If you are thinking like I did, that you can get the hard top and still have a convertible, since the hard top can be taken off, let me tell you... taking that top off and putting it back on are not easy jobs. They are not intended to be taken off and put back on every few days.
If you take the top off, you are going to want to leave it off for a long time, and if you put it on, you will want to leave it on a long time.
I got the hard top only on my 2001 Sport, but if I had it to do over, I would definitely get the soft top. I didn't realize how much more fun a Jeep could be with no top or the top down. I thought I wouldn't want the top off very often. WRONG! I love to drive my Jeep with the top AND the doors off!
The soft tops on the 2001's and 2002's are three ply, and I'm sure they would be fine in the winter.
Roof Racks: Thanks for the advice all - I guess a roof rack is the way I'll have to go, at least until I get good enough at surfing to get a short board :-) So if it IS a roof rack I need, then I want one that's the simplest to put on and take off, rather than the kind that will need to be welded to my whole frame. Any suggestions?
Hard vs. Soft: Definitely depends on your situation. I have the hard top only option, and right now, I'm very happy with it because I currently have a warehouse where I can easily store the hard top. A few months ago, though, before the warehouse came to be, I had NOWHERE to store the hard top, and it made taking it off virtually impossible. I had only taken it off once, and that was just for about 3 hours, because the top was sitting in my parents's front yard and I definitely didn't want to leave it there any longer than that. There was a time back then when part of me wished I had a soft top so I could put the top up and down whenever I wanted. But now that I do have storage space, I'm fine with just the hard top. Tsjay is right, though, it's not an easy job to take it off and put it on. It's not *difficult* but it's definitely something where you need a spare 20 minutes and a friend to help. I also am glad I have the full doors, which come with the hard top. I like the look of the half doors the best on a Jeep, but I really liked the option of keeping the windows down and having a real "open air" feeling or rolling them up and putting a little heat on when my top was off and I was driving around in the cold night. Ultimately, Mtngal was right - it depends on your situation.
Thanks for the input guys. My main dilemma is that b/c I live here in Boston, I will only be able to truly enjoy the jeep experience from about april - september. I question how much enjoyment I will get out of the jeep with the hard top on.
Has anyone out there used the soft top only during a northeast type winter with no garage? How do the windows hold up to freezing weather? I can store the hard top but I don't want to spend the extra $$$ if I don't need to.
I'm from Boston also, I've got both the soft and hardtops for my jeep, I haven't driven in the winter yet with the soft top but I think it would be fine, just the same,I'll be putting the hard top on in Nov and it will be coming off in April,I've got the flame red with black tops and the canyon wheel group 4.0 sport, I love it. I've always had pickups because of my job, I'm a jeep guy now forever, lots of fun and lots of sun. I still haven't figureed out if I've got the limited slip my axle does have a dana sticker on it, does that mean its the limited slip. I know I've got the 3.73 gears-anybody know?
I've thought about this for a few years - I had hard top only for about 3 years, and now I have a Wrangler with dual tops.
Here's my humble opinion: Both tops are cantankerous - the soft top has numerous tucks to perform to raise and lower, you have to be careful not to scratch the windows, but they get scratched anyway (incredibly, the video tape that ships with the Wrangler even says exactly that!), and its not like a conventional convertible that you can quickly put up or down, but is at least with you when you need it. The hard top has 6 bolts, 2 clamps and the washer and electrical connection to disconnect which is not hard. The problem is, without a lift, its a two person job, and you run the risk of damaging it or the body of your Jeep everytime its removed/replaced.
So, my opinion is if you have a place for a lift, get the hard top or dual tops. I would not get a hard top without a lift.
If you get dual tops, then you can put the soft top on for trips, where you can raise and lower it without having a storage problem.
I've never owned the half-doors, but would have to think that using zippers for the windows would be a pain in todays world of drive thru restaurants and ATMs, so I would get the full doors either way.
So, in my humble opinion, it works out like this:
If you have a place for a lift: 1st choice: Dual tops 2nd choice: Hard top
No place for lift: 1st choice: Soft top, full doors 2nd choice: Soft top, half-doors
I factored out the noise problem, because according to everything I read, and my own experience, the new sailcloth top is at least as quiet as the hard top.
Another issue to factor depending on how long you intend to keep your Jeep is that the soft top will wear out eventually.
Nice job of listing the pros and cons of each top.
I have moaned and groaned over not geting a soft top for Thelma Jane when I ordered her, but I finally decided that the best possible situation was to have some other vehicle to drive, and then just leave Thelma topless and doorless. That way I can pick and choose what days I want to drive the Jeep, and having the top and doors off is not a problem.
If I had a soft top, that still wouldn't allow me to go doorless, if I had to drive the Jeep to work on days when it might rain.
To me, the ultimate way to enjoy a Jeep is with the top AND the doors off.
Where do you keep the windows when the top is down on a soft top Jeep? Just lay them in the cargo area? That would not be real handy if you had to carry stuff back there. I guess you wouldn't want to put stuff on top of the windows, if they are in the cargo area, right?
More about the Bridgestone Dueller AT's. Today we went up to a friend's property that required climbing up a number of steep, soft grades. It was the first time we had been up there, and we ended up taking one of the grades in 4-low - at the bottom it looked too steep for first gear (it turned out it looked worse than it was). In any case, there was only once that we felt the tires almost lose traction (our friends with their noisy, true off-road tires didn't have the same problem). I think it was the same or better than we would have gotten out of the Goodyears.
