When in college, I had all 4 tires slashed. Two of them were snow tires. I plugged the sidewalls, and drove it that way for at least 2 years! I even drove it up to 90!
that says that the doorjam inflation recommendations only apply to the OEM tires. Comments? Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I'd say those specs might apply to any OEM SIZED tires (meaning any tires of that particular size).
I guess it depends on the wording of the sticker, and of course, "what is is" (Klinton screwed everything up with that comment), in other words...IT DEPENDS HOW YOU WANT TO READ IT!
What is happening here is a confusion about the recommended inflation pressure and the maximum inflation pressure.
There is a standardizing organization in the US called the Tire and Rim Association (TRA). In Europe it is ETRTO (European Tire and Rim Technical Organization). These standardizing bodies set the load / inflation tables as well as sizing standards. A tire manufacturer does not have to adhere to this, but I do not know of anyone who doesn't, including the federal government. (There is safety in numbers!!) These load tables are published in a yearbook that is an inch thick, which is why you do not see these tables published on the web.
For a given size, there is only one relationship between inflation pressure and load carrying capacity. And there is a maximum inflation pressure.
HOWEVER --- There have been some recent exceptions granted for the maximum inflation pressure for P metric tires. The increase is from 35 to 44, but no increase in load.
So the load table is still applicable, but what is printed on the sidewall of the tire may vary depending on when the tire was manufactured and when the molds were restamped (and some haven't been restamped yet!!)
Bottom line - It makes no difference who manufactures the tire, whether it is an OE tire or not - the inflation pressure on the vehicle placard is applicable.
I like to use 3 to 5 psi above the placard. I get better fuel economy, better tire wear, better wet traction, better snow traction, better steering response, better tire durability, and only give up a bit of ride harshness.
"They" say you should check your tire pressures once a month. Don't trust the guys at the shop to do it. These guys are paid by the hour and this is one of the easiest things to shortcut. Besides, there are a lot of mechanics you don't know where to look for the proper inflation. No, it is not on the sidewall.
Yep. Only available at WalMart. Researched at michelin.com and they are similiar to the other 3 bretfraz listed. Noticed on the sidewall notation that they are "X Radial".
They are okay so far; ride okay, a little vibration handle good, but I have not been in the wet yet. I did notice that a little of a couple of the outlined, raised white letters missed being painted. I am going back within the next week to ask them to remount and rebalance the driver side rear tire. I am feeling some vibration, esp. at higher speeds. Looked at the tires and all seem okay except that one had a large weight and medium weight on one side, then a small weight about 80 degrees on one side. Excessive weight probably an indication of a problem? Maybe if they dismount the tire, rotate 90 - 180 degrees, then rebalance, that might help. If they can not get it better than this, I am going to make them spend some time trying to get it correct or push them to replace the tire.
The one real grip I have with Walmart is that they mounted, balanced & installed the tires. Only test drive was from the tire bay about 40' to a parking place. Even though the tires are rated 35 max pressure, the installer claimed they needed to be 40 and actually had 2 of them to 42. Isuzu recommends 30 front, 35 rear for Trooper, but I usually keep 35 in all 4.
I did a little shopping around and was quoted $140 - $200 tire for comparable Bridgestone & Goodyears. Of course, Bridgstone runs an ad this week with some of their better Duler tires (693 H/T? & xxx H/L) $90 - $110 each...not sure if I would have gone with them since I was replacing the stock Bridg. 684 that have always had a minor vibration and were developing some noise.
I got my last set of tires at WalMart - Michelin Symmetry's on our Nissan Ques SE. They had by far the lowest price on the tires I could find. I admit I was a bit worried about having them mount & balance the tires. But, they did an absolutely great job. The balance was PERFECT and they didn't put a mark on the nice alloy wheels. I suppose it's a crap shoot though, depends who ends up working on your car.
Regarding plugs, I just finished fixing one of those tires tonight. Found a nail in one. I've been doing this myself for about 5 years now - from the time we moved to this neighborhood, which has a lot of new construction going on. I gave up trying to get them fixed at a garage. They are always too busy around here to get to it within a day or two. I bought a Monkey Grip kit at Wally World for about 4 bucks. I'd say I've patched tires 8 or so times and had no trouble at all.
