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Jeep Wrangler



  • yellowmanyellowman Posts: 209

    What tool or tools did you use to remove the hard top and full doors? I'll be attempting this project in a week or two and I want to make sure I have the equipment. I don't think I have the L-wrench. I think it's only included with dual-top models.

  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    You will need a 13mm metric boxed end wrench for the nuts on the door hinges and a size 40 torx wrench for the hard top bolts.

    I bought a set of torx wrenches at Advanced Auto Parts for about $10 and a set of metric combination open end/boxed end wrenches for about $14.

    You want to be real careful with any kind of wrench as you loosen the nuts on the door hinges. A slip of the wrench could mean a scratch on your paint.

    Also, be prepared for the paint to be scraped off the nuts on the door hinges. I even used a rag over the nuts, but it still took the paint off.

    Those doors are going to surprise you with their weight! Be prepared to put a lot of muscle into lifting them off, and be sure they come STRAIGHT UP, or else you will allow the bottom hinge bolt to contact the paint on the fender like I did. NOT GOOD!


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    Boy, would I ever love to get that soft top, as you predict that I will. I just don't see how I can afford it though, especially considering how far out on the limb I went just to get Thelma to start with!

    I have ordered the Duravent full cover for Thelma, so I guess I'll take the top back off when that cover comes in.

    Why is the hard top better for winter? With the new four ply soft tops, I would think you would have better insulation with them than with the hard top. Is it just a matter of wind getting into the cabin with the soft top?


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • Hi Everyone,
    I discovered your board about two weeks ago while I was doing research for a new JEEP. Thank you all for all the information that I acquired on this board. You were extremely helpful in making my decision on the options and package groups that I would get with my JEEP. I have contemplated purchasing a JEEP for about 5 years. Outrageous parking fees and high insurance costs were an important factor in my decision since I live in NYC. I finally figured out that I would be able to afford a JEEP and the extra monthly expenses, so I finally placed a special order through a local dealer.
    This was my first time purchasing a vehicle through a dealer, so I was extremely nervous. I hope I did OK with the purchase price and I would like some advise on if this is a fair price or if I got ripped off. By the way, the sales consultant was pleasant and I felt comfortable with her.

    This is the JEEP that I ordered:

    4.0L Power Tech I-6
    Black exterior
    Agate interior
    Automatic transmission
    Black painted wheel flairs and rocker sills
    Canyon 30" tire and wheel group
    Fog lamp and tow hook group
    Air conditioning
    CD w/ console sub woofer
    Dual top
    Speed control
    Leather wrapped steering wheel
    Deep tint glass
    Body side steps
    Add a trunk
    Sentry key

    The price we negotiated on this JEEP is $21,325. This price includes destination and advertising fees. It does not include $175. for registration, NY state inspection and processing. It also does not include 8.25% sales tax.

    I would appreciate any feedback on whether this was a good deal or not. I think I will be able to cancel this order if you advise me otherwise. Any other comments about my options choice or about something I didn't order would also be welcomed.

    The sales consultant said that it would take 4-6 weeks for delivery.
    Since my order was placed on Saturday, just before the dealership was about to close, she said that on Monday, the order will be placed and she would give me a VON.

    I am so excited about my new JEEP. Please tell me it was a good deal?!?!
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    That sounds like a beautiful Jeep and a real good bunch of options, except that I prefer the five speed transmission (But if I lived in NYC, I would probably go with the auto too.)


    As far as the price, it sure sounds good to me, but you didn't say what invoice price was for that particular Jeep. If you got it for anything like two hundred over invoice or less (not counting the rebate) and if you got the auto transmission for free, like you were supposed to, then you got a good deal.

    It sounds like a great deal to me, considering all the options you got! I paid about 22,100 for Thelma Jane, and I didn't get the dual top option (Should be shot for not doing that!), the sentry key, the add a trunk, the side steps, or the tow hooks and fog lamps.

    Has the five hundred rebate been applied already to that price of $21,325. Or do you still get the $500 after paying only $21,325?

    Either way, it sounds like a killer deal to me!