So they seem to do what we want pretty well - they are quiet on the highway, have much better traction on streets than the Goodyears, and can get us to "the end of the road," even if we did scrape the gas tank skid plates on a large rock...
All this fun means that we will have to do something tomorrow about turning our now brown Wrangler back to it's usual black!
I suppose the best thing to do would be have two jeeps - one for sunny days and one for rainy days!
As far as storage for my windows, I keep them in my garage laying flat, separated by the packing material that came with them.
It takes longer to put the soft top on than the hard top, so I only remove my hard top only after checking weather forecasts and conditions. Basically, that means if its not too hot or cold, and there is no rain for at least 2 days it comes off. I'm only about 7 minutes from work to my house, so I'll even take it off or put in on at lunch. So far, in over 3 years of Jeep ownership, I've only been caught in the rain once. This means that I don't get to enjoy every single hour of beautiful weather, but my Jeep goes topless quite a bit.
However, I suppose that if I worked farther away, the soft top would be better because I would be unable to just duck home and put it on.
If DC would make the softtop work like a regular convertible that would be great; I guess the window areas are just too large.
You don't keep the windows with you when you have the top down? What happens if it rains? Does much water get in when the top is up but the windows are out?
For the first time in my life, I am totally satisfied with the vehicle(s) I own, and now look at the deals and the financing you can get! I have owned Thelma Jane for 10 months now, and I would normally be drooling over some other vehicle and trying my best to figure out some way to trade for it.
I also love that little '89 S-10 that I bought for a work truck.
Well..I guess tomorrow will be the last day I can go topless..Got some cold air coming into the heart of dixie. Went driving around this afternoon.It was GREAT. Now I gotta find someone to help put that hardtop back on. Then pack up the hardtop till next spring. Sorry I haven been posting alot lately. Been Busy around here. does anyone use Plexo for the softtop windows? I was wondering if is really worth the $8.00 a bottle price. Take care All
I found Plexo works as long as you're not trying to repair too deep a scratch. I used on my MGs for years since the rear quarter windows aren't removable and the rear window only zips down, not out. To replace the plastic windows means replacing the whole top. I bought a big bottle for less than $30 and used it for 4 years. Definitely cheaper than a new top or a new set of windows.
The weather has been hit or miss lately, but fortunately the garage lets us keep the top down and take advantage of the great days (like today). Next top up trip for us will be heading to the outer banks of NC to do some beach driving over the Thanksgiving holiday.
I've hooked someone else on a Jeep. OK, he's only 7 years old, but while visiting friends today, he asked if I'd take him for a ride in the Jeep. When we got home he announced to his folks that when he got older, he was going to drive a Jeep!
I hear ya! I was thinking the same thing..that I should have waited before dumping my Blazer. Oh well such is life. Still love my Wrangler but I'm going to have to get my winter car in shape (don't want Wisconsin salt getting on my Jeep).
I witchoo on the salt thing, man. I'm glad that very little is used here in Ky.
You got some other 4x4 to use in the winter?
I might actually check into leasing a 2002 Wrangler, if I can substantially reduce my monthly payment. With that little S-10 for a work vehicle, I can easily keep the miles down on a Jeep to allow me to lease one. That's been the problem... too many miles per year to even consider a lease.
I probably couldn't part with Thelma Jane, though, even for a super deal on a new one.
Don't know how much water gets in with the windows out, I've never encountered that. But, I figure if its not raining on me, whatever gets in the Jeep can get out fairly easily, and the dash and electronics are protected with the full doors and windows and top, so its only the back that would catch rain.
I haven't looked into them lately, Tsjay, but I don't think money factors on leasing vehicles are particularly low right now. Just because interest rates on financing a car are low right now, I don't think you'll find that it necessarily translates into lower rates on leases. As a matter of fact, most of the auto manufacturers have been trying to entice consumers into buying as opposed to leasing for a while now. It's the latest trend. When I bought my Sahara in July, I got an interest rate of 4.9%. The money factor at that time translated into an interest rate of around 8%!!
Besides, who are you kidding? You could never part with Thelma Jane!
tsjay, wranglers are not cheap to lease, I know from checking in to it myself that it was much cheaper per month for me to buy my wrangler than to lease it. Even though they have good resale value they never run lease specials on them. If you were going to get a 2002 I think the best bet would be the zero percent interest.
I doubt very seriously if I will trade. The ONLY reason I would think about it is to get a lower payment, but I'm sure there's no way to recover the loss you take in trade-in vs. what you pay for the new one.
My Thelma has just over 12K miles on her, so I really have a "new" Jeep anyway. With that little S-10 for a work truck, I can keep the miles way down on Thelma Jane and keep her lookin' good for years to come. So, why should I trade?
I meet up with your wife and her father at the Jamboree... They were in 101 and we were in the Yellow group so obviously we didn't run the same trails. But I met her the first night... She stayed at the same hotel as me, the big A on the back of the jeep gave it away! She seemed to have a very enjoyable time, plus she won a Hi-Lift Jack, although I'm sure you know all this. Next year she'll be ready for the next group up. Both of them were very friendly.
First of all, I can't ever imagine tsjay parting with Beloved Thelma Jane - it just couldn't happen!!
Secondly, all this talk about trading in has got me thinking about resale value. I've heard the re-sale value on Wranglers is good, but I would like to get some numbers from people who have bought, used, and then re-sold their Jeeps just to get an idea of what it is. I paid (errr, am PAYING) about $19,000 for my Jeep, and I'm hoping that if I take good care if it I can resell it in 4 1/2 years with about 100,000 miles on it for $9,000 - $10,000. Is this realistic? So far I've been very careful with keeping it clean...I've actually been getting it hand washed about once every 10 days - 2 weeks, with every third wash including a hand wax job. So after over 6 months and 9,500 miles, it still looks fantastic, especially when it rolls out of the car wash with that wax and armor all on it.
