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Tires, tires, tires

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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "I guess MT and AT tires ARE road tires was the point. What, if not road and offroad, would AT mean otherwise?.

    I said they were not appropriate for road/only."

    The "A" in "AT" means "A"ll. ALL TERRAIN. The poll was looking for a tire good for 90% road, 10% off road. What is so hard about that?

    "AT tires are for road/off road mixed use, not road/only use."

    So far, so good.

    "Yes, you could use them but they would be a poor choice. Are you disagreeing with this?"

    I think AT would be a good choice for the 90% on, 10% off road the poll was about.

    "Point is, most SUV owners don't have "off roading" as a requirement, so they don't need A/T tires...how many SUVs come equipped with them?"

    That might have been YOUR point, but not that of the poll or me. You can't change the equation half way through.
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "I have a '98 Corolla LE that came with OE 185/65r14's (MS rated). @ 40k replaced them w/ Firestone Firehawk SH30 195/60r14's (also MS rated) and quite satisfied w/ them still 20k later."

    Sounds like a good choice. I was looking at those also. Also comparing to the Dunlop SPA2 things. I think I might go with the Dunlop because a local place will price match and they carry those, but not the other. I'll just bring in a TireRack printout.
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/internet/09/19/offbeat.smiley.reut/index.html
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    li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    That might have been YOUR point, but not that of the poll or me.

    Not so. When you said a tire good for 90% road 10% off road was good for your "typical SUV owner", you made it your point. But this is not productive (deja vu ;-) ), so I'll drop it.
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    sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I tried putting on size 195/60/14 as a replacement for the 185/65/14's and I felt immediate torque steer every time I started from a complete stop. The steering wheel actually moved to the right with each take off from a stop. Went back to the original size tires and the torque steer disappeared. Any thoughts as to why this happened. I really liked the extra bit of more tread on the 195/60's but with my girls driving the car also, wasn't worth the aggrivation with the torque steer.

    The Sandman :-)
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    The vast majority of feathering problems come from poor alignment, specifically incorrect toe in/toe out condition. There are three adjustments that can be made during an alignment - castor, camber, and toe in/toe out. A good alignment tech will make sure all three are within mfr spec at least and will make adjustments to correct known problems at best.


    A front wheel drive car will exacerbate a toe in/toe out problem because the front tires are sorta twisting to propel the car forward. Suspension wear increases as well.


    Where on the tire did the excessive wear show, inside edge or outside?


    Here's an excellent article on alignment that might help shed some light on your problems. At least next time you're at the tire shop you can "habla" on the same level as the techs. http://www.mtdealer.com/ph_alignment_2002.cfm

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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I noticed that a little bit also.

    Have you checked to make sure the roads you are testing on don't have ruts or crowns? That was where I really noticed it the most.

    The rest was liveable for me.
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    sensei1sensei1 Member Posts: 196
    Hey Sandman, I think I remember your post from the Corolla bb. Sorry I can't relate to your situation. The only time I can say I noticed some t-s was when I stomp on the gas a bit when turning from a stop. Isn't t-s a characteristic of FWDs when you stomp on it? How bad is it for you?

    Oh another thing about my Firehawks. I was skeptical at first after all that Firestone tire hoopla with the Explorers. The tire shop (makes sense to me) pointed out that this would be a good time to buy their tires since they're currently under the microscope. Have a good day..
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    tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    Thanks for the education on feathering. I've read that interesting link and now at least understand what camber, caster and toe in/out are refering to. Still puzzled how mine got feathered and there may be no definitive answer. Perhaps the alignment was bad all along, masked by the need for the tie rod end in June and the tire wear after that. Those tires must have been in back when it developed since they didn't get moved to front till the June rotation. Whatever the cause, I know one thing for sure - eventually going to cost money for new tires!