Of course, the right way to do it is to have the tire dismounted and apply an internal patch. But I can't see waiting two days to have it done. YMMV.
I only caught a portion of a news segment on Ford finding separation problems with some original equipment Continental tires. Has anyone heard anymore details about this situation. I was looking at a set of Continental Sport SUV tires, 31 x 10.5 x 15.
I am about to change the stock Michelin tires. The stock tires are 205/55/16 and I am thinking of buying 225/50/16 tires.
Can anyone say if the wider (but somewhat lower profile) tires will fit? Also, the stock rims that I will not replace are 6.5JJ. The new tires have a range of 6-8 for the rims. Am I pushing it towards the lower limit of the rim range?
Well, in Wal-Marts defense, we used to have a regular poster in this very discussion by the name of Tireguy and he worked at Sams Club. Haven't seen him her for a while now - joined the Marines and family duties also called, iirc. But I'd take his advice anyday.... Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
dhoff: How have your Symmetrys run all year? Wear? In snow or ice? Relaced a set of Bridgestone Duelers on a Forester last Fall. The OEM Duelers were by far the worst tires I've ever had: terrible wear, no grip on even the hint of snow or ice. No response from Subaru and real flames from the Forester fanatics.
No flames here, but... I've had decent performance from an OEM set of Dueler H/T 687s. Decent in snow, decent tread life (over 30k and counting; rotated every 5k miles). Still, I'll be going with something new soon, at least the Bridgestone H/Ls or Michelins. This time around I'm looking for longer life and more quiet.
I'm going to get up and go by when they open one morning this week and discuss it with the manager. They were just too busy this weekend and I did not want to get up early again on Sunday to be there first. I would have gone back last Sunday after I had them put on, but due to an oil leak from a oil change at VIOC the day before I did not want to drive any more until they opended at mid-day.
I am going to request that they remount the tire on the wheel and try rotating it 90-180 degrees. Theory is that the heavy point on the wheel and tire might be on the same side (this tire has 3 weights on it, excessive)... Other option might be to declare the time bad and get a new one shipped in. I will work with them until they get it right.
RE: Sam's/Walmart ...Walmart owns both, but in this case they are next door to each other and completely independent in that they carry different versions of the X Radial at different prices and I don't think either would 'honor' the warranty of the other. Reasons I went with Walmart were the $13/tire difference in price for almost identical Michelin, plus there are a lot more WalMarts than Sams if you need service while out of town.
Driving on a flat can damage both the tire and the wheel. I'd have both inspected by a shop. If you want to chance it, inflate the tire and check for bulges. If it has no bulges, try driving on it and if the car drives alright, ie. no shimmy, vibration, tracks true, then maybe you got lucky.
On the other hand, if the vehicle with the flat was not driven (went flat after arriving home, then noticed before moved a day or 2 later) there should not be any damage from just sitting there. If the object caused enough damage (large hole, sidewall,etc) or possibly if the tire was driven low, but not flat for a time, then some damage could have happened. You might be able to tell by looking at the sidewall if it was driven very low, but not completely flat. If there are marks that seem to indicated running while very low, I would be prone to have a tire store or expert take a look before trusting it at speed.
"rated 35 max pressure, the installer claimed they needed to be 40 and actually had 2 of them to 42. Isuzu recommends 30 front, 35 rear for Trooper, but I usually keep 35 in all 4."
I don't understand why people don't follow the manufacturer's recommendations for pressure, especially in this day and age.
Suvshopper4: Day and night between the Bridgestone Duelers and the Michelin Symmetry. While not the grip and security of our Nokians, the Symmetrys do run straight and clean on snow/ice, do not hydroplane, are comfortable and quiet. Wear will tell. We're in Downeast Maine with snow and ice at least 1/3 year. (Old stupid joke here: summer is poor sledding). The Duelers are a poor choice for an AWD vehicle sold for all weather traction:Forester. Even Consumer Reports rated them "poor" in snow. But to wear below the treadwear guides at 25K is a little much. Did rotate at around 6-7K .To their credit Bridgestone did offer a generous discount on any Bridgestone model set.
