Tires, tires, tires

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  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    That's pretty dang small. I think all those types of tires are bias ply.

    Carlisle makes alot of smaller tires. Also do a search for Denman Tires and Del-Nat Tires. IIRC, Denman makes all kinds of tires for strange uses.
  • almaggalmagg Member Posts: 15
    the guy put on a set of roadhuggers gta 205/60R14 89H - $73per at express tire.
    definitely a difference in highway handling - i could relax a little.
    anyone know who makes these? my yahoo! search came up empty.

    though with the other new ones(P195/70R14 from Cooper) there was definitely a difference in comfort on the city street. my first reaction to those was, wow coooomfortable.

    recall the wheelbase on my car is 1" shorter than average and highway driving was a chore, under less than perfect conditions. i'm sure this was a factor 'cause i've driven rentals and could tell the difference.
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Look closely at your tires and give me the DOT code imprinted into the sidewall. I can find out what factory made them and maybe a little more about them.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I did a google groups search and "some guy" says that Kelly-Springfield makes Road Hugger tires. Kelly is a part of Goodyear (as is Dunlop). Discount Tire looks to be the biggest retail outlet for them.

    Usual disclaimers - be fun to see what Bretfraz can come up with using the sidewall codes.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • almaggalmagg Member Posts: 15
    bretfraz, the dot code is PJJT 1802.

    well by accident i just found out about the discrepancy in the speedometer and odometer readings. you'd a thunk the guy would have mentioned it.

    http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

    http://www.dakota-truck.net/TIRECALC/tirecalc.html

    the second gives speedometer and odometer tables that show the discrepancies through different speeds. anyway, are these tires affecting my actual gas mileage?

    and i am not sure i like the way they look. the highway was great, but getting in and out of the car and seeing them they look small for the car, you know like a baby tire. i was definitely moving on the highway and i don't think i need that much performance that the roadhugger is providing.
    the guy started me out with Cooper Life Classic($60 per).

    maybe if i spent the bucks i could get a tire in the original size with EXCEPTIONAL traction that would make enough of a difference.

    any suggestions on makes?
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    Here is the link to a government tire failure test. http://dms3000.dot.gov/docimages/pdf80/164824_web.pdf .To me this test means that under less than ideal conditions, like low tire pressure, the higher speed rated tires are safer.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    It is true there aren't a whole lot of tires in this size. the Avid T4 for allseason. Pirelli has the P7 and P6 that are new and could turn out to be winners. Not a whole lot of info on these yet. They will replace the 6000 series. the P7 is the performance model with assymetrical tread design. the P6 is more standard touring.The web site is www.pirellip7.com If you try to research these tires, look carefully, There is a lot of information on P7 tires on the web. Most of it is refering to the old P7 introduced in 1975.Also a quality 195 will likely perform as well or better than the 205 on the skinny oem wheels.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Thank you for information!
  • hengheng Member Posts: 411
    These tires in 215/60-15 have 30K miles on them and about 40% tread left. They have a definite road rumble to them. A low frequency sound even at 45 mph. I'm ready to trash them soon because of it.

    Even dropped the pressure 2 psi back to GM spec with no improvement. The sound is similar to when you are close to the steel belts. But I wouldn't expect it with so much tread left. My son, who drives it mostly says you can feel it through the steering wheel on the highway.

    Any ideas?
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Steve is right, "PJ" means they are made by Kelly-Springfield at a Goodyear owned plant in Fayetteville, NC. "1802" means they were made probably at the beginning of May this year.

    Tires made there come in the following brands:
    Lee
    Monarch
    Douglas (WalMart house brand)
    Hallmark
    Star
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    #1600 of 1609 an 8" trailer tire?

    "That's pretty dang small. I think all those types of tires are bias ply. Carlisle makes alot of smaller tires. Also do a search for Denman Tires and Del-Nat Tires. IIRC, Denman makes all kinds of tires for strange uses."

    While somewhat small, it is a VERY COMMON size for trailer tires. I think it is more like 4.80X4.00X8 or something like that. It looks like it is an 8 inch wheel. This is for a 1700# boat. I see tires like this all the time on boat trailers, campers, utility trailers, etc. Not at all a "strange" use.