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • saharanutsaharanut Posts: 134
    welcome to the board!!
    You ordered the jeep i have been looking at.
    Compared to got GREAT deal..
    what I was offered was 23,623 off the lot price. Thats total Sales tax, Title & $500 rebate.
    8.25% sales tax on cars WOW!!
    3.125 here..
    I really like the 60th anniversary.
    I was looking at the Sahara..just didnt like the interior.
    Congrats on your jeep...maybe i'll be able to get mine soon..

    happy easter
  • Wow, Thanks for the speedy responses tsjay and saharanut! According to both of your responses, I will be able to sleep tonight!
    You guys are the best!

    I don't know how to drive a manual and I don't feel comfortable learning this.
    I didn't get the invoice price from the dealer but If tsjay says I got a good deal, I got a good deal. Yee Haah!
    I did get the automatic free with this price.
    The dealer said that the $500. rebate would happen only if the JEEP was PICKED UP from the dealer by 4/30, which is unlikely my JEEP will be ready by then. She did say that if there is an extension to this promotion and if the price changes, I would qualify for whatever the promotion price is the day I pick up my JEEP. I didn't challenge her on this point, as I planned to call DC tomorrow to find out the policy.
    Do you know what the policy is?

    I agree with you about the Sahara's interior. I actually prefer the Agate button Vinyl seats which are only available with the Sport I package, but with the options that I wanted this pricing strategy was extremely high. I asked if it was possible to downgrade from the agate Nomad cloth seats to agate vinyl on my 60th anniversary order but my sales consultant said it was not possible.
    I don't really like the Nomad cloth pattern and prefer solid black or dark prey seats. But I guess I can live with the Nomad cloth pattern. I plan on changing the seats anyway. My dealer said that they have a local upholsterer that does excellent work, so when my jeep comes in, I may change my front and back seats to black leather.

    Has anyone changed their seats or reupholtered their seats? I would like some advise on this.

    I am also thinking of getting a Magellan 750 GAS system installed as soon as I pick up my JEEP. I have used this same navigational system in Hertz rental cars, and I love them. As you can tell, I get lost in my own bathroom and my brain doesn't
    have a map reading program installed!

    I guess you can also tell that this JEEP will see much MUD or ROCKS, but driving around the city with mad taxi drivers, pot holes the size of meteor craters and dodging all the crazes in the street is similar to offroading right?
  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    rfleck - sorry for the oversight when you posted before... As tsjay mentioned, the board is pretty friendly and tries to welcome new posters. $500 for the soft top sounds like a decent deal for someone that's interested. I'm sure it won't take long to sell. Stay active and join the Thur night chat if time permits.

    cremaster - congrats on ordering the new Jeep. The dimensions of the TJ, along with the tight turnig radius and ability to handle the bumps should make it a good NYCmobile. I spent almost a year and a half working in Manhattan which was enough for me, but the Jeep should make it even more fun to help escape the city. I think the price you got is great. We only paid a bit less for ours and didn't get the DTs and some other goodies you got.

    texasjeep - nice pic. Looks like fun. Is that a vanity plate or did you just luck out having it end in JP?

    I picked up some new plugs today to try and smooth out the idle. I'll get them in one night this week and see how it goes. Even though our Jeep only has a little over 600 miles on it, I'd rather do this myself than turn it over to the dealer. I found a few threads on some other boards where the posters experienced a lumpy idle (even on new TJs) after the Jeep was warmed up. In almost all cases, new plugs fixed it. If it's still an issue after the new plugs, I'll reluctantly let them have a whack at it. I've had 2 other cars ('73 240Z, and '84 Supra) w/ I6 engines and they were silk. I haven't felt what I would call a miss, but even my wife asked why the idle had an occasional hiccup. I fixed the flapping rear seatbelts with velcro straps this weekend; much better with the top off.

    My prediction for yellowman is that once he gets the top off in LA, he'll buy an alarm with a proximity sensor (Viper makes a great one for about $300+ installed), leave the top off, and get a cover for rain like tsjay...

  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    cremaster4 - You snuck that last post in while I was typing away. A couple of follow ups...