Go to your nearest tire dealer, and tell them what vehicle you have, what kind of driving you do, and what your budget is. They should be able to give you the exact tire which fits your criteria.
What they will give you is a spiel to convince you why their most expensive or their highest-margin tires are the best for you. Only the rare dealer will really tell you that your driving doesn't justify the cost of high performance or summer only tires, if they could instead sell you a set by lying!
It certainly helps to do your research - anecdotal (such as Edmunds Townhall) as well as real (tire comparisons at places like tirerack, epinions, carreview etc). You will make a more informed decision that way!
Here is a couple of suggestions. Start with OE replacement if you were happy with them. Usually, OE tire is fair quality and a lesser price. If you need/want more ride quality, handling, or smoothness the price will go up and you can look at Michelin, Yokohama, Dunlop touring tires. Try a warehouse club for best prices or if service is more important find a good local dealer that others (friends/office mates) have had good luck with. I'm sure if you post more of what you want in a tire you'll get a better response.
I told my dealer that I already have winter tires and don't want all seasons, which are just a compromise of summer ride quality for more noise, etc.
They don't really make too many "summer" or "3 season" tires any more, unless you go into the performance categories. VERY STRANGE.
What about all the cars in Florida, and the rest of the South, or the Southwest?
Do they still make 721's? I remember that as being a great tire, as well as the Goodyear Polyglas (or the one which replaced it which escapes my memory right now). They rode nice, and were quiet. Of course, they were a cruising type of tire, and not very performance oriented.
If I remember, if you got 15k miles out of set you were doing good.
Great tires? Not by a long shot. I had a car without power brakes. You could easily lock bias ply tires up, no problem. Put on a set of the early radials. Could not lock them if I literally stood on the brakes. That's the vivid comparison.
I'm sure you're right - it's been a long time since I sold tires.
OEM tires in the early 70's were mostly glass belted, and averaged 20-25,000 miles per set, which was about a 100% improvement over the older 2 and 4-ply bias ply tires. Shocks lasted about 12k miles too, and the exhaust system was good for about a year in the north.
Guess there have been some improvements in the last 30 years!
Thanks for your responses. I guess I should have been more specific and asked if anyone had purchased tires for Sienna and could provide specific feedback with regard to that particular tire.
OEMs are not an option..very dissapointed with Dunlops. They need replacing at 30k.
I put a set of Michelin X-ones on a Windstar after the oem set got beat up by 30k miles too. The X-ones wore significantly better and had better steering response to boot.
OEMs were Michelin XW4 (same tires which I easily got 40K miles out of on a Taurus wagon) so that is direct data that minivans beat tires up. Heavy weight and lots of body roll is what does it.
The significant better wear and better steering response comparison for X-ones also apply when I replaced Goodyear LS's on a sedan. The LS's were done by 23K miles because of poor wet road grip.
Does this sound like a recommendation for X-ones on your Sienna? Yes it is.
Bear in mind that OEM tires don't always have the same load, speed and treadwear, and sometimes even the same traction ratings as identical-sized retail versions of those tires. Blame it on the desire of the car manufacturer to squeeze you for every last penny!
So its unfair to compare identical tires if one is OEM and one was purchased retail.The OEM will (almost) always be substandard.
Funny how things have changed in the last 30 years or so (assuming what you say is true - I have no idea.) When I was selling BFG's in the 70's OEM tires were hand picked as the best of every run, in terms of cosmetics roundness and balance. The thought process was that we were most likely to keep the customer if he had a good experience with the OEM's.
Of course, people bought a lot more tires then, and spent a lot more for them (corrected for inflation) than today. Things worked a little differently in general.
Based on my poor OEM experience with BFG touring TAs, GY LS's and Uniroyal Laredos - you bet I won't consider those tires for a retail purchase. Why should I take the chance that the retail versions are better? What data can be offered by anyone to convince me?
So I don't care what they say or do between OEM and retail versions. If I have a bad experience with a type of tire, not due to my actions or negligence, I won't consider that tire for a retail purchase.