So let's hear some figures from you Jeep veterans!
I can only give you an idea based on my experience buying my '94 YJ and then trading it in--I bought it used at a wholesale auction in 1997 for $9000 ( a stripped down 4-cylinder, soft-top model) with 19K on it. I traded it in a year later for $9500 after putting another 9K miles on the odometer. I'd say that's holding value.
For TJs, there are probably some '97 models coming up for resale with close to 100k miles on them somewhere. Try autotrader.com and you can probably get an idea of what to expect when your Jeep gets that old.
I have a 91' Ford Festiva I'll be driving this winter. Not much of a car but the gas mileage is excellant. I'm going to try and keep my Jeep in her garage during the winter except during heavy snow falls and maybe a trip or two to some frozen lakes I can't wait!
I just recieved a quote of 23,584 for a '02 Sport with canyon wheel group, dual tops, conv group, AC, tinted tops, sentry, 7 speaker/ subwoofer package (no CD, I am installing aftermarket)
This quote is inclusive of all dealer fees and is about 3.7% (875) over invoice of 22,709 which seems kind of high from what I've read here. Any suggestions?
Redkey1, I got my '02X for $20 over invoice, plus fees. Carsdirect.com was a couple hundred more. I got $500 from holdback on my trade also. Nalley Jeep in Roswell, GA. Also, check out Jasperjeep.com in North GA. Great deals, but staff are jerks. btw, I (and my neighbors) have been more than impressed with the 7 speaker package.
If they are offering you 0% financing I would take it, what are you going to squeeze them for? Another couple hundred? Also, I heard that Jeep is offering a $500.00 rebate to any past or present military personnel. If you served you can mention that to them.
Forget the 0% financing for a second--that is not coming out of the dealer's costs, it's coming from the company. $800+ over invoice is not a deal, and it is at least $600 more than you need to be paying. We had a discussion about this a few months ago during one of the chats, maybe you should stop by tonight.
I know there is a difference where the money is going, but really... How much do you think you are saving at 0% compared to 3.9%? Quite a bit! If you like the Jeep and it is what you want then don't screw around over a couple hundred dollars. I guess you can try to chew them down a little more... Why not? The worst thing they can say is no... Good luck. I just wish I had waited two months to buy mine! I thought I was getting some deal! 1.9% for 36 months! LOL!!! Guess the joke is on me!
im still hanging in... hopefully my work schedule will slow down a little next month... tjx02..I got my Jeep (tazz) at Jasper Jeep.. I was treated VERY nice..I did most of my dealing with them over the phone.. It was by far the best expeierebce ive had on buying a car. Plus its a beautiful dealership... OK..Tsjay..calm down...take a breath...you dont need a 3rd vehicle.. Thelma is already jea;ous of you & that s-10.. You guys keep posting
Well, I had to check it out, but it looks like there is nothing out there as far as a purchase or a lease deal that would lower my monthly payments.
My dealer says there is no special deal going on as far as leasing on Wranglers, and for purchase deals, there is just the $500 rebate or 0% interest for 36 months (or 4.9% for 48 to 60 months).
That's fine with me- I didn't want to trade Thelma Jane anyway!
I also checked carsdirect and they quoted me 22,657 for the same options as I stated but it says there may be extra ("ad") fees added on which is OK b/c I wasn't gonna pay them anyway! However, I also got a quote for an '02 X model with Ecco wheels, CD/7 spkr and hard top for 20,980. I am seriously considering this route b/c I can save myself $1600 (well $1000 after I buy an aftermarket soft top)for really only giving up the canyon '30 wheels which I can live without and the dana 44/gas-shocks which I don't think I need b/c I will not be doing serious offroading. any suggestions?
Redkey, my TJ is an X with the Ecco tire/wheel group, which includes the 7 speaker sound. I also have the light group and soft top with half doors. Just about as stripped as you can get without ordering. No mats, no ABS, no SentryKey. I paid $19,980 ($20 over invoice.) Of course, I also paid the xtra fees. I also added LoJack for $500. I used the same reasoning on tires/wheels and axles. If I wanted to get into serious off-roading, I'd buy an old Jeep and start rebuilding. I am planning to swap bumpers, add some lights, safari doors and nerf bars. The only thing I wish I'd gotten different are the full doors. They are only $125 option, but very expensive as add-ons. The zips are fine, and are more "Jeep" but I see getting tired of them in winter. As for dealers, Jasper Jeep and Nalley in GA sell at invoice, and Nalley will match CarMax. If there is a CarMax near you, they can transfer from any other carmax, for a fee. Good luck.
There's now reason to pay over invoice for the Wrangler. I got mine for a few hundred below invoice in August - If you are near Tulsa, OK call Melton Chrysler Jeep. The most pleasant car buying experience I've ever had - in and out in about 20 minutes.
Subwoofer is definitely worth it. I've own both ways, and the sound is much better with it.
Resale vale: I bought my 97 for around 21k, sold it about 39 months later with 38k on it for almost 17k. The Wrangler has got to be the best resale value there is - anyone know?
The Wrangler was the best resale value a few years ago according to Money magazine--I remember my mother pointed this out to me after I bought mine. 5-year residual value was around 75% of the new price. From the prices I've seen that is probably still the case except for maybe vehicles that are in short supply new--PT cruisers, etc.
thanks for the info, I would much rather have the half doors but living in boston, I really think a hard to p isneccessary so I have to get full doors. hopefully, i can pick up some 1/2 doors at some point.