    If you want the vinyl seats, I bet you can find at least one dealer or new customer to swap with you. The rear seat is a sinch to pull and the front can't be more than a few bolts. If you want leather, I've see an ad for leather replacement; I'll dig around if you're interested.

    My dealer told me that they could book the rebate if the Jeep was in transit. DC actually invoices the dealer when the Jeep leaves Toledo. Our issue was that the rebate was set to expire 4/3 and I thought our might be close. This turned out to be a moot point when it showed up on 3/23 and the rebate was extended to 4/30 about the same time.

    Good luck waiting. To all expectant owners, skim through to see if your experience is any different. Shoot me an email if you find any better info or errors.


  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    You mean you are possibly getting the rebate as well as that great price??????? WOW is all I can say!

    I have heard that the Jeep only has to be ORDERED by the end of the rebate period, not actually delivered. I would definitely check on this.

    Vinyl seats? Yuck! What's wrong with the nice Nomad cloth seats? I love the seats in Thelma Jane! You ain't gonna be offroading or anything, so why the vinyl?


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tonkadavetonkadave Posts: 102
    Cremaster4 welcome to the group! As you may know I also have recently placed a jeep order. As far as the rebate goes, your in a no lose situation. I called DC on this several times and got the same answer. You are eligible for the rebate or any increase in the rebate that may happen before you get your jeep. That goes for finance plans as well. If they cancel the rebate, you get it anyway since you ordered now. I looked at the price you got and am surprised. I added up invoice on all your options and came up with the following...
    Wrangler Sport $17543
    Total of options inc. 60th. Ann. $4652
    Destination $585
    Total Invoice without Add fees is $22780
    Meaning you got your jeep for $1455 UNDER invoice
    Was there a trade in or something that you didnt mention? Sounds like you got one hell of a deal. Congratulations on you new jeep
  • yellowmanyellowman Posts: 209
    Like the others, I don't know what invoice was on your Jeep, but based on what I paid and got (and I think I got a really good deal), you got an EXCELLENT deal. Your final price was only about $2,300 more than mine and you not only got the better 6-cylinder engine, but also the dual tops, tinted windows, subwoofer, alloy wheels, and the 60th-anniversary stuff like the special fender flares. WOW! If yellow was available in 60th anniversaries, I would be wishing I'd shelled out a little extra cash for what you got. (even though this is a bad thing - I really extended myself to get to the $19,000 price tag!).

    As for the rebate, you're fine. It goes until the 30th, and as long as the thing is ordered before then (which it almost certainly will be unless the dealer is a COMPLETE idiot), you'll get the $500. Dealers do not know what they're talking about most of the time and even if they do they might hide it from you. My dealer tried to tell me the rebate was only good on automatic transmissions. Fortunately I knew this not to be true, so they couldn't slide it by me. They also tried vehemently to convince me I'd get nothing if the rebate ended before I took delivery of the Jeep, and that also was NOT true as I found out with a phone call to DC. The rebate works in your favor. If the rebate ends, you'll get the current $500. If it's a BETTER deal, you'll get THAT deal. The financing guy at my dealership said the incentive on Wranglers has NEVER been above $500, but again, that was from the dealership so take it with a grain of salt.

    I think you're right, especially when the warm weather gets here (it's finally starting to warm up, but the nights are still cold). Heck, I already ordered the full cover like tsjay. However, I was hoping to spend less than $200 on an alarm system - $300 is a little pricey. How exactly does that Viper system work? Is it the one that talks and says, "You're too close to the vehicle, step away"? Parking in my neighborhood is tough, and you generally have to find a spot and parallel park (I'm getting really good at this even with stick!). The point is, it's close quarters, so I wouldn't want it going off all the time to ward people off. Thanks for the suggestion, though - I'll look into it regardless.

  • tonkadavetonkadave Posts: 102
    rfleck. Welcome to the board. I dont know how i missed your post. Hope you stick around and then join us for the chat on thursday nights. This is a great group. When I first got Wrangler Fever I came to this board thinking I would see tons of complaints about the vehicle, like the boards of other cars. Then I would have justification not to get one. Well after reading through a thousand posts I was amazed. The vast majority of people were thrilled with their jeeps. then I found several other boards with the same enthusiasm. Needless to say, I had to get one! I had no choice. Every time I tried to get out.... They pulled me back in.
  • mark202mark202 Posts: 6
    three questions:

    1, Does anybody know of a product that will bring the black back to the plastic fenders? I have used armor all, but it doesn't last.

