Jeep Wrangler

keats

Ahh, the ebb and flow of the Edmunds Jeep board, a fury of activity followed by days of nothing. *lol*

mtngal

Been pretty quiet today.

Tom - how often do you have to get the front end aligned? One of the problems with living in SoCal is that we get rain very rarely, so the roads are normally in excellent shape. All this rain has created all kinds of potholes that can't be avoided and GiGi has developed a shimmy - I guess it's time to get an oil change, rotate the tires and align the front end. It got me wondering how often those who off-road all the time get their front ends aligned.

tsjay

I guess Thelma Jane pretty well STAYS out of alignment.

No way I can afford to have her aligned after every wheelin' trip, and that's about what it would take.

Some folks set their own toe-in, but I never learned to do that.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

twylie

Here is a good page on identifying the various steering components. I set my own toe in and adjusted the steering wheel center after doing my lift. With two people, you can do both in about 15 minutes.

http://members.cox.net/revolvr/jeeptech6.htm#ALIGN101

-twylie

erickpl

Great site.. More DIY is always good!

mtngal, as for the roads, if you are getting a shimmy, it is POSSIBLE some of the weights used to keep your tires balanced have come off. When you go in for an alignment, you might want to have them do a balance. You might also want to do a visual inspection of the wheels to see if you can notice where a weight may have been. Some of those potholes can get pretty deep and I doubt Caltrans knows how to fix them right!

-Paul

mtngal

I had thought about the balance also - figure I'll get them to do that since I need the tires rotated also. Guess I should get them to check the rotors and brake pads also.

Thanks for the web site, twylie - it's always interesting to find out more about how things work.

Caltrans is too busy trying to open roads blocked by landslides and 50 foot wide sink holes to worry about potholes, I think. I was getting on the freeway yesterday and thought I was on a slalom course, dodging potholes! And you are right - since we normally don't get many, they aren't equipped to deal with the massive numbers we've got now.

01r1

Well, I didn't need the Jeep today to visit the mountain, it came to me (almost).

Here's the view from my street:



-Pete

keats

Me thinks it's time to move! I have Goodyear MT\Rs, but I think I would buy LavaTRS if I lived on your street.

Awesome pic, thanks for sharing.

99tj

Incredible pic Pete, Thanks.

-Dan

mtngal

AWESOME PHOTO! I don't think I'd want to get much closer, even with 4WD.

tsjay

Pete:

Nice job with the camera (as always).

Is Mt St. Helens really that prominent from town, or is that the effect of the telephoto lens? How far are you from Mt St. Helens?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay

Trey:

Thanks! I have that site bookmarked now.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

01r1

Good question Tom. Yes, it is that prominent from here (but I'm not really in the city, folks in Portland are further away from the mountain than me). I live roughly 40 miles from the mountain, as the crow flies. There's lots of hills and trees (usually clouds too) around here, but when you get a clear line of sight towards the mountain, it's a very good close up view.

As far as Jeeps go, there's not really any good off-road areas around the mountain. The whole volcanic monument area around the mountain is pretty limited access. They have a few primary hiking trails that circle the perimeter and up to the rim. But it's mostly paved roads up to the trailheads. The good Jeep areas are around Mt. Adams, the next volcano SE from St Helens.

-Pete

4cyl

Just picked up my 1997 wrangler - im still in the office - canr wait to get out!!

Do the 5.25 speakers really fit with the brackets I have seen available? thanks If anyone has suggestions on the best sound for the cheapest im listenting

thanks

tsjay

I ordered a Skid Row engine skid today. I think I have been pushing my luck with all the wheelin' I've done without any oil pan protection.

Trey, was the installation pretty easy on yours?

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

olbrian

I had the same problem with my 04 Wrangler. They balanced the tires, and said a weight had come off. I had a violent shake at about 50 mph, and that fixed it.

iconoclast

I have heard so many different stories about the difference in ground clearance so I went and measured both. I also heard the Rubicon has 2" more lift than an Unlimited. Here are my findings and why I'm asking:
Clearance from ground to gas tank: R 12"; U 11"
Clearance from ground to rear diff: R 9"; U 8.5"
Clearance from ground to mid-skid: R 10.5"; U 9.5"
Clearance from ground to front diff: R9"; U9"
If this is the case, wouldn't a 31" tire on the Unlimited bring it up to the same ground clearance as the Rubicon? There is plenty of space in the wheel wells. Anybody got an answer? I want an Unlimited and put 31" tires on it. Possible?

tsjay

A Wrangler, whether Unlimited or short wheel base, can take 31" x 10.50" tires with no modifications.