And considering the last 3 cars I bought all had mediocre OEM tires (see 1st para) I'll be leary of any tire that is OEM.
was delivered with Goodyears of some sort (Viva, or Arriva, or something like that...). The car was dismal in snow, unlike my first one, a Voyager that would go anywhere. We were dissapointed, and while we couldn't explain the difference, we tended to blame it on the car.
When someone kindly sliced all 4 of the Goodyears one night, we bought Michelins. The difference in snow was amazing. Of course we should have known that the difference was in the tires, but just never considered it! As mentioned befiore, they are on the car today, with 55k miles on them, and look great.
I guess its a good compromise for tire manufacturers - if they can set up an OEM deal for (relatively) substandard tires to be sold on, say, 400,000 Honda Accords every year, then they won't be hurt too much if almost no Accord owners come back and buy another set of Michelins. (Although, given that they follow the masses and buy an Accord in the first place, chances are most will still buy the same tire when its time for replacement. But that line of thought is suitable for another discussion!)
Usually, however, the OEM version of the tire offers the same handling characteristics, while suffering from lower treadwear. So, if a Michelin MXV4 with treadwear rating of 340 is provided with a new car, and people are satisfied with the handling/traction and all season capabilities - maybe its not too bad an idea to go with the 500+ treadwear rated retail version of the same tires!
Newer mazda Proteges offer a dumbed down Dunlop SP Sport 5000 - lower treadwear, but the same phenomenal all season high performance (relative to the staid and basic offerings on competitive vehicles). And that is a very popular low-profile retail tire as well.
First, the OE tire is specified by the AUTO mfr, not the TIRE mfr. If the tire mfr wants the huge OE business (and every tire mfr does) then they have to deliver a tire that meets the design specs put forth by the auto mfr or they don't get the contract. Many issues are at play here and it's a complex undertaking for a tire mfr to obtain OE business. Some tire mfr's develop a new tire model for a specific car if that's what it takes to get the business (I'm thinking of the Goodyear Eagle GA, for example). So this talk of tire mfr's selling auto mfr's "dumbed down" or inferior products is simply BS. The legal implications alone are mind-bending. I guarantee you, if the VP - Procurement of an auto mfr. discovered his company was receiving inferior products from a vendor, or product that did not meet the spec detailed in the supply agreement, the lawsuits would be staggering.
When it comes to replacement tires, it's a proven fact that consumers place a high value on treadlife; it's probably the #1 factor for consumers looking to replace a set of tires (OE or not). So tire mfr's give the people what they want by offering plenty of tire models with high treadwear ratings. Doesn't make them a good tire but that's what is being bought so that's what people get. The replacement tire business is much different than the OE tire business; some tire mfr's focus on one or the other depending on the overall picture of their business in any given market.
Bret's correct about OEM tire market being not the same as replacement. And while treadwear may be the primary consumer focus, safety is right up there. Then why would an otherwise reliable maker use OEM tires on an AWD (Forester) that not only wear out under 30K (that's to the treadwear marker) but are (rated in multiple sources and consumers) as poor in snow and ice? Both the Yokohama Geolander and Bridgestone Duelers on the 2 Forester lines are too similar in wear and performance in snow and ice. They were replaced by Michelin Symmetry as a compromise "all-season". Work fine so far. No explanation from the Subaru people on these forums. Still waiting.
There is one element of this story that has been missing:
Rolling Resistance
Part of the "specs" that vehicle manufacturers put on tires is a maximum rolling resistance. This gets to fuel economy and ultimately CAFE - which every vehicle manufacturer must meet. The OEM market works a number of different ways depending on which vehicle manufacturer is writing the specs. Some OEM's write specs for extremely low RR numbers. Others pretty much take what is presented to them. But in the end, there is at the very least a competitive pressure to be lower than your competition. The OEM's will benefit every time the RR is lowered as it takes a bit of the burden off engine performance. That is, the less fuel economy you have to get, the easier it is to make an engine powerful and run smoothly.
The common tradeoff for RR is treadwear and traction. Can't go below a certain traction level, so treadwear is what is sacrificed.
The problem comes down to this: If someone complains about treadwear to an OEM, the OEM's think it is a "tire" problem. They don't want to accept responsibility for their spec and what role it is playing in the situation. My experience is that any treadwear complaints in aftermarket tires can be traced to misalignment and/or poor rotation practices.