    2, I have a 97 wrangler, and was wondering if it requires a special type of anti-freeze? I have used prestone on my other cars, but I noticed the stuff in my jeep is pink.

    3, I have a flat finish soft top,and was wondering is there any type of protect ant or cleaner to be used on it?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have to ask you if you are SURE that you got the figures right?

    That price has to be WAY below invoice! Tonkadave and I have been chatting on Instant Message, as we do every night, and we added up the invoice prices listed for your Jeep and all the options that you listed, and the invoice WITH NO ADVERTISING FEE INCLUDED came to $22,780.00.

    I hope you really do get the Jeep for that price, but you might want to be prepared to hear from the dealer that a mistake was made.


    That will be the world's record best deal on a new Wrangler!

    I am really, really hoping that the deal will stand, but it sure sounds like they made a mistake somewhere.

    Let us know how this goes, OK?


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mark202 - As strange as it sounds, I have heard from several people that you can use peanut butter to bring the black back to the plastic flares. I guess it is the oils in it that restore the black finish. You could also try vegatable oil or something similar to that.....I think you would have the same results.
  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    yellowman - on the alarm... The Viper line from DEI allows you to add a proximity sensor, which is what you described. If someone gets too close, it warns, but doesn't actually go off unless a door is opened, vehicle is bumped, etc. My dad has a Viper in his Miata but doesn't have the prox sensor. I think he paid 230 installed and it gives him ignition kill, keyless entry, and locks the doors when starting and unlocks them when the ignition is killed. If you're not concerned about people poking around inside the Jeep with the top off, I think it's a good alarm and in your budget. Another one to consider is Clifford; similar price and features. I'm willing to tackle most mods including electrical stuff, but I would have a shop install an alarm. They can be tricky to set up, but once they are done, they do their job (make noise when somethign happens and kill the ignition if not properly disengaged). I think the ignition kill feature is the most important to prevent a casual thief from taking your ride. The noise is ignored by most people. As a final note, don't leave anything in the Jeep that you can't or aren't willing to replace.

    mark202 - try a product called 303 protectant. It doesn't have silicone like Armor All and has UV coverage as well. I don't know how much it will restore faded plastic, but should help keep the color after you wipe all that peanut butter off!

  • You guys are incredible! This board is a god send! But now you have me worried about this "GREAT/EXCELLENT" deal.

    According to TONKADAVE's calculation this deal sounds a little unreasonable. I do not have a trade in, so this price is only for this vehicle. I tried to use the fact that I am paying in cash (have been saving my pennies for 5 years!) to be a negotiating factor in this deal, but the sales consultant said it made no difference in the profit the dealer makes. I thought it would save on time and paper work for them. (I was brought up in the TIME = $$$ School)

    Tonkadave, what is the source of your calculations? According to a DaimlerChrysler pamphlet of the JEEP 60th ANNIVERSARY EDITIONS that the sales consultant gave to me, it reads as follows:


    Manual or automatic transmission with:
    Full metal doors
    Body-color wheel flares and rocker sills
    Canyon 30-inch Tire and Wheel Group
    Fog Lamp and Tow Hook Group
    Air conditioning
    AM/FM stereo radio with CD player, five
    speakers and sub woofer
    Specially embroidered floor mats
    Also available:
    Speed control
    Dual top option

    The sales consultant confirmed that I would also take the Side steps, Tinted windows, Sentry key, Add a trunk, Speed control and Dual top options. We went back and forth about prices, with her going to the "Manager" (probably really to the bathroom) a couple times. We finally settled on $21,325. ,we both signed a contract stating this price and all the details plus my deposit of $1000. My deposit amount is at the bottom of the page where it states: less deposit $1000. I ordered this JEEP on Saturday (Yesterday) and she said she will place the order with the Factory on Monday (Tomorrow).
    The latter posters have me worried that this deal is too good to be true. I want to be prepared if she calls me back about quoting a wrong price after she contacts DaimlerChrysler. Do you think this is possible? I am a little worried that this may be the case. The dealer that I went to is no Mom and Pop operation, so I don't think that they would purposely try to mislead me. Would this price be binding even though it is possible that she made a possible mistake?