Broke down and bought a new Jeep today. I have been looking for a while I rented one for a day over the labor day weekend. With the 0% deal couldn't wait any longer.
Its a Solar Yellow 2002 Sport with Canyon wheels, dual tops, Automatic, A/C, Dana 44 with Trac Loc Differential, Deep tint sunscreen, Speed control, CD player with 7 speakers and side steps.
Still working on name, I want 14er, but will probably go with either Weebie or Weebers which are nicknames for my wife. Kinds of fits the yellow color better than naming after mountains (she doesn't like 14er anyway).
Bought the Jeep to replace a 1989 Bronco II. I want to tow it behind my motor home and then use it to get into back country for hikes. I live in Aurora CO and will take it to the mountains tomorrow. I have a couple of good pics from the labor day trip up near engineer pass of the one I rented (which looks almost the same as the one I just bought). I guess I'll have to re-figure out how to post to my WEB site so you can see some pics.
Anyway it was sooooo much fun today driving it home I had to stop and buy a CD Since I didn't take one with me (wasn't sure I was going to just go and buy today). Looking forward to posting with the group.
Way to go! You will not regret getting a Jeep, especially out there where you live. By all means, figure out how to post some pics of that baby (and include some nice shots of the beautiful scenery too).
You are one lucky dude to live so close to the Rockies! I LOVE them. When ya gonna go to RMNP up in Estes Park? Or over to Aspen? Or down to the San Juans? Can I come live with you?
OK, Folks, this is not for my benefit, since I already have my Jeep and am not in the market for a new one now. But, to help the people who are seriously considering buying a new Jeep, those of you who have recently bought one can help these folks by telling the group what you paid for yours IN RELATION TO INVOICE.
It was a tremendous help to me when I bought Thelma Jane to know what others had paid for their Jeeps IN RELATION TO INVOICE. I got that info right here in good old Wrangler IV.
I guess you can tell that I think it's important to always relate your purchase price to the invoice price. I don't know of any other way to compare deals without quoting your purchase price versus the invoice price for your particular vehicle. There are so many possible option combinatoins that you can't compare deals unless the the deals being compared are for vehicles equipped exactly the same way, unless you talk in terms of selling price vs. invoice.
Trade-ins also complicate matters. The dealer may make you a great deal on the new Jeep, and then sock it to you on trade-in allowance. The best way to shop for a Jeep (or any other new vehicle) is to keep the trade-in out of the picture until you get the best deal on the new Jeep with no trade-in. Tell them you want their best price on a clean deal with no trade-in. You can shop over the phone this way, if you know exactly what options you want. Be willing to order from the factory to get what you want. Once you get a Jeep specced out by one dealer, then get the print-out from him. They put the options you want into the computer and it spits out an order form showing all the options and the retail price. You are not obligated at all at this point.
You can take that order form to several dealers and have them give you their best price on that Jeep. You then have a DIRECT comparison for the deals on the new Jeep.
Up to this point, trade-in has not been a factor, and that allows you to really see who is giving you the best deal on the new Jeep. Once you find the best deal on the new Jeep, you can visit the dealers and have them give you their best shot on your trade-in.
People, please believe me, it gets really hard to tell which deal is really the best if you just go out and look at Jeeps that are already on the lot and are equipped differently, and then you throw in the various trade-in allowances that you are offered on the different vehicles that you have looked at. That's why it's best to know EXACTLY what equipment you want and then shop that particular Jeep at different dealers, and leave trade-in out of the picture until you have found the best deal on the new Jeep.
What you are going to care about the most, of course, is the DIFFERENCE you will have to pay between your trade-in and the new Jeep, so the best deal may not be at the dealer who sells you the new Jeep at the lowest price, since his trade-in allowance may be too low.
You need to have a very good idea about what the trade-in value of your vehicle is before you even start shopping. You can use Edmunds, Kellybluebook.com, or msncarpoint.com to get an idea about the trade-in value.
Also, check your local papers for similar vehicles to see what they are selling for, but these prices wil be retail, and you can't expect a dealer to give you retail for your trade-in. They have to make a profit on selling that vehicle.
One last thing... there was a lot of confusion in here about what the "invoice price" really includes and what it doesn't include.
What is included in the official invoice price is:
A) The base price plus the options
The destination charge (was $585 last year)
C) National Advertising Fee
D) Regional Advertising Fee
The ad fees vary from region to region, but Thelma Jane's were $125 and $160 for a total of $285. (This was for the St. Louis region)
The regional ad fees are higher in densely populated areas, since air time on TV and radio is higher in these areas.
Edmunds does not include ad fees when you look up the invoice price of your new Jeep, so keep that in mind.
Don't be bashful about demanding to see or even to receive a copy of the invoice when you are shopping. That is very common nowadays, and the dealer won't be shocked or offended that you ask for it (or at least he shouldn't be).
You may not be too concerned about saving a couple hundred bucks as long as you get the Jeep you really want, and I can't blame you for that, but there was a difference of $3440 in the three deals that I was offered from the dealers I checked with! And, yes, this is a DIRECT apples to apples comparison! I was pricing the exact same new Jeep at all three places and, of course, I had the same trade-in vehicle at all three places. So, it pays to shop around.