    Thanks again

    Ken
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/Accessories-Tires.htm
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    http://www.willystech.com/faqs/Breakout/Tires.html
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    some cool tires here:


    http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/tirechoices.htm

    http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/photos5.htm


    "The XLs are 10.9" wide and are 38.7" tall"


    "XZLs are a great tire for someone that want s an aggressive mud tire that doesn't howl excessively on the highway, and that wears slower than the XL."


    "The 9.00R16 XZL is 36.5" tall and 10.3" wide"


    "A program by Michelin for MVPA members to purchase military specification tires from their local dealers at discounted prices is described on the Michelin Tire page."

    http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/michelintires.htm

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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    For those looking for info on what to use for off-roading, the links are quite informative.

    And those old Dodge Power Wagons are awesome!
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "...For those looking for info on what to use for off-roading, the links are quite informative."

    Did you miss this part: "XZLs are a great tire for someone that wants an aggressive mud tire that doesn't howl excessively on the highway, and that wears slower than the XL."

    These are not exclusively offroad tires. HOWEVER, these are a little bit of a specialty item. They are more applicable to nostalgic trucks and SUV's than for more current SUV's, which are much better served by something like the BFG AT's.
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    li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    These are not exclusively offroad tires.

    That's not what bretfraz said...he said:

    For those looking for info on what to use for off-roading...

    This is the point I was making (or close enough, anyway).

    A tire that is "not exclusively off road" is not the same as a "tire meant for on-road use".

    The point is that the only reasons to buy an SUV tire that is good for "on-road" AND "off road" use is a) you do some off roading or b) you want to look like you do.

    If you only use your SUV on road (most SUver's, IMO), there's no practical reason to buy a tire that is good for part-time off road use.
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "These are not exclusively offroad tires.

    That's not what bretfraz said...he said:

    'For those looking for info on what to use for off-roading...'"

    This is the point I was making (or close enough, anyway).

    A tire that is "not exclusively off road" is not the same as a "tire meant for on-road use"."

    Yes. It may not be for JUST on road use, but it is intended as a compromise, to give up some trail capabilities for on road manners.

    "The point is that the only reasons to buy an SUV tire that is good for "on-road" AND "off road" use is a) you do some off roading or b) you want to look like you do."

    OK, so what's YOUR point?

    "If you only use your SUV on road (most SUver's, IMO), there's no practical reason to buy a tire that is good for part-time off road use."

    For that matter, what is the practical reason to buy an SUV then? (IMO means "In My (your) Opinion", right? Then it is just that, your opinion. I don't see the reasoning in buying an SUV if you don't use it as such. You might as well just get a car, truck, or van then.
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    li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Yes. It may not be for JUST on road use, but it is intended as a compromise, to give up some trail capabilities for on road manners.

    Don't take this the wrong way, but that's obvious. That statement doesn't address anything I said.

    The only reason to buy a tire that is a compromise between on and off road use is if you do some off roading. Therefore, only those looking for info on what to use for off-roading (what bretfraz said) would be interested in those tires.

    That's my point.

    For that matter, what is the practical reason to buy an SUV then?

    There's a different forum for that question. It's off topic here, and irrelevant to what we're discussing. 90% of SUVs never go off road and all of those need tires. Which means they probably do not need a tire that is a compromise between on and off road.

    (IMO means "In My (your) Opinion", right? Then it is just that, your opinion.

    Was there a question in there? ;-)

    I don't see the reasoning in buying an SUV if you don't use it as such.

    Me neither.

    In any case, I think most folks looking for SUV tires need tires that are exclusively on-road. Yes, that's my opinion, maybe I'm wrong.

    BTW, I've looked back in this topic for a discussion of on-road SUV tires and didn't find any (I didn't check all posts), maybe I'll keep lurking until it swings onto that topic again.
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    You mean car tires? Why not just buy a car? I am at a loss, and have no more time (nor do others here, I am sure).

    Good day.
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    alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Now that's a GREAT question, LOL!
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    li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Yep, today was pretty good ;-)

    You mean car tires? Why not just buy a car?