    4WD Wrangler
    Anniversary Edition
    MSRP $23,005.00*
    Manual or automatic transmission with:
    Full metal doors
    Body-color wheel flares and rocker sills
    Fog lamps and front tow hooks
    Air conditioning
    Specially embroidered floor mats

    Tonkadave or anyone else have a situation similar to this, please advise me on how I should handle this situation if it should happen.

    Boy, I thought I would be able to sleep tonight. I guess not.

    (I just reread my post and I sound really paranoid. I'm not really, I am just excited about my new toy and I want this to be a problem free process)

    Thanks to you all,
  • saharanutsaharanut Posts: 134
    You better jump on that deal before the dealer realizes what he has done...
    ask him for an "off the Lot" price...
    tax, any other extra charges(watch him on that one)
    tell hime to give you a print out too..
    plus DO get the rebate if you place your order before 4/30. Dont let him tell you anything else.
    I've heard that 4/20 is the cut off for placing orders on the 2001 models..not really sure about that (anyone else heard that)
    wish ya luck cremaster

    take care
  • drcsfdrcsf Posts: 36
    Hi all. I have a 98 Wrangler Sport 5 speed. I read this board all the time but have never posted. However, I saw mark202's question about restoring the black to his fenders. Since I bought my Jeep (new) I have been using a product called "Tire Wet". Works great. Obviously it is designed to be used on tires; it is silicone based and leaves a great shine. I apply it to a cloth and then rub it on the fenders - I don't spray it directly as I don't want it on the paint. I also use it on a cloth to detail the black in the engine - hoses, plastics, etc. Its available in many auto parts stores and departments and its cheap. Give it a try. Good luck. Most important, never waste good peanut butter. Craig
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    I'm a little confused now. You sound like you are saying you are paying $21,325 PLUS your deposit of $1000.00. That means you would be paying $22,325, which is still a KILLER deal.

    Is that right?


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tonkadavetonkadave Posts: 102
    cremaster4, i got the info on msn carpoint. But edmunds has similar information. It seemed to be accurate when I ordered mine last week. In reality the only way to order a car below invoice in lieu of a rebate, is if the dealer lets you take some of his holdback or factory to dealer incentive. The holdback is usually 3% or about 600 bucks. The factory to dealer incentives or floorplan allowance is really unknown in this case if any. In other words, if these figures are correct, the dealer is actually paying you to order this vehicle. Since that is highly unlikely, there must be an error somewhere in the paperwork. I would try matching all the prices on a website that calculates options and doesnt let you double order options.
  • Hi tsjay,

    Sorry for the confusion, I guess I should have worded my statement about my deposit differently.

    There is no confusion about this one as I put a $1000. deposit on a JEEP with a price of $21,325. That means my balance due is $20,325. I still owe 8.25% sales tax and a $175. registration/ license/ny inspection fee.

    Our agreed on price was definitely $21,325. I have it here on my dealers contract. It is one of those contract with a back full of fine print to protect them but not me in this situation.

    What do you suggest I do in a case where the sales person may have misquoted me?
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    Ok, Pal. Here's the best advice that I can give you.

    1. Hopefully they will stick to the deal, but I sure don't see how they can!

    If they withdraw the offer and tell you that it was a mistake and then make you another offer...

    2. Make them SHOW you the invoice, and DO NOT pay any more than $200.00 over invoice. People are commonly getting new Wranglers at anywhere from invoice to $200.00 over invoice. AND YOU STILL GET THE REBATE, NOT THE DEALER! So, you would be, for all practical purposes, getting the Jeep for between $300 and $500 under invoice with the rebate included.

    There is an Advertising Fee included in the invoice price, but in metro areas, there is an addtional advertising fee that is NOT built into the invoice. You may have to pay that or part of that, depending on your dealer's willingness to negotiate it. Tonkadave had to pay an addtional $295, I believe, in his area (Philadelphia area).