    So, Denman is a good one? Is there a specific model?
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    I checked Google for you and found this:

    http://www.boattrailertires.com/
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    thanks!
  • almaggalmagg Member Posts: 15
    One tire place said the gas mileage was affected going from P195/70R14 to P205/60R14 and the said no. Anyways the highway handling was great with the 205s but I definitely lost city comfort and they just looked too small on the car.
    I told the guy I wanted to go back to the original size and come to find out the Cooper LifeLines he started me with were S rated and I had T on originally. Then I found two makes that were H rated in my size:

    Toyo Proxes TPT 90H 65k miles 400AA
    Cooper Sportmaster GLT 91H 50k miles 360AA

    So he is going to get me the Toyo. They will be in on Tuesday and I will post then after I go for a spin.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    Does any one notice that the after market wheel makers are slowly fazing out 16" wheels. When new cool wheels are introduced, Often they start at 17" and go up.Also, Check out high performance tires. Pirelli highest performance tire the PZerro Nero starts at about 35 series.Like any other business, wheels /tires are market driven. The market is saying wheels should keep getting bigger.For people who like small cars, this is sort of a drag. Hats off to Toyo tires. They still list the weight of their tires.So when you upsize you can keep an eye on the weight.If you wan't to be kind to your small engine give it wheel tire mass to spin.
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    The aftermarket wheel biz is in a big upheaval currently. Lots and lots of super cheap, so-so quality stuff coming from China right now. Its killing most of the smaller players. It's also killing the smaller wheels. Wheel mfr's can make a little more profit on bigger wheels so lots of them are pushing the trend if only to hold onto a little profit. Same with dealers. No one is making any money in aftermarket wheels. Chinese laborers work for pennies a day and the foundry owners and wheel importers are willing to sell whatever Americans want at very low profit to steal business from established mfrs in the US and Europe. It's nasty out there. My contacts in the biz tell me they can get chrome-plated 20's in the low $200's. Yeah, they're crummy quality but when all the rappers and ballers are rollin' on dubs, ya gotta have the hook up or else.

    Such is the wheel business.....
  • boomn29boomn29 Member Posts: 189
    Anybody know anything about these tires. They are now coming standard on a lot of German cars like BMW I was told.
    I'm looking at putting them on my Celica GTS - the tire size is hard to find, and the factory Yokohama's are worn out at 17,600
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    #1615 of 1616 lots of $$$$$ by bretfraz

    "...but when all the rappers and ballers are rollin' on dubs, ya gotta have the hook up or else."

    I have to admit I must be getting old, 'cause you lost me completely on that one!
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Back in 1993, I bought upsize wheels and tires for my 1992 Civic. It took some serious contemplation to go up to something as radical as 14 inch wheels. The only reason I did it was because it was an optional size on the Civics.

    15 inch was out of the question.

    Also, I was not all that happy with the ride the 14 inch ones gave (Bridgestone RE71? I think), so I can only imagine the bigger ones are worse.

    ???
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    IIRC, Fulda is majority owned by Goodyear and is positioned as a value-performance tire there. I know that Sava Tire (a Slovenian tire mfr) is 80% owned by Goodyear and Sava mfrs Fulda tires. That Sava Tire plant makes a wide variety of tires for the European market.

    I've never seen a Fulda tire OE on any car in the US, let alone BMW. I cannot imagine Michelin and Continental letting little ol' Fulda steal OE business from them. Especially Michelin now that they are the tire of choice for the BMW Formula One team.

    I'd put Fulda on the same level as Nitto, Toyo, Sumitomo, Falken...brands like that. Nothing wrong with them for the price but not top-shelf like the big boys.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Doesn't Sumitomo own Dunlop?

    I'd put THAT on the top shelf.
  • boomn29boomn29 Member Posts: 189
    Then they are a good mid-performance tire for the price? They're about $40 less than Goodyear Eagle HP's. I only have a Celica, but value handling.
  • porknbeansporknbeans Member Posts: 465
    Where do you come up with this stuff?

    Don't get me wrong, it is wonderful and very useful stuff and I'm glad that somebody knows it. My question is how do YOU know it? I can only wish to know that much about something. :)
    Porknbeans

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    If you are considering tire brands like the ones I mentioned then Fulda is competitive from what I can gather. If you look at most all the "value-priced" performance tires, they tend to wear rather quickly, there's not a ton of technology in them which keeps prices low, and they're targeted towards the younger sport compact crowd who want a low profile performance tire but don't have the money for the top-of-the line tire. I think they'll be fine.
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    It's funny you say that because I don't think my knowledge of tires is all that extensive. I'm one of those people who knows a little about alot. Some of us long-time TH members recall TIREGUY who was really into tires and knew brands like Michelin in-depth. Eventhough he was just an installer at Sam's Club, he was enthusiastic about what he did and absorbed tons of info which he regurgitated in multi-paragraph sermons to all of us here.

    I'm not like that because I don't work in the wheel and tire industry and never have. But I have friends that do and I get some interesting tidbits which I share with all my friends here. The rest of what I know is a combination of Google, a hot rod computer, a souped-up cable modem giving me 1.5MB downloads, and a desire to find info about a product and industry I find interesting.