The only possible exception is that some Jeeps need to have washers installed on the steering stops to prevent the tires from rubbing on the lower control arms at full turn of the steering wheel.

There's just enough difference in Jeeps that some require the washers and some don't. Mine did not require washers.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

jeff62301

that unlimited with 31's may high center on the same bumps that a SWB jeep will just cruise right over like it wasn't there..

if you are asking if we think you should buy a jeep,,, everyone on here is going to say YES!!

if you are asking about the unlimited,, I for one,, will say YES!! I've never had a jeep before, but I needed the extra room, I can't seem to go anywhere without taking 1/2 of everything I own.

twylie

great addition to your Jeep. Mine has paid for itself a few times over already. Only issue I had in installing it was that the lower control arm bolt that is (re)used to hold it had to be flipped inside to outside on mine. Expect 30 min or so tops for install.

-twylie

tsjay

Thanks a bunch, Trey.

erickpl

Yes 5.25's will fit in the dash, but you will have to either cut the metal frame around where the 4x6's went (my choice) or get a special adapter.

I put 6x9's in the soundbar.

To get good sound in a Jeep is tough. Probably the best way to get power - get a new head unit and an amp. Not really the cheapest. If you can't go that route, new speakers will help, but the head unit is not pushing enough power to make them sound good at volume (they'll distort too).

-Paul

erickpl

Ready for Tellico eh?

Good news for me today... my wife drove my Wrangler yesterday for some errands. Her comment - new need new suspension.

I can begin to hear the chants of O-M-E, O-M-E, O-M-E in the background and getting louder!

-Paul

schafudd

I picked up my Unlimited 2 almost 2 weeks ago. The first night I had it I had to get rid of the stock (construction paper) speakers.
I put Polk Audio 5.25 in my speaker pods (not a full sound bar just a speaker and a light in each corner) and i put Polk Audio 4X6's in the dash. Great speakers with great RMS values. They sound like [non-permissible content removed]. Now I''m saving for a new head unit. The stock head just can't push enough juice. My speakers should sound great once i get my new head unit.

koolbreeze2

Greetings Tom. Thinking of getting 31" x 10.50-no mods. What has your experience been per highway handling, gas milage, looks,and performance in snow per the 31"x10.50" tires compared to the stock Wranglers? Any info is helpful and appreciated. Thanks, John

schafudd

I live in NY. I have a new Unlimited with the stock GSA's (Get Stuck Anywheres) and I can't wait to get a set of Bf Goodrich t/a KO's (31X10.5) they are killer in the snow. I have 3 friends up here who have Wranglers and they all roll on BF Goodrich 31's.

Happy Trails
Scott

tsjay

John:

My first "mod" for Thelma Jane was to get rid of the factory GSA'a and replace them with some 31 x 10.50" BFG All Terrain T/A KO's.

If I didn't go off roading and encounter all the mud that I do, I would still be running that type of tire. They were great for handling, looks, and tread wear (only had them on there for 6K miles, but there was virtually no tread wear showing for those miles).

I went to the BFG Mud Terrains, because as good as those AT's were, they just didn't cut the mustard in mud. Nothing but a mud tire is good in mud.

One of the secrets to getting the best ride, handling, and tread life is proper tire inflation. Too many people are running way too much pressure. A Jeep is a light vehicle, and there is no need to air up those BFG All Terrains more than about 28 psi. That's where I got the best "feel" with mine, and that's where I currently run my BFG Muds.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

iconoclast

The only real question is whether 31" tires will fit on an Unlimited without a lift. Will the tires rub or hit the fender flares on a hard bump. Connor Klink says they will (tire expert on Edmunds)and others say they will not. Is the Rubicon body lifted 2" higher than an Unlimited to prevent the 245/75R16 (a 31" tire) from rubbing and hitting?

tsjay

With your factory wheels, which are backspaced about 5.5 inches, the tires tuck inside the flares when the axle comes to the apex of its travel, even with the sway bar disconnected for wheelin'. If you don't disconnect your sway bars, the tires won't even come close to hitting the flares.

There is a possibility that there could be some minor rubbing of the inside of the tire on the lower control arms when the steering wheel is turned to full lock. There is just enough natural variation among individual Jeeps that this is happens on some and doesn't happen on others. If it happens, the fix is very easy: just put some washers on the steering stops.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

keats

No, the Rubicon is not lifted. However, the coils and shocks are stiffer than most Wrangler models, and of course, a half inch of height is gained from the 31" MTRs over the 30" GSAs. I believe the Unlimited has the same shocks and coils...

