drive to see what it feels like.

Come on everyone else, please post your vitals in Meet the Members. It's going to be really nice to have a known place to go to find out who's driving what Jeep and how to get hold of them via email or chat.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

saharanut

hey brother,
yes..Neil Bonnett was from here too..
I just never got into the race thing..
I dont see the excitment of watching cars go
'round 'round 'round..
I have some neighbors that amatuer race. I hear them working on thier cars every saturday.
I'm just an ALABAMA football nut cant get enough of the TIDE!
Great Idea of getting everyone to sign the members area..
Take care my friend..
Terry

saharanut

There are car owners
there are truck owners
there are SUV owners
Then they are JEEEP owners...in a class my themself..

Its a jeep thang!!

tsjay

Hey, Tim, what's up? I need your email address. I was telling you about the dude ranch in our last chat, and you had to go. I got lots more to tell you!

If you don't want your email public, then email me at tjoh298765@aol.com, and I will then be able to answer. I swear, I thought we had exchanged emails, but I guess I'm thinking of our chats.

Hope you come back in one piece from Utah. Jeepers, if you ain't careful, you might have to perform Chiropractic on YOURSELF!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

Hey, man, you're up and at it this morning, I see.

What's new? Making any progress with Mrs. Nut on getting her blessings on that new Jeep?

Too bad your last name doesn't start with a "J" like mine does. I told my wife that since everyone calls me "TJ" at work, and since Jeeps are now called "TJ's," it must be a sign from the Lord that I should have a new Jeep. (She didn't buy that anyway, but it might have been worth a try on Mrs. Nut)

Later, Dude

tsjay

Have you hugged Mrs. Saharanut today? (That might help get you that Jeep)

tonkadave

I went to see a couple of 60th anniversary wranglers at my local dealer. follow the link to see a few pics.

http://matchboxes.homestead.com/thelma.html

saharanut

hmmm lets see..
name is Terry And I do wanna a jeep
Terry's Jeep?

TJ...Thats it!
thanx for the link tonkadave!

Terry

spyrodragon

It just depends on what you want to do. If you want to off-road with your sway bars disconnected you can only fit 30's without rubbing the flares. If you have a Sahara you can get away with 31's because the flares are bigger. If you just want to drive it on the road... You CAN fit 33's. You've just gotta get extended bumpstops and backspaced wheels so you can turn. I saw this on a jeep in St. Louis and the wheel's were about 1-2 inches from rubbing the flares sitting on level ground. SO it just depends on what ya wanna do man.

spyrodragon

Well friends. My girlfriend and I just got back from Tellico NC. There was a jeep run there this weekend and we took her jeep. Here's some pics of just some of the stuff she did... She was the ONLY stock jeep in this group that was running intermediate trails and she impressed them all! Go Alee!

tsjay

Hi, everyone!

I have just updated Thelma Jane's web page. Just some text, and no new pics. Nothing to get excited about.

If you have nothing to do more exciting than watching paint dry, you might want to check out the page.

It's just stuff that I have already posted about.

http://members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html

Be talking at ya later, Jeep Buddies.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

loseit

Well, i definately fell in love with my jeep this Weekend It was snowing like crazy here. I was dtriving home at night and everything was full of snow. I put it in 4 wheel drive and ripped down the road. that was fun!! Then Saturday moring the streets were not plowed.....nore fun. The weather was real nice thru Saturda and Sunday. Washed her and took the top down! Alright, i'm sold....but can i trade in my dealership? Tsjay and everybody else...thanks for the support . Tsjay, you can tell as many jokes as you want!

jspence1

Hey everybody,

I just got a 2001 Sport (Blk w. tan soft top) and noticed that there is rust on one of the pieces directly behind the front bumper. Is this normal for Jeeps? I've heard some say that it is "surface rust" but this is a new vehicle, should it be already rusting? Anyone who has dealt with this please let me know what you think...I'm off to the dealer to look at the other wranglers on the lot and see if they have the same problem.

Feel free to email at jspence@carolina.rr.com

saenzski

I have the same thing, but have not questioned it. Will you email me once you figure something out?

Thanks, I too am wondering if this is okay.

email:

saenzski@yahoo.com

Website:

http://www.angelfire.com/geek/jeep/

hrtnsoul

Does anyone have any 'tried and true' tips on keeping the soft top and windows looking new? Thanks!!

jacorob

My jeep had the same thing. I even took pictures of it at the dealership cause it worried me. Then i looked through the entire line of jeeps at the dealership (about 30) and they all had the same rusted part. So i'm not too concerned.

Bob

thedude1

Wondering if anyone has any idea of approximately when cutoff for ordering 2001 will be this year, and if ordering after that, when could delivery of a 2002 be expected?

I have a car coming off lease in August, so timing is important to me.

Thanks

humphreys

I have been following the discussions for the past several months, and finally test drove on Friday. I am ready to order. Went to local dealer and am getting the run around regarding advertising charges. They are quoting a price that is 500 over invoice and saying that it is really 100 over invoice, because they consider advertising and insurance to be invoice charges. Anyway, I have a good quote from CarsDirect.com, ($300 over invoice less $500 rebate = $200 under)

Is there anybody out there who has experience with Cars Direct? Anybody buy a jeep any ware in San Dingo with advice on price? I am shopping the Cars Direct Price with other dealers.