Another wrinkle to this problem is that some OEM's want a tire that is part of a whole tire line. So an OEM "Falcon ST" that wears poorly will contaminate the entire line, even though the rest of the line is built to aftermarket "specs" and wear great!!
I can also comment that the relationship between a tire supplier and an OEM hasn't changed much in the 30 years I have been in the business. The OEM's pretty much dictate what they want and they usually get it. The only thing that might change this is what happened 2 years ago. The tire manufacturers are starting to stand up to the OEM's and using the banner of "Safety", and the rally cry of "Recall", to add some leverage to the situation.
But I fear, the god of profit will again rise to dominance and little will have changed.
Hi everyone, I am in the market for replacement tires for my 2000 LX Honda Odyssey Minivan. I really have appreciated the great discussion here so far. I am currently looking at several tires to replace my Firestone Affinities which have started to dry rot at 33,000 miles. In general, I have not been pleased with the ride or durability of these tires. Because of my experience with these tires, and because there is so much riding on my choice of tires (my family), I have become very "picky" in my choice of tires. So far, I have eliminated the choice to the following tires: 1. Michelin X-1's 2. Michelin MX4's 3. Bridgestone Turanzas LS-T's. I looked at the Dunlop SP A/2's but even though it's a nice tire, I'm not sure it will have good winter traction in the snow as it wears (the tread pattern is not deep - just my opinion, don't be offended). I was wondering what experience other Minivan drivers have had with these or other tires. It seems like there should be ratings for Minivan Tires out there somewhere, but I have not been able to find them. Even Consumer Reports seems to rate only Sedan, SUV or Light Truck Tires. Minivans seem to be in "Tire Pugatory" stuck somewhere between performance vehicles, and Light Trucks. There seems to be no assistance with this class of vehicles. I am leaning heavily toward the X-1's. I noticed that some Chrysler Town and Country's come stock with Michelin MX4's, any T&C dirver's out there? Anyway, I know that is long winded, but I could use some help, prior to purchase. Any suggestions?
I don't think the tire service on a minivan is substantially different from that of a sedan of comparable weight. They are not trucks, despite the cafe categorizations, and definately not performance vehicles, but unit body sedans reformatted into boxes. Just use the ratings for sedans of about the same weight.
That said, I also am trying to decide between some of the same tires (Passat wagon.) I'm having a hard time reconciling the difference in price between the Michelins and the Dunlops and Pirellis. If you read the ratings on Tirerack.com given by buyers, the ones who bought the Michelins say they're much better than the Dunlops (or pirellis, or Firestones...) and the ones who bought Dunlops say they're way better than the Michelins, LOL. So much for buyer recommendations. I can't get a clear sense of which is the better tire, and since the Michelins are about twice the cost, I'm relly interested.
the equation that was not there30 years ago. Leasing new cars vs. buying. I wonder how much tread wear plays into the decision making process on new vehicles, if most are leased with a 30k mile limit on them. No one turning in a leased car is going to put new rubber on it, they may even get a junk yard tire if they are over miles and tire is dangerously worn. Just my .02
Comments
I am guessing this particular model is only available from WalMart, and is similar to another Michelin model, maybe the LTX. Correct?
LTX M/S
X Radial LT (warehouse clubs)
LT Select (WalMart)
The XC LT4 seems to have a different tread pattern but fills a similar role.
(I'm still shopping, obviously. Hey, I may even ~purchase~ new tires in the next couple months!)
Go figure! Guess I got lucky.
that says that the doorjam inflation recommendations only apply to the OEM tires. Comments?
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I guess it depends on the wording of the sticker, and of course, "what is is" (Klinton screwed everything up with that comment), in other words...IT DEPENDS HOW YOU WANT TO READ IT!
There is a standardizing organization in the US called the Tire and Rim Association (TRA). In Europe it is ETRTO (European Tire and Rim Technical Organization). These standardizing bodies set the load / inflation tables as well as sizing standards. A tire manufacturer does not have to adhere to this, but I do not know of anyone who doesn't, including the federal government. (There is safety in numbers!!) These load tables are published in a yearbook that is an inch thick, which is why you do not see these tables published on the web.