Oh yeah, almost forgot... the dealer "fees." Almost every dealer has a fee that they charge you for the "privilege" of buying a vehicle from them. They call it different things at different dealers, but all it is is more profit for them. Some dealers will negotiate this fee and others won't. It was called the "customer service fee" at my dealer and was $149.00. This is supposedly the fee for the paper work involved in selling you a new vehicle. You can try to negotiate this fee, but my dealer wouldn't budge.
Just bought (well subject to approval of 0.0% financing - the chrysler systems went down but they had already run my credit app and there was no reason the score wouldn't qualify) an '02 Solar Yellow Sport w/ '30 canyon wheels, dana 44, AC, dual tops with deep tint, CD/7speaker stereo, side steps and floor mats for 21,590 incl a 400 grad rebate. They were offering 800 under invoice in their ad, which was 22,507 but then they tacked on 270 in fees/ 13 for 8 gal gas so their invoice was really 22,790 (MSRP of 24, 705). They wouldn't budge on the ad fees b/c of the deal but no stickers only license plate bracket and tire cover ads. I still ended up at about 900 under invoice with the grad rebate which I think was great. Total came to 22,883 out the door w/tax & DMV.
CONGRATS and GREAT DEAL! I paid $22,1xx for my Thelma Jane ($200 over invoice) plus tax, license, and that $149.00 "customer service fee," but I had the hard top only, not the dual tops like you got.
That Solar Yellow seems to be THE color nowadays. That's what 14er got too. I personally like it too.
Got to run up to the foothills above Denver today with the new Jeep. Since I hadn't broke her in yet I had to drive slow. It was real hard staying below 50 for the first 100 miles and below 55 until 500. I now have 230. In spite of the slow speed it was a great ride, had some good CDs and my sister-in-law and I went up to Chief mountain and did a hike. This is near Mt Evans. I was going to go to the top and get some pics, but the road is already closed for the season. My wife couldn't go because she is awaiting total knee replacement surgery Nov 12 and can't hike right now. She has been working with me on the name. Right now it looks like Randle. I took some pics and I will try and post them tomorrow with some pics of the San Juans I took over labor day.
On the purchase front, mine was $289 over invoice and the invoice included the $125 and $160 mentioned by tsjay. The 0% worked real good though nothing down no payments for 90 days. What that does mean though is you get 36 months interest free, but you spread the amount over 33 payments. So payments are a little high, but I got a Jeep.
Thanks for sharing with us. I know that people who are in the market for a new Jeep will appreciate that info on your purchase price vs. invoice.
There is a $500 rebate in lieu of the 0% 36 month financing, I believe. You guys who are in the market for a new Jeep should be aware that the rebate is factory to buyer, and it does not come out of the pocket of the dealer. So, don't let them try to make you think that they are taking a hit on that. That rebate does not affect the deal that they can offer you at all- it is direct from DC to you.
Hey Spyro, Glad you met my wife and father in law at the Jambo in NC! It was nice of you and your girlfriend to look her up.
They had a blast. She said she was really glad she took your advice on the skids. No damage to her '98 Sahara, but she said there were quite a few dents on her new skid plates.
She also told me about winning the jack. What a hoot!
Now she says she has committed me to going to the next Jeep Jamboree when I get back from Bosnia. We hope it will be springtime, but with the world the way it is you never know!
Thanks again for looking her up!
Now for a couple of opinions on subjects that have been on recently.
TIRES If you are in the market for new tires, I would like to echo mtngal on the Bridgestone Dueller AT's.
BAck in August my wife's Sahara needed new shoes. Since she has the big ol' Bear wheels prices were pretty high. I shopped around before coming upon a Firestone dealer in Cary, NC. The price for 4 new tires was less than $350 balanced and installed. Best deal by $150, and they have a 50 grand warranty.
Now, I know one of the reasons for the low price is that Bridgestone owns Firestone and they are probably being tarred with the same brush. But I felt very safe putting these tires on our Jeep and my wife says they are much quieter and did great off road at the Jeep Jamboree.
RESALE Man, this was something we agonized about when we bought our Wrangler in '98. But the fact is the Jeep holds its value so well, we felt buying new was the way to go.
In fact I looked up the retail value on ours and it has dropped to $17000. But considering we bought it for 20 grand in May of '98 that ain't bad!
But also consider my wife gets sentimental and holds onto cars forever.
Literally.
We still have her '72 Super Beetle we drove in college and we graduated in '88! So I fully expect to have this vehicle for at least 10 years and get a damn good trade in when we buy her a new Wrangler in '08!
My 2000 Sahara needs a new hat! A local thunderstorm and a tree branch punctured a 10" gash currently covered with a duct tape "band aid". Are the sailcloth replacement tops worth the extra $$ ?. Are they truly quieter as advertised? Less buffeting? As "leak proof" as original equipment? Ease of installation? I would like some experienced input before committing the higher price.
Comments
If you take the top off, you are going to want to leave it off for a long time, and if you put it on, you will want to leave it on a long time.
I got the hard top only on my 2001 Sport, but if I had it to do over, I would definitely get the soft top. I didn't realize how much more fun a Jeep could be with no top or the top down. I thought I wouldn't want the top off very often. WRONG! I love to drive my Jeep with the top AND the doors off!
The soft tops on the 2001's and 2002's are three ply, and I'm sure they would be fine in the winter.