So to summarize, go get you some 31" they'll fit fine.

koolbreeze2

Thanks. I appreciate the information. Time for me to make the move. New York state is definately snow country. You must still have a pile up there. John

koolbreeze2

Thanks Tom . You always take the time-even for the most basic of questions. Thats why I continue to read and occasionally contribute to this site. Nothing but nice people. Now its time for a tire change! Go Easy, John

99tj

Swapping the speakers is pretty easy. If you don't feel like stripping and crimping www.crutchfield.com sends wiring harnesses and brackets for free, with purchase of speakers.

My head unit is a Pioneer DEHP77DH. It's the Chrysler size stereo. It fills the entire head unit opening, without using any brackets. It's a pretty solid unit. It has a 45w internal amp, so it can push quite a bit of power to the speakers I installed. Enough power for me anyway.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-OFiaJlFINSi/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?g=52500&avf=Y

I've been really tempted to pick up a small sub woofer. Maybe pick up a used sub-woofer console.

-Dan

tsjay

You're welcome, John. I'm always ready to "talk Jeep."

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

bardgal

I am a Jeep (Wrangler) Junkie. I currently drive a 2001 Wrangler Sport, 5-spd, soft top. I am a girl, so I am not biologically designed to LOVE a vehicle, but WOW, do I ever LOVE MY JEEP. But I have been thinking of getting a Prius because the OIL MEN are EVIL, and it's the right thing to do..... but I am torn. I didn't think I would be, but the time has come and I am. (I know, I am shocked and ashamed of myself.)

My lease is up, and I either purchase the Jeep I'm driving now - but why pay five more years on the same vehicle when I can pay five years for a NEW ONE and OWN IT? Get a new 6-sp Jeep (Wrangler or nothing). Or get a Prius (yes they're on the lots now with no waiting - hooray!)

I don't do a ton of driving right now. I fill my Jeep up maybe twice a month. I have NEVER had a single problem with the Jeep. NOT ONE. It is the most dependable car I've ever had. Period. I also love driving a 5-speed. The Jeep guys are going to throw in 2 years of free service...

Well.... our story so far: (I'm in So Cal, btw)

I want to reiterate how TORN I am. A month ago, when it was not something I had to do, I was hell-bent on a Prius. Now, that I am in a position where I must do something, and also something that I may need to drive for the next 8 years or so due to finances, dependability has become UBERIMPORTANTE!

The Prius dealer knows I have four Jeep dealers fighting for me. One has found my perfect Jeep. I was honest with the Prius sales manager and told him the great deal I was getting from them. This dealership has about ten Priuses on the lot right now, plus two "certified" pre-owned that are stickered MORE than the new ones across the street at their used lot. Gave him numbers, told him not to work me. Told him my bottom line, and he couldn't even match it, let alone beat it. Remember: Wranglers are MORE than Prius MSRP. Plus, with technology moving so fast, an '05 Prius isn't going to compare with an '08 Prius, where the Jeep never changes, so the resale is awesome. If the Prius dealer could have beaten the deal, I'd take it. And I just called him to tell him I was taking the Jeep, and he wants to run more numbers... the Jeep guy has never worked me for a second. Now I realize all this back and forth has nothing to do with the actual cars themselves... but bottom line, the extra I would be paying for the Prius, would not be saved on gasoline. Yes, zero emmisions rock. Yes, I am ashamed I am being so financially selfish. If my finances weren't in question here, the Prius would be sitting in my garage right now. But what the current evil administration has done to my personal situation unfortunately far outweighs my desire to tell the EVIL OIL companies and the BFEE to GFTS and ESAD.

The jury is still waiting for the final numbers to come back with a better offer for the Prius.... yes I drove it again. Handles like a sports car. Weird that you can't see the front of the vehicle. Really bad blind spot on the right side. Still. Nice and quiet. Inside plastic looks as if it scratches easily. TONS of leg & head room. And most important: Zero Emissions ROCK.