For a given size, there is only one relationship between inflation pressure and load carrying capacity. And there is a maximum inflation pressure.
HOWEVER --- There have been some recent exceptions granted for the maximum inflation pressure for P metric tires. The increase is from 35 to 44, but no increase in load.
So the load table is still applicable, but what is printed on the sidewall of the tire may vary depending on when the tire was manufactured and when the molds were restamped (and some haven't been restamped yet!!)
Bottom line - It makes no difference who manufactures the tire, whether it is an OE tire or not - the inflation pressure on the vehicle placard is applicable.
I like to use 3 to 5 psi above the placard. I get better fuel economy, better tire wear, better wet traction, better snow traction, better steering response, better tire durability, and only give up a bit of ride harshness.
"They" say you should check your tire pressures once a month. Don't trust the guys at the shop to do it. These guys are paid by the hour and this is one of the easiest things to shortcut. Besides, there are a lot of mechanics you don't know where to look for the proper inflation. No, it is not on the sidewall.
Hope this helps.
advertising, so I won't!)
Rota wheels seem like famous-brand design replicas, but very high quality ones! I'm considering the Slipstreams or the Circuit 8's or the Subzeros.
The Falken tires offered are the Ziex ZE-512 High Performance All Season tires with 30K treadwear warranty, in 195/50-15
There seems to be precious little info about either brand on the internet.
I did find out that Falken tires are made in Japan, and have good overall reviews.
Any personal experiences, opinions or reviews, people/experts?
TIA!
They are okay so far; ride okay, a little vibration handle good, but I have not been in the wet yet. I did notice that a little of a couple of the outlined, raised white letters missed being painted. I am going back within the next week to ask them to remount and rebalance the driver side rear tire. I am feeling some vibration, esp. at higher speeds. Looked at the tires and all seem okay except that one had a large weight and medium weight on one side, then a small weight about 80 degrees on one side. Excessive weight probably an indication of a problem? Maybe if they dismount the tire, rotate 90 - 180 degrees, then rebalance, that might help. If they can not get it better than this, I am going to make them spend some time trying to get it correct or push them to replace the tire.
The one real grip I have with Walmart is that they mounted, balanced & installed the tires. Only test drive was from the tire bay about 40' to a parking place. Even though the tires are rated 35 max pressure, the installer claimed they needed to be 40 and actually had 2 of them to 42. Isuzu recommends 30 front, 35 rear for Trooper, but I usually keep 35 in all 4.
I did a little shopping around and was quoted $140 - $200 tire for comparable Bridgestone & Goodyears. Of course, Bridgstone runs an ad this week with some of their better Duler tires (693 H/T? & xxx H/L) $90 - $110 each...not sure if I would have gone with them since I was replacing the stock Bridg. 684 that have always had a minor vibration and were developing some noise.
Regarding plugs, I just finished fixing one of those tires tonight. Found a nail in one. I've been doing this myself for about 5 years now - from the time we moved to this neighborhood, which has a lot of new construction going on. I gave up trying to get them fixed at a garage. They are always too busy around here to get to it within a day or two. I bought a Monkey Grip kit at Wally World for about 4 bucks. I'd say I've patched tires 8 or so times and had no trouble at all.
Of course, the right way to do it is to have the tire dismounted and apply an internal patch. But I can't see waiting two days to have it done. YMMV.
Dave
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
So the installer recommended a tire pressure higher than the manufacturer's max limit?
Amazing.
Maybe you should have asked the WalMart greeter for a second expert opinion (from the highly-trained staff).
Thanks again. Looks like that'll be my first stop for price shopping if I go with Michelins.
Can anyone say if the wider (but somewhat lower profile) tires will fit? Also, the stock rims that I will not replace are 6.5JJ. The new tires have a range of 6-8 for the rims. Am I pushing it towards the lower limit of the rim range?
Any help will be greatly appreciated!!!
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
In snow or ice?
Relaced a set of Bridgestone Duelers on a Forester
last Fall. The OEM Duelers were by far the worst tires I've ever had: terrible wear, no grip on even the hint of snow or ice. No response from Subaru and real flames from the Forester fanatics.