    I repeat. 90% of SUVs never go off road. At all. Car manufacturers admit this. I don't know what your point is in not accepting this, but it's true.

    There are both good and bad reasons (IMO) to buy an SUV and not use it to go off road, but that discussion is OT here. In any case, the reasoning is beside the point...those SUVs need tires and not off road tires.
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Truck tires?
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    alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Why is this so difficult?
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Why is it that I seem to keep reading the same posts over and over? :-)

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
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    li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Nah...it's user error ;-)

    Actually, sometimes the message gets lost.
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    The messages don't get lost. What gets lost is the messenger.

    And I appreciate your support.
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    http://www.high-tec-retreading.com/


    and


    http://www.high-tec-retreading.com/diamond.html


    testimonials:

    http://www.high-tec-retreading.com/testimonials.html


    sizes and prices:

    http://www.high-tec-retreading.com/sizes.html

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    alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Ho boy!
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    This is a winter tire, and beats the Blizzak.

    TRAIL MASTER A/T


    The Trail MAster A/T provides excellent rideability. This tire is a perfect blend of ice biting traction and quiet comfortable performance. For front and rear axel applications.


    http://www.greendiamondna.com/products2.HTML#

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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    And I can beat it with one word:

    Nokian.
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    the hack up a lunga is a great tire, just tricky on the spelling.

    these look like they might actually give it a run for the money, for a LOT LESS money!
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    microrepairmicrorepair Member Posts: 508
    I will state that I've had a set of four Nokian tires on my Mercedes for 3 seasons and they give excellent traction and handling with very frugal wear. I have 18-20K on them and they look brand new. I hear that most Blizzaks are completely worn out before 20K. (I said "heard"; it's only hearsay so don't flame me..!)
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    eharri3eharri3 Member Posts: 640
    Because I work at Sears and am in the process of having all family vehicles' tires replaced by the same commissioned automotive associate, he may soon hook me up with a chance to purchase a set of 4 Bridgestone Dueler APT II's for 350 with mounting, balancing, valve stems, and full alignment. I know it's an excellent truck tire with real good traction, but the thing is, I never take the truck off road(rear drive) and I drive in snow for maybe a month out of the year. But I drive around tight corners all year long. Is the road holding and handling characteristics of these tires at least average or above?

    thanks
    ed
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I'd get some good summer truck tires, and then buy some of those inexpensive greendiamond tires a few posts back and mount on a spare set of rims. Just throw them on for the snowy month, and you'll have a nice, smooth, economical ride the rest of the year.
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    samsvr6samsvr6 Member Posts: 59
    I am seriously considering the Nokian NRW all season tires that is also certified for severe service rqmt.. Are you using the NRW or something else? If you are, I have a few questions for you. Do you leave them on all-year round? How is the noise level compared to your previous all season tires(what brand and model)? What about ride comfort? Lastly, did you notice any drop in fuel economy?

    Tahnks in advance.
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    microrepairmicrorepair Member Posts: 508
    samsvr6:

    The Nokians I have are not all-season, they are snow & mud tires. They do generate more noise than summer tires, but due to the curved-v arrangement of the lugs, they aren't as noisy as any snow tires I've had in the past.
    The ride and handling are maybe 95% as good as summer or all-season tires. No difference in fuel economy that I could notice.
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    downeaster16downeaster16 Member Posts: 14
    Nokian advertises the NRW as an "All-Weather-Plus" tire on their web site. They don't call it "all-season", but they clearly meant for it to be usable in all seasons, while meeting the severe service rqmt. for winter driving. My last car had NRW's at the recommendation of a local tire dealer. Ride and handling were very good, wet traction was excellent, and although they aren't quite as good in winter conditions as Nokian's "straight" winter tires (like the Hakka Q), they're better than just about any "all-seasons" out there. They also have very good treadwear. The only negative, in my experience, was a moderate noise level at speeds of about 25-40 mph. They seemed quieter at highway speeds, however. The NRW's are one of the tires I'm considering getting once the OEM tires on my present car wear down, but if the OEM's prove poor in snow, I may not wait that long!