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Hard vs. Soft: Definitely depends on your situation. I have the hard top only option, and right now, I'm very happy with it because I currently have a warehouse where I can easily store the hard top. A few months ago, though, before the warehouse came to be, I had NOWHERE to store the hard top, and it made taking it off virtually impossible. I had only taken it off once, and that was just for about 3 hours, because the top was sitting in my parents's front yard and I definitely didn't want to leave it there any longer than that. There was a time back then when part of me wished I had a soft top so I could put the top up and down whenever I wanted. But now that I do have storage space, I'm fine with just the hard top. Tsjay is right, though, it's not an easy job to take it off and put it on. It's not *difficult* but it's definitely something where you need a spare 20 minutes and a friend to help. I also am glad I have the full doors, which come with the hard top. I like the look of the half doors the best on a Jeep, but I really liked the option of keeping the windows down and having a real "open air" feeling or rolling them up and putting a little heat on when my top was off and I was driving around in the cold night. Ultimately, Mtngal was right - it depends on your situation.
yellowman
Has anyone out there used the soft top only during a northeast type winter with no garage? How do the windows hold up to freezing weather? I can store the hard top but I don't want to spend the extra $$$ if I don't need to.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Here's my humble opinion: Both tops are cantankerous - the soft top has numerous tucks to perform to raise and lower, you have to be careful not to scratch the windows, but they get scratched anyway (incredibly, the video tape that ships with the Wrangler even says exactly that!), and its not like a conventional convertible that you can quickly put up or down, but is at least with you when you need it. The hard top has 6 bolts, 2 clamps and the washer and electrical connection to disconnect which is not hard. The problem is, without a lift, its a two person job, and you run the risk of damaging it or the body of your Jeep everytime its removed/replaced.
So, my opinion is if you have a place for a lift, get the hard top or dual tops. I would not get a hard top without a lift.
If you get dual tops, then you can put the soft top on for trips, where you can raise and lower it without having a storage problem.
I've never owned the half-doors, but would have to think that using zippers for the windows would be a pain in todays world of drive thru restaurants and ATMs, so I would get the full doors either way.
So, in my humble opinion, it works out like this:
If you have a place for a lift:
1st choice: Dual tops
2nd choice: Hard top
No place for lift:
1st choice: Soft top, full doors
2nd choice: Soft top, half-doors
I factored out the noise problem, because according to everything I read, and my own experience, the new sailcloth top is at least as quiet as the hard top.
Another issue to factor depending on how long you intend to keep your Jeep is that the soft top will wear out eventually.
Hope this helps.
I have moaned and groaned over not geting a soft top for Thelma Jane when I ordered her, but I finally decided that the best possible situation was to have some other vehicle to drive, and then just leave Thelma topless and doorless. That way I can pick and choose what days I want to drive the Jeep, and having the top and doors off is not a problem.
If I had a soft top, that still wouldn't allow me to go doorless, if I had to drive the Jeep to work on days when it might rain.
To me, the ultimate way to enjoy a Jeep is with the top AND the doors off.
Where do you keep the windows when the top is down on a soft top Jeep? Just lay them in the cargo area? That would not be real handy if you had to carry stuff back there. I guess you wouldn't want to put stuff on top of the windows, if they are in the cargo area, right?
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
So they seem to do what we want pretty well - they are quiet on the highway, have much better traction on streets than the Goodyears, and can get us to "the end of the road," even if we did scrape the gas tank skid plates on a large rock...
All this fun means that we will have to do something tomorrow about turning our now brown Wrangler back to it's usual black!
I suppose the best thing to do would be have two jeeps - one for sunny days and one for rainy days!
As far as storage for my windows, I keep them in my garage laying flat, separated by the packing material that came with them.
It takes longer to put the soft top on than the hard top, so I only remove my hard top only after checking weather forecasts and conditions. Basically, that means if its not too hot or cold, and there is no rain for at least 2 days it comes off. I'm only about 7 minutes from work to my house, so I'll even take it off or put in on at lunch. So far, in over 3 years of Jeep ownership, I've only been caught in the rain once. This means that I don't get to enjoy every single hour of beautiful weather, but my Jeep goes topless quite a bit.
However, I suppose that if I worked farther away, the soft top would be better because I would be unable to just duck home and put it on.
If DC would make the softtop work like a regular convertible that would be great; I guess the window areas are just too large.
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I also love that little '89 S-10 that I bought for a work truck.
My timing stinks.
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep (and your S-10) today?
Then pack up the hardtop till next spring.
Sorry I haven been posting alot lately. Been Busy around here.
does anyone use Plexo for the softtop windows?
I was wondering if is really worth the $8.00 a bottle price.
Take care All
Keep Jeepin'
BamaTazz
The weather has been hit or miss lately, but fortunately the garage lets us keep the top down and take advantage of the great days (like today). Next top up trip for us will be heading to the outer banks of NC to do some beach driving over the Thanksgiving holiday.
I've hooked someone else on a Jeep. OK, he's only 7 years old, but while visiting friends today, he asked if I'd take him for a ride in the Jeep. When we got home he announced to his folks that when he got older, he was going to drive a Jeep!
-twylie
later,
Pokey
You got some other 4x4 to use in the winter?
I might actually check into leasing a 2002 Wrangler, if I can substantially reduce my monthly payment. With that little S-10 for a work vehicle, I can easily keep the miles down on a Jeep to allow me to lease one. That's been the problem... too many miles per year to even consider a lease.
I probably couldn't part with Thelma Jane, though, even for a super deal on a new one.
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
www.provisions.jeep.com
Besides, who are you kidding? You could never part with Thelma Jane!
My Thelma has just over 12K miles on her, so I really have a "new" Jeep anyway. With that little S-10 for a work truck, I can keep the miles way down on Thelma Jane and keep her lookin' good for years to come. So, why should I trade?
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
First of all, I can't ever imagine tsjay parting with Beloved Thelma Jane - it just couldn't happen!!