Why I Love My 2001 Wrangler Sport
by Tally

ZERO mechanical problems in 5 years.
Still driving on original tires with TONS of tread left.
Tires seem to be made of 6" thick travertine.
The only things replaced are the timing belt, (because the guys at easy lube showed me how cracked it was) and the battery a month ago because I left the overhead light on like a doofus.
KICK [non-permissible content removed] A/C and heat. (seriously the best I've ever experienced.)
With the side sail panels off and the back rolled up, it's like driving a patio.
If I lock my keys in the car, I just unzip it to get them out.
Having an open vehicle has been very liberating - you get past the fear of theft real quick.
Love driving a 5-speed manual transmission. Feel more in control of the car.
Very easy to manuever.
Love the power of a V6.
Turns on a dime.
Great stereo (mine has speakers in the roll-bar)
Zero-tech to malfunction. (So many tech-troubles I'm hearing about with the Prius... talk me past this please)
Dependable Dependable Dependable
SOLID
Not the smoothest ride, but I love riding horses.
Great lumbar support.
With 30" tires, it's been wonderful driving through the flood waters these past few months.
Currently driving a white one, thinking of getting a Khaki one which I'll never have to wash since it's the color of dirt and will be fab with my red hair.
And to feed my ego - it's wonderful hearing "Nothing hotter than a sexy gal driving a Jeep."
Oh yeah, and: It's a JEEP a REAL JEEP.

So - Talk to me. Talk me in - or out. I need to make this decision in the next few days.

mac24

Interesting post, but it sounds like you've already figured out the answer you want to hear.

What kind of a response do you expect from a Jeep forum? I doubt you'll get many posts persuading you to get the Prius and dump the Jeep.

You can assuage your feelings about pollution and hatred of the oil companies with the thought that you drive very little, and so will turn very little gas into pollution and oil company profits. Also, a CA specification Wrangler will have the lowest emission output of the product line.

I suspect that the answers will be a little different from the Prius forum. Just pick the responses you like best!

:--)

koolbreeze2

Like MAC said, "interesting post". I have driven many vehicles in my life-old hot rods, VW's, Caddys, Towncars, Healys, trucks, bikes, etc. I have also owned 3 Jeeps through the years. I look for two things in a vehicle-dependability and fun. Which of the two vehicles you are looking at is the most dependable and fun? Dependability and fun is very difficult to find. I presently own a 2003 Wrangler. It fits my requirements. Figure out what you can live with and go for it.Most people see driving as a means to an end. A necessity-which of course it is. But Wrangler owners go the next step. To actually have fun every time you drive is unique and somewhat rare. As you know, it actually becomes a hobby. Let us know what you decide. You won't get any judgement on this site. Just Jeepers wishing you the best of luck. Go Easy, John

bardgal

Even IF Toyota Boy comes back and make all things equal, I don't know if I can give up my Wrangler. I have never been so torn about anything in my life.

The Barbie tires on the Prius scare me.
The software problems scare me.
The eco-awesomeness is soooo tempting.

help

iconoclast

Thanks, Tom. I went out for some more definitive measurements today and found some interesting numbers proving that 31" will fit on a stock unlimited. Measuring from the ground to the top of the wheel flares, in the front the Rubicon measures 33" and the Unlimited 32"; from the ground to the body under the door both are 19"; and from the ground to the rear flares the Rubicon is 32" and the Unlimited is 35"! Measured 5 different vehicles to make sure and these are the measurements. So the same tire on the Rubicon will fit on the Unlimited and give the same ground clearance. WOW, can't believe a tire dealer gave all the wrong information especially about the Rubicon being raised 2"! Just ain't so!

tsjay

The Prius may cause you to bubble with joy for a while, like any new car would, but can you see yourself being all excited about it after having it as long as you have had your Jeep????

You know my history, if you have read many posts in here. I traded cars as often as a lot of people change underwear, and I would be all excited about my new car... for about six months max! I would be tired of my car and trying my best to figure out a way to trade again in no time.

Well, here it is four years after buying my Thelma Jane, and I am still as thrilled with her as I was on Day One. Sounds like you are the same way about your Jeep.

Since you don't drive many miles per year, what's the big deal about the Prius? Are you willing to give up driving THE MOST FUN VEHICLE IN THE WORLD for the sake of a few bucks savings on gas?

GET THE JEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

bardgal

THANKS TOM!!!!

div2

I don't know how long you plan to keep your next car, but you need to understand that the battery pack used in the Prius will wear out eventually-and replacing it won't be cheap. I'd guess the cost to be at least $2000. That said, if you plan to flip the sled before it reaches 100,000 miles or so battery life shouldn't be a factor. Let me give you a third choice-a new Liberty diesel. Great mileage with true off-road capability. And-unlike the Prius-when you drive it you won't be mistaken for a counter-cultural eco-weenie!

99tj

I'm with Tom. After reading your post it's pretty obvious you want to keep the Jeep. Who can blame you, it's a fun vehicle.

We're a long long way from being independent of mid-east oil. Electric hybrids definitely aren't the long term answer.

I have a solution! If DC comes out with the turbo-diesel for the new Wranglers, get one of those vegetable oil filtering systems and get buddy-buddy with the local McDonalds manager

Seriously, as anybody read about this? Pretty interesting stuff. From what I read, you need to run the used oil through a pretty hefty filter system to remove all the impurities.