    P.S. Etires.com sells a number of different brands of tires and they call the NRW "the best tire we sell".
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    downeaster16downeaster16 Member Posts: 14
    I understand that Nokian is phasing out the NRW and introducing a new tire to replace it, the Nokian WR. If it is really better than the NRW (especially in reduced noise, go that route!
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    samsvr6samsvr6 Member Posts: 59
    Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I am also aware of the new WR. I checked the Nokian North American website and they only have the WR for trucks. I wonder if they are going to make them available to cars in NA and if they do, when. Hope they will make it before winter starts. The WR is currently available for cars in Europe.
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    tireguytireguy Member Posts: 200
    You're a good man. I can't believe you're still so prolific on this forum. There's got to be some outstanding public service award somewhere with your name on it. It was actually healthy for me to get out of the tire world and stop spending so much time on my computer. I had almost forgotten what color the sky was. And it was strange to communicate with people without first positioning my fingers on the home keys.
    But I guess my new hobbies have worked out for me pretty well.
    Though I do miss chatting with you folks. The other day I had some Pilot XGT-H4s put on my Jetta at Sam's club. I tipped the guy $10 and a Gatorade and he still screwed up the balancing. He thought the weights were marked in hundreths of an ounce when they were actually in grams, and he obviously didn't check his work with a re-spin. So after a wobbly ride halfway home and a U-turn I got to waste the rest of my afternoon waiting for them to re-balance my wheels. It just goes to show no matter how nicely you treat the "technicians" in your quest for professional service, sometimes it's like trying to draw water from a rock.
    Well my wife is yelling that she wants to use the phone--yes, I have one of those old-fashioned 56K modems--so I better sign off before she comes in and sees that I'm on "that tire site" again and walks out on me.
    I wish you all the best in your search for traction, longevity and good handling. GO MICHELIN!
    --Chris Meixell
    1stLt USMC
    Naval Aviator #26719
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hey Tireguy! Always good to see you popping in here. Bretfraz is doing a great job, but you're always welcome....

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    I can't come close to the level of excellence you created here but I do try to help as much as I can. I hope that I've helped a few people whereas you've helped many. We all miss you. Come back as frequently as you can. The light is always on and there's food in the fridge.

    - - Bret - -
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Thank you both for sharing your pools of knowledge.

    Although we don't always agree, I respect you a lot Bretfraz. You've corrected me or informed me on things I did not know numerous times.

    Just thought I'd take that moment. Now back to our regular programming.
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    malachy72malachy72 Member Posts: 325
    I saw a guy driving a Honda civic on the highway today with 4 of the mini spare tires on his axles.
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    sensei1sensei1 Member Posts: 196
    This Honda Civic either had a real nice tire and wheel set up that somebody else now has or in transition of getting a nice set and the shipment is running late. ;-)
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    alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    has a Boy Racer-type for an owner who's waiting for his underbody neon lights, wing and ground effects, "Type R" badges and coffee can exhaust tips to arrive. It's hard to have allt he HP enhancers arrive at the same time when you buy on-line, ya know.
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    http://www.simexeurope.co.uk/tyres/4x4/4x4_jungle.htm


    Does anyone know if these tires are distributed in the US? They were in the process of getting their DOT approval.


    image


    image

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    alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    They'd look great on my Passat - will they fit with the steel wheels?
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    porknbeansporknbeans Member Posts: 465
    Why would you even want to put these things on your truck? Unless you are doing 100% off-roading these things are for somebody with more testosterone than common sense. Just my opinion.
    Porknbeans

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I take that as a "No" for you two?

    ;-)
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    anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    They have less aggressive treads for those who do not take their SUV off road, but these are the particular ones I was interested in.

    The original web site referenced shows them all.

    Nobody on the DOT part of this original question?
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