By the way, the most important info is the jeep:

2001 Sport I model, I/ Canyon Wheel Package, Dan 44, TracLoc, DC, AC, Subwoofer, Sentry Key, Full Metal Doors and steps. Green with Camel Interior and Dark Tan Top. (it makes me happy just to type the words, but I want to get the deal done).

Thanks for the advice.

patent777

Jeep dudes,

I have a 97 Wrangler Sport with the upgraded factory aluminum wheels (the version with round holes, not spokes). After a few years, I noticed sort of a "worming"-effect corrosion forming under the outside coating on the aluminum. It is whitish in color, and looks just like "worm-wood" patterns (for you antique buffs). It may have been tied to brake dust, as I would tend to leave alot of dust on the wheel and not wash it off too often. It is now on all 4 wheels (due to rotation of wheels from the front, where all brake dust seems to form).

Is this a common ailment?? Do I have any recourse from the factory (I'm still under hovering under a 75,000 mile warranty)?? While it doesn't affect the integrity of the wheel, they certainly ain't as pretty as the original smooth aluminum. Bugs me if the factory screwed up some sort of coating and now I'm stuck with it.

Please let me know if anybody knows what this phenomenon is, and what might be done.

Thanks!!!!

yellowman

Hey Humphreys (and everyone else)

I ordered a Solar Yellow SE on March 3, and my dealership tells me it will arrive the first week in April. Like you, I started my search with CarsDirect.com and was pleased with their price. From there, I phoned various dealerships and got a range of price quotes. For the record, the SE I wanted had the following options: Manual, I-4 Engine, Air Conditioning, Convenienve Group, Convenience Group I, Body Sidesteps, Add-a-Trunk, CD Player, Full Face Tire & Wheel Group, Sentry Key, Cloth Seats, Black Hard Top.

I decided to compare prices without factoring in the $500 rebate, since I knew the dealers would try to use this to confuse me. So without the incentive, the CarsDirect.com price was $19,397 - about $400 over invoice. The prices I got from dealers ranged from $19,400 down to $18,600. (The latter I didn't totally trust...I felt like I was being lowballed, since it was almost too good to be true) All the dealers ran a locate to see if they could find what I wanted and no one could do it, so I was going to have to order it from the factory. I wound up visiting some of the dealerships and they were all offering too little on my trade-in (a 95 Saturn). I finally decided to kick the trade-in out of the deal and sell it on my own. It was time to do the deal. I went to one last dealership who claimed to have found exactly what I wanted, but it had a soft top instead of a hard top. No problem, they said, we can put a hard top on it for you and you'll have it in just a few days instead of 6-8 weeks. So I said it sounded good, and they went to prepare the price. When the salesman came back in, my jaw almost dropped. He had written "$24,000" on a piece of paper. They were claiming that because the top would be aftermarket, it would cost more to put in than if it was factory installed. But this was ridiculous, and I told him. They then brought in someone else to throw numbers at me, and after about an hour we had gotten to where they were offering $19,300 (after $500 incentive) for their car and I had another offer somewhere else for $19,100 (before incentive, which they were trying to tell me I wouldn't get because the car wouldn't arrive before the incentive expires on April 3). Long story less long, we decided to scrap the idea of taking the one they found and then modifying it, and we went back to the "order from the factory" plan. We negotiated for another hour and a half and I finally got the price down to $18,971 (before the $500 rebate). I was pretty happy I had avoided their traps and their attempts to con me. One salesman even tried to tell me the incentive was only good on automatics, and not on stick shifts (which, as he soon discovered, is BS).

In any case, the point is I did wind up getting a better deal than I would have from CarsDirect.com. My question is, what are people's experience with incentives? One dealership told me he'd honor the incentive no matter what even though the fine print says the customer must take delivery by 4/3/01. My Jeep will arrive the first week in April, maybe before 4/3 and maybe after. Another salesman said the incentive may well be more than $500 after April 3, and so it may be beneficial to get it after that date. And I just looked at CarsDirect.com and they're now listing the incentive as expiring on April 30, not April 3, as it says on the Jeep website. Any ideas? I'm really excited about the new arrival, but it sure would be nice to have that extra $500.

Mike (first-time poster, soon to be first-time Jeep owner)

yellowman

Howdy

As I mentioned in my last post, my first Jeep (Hard Top Solar Yellow SE) is on the way to me, and I'm already starting to imagine ways I'm going to drive it (hard top on, top off, etc.) I'd like to take the top off from time to time to drive to the beach, but I think top off and full doors looks a little weird. On the other hand, I'm not inclined to buy half-doors for $500 (or more), especially if it's going to be a big hassle to switch the top AND the doors all the time (which I suspect it will be). My questions are, (1) is it legal to remove my doors when I want to go topless, (2) how much of a pain is it to remove and replace the full doors, and (3) is it possible the doors won't close right or the hard top won't fit right when I try to put them back on?

Thanks for any information for a newbie.

Mike

loseit

I was real concerened about the rusting too. I guess it is normal. I went to three diffrent dealerships to make sure. They all had it. The tech reassured me that it was normal. I definatley confirmed it, i think that it happsns in every car...you dont see it on them because you never see the bottom.