    Accoring to the msn site, your Jeep should invoice for $22,780.00 plus whatever local Advertising Fee that they assess.

    I will be glad to give you my thoughts on whatever deal they propose, if they do indeed withdraw their $21,325 offer. Tonkadave will be glad to help you too.

    I truly hope you get that baby for the price they have quoted, but I just can't believe that a mistake has not been made.


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • yellowmanyellowman Posts: 209
    Thanks for the info on the alarms. Because of my parking situation, I probably would leave off the sensor. I do like the idea of the kill switch though. What I'm wondering is, how much better is the kill switch than the Sentry Key, which I already have? I've seen some of this hidden camera footage where you see a guy stealing a car and it seems they usually rip something off the steering column and hot-wire it. Would the Sentry Key system kill the engine, or would the ignition kill on an aftermarket alarm do it...Or would they both? Since I'll have the cover, I'm not too worried about people poking around inside my topless Jeep, as I'm very conscious about keeping anything of value in there. The only thing I keep in the Jeep are CDs that I've made on my computer that I can easily replace. I keep these in the *unlocked* console so they're not visible. That's really it, aside from a bottle of armor all in the add-a-trunk. I suppose someone could rip off the rear seat since it's so easy to remove, but that seems like an unlikely item to want to take.

    Thanks for the advice on the Tire Wet - sounds like a good product. I've heard that when one uses silicone-based products like that and Armor All, it becomes important to continue using them, or the material can crack. Kinda like when a guy uses Rogaine - if he ever stops, his hair goes back to what it would have been if he hadn't used anything. Is this correct?

  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    Hey, you might have stumbled onto something!

    Put Rogaine on those fender flares, and once they grow hair, nobody will want to go near that Jeep!

    You won't have to worry about theft any more.


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    yellowman - I forgot you had the sentry key which is suppose to work as an engine immobilizer. If the chip in the key doesn't send the right signal to the brains in the Jeep, it won't start. I don't know for certain, but think it would make the Jeep much more difficult to steal. If someone wants it, they'll take it, but Sentry Key should offer you protection against a petty thief hot wiring it. We had a scheme last year in ATL where theives were backing up flatbeds to cars in parking lots and just hauling them off. Hook a chain to them and drag them onto the truck. They then took the cars to a chop shop where they were pieced out. They found the remains of something like 30+ Honda Accords when they caught the guys.

    I don't think the alarm would offer you much protection over what you have since it sounds like you don't leave anything valuable and have the Sentry Key working for you.

  • twylietwylie Posts: 619
    production cutoffs:

    according to, the last day to submit an order for a 2001 Wrangler is 5/1, with 2002 production scheduled to begin 7/16.

  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    Nobody hopes I'm wrong as much as I do (except you, of course). It will give me
    no pleasure whatsoever if it turns out that I am right in questioning the deal
    you were offered.

    What you sure don't want to happen is to wait all those weeks for your Jeep to
    come in, and then find out when you are taking delivery that they want a couple
    thousand dollars more than they originally quoted you! You would then be faced
    with the unpleasant choices of walking away from that beautiful new Jeep or
    paying an unexpected, additional, and significant amount of money for it. It
    would then be too late to order another 2001 Wrangler.

    I would certainly question them NOW and be sure that there is no mistake rather
    than wait until the Jeep comes in and be disappointed then.

    Please keep us posted on how this evolves.


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • sfjeepssfjeeps Posts: 66
    Anti-freeze The anti freeze from the factory is your standard anti-freeze and maybe replaced by any of the auto parts brand. If you want an exact 50/50 mixture ratio drain out all the old coolant (be sure to dispose of properly because it is very toxic to dogs and cats). Start motor, switch heater to on at max temp and flush with water and drain again, then find out capacity of the coolant for your vehicle and divide by half. (6cly TJ is 6 quarts) In this case add three quarts of straight coolant(no water added) and then top off with water. This will assure you get the proper mix of 50/50. Let motor warm then check level again and top off. Take note, DO NOT open radiator cap when radiator is hot because it will be under pressure.
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