Secondly, all this talk about trading in has got me thinking about resale value. I've heard the re-sale value on Wranglers is good, but I would like to get some numbers from people who have bought, used, and then re-sold their Jeeps just to get an idea of what it is. I paid (errr, am PAYING) about $19,000 for my Jeep, and I'm hoping that if I take good care if it I can resell it in 4 1/2 years with about 100,000 miles on it for $9,000 - $10,000. Is this realistic? So far I've been very careful with keeping it clean...I've actually been getting it hand washed about once every 10 days - 2 weeks, with every third wash including a hand wax job. So after over 6 months and 9,500 miles, it still looks fantastic, especially when it rolls out of the car wash with that wax and armor all on it.
So let's hear some figures from you Jeep veterans!
yellowman
For TJs, there are probably some '97 models coming up for resale with close to 100k miles on them somewhere. Try autotrader.com and you can probably get an idea of what to expect when your Jeep gets that old.
Pokey
...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern on Thursday. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/jeepchat.html
This quote is inclusive of all dealer fees and is about 3.7% (875) over invoice of 22,709 which seems kind of high from what I've read here. Any suggestions?
hopefully my work schedule will slow down a little next month...
tjx02..I got my Jeep (tazz) at Jasper Jeep..
I was treated VERY nice..I did most of my dealing with them over the phone.. It was by far the best expeierebce ive had on buying a car. Plus its a beautiful dealership...
OK..Tsjay..calm down...take a breath...you dont need a 3rd vehicle.. Thelma is already jea;ous of you & that s-10..
You guys keep posting
Keep Jeepin
BamaTazz
My dealer says there is no special deal going on as far as leasing on Wranglers, and for purchase deals, there is just the $500 rebate or 0% interest for 36 months (or 4.9% for 48 to 60 months).
That's fine with me- I didn't want to trade Thelma Jane anyway!
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Subwoofer is definitely worth it. I've own both ways, and the sound is much better with it.
Resale vale: I bought my 97 for around 21k, sold it about 39 months later with 38k on it for almost 17k. The Wrangler has got to be the best resale value there is - anyone know?
Its a Solar Yellow 2002 Sport with Canyon wheels, dual tops, Automatic, A/C, Dana 44 with Trac Loc Differential, Deep tint sunscreen, Speed control, CD player with 7 speakers and side steps.
Still working on name, I want 14er, but will probably go with either Weebie or Weebers which are nicknames for my wife. Kinds of fits the yellow color better than naming after mountains (she doesn't like 14er anyway).
Bought the Jeep to replace a 1989 Bronco II. I want to tow it behind my motor home and then use it to get into back country for hikes. I live in Aurora CO and will take it to the mountains tomorrow. I have a couple of good pics from the labor day trip up near engineer pass of the one I rented (which looks almost the same as the one I just bought). I guess I'll have to re-figure out how to post to my WEB site so you can see some pics.
Anyway it was sooooo much fun today driving it home I had to stop and buy a CD Since I didn't take one with me (wasn't sure I was going to just go and buy today). Looking forward to posting with the group.
Way to go! You will not regret getting a Jeep, especially out there where you live. By all means, figure out how to post some pics of that baby (and include some nice shots of the beautiful scenery too).
You are one lucky dude to live so close to the Rockies! I LOVE them. When ya gonna go to RMNP up in Estes Park? Or over to Aspen? Or down to the San Juans? Can I come live with you?
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
It was a tremendous help to me when I bought Thelma Jane to know what others had paid for their Jeeps IN RELATION TO INVOICE. I got that info right here in good old Wrangler IV.
I guess you can tell that I think it's important to always relate your purchase price to the invoice price. I don't know of any other way to compare deals without quoting your purchase price versus the invoice price for your particular vehicle. There are so many possible option combinatoins that you can't compare deals unless the the deals being compared are for vehicles equipped exactly the same way, unless you talk in terms of selling price vs. invoice.
Trade-ins also complicate matters. The dealer may make you a great deal on the new Jeep, and then sock it to you on trade-in allowance. The best way to shop for a Jeep (or any other new vehicle) is to keep the trade-in out of the picture until you get the best deal on the new Jeep with no trade-in. Tell them you want their best price on a clean deal with no trade-in. You can shop over the phone this way, if you know exactly what options you want. Be willing to order from the factory to get what you want. Once you get a Jeep specced out by one dealer, then get the print-out from him. They put the options you want into the computer and it spits out an order form showing all the options and the retail price. You are not obligated at all at this point.
You can take that order form to several dealers and have them give you their best price on that Jeep. You then have a DIRECT comparison for the deals on the new Jeep.
Up to this point, trade-in has not been a factor, and that allows you to really see who is giving you the best deal on the new Jeep. Once you find the best deal on the new Jeep, you can visit the dealers and have them give you their best shot on your trade-in.
People, please believe me, it gets really hard to tell which deal is really the best if you just go out and look at Jeeps that are already on the lot and are equipped differently, and then you throw in the various trade-in allowances that you are offered on the different vehicles that you have looked at. That's why it's best to know EXACTLY what equipment you want and then shop that particular Jeep at different dealers, and leave trade-in out of the picture until you have found the best deal on the new Jeep.
What you are going to care about the most, of course, is the DIFFERENCE you will have to pay between your trade-in and the new Jeep, so the best deal may not be at the dealer who sells you the new Jeep at the lowest price, since his trade-in allowance may be too low.