-Dan

mtngal

You want the Wrangler, get the Wrangler. If the diesel Liberty were available in California, I might be driving one of them in spite of the passenger seating problem I noticed. If they put one in the Wrangler, I'd be hard-pressed not to trade the Sport in on one. And speaking of the Sport - it's a '98 and is running very well, took me to go snowshoeing today.

The Prius is a nice vehicle. It isn't zero emissions - it is low emissions. And while it gets much better gas mileage than the Wrangler, it doesn't get enough to recoup the extra cost of the vehicle for someone who drives few miles.

I haven't heard about a filtration system so that you could use used vegetable oil in a diesel, though I have heard about biodiesel. If it gets more commonly available and if they would put out a diesel that would meet California standards, I'd certainly look at it. A friend of mine (another long distance commuter) has a diesel Jetta and gets like 45 mpg. He's had it for a couple of years and loves it.

bardgal

This car will have to last me a LONG TIME - say 7+ years, which is why I am gravitating towards the Jeep. SOLID. DEPENDABLE. TIME TESTED. The Prius has only been on the market here since 2001, and only a few years in Japan before that, so there's really no uber-longterm test out there as far as reliability goes. Yes, I could get 10yrs/100k warranty with the Prius, but ...... there's the software issue. Plus Jeep Man, who is miles away, (I've only talked on the phone/web to him, have NOT been to the dealership yet), is getting me a Khaki Sport soft top 6-spd from another dealer, and really wants my business. Toyota Boy wants me to "come back in" so they can work me some more. NEWS FLASH: I was in. They didn't meet my terms. They had their chance. I even gave them two more opportunities to do some dealing but they can't come up with numbers without me setting foot in the show room. THE WORLD HAS MOVED ON.

so - I've driven around in my current white baby today. Had some margaritas to brood about it all.... and am feeling good about picking up my new '05 JEEP tomorrow night.

And who knows... maybe sometime in the near future, someone will come up with a way to refit any vehicle to some sort of hydrogen, or hybrid technology, and I'll end up with the perfect Jeep.

It's just hard getting over my guilt because Prius is so eco-friendly. You'd think that Jeep would be coming out with a hybrid since so many loyal customers are OUTDOOR people......

stever

get buddy-buddy with the local McDonalds manager

I figure that it won't be too long before the fast food joints start selling their waste grease instead of paying to have it carted off.

But you could always swap Jeep rides for grease. That would be slick :-)

Steve, Host

oceantoad

Took the mother of a friend along with me on Saturday. I took the Jeep out to our property that we are going to build on. I was just going to treat some fire ant mounds so I figured why not take her along. She is only about 5 feet tall so I took a small step ladder along just in case. She didn't use it and got in and out three or four times. Said she thought the Jeep rode really nice.

The old gal is 80 years old.

Still a happy camper.

mtngal

Great to see you around again - how's Texas?

Your friend's mother is more spry than my mother. She rode in the Unlimited (and thought it was nice), but had problems getting in. I wonder how I'll look carrying around a step stool so I'll be able to get into my Wrangler when I'm her age...

Whatever Jeep does for a Wrangler as to be easy to work on, so that we can repair them when we hurt them off-road. We had a flat once when we were a good 10 miles from the closest "paved" road, and probably 20 miles to the closest community. When we had problems breaking loose the lug nuts I had pictures of trying to explain to AAA where to find us (yeah, right).

erickpl

Why would anybody NOT want a Jeep in soCal? I loved having mine there. As for the diesel Liberty... good luck getting a diesel powered car in Cali any time soon...

Mac is right, with as little as it sounds like you drive it, the Wrangler is fine over the Prius. The Prius may be more comfortable and quiet when driving, so if you have long drives, that would be something to consider. But I'd rather be parked on the 405 with the top/doors off than wrapped up in a cocoon ANY day.

Nothing like driving along the coast with a Jeep...

-Paul

durability05

I hope I'm not too late, it is okay to get a jeep , even with enviromental concerns. By owning a jeep we do have a concern for preserving the enviroment , because of its priceless beauty. Anyway the wrangler still averages in the mid teens on regular fuel. Do get a hardtop and automatic transmission with ABS, it would make life very comfortable for a jeep and make the jeep very practical .
The prius has a battery pack that needs replacement approx. at 100,000 miles, and it is several thousand dollars, the prius depreciates pretty bad for a toyota, and over a 5 year period the jeep , even if initially more expensive, probably is equal if not cheaper than the prius on the long run.