I've had decent performance from an OEM set of Dueler H/T 687s.
Decent in snow, decent tread life (over 30k and counting; rotated every 5k miles).
Still, I'll be going with something new soon, at least the Bridgestone H/Ls or Michelins.
This time around I'm looking for longer life and more quiet.
I am going to request that they remount the tire on the wheel and try rotating it 90-180 degrees. Theory is that the heavy point on the wheel and tire might be on the same side (this tire has 3 weights on it, excessive)... Other option might be to declare the time bad and get a new one shipped in. I will work with them until they get it right.
RE: Sam's/Walmart ...Walmart owns both, but in this case they are next door to each other and completely independent in that they carry different versions of the X Radial at different prices and I don't think either would 'honor' the warranty of the other. Reasons I went with Walmart were the $13/tire difference in price for almost identical Michelin, plus there are a lot more WalMarts than Sams if you need service while out of town.
I don't understand why people don't follow the manufacturer's recommendations for pressure, especially in this day and age.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Duelers and the Michelin Symmetry. While not the grip and security of our Nokians, the Symmetrys do run straight and clean on snow/ice, do not hydroplane, are comfortable and quiet. Wear will tell. We're in Downeast Maine with snow and ice at least 1/3 year. (Old stupid joke here: summer is poor sledding).
The Duelers are a poor choice for an AWD vehicle sold for all weather traction:Forester. Even Consumer Reports rated them "poor" in snow. But to wear below the treadwear guides at 25K is a little much. Did rotate at around 6-7K .To their credit Bridgestone did offer a generous discount on any Bridgestone model set.
It certainly helps to do your research - anecdotal (such as Edmunds Townhall) as well as real (tire comparisons at places like tirerack, epinions, carreview etc). You will make a more informed decision that way!
They don't really make too many "summer" or "3 season" tires any more, unless you go into the performance categories. VERY STRANGE.
What about all the cars in Florida, and the rest of the South, or the Southwest?
Do they still make 721's? I remember that as being a great tire, as well as the Goodyear Polyglas (or the one which replaced it which escapes my memory right now). They rode nice, and were quiet. Of course, they were a cruising type of tire, and not very performance oriented.
THOSE were some smooth riding tires!
In fact, they are the PREFERRED tires for hot rodders and off-roaders.
Great tires? Not by a long shot. I had a car without power brakes. You could easily lock bias ply tires up, no problem. Put on a set of the early radials. Could not lock them if I literally stood on the brakes. That's the vivid comparison.
OEM tires in the early 70's were mostly glass belted, and averaged 20-25,000 miles per set, which was about a 100% improvement over the older 2 and 4-ply bias ply tires. Shocks lasted about 12k miles too, and the exhaust system was good for about a year in the north.
Guess there have been some improvements in the last 30 years!
OEMs are not an option..very dissapointed with Dunlops. They need replacing at 30k.
Thanks again
Reason I ask, is I'm jugling among several tires to replace the OEM Contis on my Passat. Candidates are:
Michelin Energy MXV4+
Michelin Energy Pilot
Dunlop SP Sport 5000
Dunlop SP Sport A2
Pirelli P6000 Sport
The differences in price are significant, so I'm curious.
I put a set of Michelin X-ones on a Windstar after the oem set got beat up by 30k miles too. The X-ones wore significantly better and had better steering response to boot.
OEMs were Michelin XW4 (same tires which I easily got 40K miles out of on a Taurus wagon) so that is direct data that minivans beat tires up. Heavy weight and lots of body roll is what does it.
The significant better wear and better steering response comparison for X-ones also apply when I replaced Goodyear LS's on a sedan. The LS's were done by 23K miles because of poor wet road grip.
Does this sound like a recommendation for X-ones on your Sienna? Yes it is.
So its unfair to compare identical tires if one is OEM and one was purchased retail.The OEM will (almost) always be substandard.
Of course, people bought a lot more tires then, and spent a lot more for them (corrected for inflation) than today. Things worked a little differently in general.