    Everybody needs a hobby, I guess. Looks like one of mine is digging up info on tires. Beats collecting barbed wire ;-)
  • porknbeansporknbeans Member Posts: 465
    I remember him. IIRC, he had to stop because he was called away on duty (and even then he tried to sneak on until his wife caught him). I'm a lifer here too, minus the vroom vroom computer. :(
    Porknbeans

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
  • hengheng Member Posts: 411
    He was wealth of info but I think some got weary of his sermons.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Every once in a while I go back and read this classic post by him:

    tireguy Jul 7, 2001 6:11pm

    Luckily we have members like Bretfraz picking up the slack!

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Almost missed this for anonymous02.


    ...rappers and ballers are rollin' on dubs


    Rappers and ballers are, of course, rap stars and professional athletes. If you watch TV shows like "Cribs" on MTV or "The Life" on ESPN, they highlight the posessions and lifestyles of the hyper-rich people in music and sports. Virtually every person on those shows has one or more super expensive vehicle they've customized to some extent.


    The most popular trend is to add custom wheels and tires of 20" or larger. A 20" wheel is a "dub" in hip-hop slang. "Jordans" are 23" wheels (referring to Michael Jordan's number). I forgot what 22" are called.


    There's even a magazine dedicated to this automotive style: http://www.dubmagazine.com/

  • almaggalmagg Member Posts: 15
    Well the guy couldn't get the H rated tires and we put on:
    Toyo 800 Ultra 100k 90T

    Again, after the fact, I get the impression that a higher rated tire means it is more 'stiff' so I lose city comfort. The above tires felt good on the highway and okay on city streets.
    Soooo if I go to a lower rating maybe I can pick up some comfort. I am not worried about tread life.
    I am now thinking:
    Cooper Lifeliner SLE 91T 70k 620AB
    Cooper Sportmaster GLT 91T 50k 360AB
    Goodyear Regatta 2 ?k 540AB

    Everything is so interrelated. I thought of getting an H rated tire:
    Cooper Sportmaster 91H 50k 360AA
    Toyo Proxes TPT 90H 65k 400AA

    Since these have much lower tread life and lower rating, will this increase city comfort? Does the tread life give a better indication of the 'stiffness'? Or the universal rating? And what tells me about highway cornering performance? Anyways I don't think the Toyo is the one.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    You have a very patient, understanding tire guy (or you're related).

    How can you try so many tires?

    If I wasn't sure, I'd just explain to them the type of driving I do, the car I drive, the size it takes, and ask them what the choices are.

    Usually, you get what you pay for. I will have him give me a low, medium, and high priced tire, and usually take the medium.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    That is just ridiculous!

    LOL!
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Thanks. That WAS a good one!
  • tpkentpken Member Posts: 1,108
    that meant all those rockers and ball players were voicing support for the current White House resident - Dubya!

    lol
  • prlady1prlady1 Member Posts: 573
    A journalist writing for a specialty magazine is interested in learning why truck and SUV owners put large (20-, 22- and 23-inch) aftermarket wheels and tires on their vehicles, and where they're having the work done. Responses from Texas are especially welcome.
    If you have anything to offer, please submit your response directly to jfallon@edmunds.com before Friday, July 12. It is helpful if you include the make and model of your vehicle and your daytime phone number.
    Thanks for your consideration!
    Jeannine Fallon
    PR Director
    Edmunds.com
  • almaggalmagg Member Posts: 15
    well i checked the tire pressure and the guy had them at 37psi!
    i went down to 35 and what a difference in both highway handling and city comfort.
    sooo i will keep the toyos and experiment with the pressure.

    yeah the guy, from express tire, was patient and just wanted me to get what i wanted.
    BUT e.g., i had Ts originally and he started me out on Ss and they were terrible on the highway.
    then when i got the wider tire he didn't mention that the odometer and speedometer readings would be off - i found out by accident while surfing and with them the city driving was definitely not good, though the highway handling was great.

    i did explain that the wheelbase was narrower than most(103") and wanted better highway control.

    so kudos to him and luckily i thought of checking the tire pressure, 'cause the ride was a little off.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I was wondering the same thing. Up until recently, I always thought most trucks liked 15, sometimes 14 inch tires for better offroad ability, or 16.5 so they could get the high load rating tires.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    35 still sounds pretty high for passenger car tires.

    Is that what is inside your glovebox/door frame/owner's manual?

    I would expect more like 28-32 range.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I use this on my 7 year old Toyota Corolla on the puny 185-65-14's and the ride is just fine. Tire dealer told me to do this, so...