You need to have a very good idea about what the trade-in value of your vehicle is before you even start shopping. You can use Edmunds, Kellybluebook.com, or msncarpoint.com to get an idea about the trade-in value.
Also, check your local papers for similar vehicles to see what they are selling for, but these prices wil be retail, and you can't expect a dealer to give you retail for your trade-in. They have to make a profit on selling that vehicle.
One last thing... there was a lot of confusion in here about what the "invoice price" really includes and what it doesn't include.
What is included in the official invoice price is:
A) The base price plus the options
C) National Advertising Fee
D) Regional Advertising Fee
The ad fees vary from region to region, but Thelma Jane's were $125 and $160 for a total of $285. (This was for the St. Louis region)
The regional ad fees are higher in densely populated areas, since air time on TV and radio is higher in these areas.
Edmunds does not include ad fees when you look up the invoice price of your new Jeep, so keep that in mind.
Don't be bashful about demanding to see or even to receive a copy of the invoice when you are shopping. That is very common nowadays, and the dealer won't be shocked or offended that you ask for it (or at least he shouldn't be).
You may not be too concerned about saving a couple hundred bucks as long as you get the Jeep you really want, and I can't blame you for that, but there was a difference of $3440 in the three deals that I was offered from the dealers I checked with! And, yes, this is a DIRECT apples to apples comparison! I was pricing the exact same new Jeep at all three places and, of course, I had the same trade-in vehicle at all three places. So, it pays to shop around.
You can read about my buying experience at...
http://www.members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html
Oh yeah, almost forgot... the dealer "fees." Almost every dealer has a fee that they charge you for the "privilege" of buying a vehicle from them. They call it different things at different dealers, but all it is is more profit for them. Some dealers will negotiate this fee and others won't. It was called the "customer service fee" at my dealer and was $149.00. This is supposedly the fee for the paper work involved in selling you a new vehicle. You can try to negotiate this fee, but my dealer wouldn't budge.
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
They were offering 800 under invoice in their ad, which was 22,507 but then they tacked on 270 in fees/ 13 for 8 gal gas so their invoice was really 22,790 (MSRP of 24, 705). They wouldn't budge on the ad fees b/c of the deal but no stickers only license plate bracket and tire cover ads. I still ended up at about 900 under invoice with the grad rebate which I think was great. Total came to 22,883 out the door w/tax & DMV.
That Solar Yellow seems to be THE color nowadays. That's what 14er got too. I personally like it too.
Sure happy for you, my man! Enjoy that baby!
Post some pics!
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
WOW 2 new jeeps in 1 day thats great
you guys will not regret it...that 02 yellow sounds nice...cant wait to see it...
I highly recommend anyone thinking about buying one GO DO IT...Now is the time.. 0.0%...doesnt get any better!!
Tomorrow is the day to put the hard top back on.. anyone wanna help?
TOM..Wow whatta post!!
Keep Jeepin
BamaTazz
http://www.geocities.com/bamatazz2001/index.html
-twylie
On the purchase front, mine was $289 over invoice and the invoice included the $125 and $160 mentioned by tsjay. The 0% worked real good though nothing down no payments for 90 days. What that does mean though is you get 36 months interest free, but you spread the amount over 33 payments. So payments are a little high, but I got a Jeep.
There is a $500 rebate in lieu of the 0% 36 month financing, I believe. You guys who are in the market for a new Jeep should be aware that the rebate is factory to buyer, and it does not come out of the pocket of the dealer. So, don't let them try to make you think that they are taking a hit on that. That rebate does not affect the deal that they can offer you at all- it is direct from DC to you.
tsjay
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Glad you met my wife and father in law at the Jambo in NC! It was nice of you and your girlfriend to look her up.
They had a blast. She said she was really glad she took your advice on the skids. No damage to her '98 Sahara, but she said there were quite a few dents on her new skid plates.
She also told me about winning the jack. What a hoot!
Now she says she has committed me to going to the next Jeep Jamboree when I get back from Bosnia. We hope it will be springtime, but with the world the way it is you never know!
Thanks again for looking her up!
Now for a couple of opinions on subjects that have been on recently.
TIRES
If you are in the market for new tires, I would like to echo mtngal on the Bridgestone Dueller AT's.
BAck in August my wife's Sahara needed new shoes. Since she has the big ol' Bear wheels prices were pretty high. I shopped around before coming upon a Firestone dealer in Cary, NC. The price for 4 new tires was less than $350 balanced and installed. Best deal by $150, and they have a 50 grand warranty.
Now, I know one of the reasons for the low price is that Bridgestone owns Firestone and they are probably being tarred with the same brush. But I felt very safe putting these tires on our Jeep and my wife says they are much quieter and did great off road at the Jeep Jamboree.
RESALE
Man, this was something we agonized about when we bought our Wrangler in '98. But the fact is the Jeep holds its value so well, we felt buying new was the way to go.
In fact I looked up the retail value on ours and it has dropped to $17000. But considering we bought it for 20 grand in May of '98 that ain't bad!
But also consider my wife gets sentimental and holds onto cars forever.
Literally.
We still have her '72 Super Beetle we drove in college and we graduated in '88! So I fully expect to have this vehicle for at least 10 years and get a damn good trade in when we buy her a new Wrangler in '08!
Anyway, everybody take care and keep on posting!
AppState88
A local thunderstorm and a tree branch punctured a 10" gash currently covered with a duct tape "band aid".
Are the sailcloth replacement tops worth the extra $$ ?. Are they truly quieter as advertised?
Less buffeting? As "leak proof" as original equipment? Ease of installation?
I would like some experienced input before committing the higher price.