So I don't care what they say or do between OEM and retail versions. If I have a bad experience with a type of tire, not due to my actions or negligence, I won't consider that tire for a retail purchase.
And considering the last 3 cars I bought all had mediocre OEM tires (see 1st para) I'll be leary of any tire that is OEM.
When someone kindly sliced all 4 of the Goodyears one night, we bought Michelins. The difference in snow was amazing. Of course we should have known that the difference was in the tires, but just never considered it! As mentioned befiore, they are on the car today, with 55k miles on them, and look great.
Usually, however, the OEM version of the tire offers the same handling characteristics, while suffering from lower treadwear. So, if a Michelin MXV4 with treadwear rating of 340 is provided with a new car, and people are satisfied with the handling/traction and all season capabilities - maybe its not too bad an idea to go with the 500+ treadwear rated retail version of the same tires!
Newer mazda Proteges offer a dumbed down Dunlop SP Sport 5000 - lower treadwear, but the same phenomenal all season high performance (relative to the staid and basic offerings on competitive vehicles). And that is a very popular low-profile retail tire as well.
When it comes to replacement tires, it's a proven fact that consumers place a high value on treadlife; it's probably the #1 factor for consumers looking to replace a set of tires (OE or not). So tire mfr's give the people what they want by offering plenty of tire models with high treadwear ratings. Doesn't make them a good tire but that's what is being bought so that's what people get. The replacement tire business is much different than the OE tire business; some tire mfr's focus on one or the other depending on the overall picture of their business in any given market.
Then why would an otherwise reliable maker use OEM tires on an AWD (Forester) that not only wear out under 30K (that's to the treadwear marker) but are (rated in multiple sources and consumers) as poor in snow and ice? Both the Yokohama Geolander and Bridgestone Duelers on the 2 Forester lines are too similar in wear and performance in snow and ice.
They were replaced by Michelin Symmetry as a compromise "all-season". Work fine so far.
No explanation from the Subaru people on these forums. Still waiting.
Rolling Resistance
Part of the "specs" that vehicle manufacturers put on tires is a maximum rolling resistance. This gets to fuel economy and ultimately CAFE - which every vehicle manufacturer must meet. The OEM market works a number of different ways depending on which vehicle manufacturer is writing the specs. Some OEM's write specs for extremely low RR numbers. Others pretty much take what is presented to them. But in the end, there is at the very least a competitive pressure to be lower than your competition. The OEM's will benefit every time the RR is lowered as it takes a bit of the burden off engine performance. That is, the less fuel economy you have to get, the easier it is to make an engine powerful and run smoothly.
The common tradeoff for RR is treadwear and traction. Can't go below a certain traction level, so treadwear is what is sacrificed.
The problem comes down to this: If someone complains about treadwear to an OEM, the OEM's think it is a "tire" problem. They don't want to accept responsibility for their spec and what role it is playing in the situation. My experience is that any treadwear complaints in aftermarket tires can be traced to misalignment and/or poor rotation practices.
Another wrinkle to this problem is that some OEM's want a tire that is part of a whole tire line. So an OEM "Falcon ST" that wears poorly will contaminate the entire line, even though the rest of the line is built to aftermarket "specs" and wear great!!
I can also comment that the relationship between a tire supplier and an OEM hasn't changed much in the 30 years I have been in the business. The OEM's pretty much dictate what they want and they usually get it. The only thing that might change this is what happened 2 years ago. The tire manufacturers are starting to stand up to the OEM's and using the banner of "Safety", and the rally cry of "Recall", to add some leverage to the situation.
But I fear, the god of profit will again rise to dominance and little will have changed.
Hope this helps.
Any suggestions?
Hvan1
That said, I also am trying to decide between some of the same tires (Passat wagon.) I'm having a hard time reconciling the difference in price between the Michelins and the Dunlops and Pirellis. If you read the ratings on Tirerack.com given by buyers, the ones who bought the Michelins say they're much better than the Dunlops (or pirellis, or Firestones...) and the ones who bought Dunlops say they're way better than the Michelins, LOL. So much for buyer recommendations. I can't get a clear sense of which is the better tire, and since the Michelins are about twice the cost, I'm relly interested.
Good luck.
Just my .02