    The Sandman
  • ody01ody01 Member Posts: 100
    Honda engineer very smart, select Michelin for Odyssey EX. Cheaper Firestone tire on LX.
  • almaggalmagg Member Posts: 15
    the door says 30psi and this is for an S rated tire. i will experiment and go lower.

    i would prefer to have a 'made in usa' tire and am now wondering if i would get the same kind of traction from Cooper Lifeliner SLE or STE T rated.
    the Lifeliner Classics S, he had put on were cooomfortable in the city and considering the condition of the streets nowadays that is something.
    but these tires really grip. i was going 80-85 and still felt in control of the vehicle. they feel good in the city and maybe if i lower the psi they will be better.
  • wenbwenb Member Posts: 45
    Hi I noticed the post about door recommending 30psi. you said you may experiment and go lower. To be on the safe side, you may want to use the recomended tire presure as the minimum preasure. This would be especially true if you drive fast in high temps or with a loaded up vehicle. Keep in mind that S rated tires do not allow allow as large a margin of error in correct preasure as a higher speed rating. Their is a link a few post up regarding tire failure and speed ratings.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,343
    I agree with wenb about the tire pressures and speed ratings. Also, in general, as you go up in speed ratings (higher performance tires), the ride gets firmer (or less comfortable, depending on how you look at it).
  • almaggalmagg Member Posts: 15
    actually i meant i would try lower than than 35psi, and not below 30.
    that is some report and i am definitely okay at 35psi.
    i will go down in steps to 32psi and check out the comfort levels.
    also no one mentioned that it doesn't matter the 30psi on the door is for an S rated tire and i have Ts on now. so i assume it doesn't.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    "the door says 30psi and this is for an S rated tire. i will experiment and go lower."

    Why?

    I'd go with the 30.
  • beachnutbeachnut Member Posts: 291
    I posted this over on the Honda Accord Problems forum, but would appreciate any feedback from the tire expert group over here. I'm concerned about the larger tire rubbing my wheel wells:

    Am I safe to assume that the 4-lug alloys on my '00 SE have a 6" rim width, and that the alloys on the same year EX-V6 had a 6.5" rim width? If this is true, were the EX's rims offset one way or the other, or was the difference split? In other words, was the extra .5" pushed in or out in relation to the wheel well?

    I'm the one who wanted to put the 205/65-15 X-Ones from my van on the Accord. I've moved from the "thinking" phase to the "gonna do it today" phase. I went to tirerack and did side-by-side comparisons of the 195/65 MXV4 (current oem) and the 205/65 X-One. These were their results.

    195/65-15 MXV4+ (oem for 2000 SE-I4)
    Rim Range: 5"-7"
    Meas. Rim Width: 6"
    Sect. Width: 8"
    Overall Diameter: 24.9"

    205/65-15 X-One
    Rim Range: 5"-7.5"
    Meas. Rim Width: 6"
    Sect. Width: 8.2"
    Overall Diameter: 25.3"

    205/65-15 MXV4+ (oem for 2000 EX-V6)
    Rim Range: 5.5"-7.5"
    Meas. Rim Width: 6"
    Sect. Width: 8.5"
    Overall Diameter: 25.5"

    I threw the 205/65 MXV4+ info in there just for FYI. Thanks again for your help!
  • tinnertinner Member Posts: 7
    I have a '99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo and it's in need of tires. I've about decided on the Michelin Cross Terrain SUVs. The size on the Jeep now is 225/75R16 but the owners manual shows 245/70R16 as an option and for some reason the 70 profile tires are cheaper. Now for the question: Will the 70 ride differ to a noticable degree from the 75? Anything else that I should be aware of? These things cost too much to make a dumb mistake! Thanks,
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    IIRC, the 245 tire came with the optional "Up Country" off road suspension. So it should fit just fine on the stock wheels.

    A lower profile tire has a stiffer sidewall which can lead to a firmer ride. But the Cross Terrain is designed as a smooth riding tire so my guess is the two will wash and you won't notice much diff. The wider tire might make steering a smidge stiffer but not objectionable and maybe not even noticeable. You will probably notice a slight drop in mileage due to the larger tire.

    All in all, I think this is a good choice and the beefier Michelin's should look good when mounted.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    If the sidewall height is the same, and the tire is the same brand and style, it should ride pretty much the same, possibly even better, since it is a bigger (wider in this case) tire.

    Lower profile (70 vs. 75) does not mean stiffer if it is the same side height.

    Right?
  • bretfrazbretfraz Member Posts: 2,021
    Right, identical tires ride identically.

    But TINNER is going from a 225/75-16 tire (I'll bet its the Goodyear Wrangler ST) to a 245/70-16 tire. I looked at their specs and the Michelin he wants is 0.3" taller in OD but a full inch wider. Won't be a problem on his Jeep, though.

    Interestingly, he will lose 320 lbs of payload capability going with the Michelin. Must be careful of that.
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